|
Epi Lepi posted:You can encourage her to build her Summoner towards healing. If she takes the medicine skill either her or the eidolon can make the medicine check and if she takes Battle Medicine they each count as separate sources of the ability. Battle Medicine says if you use it on someone you cannot make another Battle Medicine check on them for a certain amount of time that I forget (hour? day?). So instead of just one shot at it, the Summoner can get two. Combine that with an Eidolon that gives access to Heal/Soothe and you've got a decent healer. This is very useful advice for me myself and for me to share as a first time PF2 DM, thank you! None of the players have experience with the system either (though all have played PF1) so I'm keeping track of Helpful Tips to give them.
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Free archetype is a ton of fun do it up. It's not really broken, just be aware some archetypes don't have feats at certain levels so some players may get feats at levels where others don't depending on what they pick and you need to think about if that's okay or if you'll let them branch out into other archetypes early as most if not all say you can't take another dedication feat until you take a certain amount of feats in the current one. Personally i've removed all the restrictions with archetype feats and haven't really encountered any problems with it (and nobody has even wanted to do something dumb like taking 20 archetypes which is a shame)
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Personally i've removed all the restrictions with archetype feats and haven't really encountered any problems with it (and nobody has even wanted to do something dumb like taking 20 archetypes which is a shame) Same tbh, but I wanted to bring it up because it came up in the Age of Ashes game I'm running. The druid took the Herbalist dedication which has no Level 4 feat so I let him take another dedication for that level.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 20:48
|
|
|
Acrobat is a nice archetype for a Swashbuckler of nearly any style, because Tumble Through is a universal source of panache for all Swashbucklers and Acrobat juices up the Tumble Through action. Braggart Swashbuckler is still OP though, because there are so many drat ways to get Demoralize attempts as a reaction or even free action, most of which are only skill feats.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Same tbh, but I wanted to bring it up because it came up in the Age of Ashes game I'm running. The druid took the Herbalist dedication which has no Level 4 feat so I let him take another dedication for that level. What? Herbalist has 2 feats at 2, 1 at 4, and 2 at 6. You'd have to be level 12 before you ran out of feats to take.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:What? Herbalist has 2 feats at 2, 1 at 4, and 2 at 6. You'd have to be level 12 before you ran out of feats to take. Fresh Ingredients is a skill feat, not a class feat. Some of the archetypes include those.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
Vanguard Warden posted:Fresh Ingredients is a skill feat, not a class feat. Some of the archetypes include those. Ok, sure, but that's at 2 and they have Poultice Preparation at 4, so I'm still confused.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
My bad, we have a house-rule for that game that made Poultice Preparation irrelevant. There are definitely archetypes that skip levels I know someone else in that game had the same issue but we're on hiatus while my buddy is running Abomination Vaults so it's not fresh in my head.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2021 23:32
|
|
|
So, how do I make batman in Pf2e?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 00:43
|
|
|
Xalidur posted:1a. Any other common houserules I should adopt or avoid? I'm keen on avoiding Taxes. If you mean like feat taxes or something along the lines of what were in 3e/4e/PF1e, it's important to note that many things that people "assume" are basic functions or things you should be able to do as a class, or with a skill, or something, are locked behind feats in Pathfinder 2e. This can rub people the wrong way when they play 2e for the first time - the idea isn't that there are taxes everyone's gonna take or feats that are must haves to compete at an equal level, but instead that everyone needs to specialize and pick what they really want to be doing - they can't be great at everything their class can do, they have to pick a subset of that to be their schtick. If you let people replace choices freely at the beginning while they figure out what interests them and use free archetypes, they will make great characters that are fun to play and the system supports that quite well. But, as an example, if someone goes "why do I have to take attack of opportunity as a feat, everyone should be able to do an attack of opportunity by default" that's NOT a feat tax, in Pathfinder 2e that's a specific ability for some characters and gaining that ability isn't something everyone has nor is it something that doesn't come without a cost (because it's competitive against other options instead of a tax that everyone takes). Covok posted:So, how do I make batman in Pf2e? Vigilante is an archetype in the APG, just pick a base class you like like investigator or the gadgeteer one and slap that on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
Covok posted:So, how do I make batman in Pf2e? Investigator or Inventor with Vigilante dedication
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
Covok posted:So, how do I make batman in Pf2e? Absolutely an Investigator base, they're skill-monkeys that are all about planning and detective work and once per round you get to know the result of your next attack roll against a given target before choosing whether to attack them or not. The Alchemical Sciences methodology lets you whip up prepared tool/elixir bullshit on the fly a la a utility belt, but Interrogation is arguably a good fit too for pulling off a "Swear to me!" maneuver. Depending on how your GM rules the vague wording of the combat grapnel, you could model that a little more directly. You could always just take the Alchemist multiclass archetype for whipping up whatever you want for free, just with a lowered level cap instead of a tool/elixir restriction. Class feats like That's Odd and Red Herring are really fun and further lean into the whole detective thing. Definitely pick up the Vigilante archetype though, in addition to the disguise/identity stuff Startling Appearance + Frightening Appearance is literally swooping out of nowhere on people. Investigators are pretty stuck into the support role though, so don't expect crazy DPR or anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 01:26
|
|
|
I am a little baffled how things are limited by 1 minute so often. I guess that is an entire encounter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
How about another build question: How would you build a Final Fantasy style Dark Knight? So greatsword, and magic abilities that involve lifestealing and harming themselves to power up their attacks? They're usually portrayed in heavy looking armor but their defense is actually lower than you'd think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:03
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:How about another build question: Fighter base, probably, and wait for Kineticist to multiclass in. Alternately, Antipaladin just works out of the gate but has the restriction of being Antipaladin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Fighter base, probably, and wait for Kineticist to multiclass in. Can a martial cleric actually work? There's a cleric feat to gain hp from using harm spells and that's the route I was initially looking at but didn't do any serious building.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:Can a martial cleric actually work? There's a cleric feat to gain hp from using harm spells and that's the route I was initially looking at but didn't do any serious building. Dump wis, forget about offensively casting apart from channeled smites and it should be fine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:34
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:How about another build question: Season 2 of Critical Role had a player kill themselves playing a class like that, heh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:34
|
|
|
Megazver posted:Season 2 of Critical Role had a player kill themselves playing a class like that, heh. Yep, Blood Hunter is definitely how I'd build a Dark Knight in 5e.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 18:45
|
|
|
In PF 1e I'd absolutely say a Magus using Spellstrike with stuff like Vampiric Touch or other necromancy spells, likely with archetypes to enable using heavy armor earlier and a big-rear end sword, but as soon as I saw the hosed up spell progression in the PF 2e's Magus I stopped reading it so I don't know how it works. Also, people keep saying it's awful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 19:51
|
|
|
Vanguard Warden posted:In PF 1e I'd absolutely say a Magus using Spellstrike with stuff like Vampiric Touch or other necromancy spells, likely with archetypes to enable using heavy armor earlier and a big-rear end sword, but as soon as I saw the hosed up spell progression in the PF 2e's Magus I stopped reading it so I don't know how it works. Also, people keep saying it's awful. The magus is ok. The action economy is very fiddly and there are a bunch of annoyances like their spellstrike casting provoking AOOs and the lack of attack roll spells to use it with but in general the class functions fine and there isn't really anything wrong with the spell progression.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Ironically enough, if you're willing to use a bow instead of a greatsword you could go for any evil-aligned Champion and take Eldritch Archer to shoot people with Eldritch Shot and deliver EDIT: Ah, the Magus Spellstrike ability does in fact seem to work the same way as Eldritch Shot and lets you use any spell, it's just split into a 2-action ability with a 1-action recharge before using it again instead of a single 3-action ability. Magus even gets a Wellspring feat, so you can get 3 focus points per encounter on a Magus base. You totally can't multiclass into Magus from another class though, because then your Spellstrike recharge takes 1 minute instead of 1 action, oof! Vanguard Warden fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 20:16
|
|
|
While we're doing build suggestions, how would you go about recreating a crusader themed nova damage Divine Smite paladin from 5e? 2h weapon preferred. Free archetype with campaign probably topping out at lvl 10.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
Vanguard Warden posted:Ironically enough, if you're willing to use a bow instead of a greatsword you could go for any evil-aligned Champion and take Eldritch Archer to shoot people with Eldritch Shot and deliver Now that I think about it, Magus with Bones Oracle archetype might work as well. Throw Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, etc at enemies constantly, and drain them with Soul Siphon. Alternately, Bones Oracle with Champion Dedication for that heavy armour would work. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 21:01
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:While we're doing build suggestions, how would you go about recreating a crusader themed nova damage Divine Smite paladin from 5e? 2h weapon preferred. Free archetype with campaign probably topping out at lvl 10. PF 2e seems pretty drat restrictive on combos and linking stuff together, so this would just be the same Magus build from above again, likely taking Basic Devotion: Deity's Domain from a champion archetype for a Fire domain deity to get the Fire Ray focus spell, adding 2d6 fire damage per spell level to your swing (up to +70 average damage). There might be some more holy-ish alignment damage options out there, but Fire Ray is the hardest hitting option printed so far that I know of and seems thematically fitting enough. For bonus points get the Conducting property on your weapon for a free extra 1d8 fire damage as part of the Spellstrike combo. You can use Spellstrike with any weapon as far as I can tell, but for extra silliness you could dip Investigator for Devise a Stratagem with finesse/agile/ranged weapons (elven curve blade, if you still want two-handed?) and know what your attack roll will be before you choose to swing or cast anything. Cyouni posted:Throw Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, etc at enemies constantly, and drain them with Soul Siphon. Yeah, that would be a lot of free temp HP 'leeched' off of your targets, definitely an interesting way to self-sustain and tank damage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
Honestly, odds are anything gishy will be looking at Magus or Eldritch Archer first. It does the best blend of martial combat with spellcasting. Champion isn't awful for that as well, as long as you're looking at divine spells. Monk can do some specifics, if you're on divine/occult.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Now that I think about it, Magus with Bones Oracle archetype might work as well. Throw Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, etc at enemies constantly, and drain them with Soul Siphon. That's a neat combo, I haven't really looked at Oracle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Honestly, odds are anything gishy will be looking at Magus or Eldritch Archer first. It does the best blend of martial combat with spellcasting. The best gishy combo I've seen so far takes forever to come online, but it's Monk with Eldritch Shot dipping Cleric/Champion for the Fire Ray domain spell. At 19th level Monks can't roll lower than a nat 10 on their first Strike every round due to the Perfected Form class feature, so that's 100% chance to hit on nearly any target in the bestiaries unless you start taking on penalties. I've mathed out a bunch of different martial builds though, and because of the way things like critical success/failure, weapon specialization, and striking runes work in PF2 the key to doing a lot of damage is almost always to just crank up your attack bonus as high as possible and spam out attacks. A Flurry Edge longbow Ranger using just Strikes and Hunted Shot all round will do more damage than an Eldritch Shot that can't miss adding 20d6 damage from Fire Ray will.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
Vanguard Warden posted:I've mathed out a bunch of different martial builds though, and because of the way things like critical success/failure, weapon specialization, and striking runes work in PF2 the key to doing a lot of damage is almost always to just crank up your attack bonus as high as possible and spam out attacks. A Flurry Edge longbow Ranger using just Strikes and Hunted Shot all round will do more damage than an Eldritch Shot that can't miss adding 20d6 damage from Fire Ray will. That said, I recall my math suggests that anything that prevents the Flurry Ranger from spamming out shots will cut their damage massively. They also don't do quite as well on turns where they have to actually start up the Hunter's Edge, because of that lost attack. Out of curiosity, have you tried out the math on something like Fighter using that against a flat-footed enemy (thanks to Stealth) at the start of combat?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2021 22:58
|
|
|
Dark Knight also wants either a Vicious weapon or a class ability that can make their sword Vicious - adding damage to the enemy by taking damage themselves is the other part of their schtick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Out of curiosity, have you tried out the math on something like Fighter using that against a flat-footed enemy (thanks to Stealth) at the start of combat? Shooting at a 'moderate' at-level target AC (44 at 20th) without flat-footed, using typical high-end gear (composite longbow, highest available potency + striking runes plus 3 elemental damage property runes, a Dex apex item), a 20th level Monk using Eldritch Shot w/ Fire Ray deals 124.95 average DPR. With flat-footed from assuming sneaking or just party synergy, that goes up to 137.25 DPR. Going fighter instead (+2 proficiency bonus to both attack and damage, but losing Perfected Form) brings that DOWN to 135.98 DPR. While the legendary proficiency gains you 10% crit chance at the top end, you go from 0% miss chance to 15%. Fighter also can't get the good Refocus feats, and focus spells are the most reliable AND powerful you can get your hands on with a martial class because they heighten all the way up to 10th. I made a big automated spreadsheet for this stuff for fun, so I can compare the values for builds at each level rather than just at 20th, that's just an obvious 'final' point to benchmark full potential at. For reference, the bog standard flurry longbow Ranger at 20th is 140.48 DPR including reliable flat-footed on targets from Distracting Shot, and my record best build so far is a dual-wielding halfling flurry Ranger + Assassin riding a panther animal companion as a mount for more than twice as much at 289.25 DPR, but that one requires both Marked for Death and Hunt Prey on a target so it's a lot more hypothetical. The Golux posted:Dark Knight also wants either a Vicious weapon or a class ability that can make their sword Vicious - adding damage to the enemy by taking damage themselves is the other part of their schtick. Uh, isn't Vicious only a PF1e thing so far? Vanguard Warden fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 02:39
|
|
|
The Golux posted:Dark Knight also wants either a Vicious weapon or a class ability that can make their sword Vicious - adding damage to the enemy by taking damage themselves is the other part of their schtick. Are there class abilities that give Vicious?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 03:51
|
|
|
Vicious doesn’t exist in 2e; assuming it’ll get added at some point, it would be a good fit for houseruling as an option for the Magus’s Runic Impression Feat though. All roads lead back to the Magus here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 04:25
|
|
|
Oh, sorry, I had missed that it wasn't included in 2e. It's not normally something I want to use so I've never looked for it but I always think about dark knights on the rare occasion I do think of it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 06:41
|
|
|
Andrast posted:The magus is ok. The action economy is very fiddly and there are a bunch of annoyances like their spellstrike casting provoking AOOs and the lack of attack roll spells to use it with but in general the class functions fine and there isn't really anything wrong with the spell progression. Honestly I think the spellstrike AOO provoking thing is part of a general issue in Pathfinder, where I think the rule writers keep forgetting about "subactions" (i.e. if you have an action like Spellstrike that combines Strike and Cast a Spell and similar combos) keeping their traits, so if you bring AOO into the picture things get messy fast. I had a thread at Paizo pointing out that with Quick Draw RAW, since it includes Interact to draw the weapon (a Manipulate action), if you try to build a quick draw iaijutsu samurai or similar he will always be hit first by your average level 1 orc. It also makes Mug (Steal + Strike) a deadly move, with the added hilarity that if you pass your Thievery check the AOO enemy doesn't even know WHY they hit you in the face. And if you read really strictly for Reload being an Interact action, even a Reload 0 weapon like a bow would provoke on use (it may be a free action, but like all these other actions it's still an Interact action) so Mobile Shot Stance is functionally useless since it says you don't get AOO for ranged strikes but the enemy would still hit you every time you put an arrow in your bow. Things just go crazy with Disrupting Stance adding concentrate actions to the list and allowing disrupt on hit instead of crit. This suddenly makes it deadly and potentially easy to interrupt actions such as an Investigator's Devise a Stratagem ("Didn't see that coming, did you Sherlock?!"), basically any magic item usage, Demoralize (including Intimidating Glare; literally smack them in the face for looking at you funny), and my absolute favorite Recall Knowledge ("I just remembered this is a bad idea!!" *SMACK* "drat it, what was I saying?!"). Fortunately after Bestiary 1 Paizo seems to have gone even more conservative with AOO monsters (I noticed they have a lot of "I can hit you with a Reaction if you do these particular things" abilities that aren't quite as broad as AOO in a lot of the new stuff) and a lot fewer of them with improved AOO such as disrupt on hit/concentrate, so I think most folks concluded it wasn't that terrible an issue, but I still think they should start writing any relevant traits on the "main" actions of these combo abilities and saying the main action tags override the "subaction" tags to help avoid this sort of RAW silliness. I also figure DMs would provoke a dice-throwing attack of opportunity from trying most of these in real play  .
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 06:42
|
|
|
Is the GM Screen section on Nethys relatively new, or am I just a dumbass for not noticing it before? https://2e.aonprd.com/GMScreen.aspx Very handy resource.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 16:03
|
|
|
What's a good 5th Level Adventure?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 20:27
|
|
|
Following the 5e thread, what are the houserules everyone uses for PF2e?
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Following the 5e thread, what are the houserules everyone uses for PF2e? So far the only house rule I've implemented is eliminating some of the AoO provoking from certain actions that's been commented on upthread. We haven't gotten too deep into the system, but I haven't seen anything else that really needs tweaking, it overall works pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
Yeah the only things I can think of that I use are both variants from the GMG - you can split movement actions across other movement actions (ie stride 10 - climb 10 - stride 15 is 2 actions not 3 with a speed of 25) and just let areas count in squares instead of circles like in 4e. It’s a pretty solid system all told
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2021 21:55
|
|