kimbo305 posted:

It looks a beaut, but I wonder how price/performance will work out against its competitors. The VXR didn't fare that well against an S4 on that 5th Gear review. And I'm honestly wondering how many people are aching to buy a manual tranny Buick right now. 2000? 5000?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

The Cobalt SS-T was a legitimately awesome handling hot economy car that was probably the best performance per dollar in nearly any situation. People who say "oh cobalt lol" are ignorant.

Cream_Filling posted:

Yeah, I mean it's not a big deal but personally I dislike it for personal reasons.

The first is the key issue. If the system still uses a key, then you have to insert the key and turn anyway and then press the button. How unnecessary.
Either that or you have to switch to a keyless system, which I've used before in its Lexus/Toyota incarnations but I'm not a huge fan of it and I worry a little about possible security issues as well. I just feel like it's a needless complication. Hell, Nissan's old pushbutton start/keyless system on the Rogue or whatever actually had a little plastic switch located where the ignition lock cylinder was that you had to turn anyway. I bet adding that keyless system costs at least a couple hundred bucks to do properly, and majorly jacks up key replacement costs. I'd rather they spend that money on something like suspension components or better interior materials.

Secondly, it's an issue of interface design, or more specifically how the effects of interface design are amplified unpleasantly. The start button itself is usually a software button, which inevitably means that the interface programming will be weird. I prefer a hard mechanical connection to as many controls as possible, first of all. Press button to start, that I can understand. But what if the engine fails to turn over? How is recranking, for instance, handled? What if I want to only do accessory power? Do I press, release, press again while tapping the brake pedal? Hold for three seconds until the light turns orange? I know they'll have a solution, but the problem is that it will be different for every manufacturer (at least for a while) and it's just pointlessly frustrating compared to "insert key, turn to desired setting".

And the big one, of course, is shutting off the car. One reason you had the runaway Lexus thing is that to turn off the engine, you can't just press the button but you have to actually hold it for like three seconds. It's just another stupid interface thing that you have to learn and remember and hope you can remember under high stress. And since we're all used to buttons that do only one thing and react more or less instantly, having one software button with variable behavior to manipulate multiple controls is kind of lame. Especially when you have to build in safeguards because it's easy to accidentally hit the huge button in the dash versus simultaneously pressing and turning a key tucked into the steering column.

Why bother? The current key system is perfectly satisfactory unless you are moving entirely to keyless start. It's just another pointless feature aping race cars/exotics but without any real benefits much of the time. The key ignition used in most modern cars is a relatively elegant solution to the interface problem, and I'm ok with it (SAAB's critique that they smash kneecaps notwithstanding).

Dunno, if I've missed something, i'd be happy to change my opinion, too.

Cream_Filling posted:

I was talking about push-button start, not keyless entry. Pushbutton start as a feature without keyless entry has no real reason to exist except to ape race cars since you have to have somewhere to insert the key anyway. With keyless entry, you can justify it since there has to be a way to start your car.

There are already safeguards in most button start systems, which is why you have to hold the button down for x seconds before it turns the car off instead of having it turn the car of instantly when pressed. The safety system's in there primarily for liability reasons.

Quick, how do you turn the engine off and then switch to accessory power? I bet it's a different sequence for your car than on another maker's car. It's a minor, trivial annoyance but an annoyance nonetheless.

In regards to the separate issue of keyless entry systems, I would rather have the money it takes to have a secure keyless entry system and smart key fobs spent on something else since I don't see a real problem with mechanical keys on commuter cars.

kimbo305 posted:

Do you really think that'd be the end of it? Also from the article:
"Francillon says that the materials ... for the wireless attack cost between $100 and $1,000, depending on the electronic components used."
Obviously the cable version was the fastest thing they could rig up to prove it could work.

Corvettefisher posted:

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/car-news/2011-new-york-auto-show-2012-nissan-versa-sedan?artid=130579


The 2012 versa looks amazing for 11K, I just hope they have one with stick.

KakerMix posted:

What the hell is up with Toyota's marketing department? First they have the kids-making-fun-of-other-kids commercials with that Highlander and now selling Corollas with anime?

BoostCreep posted:

kimbo305 posted:

Agreed. Their recent 130min firesale ad for the 2010 Charger SRT-8 was incredible.

Naky posted:

Kia stole a prominent designer from VAG, IIRC, to be their head honcho. So that stands to reason. However, his designs are mostly loving fantastic so it seems like it wasn't a bad idea?

Throatwarbler posted:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110524/CARNEWS/110529913

BMW 5 GT sells like syphilis.

kimbo305 posted:

They were obviously talking about dimensions, and thus price, which apparently is a big deal to the mythical boy racer demographic they're chasing.

Boiled Water posted:

170 bhp in a car the size of a tin isn't good enough for you?