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Cream_Filling posted:I mean "oxcart" bullshit aside, the design compromises in the Mustang do effectively cut costs without significantly compromising quality. They've done a lot with an oxcart design as far as putting power down. An impressive amount. But I've always wondered just how much costs IRS could possibly add to the price. It's been done in the aftermarket for years, and you'd think it would be a whole lot cheaper to do on a mass scale right out of the factory. Seems like it would make the car quite a track beast. But maybe that's just not their market focus.
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Jun 8, 2011 15:37
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Lowclock posted:If enthusiasts matter at all in that situation, I bet more people drag Mustangs than track them, though that might be a "chicken or the egg" situation. I think that's exactly the chicken and egg. They aren't often tracked because they aren't the best choice; people who track cars aren't the market so they don't make them more trackable. Too bad. They seem like they'd be a fun mid-level track flogger for a stock prepared division if they put their power down better. But I'm kind of a Ford guy, so my opinion probably shouldn't count for much on this topic.
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Jun 8, 2011 22:59
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kimbo305 posted:A new stock GT can do comparably with an M3 (as driven by Randy Pobst) on the track. I think that counts as a decent track car. Randy even remarked that the GT was more fun. I did mention that I thought they did some amazing things with putting power down, given what they have to work with. I'm not sure why track performance wouldn't be improved by switching to IRS. Sure, not on all tracks in all situations, but the increased suspension agility and what could be done with it to improve performance even further seems quite appealing. But again, that really depends on the track. I don't think it much matters on the main ring at Pocono, for example. But let's talk about the hairpin and corkscrew at Laguna Seca. Situations like those (banked, but not incredibly so, hanging wheels out into the berm, etc) would seem to make independent rear wheel suspension travel quite advantageous.
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Jun 8, 2011 23:24
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Jork Juggler posted:Motor Trend had a race driver take a new Boss 302 for a few laps at Laguna Seca. It did a 1:40.2. For comparison, a '10 GT500 clocked 1:44.3, a '09 BMW M3 did 1:42.9, and a '10 Audi R8 did 1:40.8. I think Ford has perfected the live axle if their 4-passenger $41k car beats a mid-engined near-supercar around Laguna Seca. Holy crap. I stand quite solidly corrected. I just haven't been keeping up with that kind of thing in the last several years. I though they squeezed all they could squeeze out of the live axle at that point. I guess I was quite wrong.
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Jun 9, 2011 13:55
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KozmoNaut posted:Perhaps I'm just tired, but can you draw this for the code:
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Jun 30, 2011 22:28
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among us?
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KozmoNaut posted:Well, that was my first thought as well, but wouldn't that cause issues with the stick stick effectively being centered between the two center gates? I used to drive an 8 speed (with reverse) international fuel truck that was set up with a dog leg reverse and everything else as you'd expect (on 4 more gates). Yes, no sports car, but you really do get used to it. It's a bitch when you first start driving, but with the right detents and centering spring pressure, anyone who is serious about driving will get proficient quickly.
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Jun 30, 2011 22:35
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Q_res posted:He said dogleg first, so it would be at the bottom. Ohwwww.. Yeah, you're right. But 1st on the bottom is so......unnatural.
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Jun 30, 2011 22:48
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Powershift posted:They should have hi-lo like a 9 speed. How much of your life have you wasted paddling a Fuller 8LL? I'm guessing either none at all, or a ton more than I have. No other options could explain that opinion.
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Jul 1, 2011 04:32
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Powershift posted:All of my driving time was spent on 18 speeds, eaton-fuller or mack, a hi-lo transmission would really seperate the men from the boys. Fair enough. So way more (same idea anyway - I just always drove local runs with triaxles and the like so no 18 speeds for me). I used to prefer my 1971 DM 2-stick slope hood. We called it "slowpoke", and yes, it was positive ground.
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Jul 1, 2011 12:53
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Stabbing Spork posted:Porsche beat them to this years ago Porsche DESIGN. Does that even really count as Porsche?
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Jul 7, 2011 18:27
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travisray2004 posted:Yes. Ewwww....they really did that in 2003, didn't they?
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Jul 7, 2011 20:23
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travisray2004 posted:I don't think people really put that much thought into it. What I think it is is the fact that since the 70s a wagon has been associated with hauling groceries and soccer moms, or grandpa driving around the kids for the most part. I'd be willing to bet that in another 5-10 years SUVs will have the same stigma (universally, that is), just like minivans recently. Minivans are a much newer concept than a station wagon or SUVs. They are hated because they are poo poo to drive and ugly as hell. The stigma is because it's spot-on.
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Jul 19, 2011 17:46
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dissss posted:They drive a hell of a lot better than most SUVs though and people buy them. That is very much personal preference. Minivans drive like appliances. If that's what you like and need more space, trade in your Corolla for one. I'd enjoy a $400 J-body more than a new minivan.
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Jul 20, 2011 01:39
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dissss posted:Also I didn't realise the US market Odyssey was so giant, that isn't one I've driven. The (US market, I suppose if you say there is a difference) Odyssey and whatever the Toyota counterpart is are basically school bus sized. It's like driving a refrigerator box with built in sofas while while wearing oven mitts and clown shoes. They are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:01
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Left Ventricle posted:You can be an enthusiast while driving a minivan. I am. But three kids don't fit in a Miata or <insert performance car here>. You are obviously not the target demographic. No, I'm not. They are horrible, and if you are willing to suspend your driving enthusiasm for that, great. That's my point. I'm not willing to do that. My snotnoses sit in the back of a Rover or a Porsche because I won't drive a minivan. Amazingly enough, everything works out just absolutely fine. I don't actually need a schoolbus/living room combo with a steering wheel. I'd bet most people who drive them don't need that either. I's bet that most of us who are old enough to have children on here grew up being ferried around in a full sized sedan or wagon as the largest. That all worked out too.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:35
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dissss posted:Which have about as much going for them in the way of driving enthusiasm as a modern US style minivan - which is to say considerably less than a more sanely sized one like you might find elsewhere in the world. That statement betrays your lack of knowledge on full sized sedans and wagons. I don't even know where to start with this. I'm partial to Audis. I've driven a Passat wagon that was tuned up really nicely. I'm OK with a lot of Mercs in the full sized sedan category as well. Are you really trying to say that cars like these drive like an oversized minivan?
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Jul 20, 2011 03:56
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Left Ventricle posted:As for Rover, that means you're not American, and don't see why us dumb Yanks need enormous everything. I live in Pennsylvania, so..... I'm not even going to get into the rest of all of the justifications I'm hearing for driving a minivan. If you've (the collective you to include everyone else ranting about this) resigned yourself to wanting that, that's obviously what you're going to get or continue to own one. It makes it no difference to me. But you can't possibly say that you care that much about driving experience, as there are very clearly alternatives that can both perform the same functions and not suck. Because those of you railing against this need to believe you made the right choice, you don't want to hear it. I get that. No one wants to hear they made a multiple-thousand dollar mistake or that they aren't as much of a driving enthusiast as they think the are while posting on a forum full of enthusiasts.
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Jul 20, 2011 17:50
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Muffinpox posted:People can jibber jabber all they want but my fondest memories of driving will always involve hole shotting various performance cars at lights with a dodge caravan, doing vicious peg leg burnouts on the way to victory with that sick amount of torque. I submit to this argument. As long as they are treated this way.
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Jul 21, 2011 04:27
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Interesting news: Chevy to sell diesel Cruze in U.S. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2011-07-22-diesels_n.htm I wonder how this is going to go, and really hope its a popular option (and not something that ends up in the Horrible Mechanical Failures thread).
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Jul 22, 2011 15:52
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MikeyTsi posted:Isn't spontaneous combustion sort of how a diesel works? Actually, no. The combustion is caused by heat from compression. 
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Jul 23, 2011 21:00
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Cakefool posted:Sorry, that may have come across wrong. It's just that a diesel Astra is almost the epitome of a dull car over here. Ever watched Hot Fuzz? The car chase at the end is between 2 Astra Diesels & Simon Pegg described it as the least exciting car chase to film ever. Admittedly they are previous generation. I'm not saying that it's exciting because _I_ want one. I think this is great news because I want to see diesels become more common in the US so that something I might actually want is available in a diesel some day. For example, I'd love to have a diesel Rover. It would fit what I do with it perfectly. But "Americans hate diesel", so Rover didn't even bother importing them with that motor choice.
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Jul 25, 2011 15:32
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This is the closest thread for this kind of thing: That's one expensive car crash: Hapless blonde crashes her £250,000 Bentley into a Merc, Porsche, Ferrari and Aston Martin Sorry for the Daily Mail link.
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Jul 28, 2011 00:36
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Powershift posted:For years they've been selling the explorer to people who should have a car but want a truck. Now they're selling a car to to someone who thinks they're buying a truck. This is probably the most insightful thing posted in this thread in a long time. No thanks to me, of course.
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Jul 28, 2011 22:01
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Throatwarbler posted:who wants a FWD 4 cylinder when you can have a V8? People buying based on price and fuel efficiency?
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Jul 28, 2011 23:23
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2011 Smart Fortwo Electric Drive - Short Take Road Test Guess what ED stands for. Highs and Lows: Highs: Quiet enough at stoplights to actually hear your regret. Lows: Not enough interior room for your pride.
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Aug 6, 2011 15:31
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Skyssx posted:2012 Ranger with a 3.2L I5 common rail turbo diesel and a 6 speed manual to be sold in 180 countries, but not the U.S. Why do we continue to get shafted on diesel availability?
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Oct 26, 2011 15:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the new escape is a lot better for its intended purchase segment (my mom) Really? My mom has one that's a few years old. I'm not sure how the new one would be any more suitable for her. Like many people, she wants something taller than a car (like a truck) that rides reasonably well, gets reasonably decent fuel mileage, is reasonably quiet and that has room to throw groceries and dogs into. The old one fits that criteria just fine, as will the new model. Other than being horribly boring and mediocre, I don't see how it's such an "unmitigated shitpile." It starts and goes when you turn the key. They don't have particularly different quality/reliability stats from other similar things. For it's price range, that's pretty much what I would expect. Most people don't care all that much past that kind of thing. The Escape was not made for the kind of person who would be posting here. It only makes financial sense to update it when it starts looking tired in comparison to other offerings in its class. It's a Toyota Corolla for a slightly different market segment. Motronic fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 17, 2011 |
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Nov 17, 2011 01:23
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Cat Terrist posted:Doesnt handle, poor build quality, ride is hosed up, pathetic performance, well behind in crash safety, good only for idiots that dont have any clue that up the road there is vastly superior cars that do exactly what you quoted as requirements for the same dosh. Yeah...I don't think you seem to get my point here. I know these things (although you are being terribly dramatic about it, especially that there are "vastly superior" choices). People in the market for a car like that do not. It is "good enough", and Ford is printing money with the thing. Money from people like my mom, who are 100% perfectly happy with it. It's building a car to a market and making as much money on it as you can by not wasting it on modifications until you absolutely, positively have to. I have no intention of continuing this..... It just seems we don't agree that there is a market for terrible little faux-SUVs in which the people buying them really don't care about much of this stuff at all. Most cars are not designed or built for driving enthusiasts. Because most people are not driving enthusiasts.
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Nov 17, 2011 03:46
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Cream_Filling posted:Also, just in case you really wanted a Mercedes R-class, but feel that the grille isn't big enough, then Infiniti has a new car for you! 
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Nov 18, 2011 15:46
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Raikiri posted:This is supposed to be the new Ford Mondeo... I doubt it'll look like this but I hope it does. Holy crap....that's a nice looking car. But, as is typical now, the beltline looks too high to have any kinds of decent visibility.
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Dec 2, 2011 04:44
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Pseudonym posted:Come on, admit it, this thing is rad. I'm so jaded. I remember seeing the concept car at the Philly auto show many years ago for what became the Infiniti EX. It looked like a bad rear end terminator style assault vehicle. How was it released? As 'meh" at best. This is not a unique experience for me. So, whatever. Release one in mass production and I'll be impressed.
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Dec 9, 2011 03:15
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dissss posted:I could see them slotting in with cheap, tiny, poorly built city cars as even though the market in the US for them is small no one is competing there now. Arguably, the entire used car market is competing in that slot.
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Dec 11, 2011 03:50
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Raluek posted:I don't get why everyone thinks that wood grain is less appropriate than plastic or carbon fiber on an "executive" style car. I didn't hear anyone saying that. What I did hear was a rightful disdain for cheap wood trim that has been cheaply done. That Chrysler didn't look nearly as bad as some of what I've seen, but did appear pretty much lifeless and boring.
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Jan 3, 2012 03:14
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I want a diesel Cayman.
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Jan 5, 2012 00:03
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leica posted:I'm shocked that someone hasn't hacked the codes already. There's gotta be stuff out there for certain models, all it would take is a tech with a code reader to hack, right? I mean if people can hack i phones, someone should be able to figure it out and create an app for it. No. It's not that easy. Not all PID are available through the standard OBDII pins, nor are all ECU programming paths. There is little standardized about OBDII other than the connector size, the function of a half dozen of the pins, and the ability to interface with an ECU that stores the "generic" mandated DTCs that are mostly emissions related and show IM readiness and MIL status.
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Jan 20, 2012 00:53
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leica posted:I didn't mean to imply that it was easy, however there is clearly a market for it and I'm surprised someone hasn't taken advantage yet. Time will tell, hopefully in the future proprietary code readers/apps will be available ........Either legally or illegally It exists, and has existed for quite some time now. Got a Duramax or SBC? EFI Live Rover? Autologic, Blackbox, and any number of others. VAG? VCDS. While there is a "market" for it, each one is it's own thing for the most part. So your market is incredibly fragmented. And some/many of them require more than a standard OBDII cable/dongle, so now you're talking about additional hardware that has to be designed and built. The market is there, the products exist, and they are expensive.
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Jan 20, 2012 01:50
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Thwomp posted:More new SUVs incoming, new Santa Fe: I'm not saying I like it, but I will say it's a hell of an improvement.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Makes sense for minivans but most sales in the big vehicles segment don't have sliders so that's kind of out as an argument. Why would not having a slider eliminate the (obvious to me) benefits of a higher vehicle? My wife absolutely hated trying to put child seats/children into child seats in a car. That's when she started taking my drat pickup until I bought her an SUV. I swallowed my pride in the name of practicality and we looked at minivans first. They all drove either like poo poo or with no personality at all, so neither of us liked them for that reason alone, which was enough. So we went SUV, and it all works out. If I were to do it again (meaning buying new), it would probably be a CUV, but they weren't available at the time so we ended up with an Explorer. Fo3 posted:True, the only good reason I have heard for SUVs as a family car is the argument it's easier to load a kid into a child seat when you are not bending over doing it. A million times this. And if you don't like minivans, SUV/CUVs (when not stupidly designed to be too cramped inside) fit the bill quite well. Especially for primarily around town cruising/grocery getting where the poor mileage doesn't dig into your pocket so much. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:As an AI poster, you're already not anywhere near the average customer. So yeah, this is true of everyone in the discussion therefore making most of my and other people's observations much more informed, calculated and logical than the market as a whole.
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Apr 18, 2012 16:10
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Faerunner posted:I think the Murano looks a lot nicer than that Generic Boringvertible This is a boringvertible:  And it still drives better than that Murano. Even if you don't think the Audi looks better (totally subjective, so I get it), all it takes is driving one to understand WHY it is better. In fact, simply sitting one without driving it would make the difference very evident unless you're really into rubbermaid and ikea quality.
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Apr 19, 2012 02:36
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Mr.Peabody posted:Does that LCD screen flip up or is it permanently affixed floating above the dash line? It flips up when you start the car, and goes back down when you shut it off. I don't get it. They started this in the A8. Either find a place for it or don't, but why move it all the time?
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Apr 20, 2012 15:54
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