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Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Beowulf posted:

fuschia?

That designer lived his live one drop of semen at a time.

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Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

KozmoNaut posted:

Hope and pray that you'll get this thing:



What's that above the side indicator? Why, I believe that's a green four-leaf clover

The MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde is set to be released any day now and features a new 1.4L Multiair turbo engine with 170HP@5500 and 250NM@2500, active suspension and plenty of Alfa magic. According to the journalists who've driven it, it has absolutely razor sharp handling and is amazingly chuckable and the engine is nothing short of a masterpiece. They say it pulls like a 2.5-3.0L NA V6.

It also does 40MPG somehow.

Rumors have been circulating about Alfa making a 240HP GTA version as well, which wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Man. I love everything about that car - the size, the specs, etc. But as amazing as all of that is and believe me I LOVE cars like that... I don't think I could ever grow to love that gaping vagina front end. I know, blasphemy and all that but... it just looks so out of place for me.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Only BMW enthusiasts care about RWD BMWs and there's far less enthusiasts than you might think. Let's face it, a large majority of people who own and drive BMWs daily drive it to and from work for the image and luxury alone. If anything the cars being RWD probably annoy this demographic in winter conditions. Seems like AWD's becoming the trendy mode de jour for that crowd these days anyway so I'm not surprised that BMW's going to put out a FWD vehicle for those that have issues with the winter driving or simply don't give a gently caress.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

D. melanogaster posted:

This won't be available in America, much like the last Focus RS. So no, Ford does not "get it."

It doesn't have four doors so you can't fit the whole family into it but even if you could forgive it for not having four doors then it's more of an issue because the average 600 pound American can't fit into it because lol all americans are fat lol and his 3 400 pound children can't squeeze into the rear seats because there's a seat into the way because lol all american children are fat too lol.

I honestly hate each and every American family man for the lack of hatches like this in America because every single one of them, while car shopping, has to open their big mouth and blurt out 'But I can't fit my family in it!' every time they look at a two door car prompting that automaker to get rid of it with the next revision. Hell even Hyundai's getting rid of the 3DR hatch Accent with the next body design because of those assholes and a 3DR hatch version of that car is practically a tradition. Hate. Rage.

It's hard being a hatch lover in North America, I need to move to Europe.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

orange lime posted:

Consumer reports is excellent if you are a middle-aged person with kids who wants nothing more and nothing less than the absolute least eventful driving appliance you can buy.

I remember they rated the Elise terrible in suspension quality, and they knocked marks off the Insight for having limited interior space. Their system just literally does not accommodate cars that aren't Toyota Camry or equivalent. I wouldn't be surprised to see them knocking down the rating on something like a Rolls-Royce because it didn't come with child seat anchors.

Consumer reports really is terrible. Any car without ABS -and- ESC automatically on their base model loses a shitload of points from the get-go and very nearly gets put on their do not recommend car list. Never mind that research reports and statistics back up the facts that accidents aren't actually reduced by having ABS and ESC because the drivers that have them tend to drive worse thinking that those systems will save them... and they don't.

Plus they are so incredibly Honda-biased it's not even funny. They might as well call themselves the Honda Report. The last ratings I saw them do for subcompacts had the fully loaded Honda Fit rank first, and then the base model Honda Fit come in second. Did they take the fully loaded versions of every other car into consideration? Nope. Just the Fit. But then they compared every other manufacturer's base model car to the fully loaded Fit and not the base model one. What a poo poo show that review was.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

This is hardly an argument against CR. CR can't do anything about your reckless driving, all they can do is recommend the safest car for you. By all accounts ESC does significantly assist you in low control situations.


The base model Fit doesn't have ESC, while the loaded one does, right? Can you get even get ESC at all in the Aveo or any other competitors? Maybe that's why. The Fit's only competitors are the Aveo, Versa, Accent/Rio and Yaris anyway, hardly a very competetive field. Ford, Chrysler and VW don't even sell subcompacts here until the Fiesta makes it over.

In any case, the Honda Fit is something like the best selling subcompact car in virtually any significant market for subcompact cars, so maybe they really are that good.

Autoblog had a nice interview with John Linkov in their last(before the current one) podcast, where they discuss at length their testing methodology, I found it very interesting. Bascially it confirms what I've always thought - their tests and hard data are great. Their subject rankings and conclusions are as good as...anyone else's subjective rankings and conclusions.

Anyone who can't see a problem with CR comparing a fully loaded car to every one else's base models probably deserves to be suckered in by CR's brib--err reviews. Either review all the base models together fairly or review all the fully loaded fairly but don't go tossing in only one brand's fully loaded and start ragging on base model Aveos/Accents/etc for not having the features that the fully loaded one had - especially when the monetary difference between those cars is easily nearly 10k when it's all said and done.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Gonna have to go with a general thumbs down on Hyundai's unified front end look on their new models. Just don't like it. Even on the Genesis coupe, the only visual flaw I have with the car is the front end of it. I think it's how long they're making the front seem by stretching out the headlights and the bizarre shape they keep making the fog lights in the bumpers. It'll be interesting to see how ugly they'll make the rumoured Velostar/new Tiburon to match the rest of the designs though

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Land Rover's been sitting at the bottom of JD Power's reliability ratings for years and by bottom I mean in the negative HUNDREDS. You don't buy a Land Rover for anything but dick waving in the SUV owner's worlds, except the joke's really on you and you just haven't accepted it yet.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

travisray2004 posted:

I honestly think that Hyundai has taken over the roles that Honda and Toyota have played in the past; value-packed vehicles that compete with vehicles thousands of dollars more expensive.

Bingo. Honda's looking at the Sonata/Elantra, seeing the awards they're getting, seeing the value they hold, looking at the warranty which they don't compete with, seeing Hyundai sitting above them in JD Power's quality and reliability ratings, and seeing the dollar sign next to ALL of that and are making GBS threads themselves. Plus it's no secret that people have found their styling cues for the past decade in both Acura and Honda to be across the board boring and Honda's gotta be worried. I've said for years that Honda's been living off their reputation and it's finally caught up to them. They're gonna have to really pick up their socks and start learning how to compete if they don't want to be left behind.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

el topo posted:

Given that he could have created a Genesis premium brand and decided not to do so, I would disagree... calling the Equus a Hyundai just creates a brand image problem that could have been done away with very easily.

From what I've heard inside that company, admittedly down the chain, is that they were seriously going to and then the recession happened so they delayed it a few years to see how the market would go. Seeing that they're starting to SHIP Genesis sedans and some coupes to North America with the Genesis badging instead of the Hyundai badging/logos, I'd say it's a good chance of happening.

And for what it's worth, I've also heard they're working on getting a luxury SUV together to start the brand with four core vehicles - the coupe, the sedan, the Equus, and an SUV for those who want them.

But whether it happens, well, we'll see. I think it will though.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

2ndclasscitizen posted:

I really doubt creating a separate brand would really help Hyundai. I think these days if they did, pretty much everyone's going to know that they're just Hyundai's with a different badge. But if the Equus is a success, it could help continue moving the Hyundai brand away from being cheap, nasty shitboxes.

You underestimate how many people don't have a loving clue that Lexus = Toyota, Infiniti = Nissan, Acura = Honda. If the Genesis brand just popped up out of the blue, I think you'd be surprised how many people wouldn't know that it was actually Hyundai and even if they did, so long as it didn't have the H on it, they might not care anyway. People don't hate the cars, they hate the image even if it's unjustified. A new image gives them a blank slate and a whole slew of customers.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

PBCrunch posted:

Why should Hyundai stop at picking the car up for service. They could have a really informative website with a form to have a salesman bring the car out to the prospective buyer for a test drive.

If you're not joking, dealerships don't really like doing that for obvious reasons - mileage. Demo cars can be hard to sell without discounting them a bunch. Most people who buy a new car want a drat new car, not one that 100 people have driven the snot out of and put 500 miles on it already.

Also the JD Power intial study for quality and reliability for 2010 models is finally out. Usual companies in the top ten, though Acura's a surprise at number 2 making a massive jump up the chain from last year's 15th. Hyundai ranks at 7th, Kia at like 27th despite sharing a lot of platforms with Hyundai. Last year Kia was tied with BMW for 13th IIRC, so that's a bit of a blow to them. Toyota took a massive hit, dropping from 7th to 22nd. And of course, Land Rover, as usual, is dead last.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

The only thing that makes me wonder about that picture is how much extra they had to pay that guy to smile while driving that car.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

I look at the picture for that car and the first thing I notice is for all that money and all that styling, you still don't get xenon projectors in your headlights. Guess they had to save money somewhere with those rims.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

LED headlights bro.



RAD. Though I don't particularly trust LEDs just yet for my headlights. It's early tech even at this stage though so I'm sure it'll improve.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

MrChips posted:

The LEDs themselves rarely fail; rather, the soldering that bonds them to their substrate does. It doesn't look like the automakers have found a better way of doing this either - I've seen more than a few new Audis with one or more LEDs out already.

This. It's not the bulbs I'm worried about, but talk about a technology prone to premature failure and on a safety device like headlights, you'd be hosed if they failed or only half worked and you actually had somewhere to go at night. Projectors will be around for a while longer yet, I think.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

Toyota has been using them since 2007, you can even get them on a Prius now. Escalade has had them since 2009. Maybe the Audi ones are broken because they are Audis.

I've had a few acquaintances change their cars over to LED based systems, though only one dude did his headlights too, and all of them have had to replace multiple lights within 3-6 months of usage despite claims of like 15k hours of use before replacement. They're just incredibly unpredictable systems IMO. I see OEM tail lights, like those priuses, and aftermarket taillights like those crappy truck ones you can buy driving around with a couple burnt out too. It looks lovely and on the whole just seems untrustworthy to me. Maybe it's just Murphy's Law kicking in but it does seem to be a common enough failure to make me second guess it.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

The wheels aren't that bad, but for the market they cater to it will be a very, very frosty day in hell before they hit production.

Besides, I like how the left profile is lowered and the right isn't.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Am I the only one that sees an awful lot of four door RX-8 in that Kodo concept? That was the first thing that popped out at me when I looked at it. It's a stretch but there's just something about it...

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute here:

"The Dodge Viper hot-rod will be back in 2012. The concept vehicle displayed at the meeting had been painted more than 25 times with a candy-apple red to give it a sleek appeal. The vehicle is more upscale and has moved away from its race car image."

Oh my god. As an autobody painter, my mind is blown with the poor writing.

- Painted more than 25 times to get the color perfect? If so, why bother even mentioning it? Color experimentation is nothing new, though I question why they had to paint an entire vehicle instead of a metal loving panel.
- Painted with over 25 coats of candy coat? If so, how is the paint NOT falling off in huge chunks?

Also, upscale exactly how? The Viper's a loving luxury car now? The Viper's always been about raw uncompromising power and handling. You will be uncomfortable and your rear end will be sore, but you'll have a giant poo poo eating grin on your face anyway.The kind of people that would buy a Viper for daily driving luxury and power for prestige are probably more likely to buy an SLK for the MB brand and image it gives over any Dodge product, much less the Viper. Once you reach the 6 digit car pricing segment, I don't really think it matters if you throw an extra 100k onto the price tag so saying that it's cheaper is still not much of an argument either.

I'm pretty confused about the reasoning behind these things...

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

Are you just trolling? Do you even know what a Viper is?


Which one of the cars you mentioned is a "6 digit car"? Do you realize 100k is 6 digits? What the christ are you babbling about?

In Canada, a brand new Viper and the SLK are both six digit cars. What their prices are in the US or whatever I don't know and don't really care because honestly, gently caress US car pricing.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

Are you confusing SLK with SL? The most expensive SLK, the SLK 55 AMG, starts at $85k. A viper is just a smidge below $100k, but you're suggesting there's no difference between $100k and $200k? Maybe some people just have $100k and want the fastest car they can buy?

Starts at. Add the performance package, because you have to to make it anywhere near comparable, and you're at 94k CND. That's not including freight and taxes but I suppose that puts it at 'just a smidge below 100k' too? And no matter what we argue, the minority of people that only have 100k to spend and want the fastest car they can buy aren't the market the Viper's trying to cater to right now by making it more luxurious. Obviously, because that market didn't make them much money before. That means they're trying to compete for the upper class and image whores and I honestly doubt they're going to convince those kinds of people to buy a Dodge for the same reasons why the upper scale business class wouldn't ever be caught dead in a Genesis Equus no matter how awesome a car it is or how much value it is - to them it's still a Hyundai.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Rhyno posted:

Three doors? Didn't Saturn pull this trick already?

I like obvious three doors like this. It screams, 'Get in on the passenger side like you're supposed to, you stupid fucks!' to everyone who decides to bum a ride off me. No, you are not getting in on the driver's side. First, the seat doesn't really allow for it like the passenger side does and second, I'm not readjusting my seat just for you.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

That Ferrari is the three door hatch of my dreams. I know what I'M buying when I win the lottery.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Way2slow posted:

Spend an extra $700-800, and you're looking at 290hp/340ft-lbs, with a factory warranty.

The problem I have with those numbers? It's still a FWD drive car at the end of the day and you'll still get embarrassed vs anything else with equivalent power if you're doing anything other than a straight line. But at least you can reassure yourself with the money you spent vs everyone else, I guess.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

Nothing you've posted here is even remotely true.

Actually, it is. My best friend had a Cobolt SS with the Stage 3 kit. He traded it in 6 months later because it was underwhelming, not nearly as fun as, or in real true comparison to AWD or RWD cars. The only reason he could console himself over owning one at the end of the day was that it was cheaper than those other cars, but that's evident in the interior quality and the materials it's built with.

Hey, I'm not hating on the car but ya gotta face the facts - it's still a FWD car and that by itself has innate weaknesses. If it still interests you anyway, that it can be had for a pretty reasonable price is a pretty good deal though. You can sink all the money you want into any car and make it go fast, but that doesn't mean the drawbacks aren't still there.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Scabrous Teat posted:

Looks like Kia's really out to ape every current VAG car.

Kia stole a prominent designer from VAG, IIRC, to be their head honcho. So that stands to reason. However, his designs are mostly loving fantastic so it seems like it wasn't a bad idea?

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Dave Inc. posted:

On the topic of KIA, where do they stand in terms of build quality / reliability? They on par with Hyundai now or are they lagging a few years behind?

Edit: I just used Hyundai as an example of build quality and reliability.

Hyundai's been a consistent Top 10 ranker in terms of quality and reliability in the market since the mid 2000s with '09 seeing them place 4th according to JD Power's rankings. Kia's been improving fairly steadily sitting in the Top 25, usually the the early 20s to late teens IIRC. Hyundai has been funneling a lot of money into Kia to improve their lineup and brand (like stealing better people from other car companies), which is why they didn't buy a single company back in the recession when everyone was going bankrupt but Hyundai was actually still profitable. Oh, and just 'cuz Kia's owned by Hyundai doesn't make them the same company. They have separate management structures, compete against each other, etc like every other separate brand that's owned by the same company. It's just that lately they've started more platform and technology sharing and such.

Plus they both benefit a lot more now that they aren't sourcing so much technology from Mitsubishi/Chrysler. Ever since they started using their own engines, that's pretty much when Hyundai quality started shooting up.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

The only way I'd accept an automated driving system is if it were highway based. Local driving absolutely should not be automated.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Viggen posted:

I'd rather run into something at 25, than, oh, a deer at 65.

I imagine any automated system that would get implemented would have sensors and systems put into place for that that have a far higher reaction time for stopping than a human ever would. Also remember that it is better to hit deer at high speeds than it is to swerve and miss them. The car is designed to take a hit but if you go flying into a ditch/tree/rollover, etc the odds are much higher that you're a lot deader then.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

I must be missing something because I don't see the point in releasing a 1.4L turbo that puts out pretty much the same numbers as the 1.8L.

Seems far too much like a marketing gimmick to appeal to the average American to me. ~~~LOOK FUEL EFFICIENCY WITH A 1.4L ENGINE BUT THAT'S NOT ALL!!! IT HAS A TUUUUUURBOOOOOO!!! VROOOOM!~~~

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

The 1.4l gets somewhat better fuel economy and has more torque.

The real world numbers I think will be vastly different from the numbers they release as they always are, plus I think the people that would be buying this would be trying to kick in the boost in pretty much all the time which means I think it'll be even worse than that still. So really, it's just for the bit extra torque so I don't see the point.

Plus it kind of goes against what subcompacts are - cheap, reliable econoboxes that are cheap to repair when things do break. A turbo and all related accessories just adds to the repair costs. This seems really backwards to me.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Throatwarbler posted:

This "real world" stuff is seriously one of the dumbest things I read on car forums. Do people think the EPA tests are done on the Spectral plane? or Dimension X? The EPA mileage test is conducted by real live people on planet earth, they are "real world". They are also repeatable, verifiable, conducted to certain standards under carefully controlled conditions (elevation, air temp, fuel) and are thus valid data for comparison. So yeah, unless you have a climate controlled elevation adjusted dyno room in your garage, you may not get the same figures as the rating. The fuel economy you achieve falls under the category "anecdotal bullshit".

Do you also ignore doctors and modern medicine because their efficacy studies are done in labs and not the "real world"?

Late to respond to this, but this post seems really naive to me. Do you really think they don't take the absolutely BEST numbers out of all the tests they do and then slap them on the paper? We're talking driving a full tank on a completely flat surface on a day with no wind doing nothing but driving at 60kmph and shifting at 2k RPM and every other cheat they can do to maximize the numbers.

See, I live in this real world and in my real world of the Canadian prairies, where it's ridiculously windy all the time and the highway speed limits are 110, but traffic speed is actually 130 - where if you're doing 110, you're the rear end in a top hat causing accidents because everyone else on the road is swerving around you. It also gets to be -45C in the winter on a regular basis where you're warming up your car for 5 minutes every morning and your gas car sounds like a diesel engine.

So no, I don't believe the numbers they post are always realistic. Read any subcompact forum and half the threads are people upset that they can't reproduce the stupid 48MPG or whatever the hell they slap on that sheet of paper because the conditions they got that number were absolutely optimal. If you want to get suckered in by the marketing though, be my guest.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

sanchez posted:

In the US a new C class or 3 series can be leased for under $350/mo, they're not exactly unobtainable or uncommon.

It's nice to fly below the radar sometimes as well, the average pedestrian is an idiot (who was probably cut off on their way to work by a leased C class and would be happy to key one)

That's pretty hosed. Here in Canada, you get a base model C series for about 1000/mo with 0 down leased. Literally pissing money away.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

D C posted:

Leases in Canada are probably the worst thing I've ever seen, Financing would be the same cost, and you keep the car and can sell it whenever you want.

I dont know what is different then in the States, but it is huge.

Yeah, the only reason you lease here in Canada is if you're one of those guys who gets bored with cars and trades them in after two years.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Until I bothered to look at what Americans paid for leases I couldn't understand why anyone would possibly enter into one. Our cars also don't depreciate as fast, though.

My buddy leases cars but only because he has massive car ADD. He gets bored of them really fast and has accepted that he will always have a car payment as a result of this; one that would get worse and worse if he bought cars. That's why he leases instead even here in Canada. Sure, he's pissing 800-1k a month away, but he also doesn't have snowballing debt from trade-ins and poo poo either so that payment stays more or less constant depending on what he drives. Some view it as waste but he views it as another bill to pay like an internet bill or a water bill.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Guinness posted:

Replace the Kia badge with an Audi badge and no one would know the difference.

You realize that Kia stole away one of Audi's key designers and made him their chief of design or something a few years ago right? That's why all of their new cars seem to take inspiration from Audi. Win win for everyone, he gets to be more creative than Audi would ever let him be and Kia actually gets some hot looking vehicles.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Lt Moose posted:

Speaking of Hyundai, I spotted a Equus last week. It looked nice - I forgot Hyundai was making a luxury car, so as I got closer I was trying to figure out what make of car it was, then I saw the badge and remembered. It still had the dealer plates on it. Have these cars been out for a while or only just recently?

Out for a while. I see them from time to time on my commute. I see a lot of Genesis sedans too, especially in the higher class neighbourhoods where you also see a lot of MB and BMW type vehicles. I'm glad to see that the Hyundai badge is gaining more respect in that manner - they deserve it, honestly.

Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

Billy Zane posted:

I heard somewhere that the proliferation of LED lighting is due to some recent EU regulations where daytime running lights are mandatory on all new cars.

Yes, this. LED lighting is cheap, draws virtually no power and extends the life on xenon bulbs/ballasts for those cars that have them seeing how they're 100+ or more for a pair of replacement bulbs and way more for the ballasts so they're perfect as DRL systems.

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Naky
May 30, 2001

Resident Crackhead

DRLs are handy for all those jackasses that drive black vehicles and like to forget to turn on the lights at night and get all pissy when you flash them and try to let them know that their lights aren't on while they do their best to ignore you and pretend you're not trying to tell them something. Yeah, those jackasses. At least there's SOME warning for oncoming traffic that way.

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