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SeaborneClink posted:Here. I'm sure that had something to do with it, but probably more because of prevailing winds.
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Dec 6, 2013 00:18
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The Locator posted:I'm sure that had something to do with it, but probably more because of prevailing winds. Weight and winds probably had a lot to do with it (getting rid of 10 tons of bombs helps fuel economy quite a bit), but I'd guess altitude was also a major factor. From what I can find, the attacks were made at fairly low altitudes (on top of the weight of the bombs forcing a lower cruising altitude outbound), which would have resulted in much higher fuel burn than cruising at higher altitudes on the way back to Ascension.
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Dec 6, 2013 01:29
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Ok, as promised, here's the first mid-week short. They won't be regular, just when they fit with the previous (or next) topic. The Phastest Phantom: The (short) Tale of the F-4X So, imagine you’re Israel in 1971. Beset by enemies on all sides and to top it all off, the “Egyptians” (really, it was the Soviets) are flying their brand-new, Mach-3 capable (once) MiG-25R “Foxbat” reconnaissance aircraft over your country with relative impunity. The F-4s in your fleet just don’t have enough performance to intercept these aircraft, let alone catch them. Meanwhile, back in the United States, the Air Force wants a tactical reconnaissance aircraft with the speed of the SR-71 Blackbird, but obviously without the insane operating cost (and, all the red tape you need to go through to use one of the Strategic Air Command’s most precious resources). Also, neither Israel nor the United States wants to spend more than they have to on said aircraft. So, what do you do? Get General Dynamics on the Line, Pronto! “What’s his phone number?” “General Dynamics isn’t a whom, it’s a what!” (Unless you’re Mitt Romney, then it is a whom). Throughout the early 1960s, the Convair Division of General Dynamics had spent a considerable amount of time trying to improve the performance of their premier interceptor aircraft, the F-106 Delta Dart. Though already quite a fast aircraft, with a top speed of Mach 2.3, Convair wished to sell the US Air Force a far more advanced version of the aircraft, dubbed the F-106X. Combining a much larger radar (that necessitated a 6-foot stretch to the already large F-106A) and a far more powerful version of the Pratt & Whitney J75 turbojet, this new aircraft was to fly at speeds in excess of Mach 2.5 and altitudes as high as 73,000 feet.  Illustration of the Convair F-106X Advanced Delta Dart. In addition to the longer and larger nose, canards were fitted and the engine intakes were completely revised for pre-compressor cooling. To reach such levels of performance, Convair devised a novel system known as pre-compressor cooling, or PCC for short. Anyone familiar with high-performance turbocharged engines will probably recognise how PCC works; a series of spray bars mounted in the intake dump a solution of distilled water and methanol into the air stream, cooling the airstream through evaporation and thereby increasing its density. This allows the compressor to work harder and force more air into the combustors without exceeding the engine’s temperature limitations. On paper, at least, PCC could allow for up to 150% more thrust (with and without afterburner) until the water supply was exhausted. Now, you might say, “that’s nothing special because all sorts of jet engines used water injection to boost thrust, what the hell MrChips?” and you’d be partially right about that. The difference here is scale; traditional water injection systems would spray between the engine’s compressor and combustor, which severely limits how much water you can put through the system – most engines with this system would only realise about a 10-15% increase in thrust. With PCC, you can dump a whole lot more water into the airstream simply because you have more room for injectors, and you have a lot more distance for the water to evaporate completely. Now, the F-106X was cancelled shortly after the project began partly because it was felt that manned interceptors were becoming obsolete and mostly because the Sky Scorcher missile it was to be armed with was one of the most ill-conceived weapons in history. All of their research on the F-106X and PCC was shelved, waiting for the day it was needed... Making Peace Jack ...which happened to be 1971, when both the USAF and the Israeli Air Force were looking to boost the performance of the RF-4 Phantom reconnaissance aircraft on the cheap, in a program they called “Project Peace Jack”. General Dynamics heeded the call, and came up with a series of modifications to the F-4. Combining a complicated new air intake with a complicated series of air bleeds, vortex generators, splitter plates and spray bars, this intake was (in theory) capable of allowing the engines to run safely (and with enough power) for this new version of the F-4 to cruise at Mach 2.7, and dash at speeds up to Mach 3.2 for ten minutes, roughly equivalent to the MiG-25R. Since the F-4’s internal volume was already pretty much maxed out as it was, GD devised a pair of water tanks, each carrying 2500 gallons of water-methanol solution, mounted conformally to the spine of the aircraft above each engine nacelle.   An undelivered Israeli Air Force RF-4E (in temporary USAF markings) serving as a full-scale mock-up of the RF-4X’s intake (above) and a wind-tunnel model of the RF-4X (below) to test the configuration of the conformal water-methanol tanks. Added to that, the RF-4X, as the reconnaissance version was to be called, would integrate the highly advanced HIAC-1 camera in the nose, giving the RF-4 one of the most powerful cameras ever used in aerial reconnaissance up to that time. Minor changes were made to the rest of the airframe as well, as detailed in this diagram:  A summary diagram of all the changes rendered to the RF-4X over standard versions of the RF-4. Naturally, this aircraft interested both the USAF and the IAF, the latter of whom asked, “Well, if we could modify the RF-4 like this, we could do the regular F-4 as well, right?” and end up with an interceptor capable of challenging the MiG-25Rs of the Egyptian Air Force. Unfortunately, this increased performance on the cheap proved to be the downfall of the RF-4X program. At the time, the USAF was just about to fly the replacement for the F-4, the McDonnell-Douglas F-15 Eagle, and the incredible (theoretical) performance of the F-4X was seen as a direct threat to the entire F-15 program. In 1974, the USAF completely withdrew their support for the F-4X program, leaving Israel as the only participant. As they did not have the budget to continue the program unilaterally, Project Peace Jack died off, and the IAF eventually ordered F-15s as their primary interceptor type. There were a number of technical concerns with the F-4X as well; if the PCC system failed, the engine associated would almost immediately fail in a catastrophic manner...not something desirable when lining up a reconnaissance run on Cairo or Damascus (or anywhere else for that matter). Beyond that, it was doubtful that the basic airframe of the F-4 could be made to cope with such high speeds without extreme modification. Though an interesting concept, the F-4X was an idea born largely of desperation it seems, and like many ideas born under similar circumstances, was not completely thought through.
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Dec 6, 2013 01:47
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Here's a Mig-31 with a bunch of gopro cameras flying around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIYMyZowQV0
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Dec 6, 2013 02:12
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This is vaguely aeronautical. It's also loving  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a98_1386197785
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Dec 6, 2013 03:01
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mlmp08 posted:This is vaguely aeronautical. It's also loving
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Dec 6, 2013 03:23
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mlmp08 posted:This is vaguely aeronautical. It's also loving Watching that made my hands go clammy with sweat instantly. gently caress.
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Dec 6, 2013 03:58
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SyHopeful posted:Watching that made my hands go clammy with sweat instantly. gently caress. That slomo gives you plenty of time to clench up for each hit, ugh.
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Dec 6, 2013 05:09
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Terrifying Effigies posted:That slomo gives you plenty of time to clench up for each hit, ugh. I'm glad he Crotched himself on the first hit, I got to giggle before it got gruesome. Made it up to the first big head blow before killing it.
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Dec 6, 2013 05:13
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Powercube posted:I'm media, Boeing doesn't give you jack poo poo no matter who you are. There are no "open days". They also have the dumbest restrictions- like if you are there for an airline's media event- you can only take photos of that aircraft for "copyright reasons". Yeah, the reason they tell us is that the interior is proprietary information, and the customer reps will have a loving heart attack if they think images of the interiors might get out somehow before the plane is delivered.
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Dec 6, 2013 05:21
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The only video where "Sail" is the appropriate soundtrack.
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Dec 6, 2013 06:12
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mlmp08 posted:This is vaguely aeronautical. It's also loving Off heading openings loving suck. Sometimes you can do everything right and its just your day.
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Dec 6, 2013 06:45
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Throatwarbler posted:Here's a Mig-31 with a bunch of gopro cameras flying around. Jesus christ the housing they had to weld together for the gopros....
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Dec 6, 2013 12:31
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mlmp08 posted:This is vaguely aeronautical. It's also loving Holy poo poo. This one always chokes me up http://youtu.be/45VtzmtA_C0
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Dec 6, 2013 14:12
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Throatwarbler posted:Here's a Mig-31 with a bunch of gopro cameras flying around. Whats that thing that raises behind the cockpit ? Is that an airbrake ? And if so, why taking off with that thing raised ?
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Dec 6, 2013 14:35
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Micr0chiP posted:Whats that thing that raises behind the cockpit ? Periscope for rear crewmember
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Dec 6, 2013 14:39
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Hey, haven't had any air race videos in a while... http://www.wimp.com/aviationrace/  Holy at poo poo the 1:03 mark
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Dec 6, 2013 15:32
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MrChips posted:mostly because the Sky Scorcher missile it was to be armed with was one of the most ill-conceived weapons in history. Just in case anyone was curious as to what the Sky Scorcher consisted of...a 2 loving MEGATON warhead. On an air to air missile. Intended to be detonated against enemy bomber formations, quite possibly over your own territory. Two Megatons. At least the name was appropriate.
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Dec 6, 2013 16:16
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Should have been called the Ragequit
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Dec 6, 2013 16:27
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iyaayas01 posted:Just in case anyone was curious as to what the Sky Scorcher consisted of...a 2 loving MEGATON warhead. On an air to air missile. Intended to be detonated against enemy bomber formations, quite possibly over your own territory. Two Megatons. "The oversized warhead would be used against attacking formations of supersonic bombers; it was anticipated that fourteen such initiations, at a distance of approximately 460 miles (740 km) from the bombers' target, would be sufficient to disrupt an attack." Setting 28 megatons of airburst off over your own soil, you might as well just stand down and let the attack happen in the first place.
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Dec 6, 2013 16:33
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Phanatic posted:"The oversized warhead would be used against attacking formations of supersonic bombers; it was anticipated that fourteen such initiations, at a distance of approximately 460 miles (740 km) from the bombers' target, would be sufficient to disrupt an attack."
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Dec 6, 2013 16:34
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grover posted:Hey, haven't had any air race videos in a while... I guess we should make skipping planes a sport now.
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Dec 6, 2013 16:36
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grover posted:Hey, haven't had any air race videos in a while... Wow, that's just. Wow. So I'm guessing he stalled the left wing with too much aileron to roll it back to the right, but halted it quick enough that the roll didn't continue, picked up enough airspeed from the dip that he managed to roll it level right before impact. Sheesh. edit: He says here he actually G stalled it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwKqD9ylLo Better footage too. dayman fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 16:36
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How do you calculate the kill radius of an atomic warhead against a plane, anyway? It has to be beyond the fireball. Is it the 5 psi line? 1 psi? What kind of enemy formation spread needed a 2MT warhead (or several) to smack it out of the air, but more, smaller warheads didn't make as much sense? E: Playing with nukemap, for a 2MT warhead detonated at 30,000 feet, neither the fireball nor the 5psi line would hit the ground, but you still have about a 15km radius of burning everything below it to ash, and the 1.5 psi radius is pretty close to that. But your 1 psi airborne radius is only about 20km anyway. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 16:41
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Snowdens Secret posted:How do you calculate the kill radius of an atomic warhead against a plane, anyway? It has to be beyond the fireball. Is it the 5 psi line? 1 psi? What kind of enemy formation spread needed a 2MT warhead (or several) to smack it out of the air, but more, smaller warheads didn't make as much sense? You stick a bunch of planes and boats and stuff in the middle of the Pacific, and detonate several airburst nukes of varying strength in the middle, then see how much is damaged at what radius, then die of leukaemia 20 years later.
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Dec 6, 2013 17:01
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Illuminati by Nature posted:Holy poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWgsdexkv18
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Dec 6, 2013 17:41
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Snowdens Secret posted:How do you calculate the kill radius of an atomic warhead against a plane, anyway? It has to be beyond the fireball. Is it the 5 psi line? 1 psi? What kind of enemy formation spread needed a 2MT warhead (or several) to smack it out of the air, but more, smaller warheads didn't make as much sense? The Genie only had a warhead of, iirc, 150T (0.15KT). The one time they tested it at NPG (plumbbob john) they detonated it at about 15,000' and had 5 AF officers standing at ground zero. So I'm guessing the thermal pulse is the radius of damage for AA purposes, and it would be <15,000' (the officers winced from the heat pulse, but weren't injured). e: wiki says that the lethal radius was claimed to be 1000', which is pretty close to the 3rd degree burns radius of the thermal pulse. Also *release* height was 15k, noone knows how high the detonation was, but somewhere closer to 20k SybilVimes fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 17:52
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SybilVimes posted:The Genie only had a warhead of, iirc, 150T (0.15KT). The one time they tested it at NPG (plumbbob john) they detonated it at about 15,000' and had 5 AF officers standing at ground zero. Altitude matters. Spartan's principle kill method against inbound RVs was supposed to be X-ray and neutron pulse. Most of the energy of a nuke comes out as x-rays, it's just that low in the atmosphere that's rapidly converted into a blast wave. At high altitudes, it stays as x-rays, and the idea was they'd explosively ablate the inbound, or the neutrons following just behind them would cause predetonation of the plutonium warheads and spoil the yield. So those guys standing under Genie were protected by a lot of atmosphere and didn't receive any x-ray or neutron pulse to speak of, but the atmosphere's transparent to the thermal pulse so they still felt a bit of that.
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Dec 6, 2013 18:13
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Delivery McGee posted:The good ol' double Roman candle. In case you can't make it out, he says "gently caress, I'm dead. Bye!"
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Dec 6, 2013 18:15
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Linedance posted:You stick a bunch of planes and boats and stuff in the middle of the Pacific, and detonate several airburst nukes of varying strength in the middle, then see how much is damaged at what radius, then die of leukaemia 20 years later. For right or wrong, the Americans had a gently caress-ton of empirical data about nuclear explosions. They are responsible for at least half of all of them. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY Apologies if this is a repeat from earlier in the thread.
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Dec 6, 2013 18:33
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Jonny Nox posted:For right or wrong, the Americans had a gently caress-ton of empirical data about nuclear explosions. They are responsible for at least half of all of them. Considering worldwide over 2,053 individual weapons were tested, 1,032 of those by the United States, you'd hope we would. http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab15.asp And now we have the National Ignition Facility for simulating them
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Dec 6, 2013 18:39
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dayman posted:Wow, that's just. Wow. Wow. That's really fast reaction times for him to have recognized that and corrected. I thought for sure that the left wingtip was going to catch and pinwheel the whole thing.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:25
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http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/06/seg-plane-wind.cnn.html Would've been cool if he could've landed that. e:fb, damnit. sorry. invision fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 22:36
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invision posted:http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/06/seg-plane-wind.cnn.html One page back, and without CNN bullshit. JingleBells posted:It's been a bit windy over here in the UK today:
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Dec 6, 2013 22:54
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On UA 786 from SMF to IAD today and the captain preemptively told the purser that ch 9 would not be on. Jerk.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:13
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Jealous Cow posted:On UA 786 from SMF to IAD today and the captain preemptively told the purser that ch 9 would not be on. Jerk. You would have heard my magical voice at some point if it had been available.
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Dec 6, 2013 23:27
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fknlo posted:You would have heard my magical voice at some point if it had been available. ATC? You handled me (hehe) today?
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Dec 6, 2013 23:29
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Jealous Cow posted:On UA 786 from SMF to IAD today and the captain preemptively told the purser that ch 9 would not be on. Jerk. What does any of this mean?
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Dec 7, 2013 03:13
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AnimalChin posted:What does any of this mean? "You're not allowed to listen to us dicking about on the radio and teasing the steward(esse)s, Sperg McTastic." Channel 9 has often been reserved for listening to the chatter between your plane and ATC. ObRelated: Thanks to one of these systems, I own a Windham Hill CD. I don't even remember which song it is that I wanted in the late 90s. They all put me to sleep. 
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Dec 7, 2013 03:27
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Illuminati by Nature posted:Holy poo poo. The reference to the somewhat sappy fiction in the beginning is apt for the setup they want to do, but there is a WW2 story which is not sappy, not fiction and was confirmed by the German captors. quote:On the night of 24 March 1944, 21-year-old Alkemade was one of seven crew members in Lancaster DS664[1] of No. 115 Squadron RAF. Returning from a 300 bomber raid on Berlin, east of Schmallenberg, DS664 was attacked by a Luftwaffe Ju 88 night-fighter, caught fire and began to spiral out of control. Because his parachute was unserviceable, Alkemade jumped from the aircraft without one, preferring to die by impact rather than burn to death. He fell 18,000 feet (5,500 m) to the ground below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade
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Dec 7, 2013 10:44
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