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So there were a lot of pictures taken during the lead-up to the mission / during prep; were these sanctioned and then eventually declassified? Also, I guess at this time, you could (somewhat) penetrate Iranian airspace with impunity? I.E. no IADS, radar network, etc?
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Jun 6, 2013 17:54
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They had radar, but their air force was in disarray from the revolution and they lost a lot of their leadership due to purges and such. This is why Saddam saw an opening and invaded a few years later. Radar also isn't anywhere near perfect, thats why they were using nap of the Earth flying to get there.
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Jun 6, 2013 18:07
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movax posted:Also, I guess at this time, you could (somewhat) penetrate Iranian airspace with impunity? I.E. no IADS, radar network, etc? The F-14s make a hell of an AWACS. Whether the missile actually work is another question. Presumably we'd engage at BVR while they dropped past-expiration-date Phoenixes, and send in some Edit: aren't there semi-credible accounts from wars against Iran where the enemy fighters turned tail and ran when they were painted by the AWG-9, which the Iranians were using as ersatz AWACS, the missiles having long passed their use-by date? Edit again: was the Tomcat as good as the Navy and Iran say it was/is? I mean, it looked sexy as hell, starred in a blockbuster movie, and had decent specs, and was the more reasonable option after an expensive boondoggle failed, but was it actually that badass? 
Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 18:08
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Delivery McGee posted:
No And where are you getting the info about the Kitty being a good AWACS?
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Jun 6, 2013 18:27
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Those Phoenix missiles weren't past their expiration date in 1980 so that might have been problematic but all I've read points to the missile really being a bomber killer with a low Pk against maneuvering targets, especially so at the more extreme end of its range (as with all missiles tbh). The initial F-14s suffered from their relatively underpowered engines which were also very prone to compressor stall. From what I've gathered the plane had a very decent instantaneous turn rate, as with a lot of other naval fighters, but suffered in sustained turning and would bleed airspeed like a motherfucker. I guess it functioned more like a boom and zoom fighter up close, although initial performance in the vertical wouldn't have been much to write home about. All in all still a very useful platform if used in its intended role - fleet air defence - where picking off AVMF regiments ruled the roost. Comparable aircraft like MiG-23 or the Tornado ADV probably had more limitations and only something like the MiG-31 seems to get close.
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Jun 6, 2013 18:34
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Geizkragen posted:No Well, "good" as in "better than anything else Iran has" and "that's really all they can do better than Soviet export-model fighters since the Phoenixes have crapped out" from Wikipedia. But yeah, very much boom-and-zoom from way out. Good for keeping the Soviet bombers away from the carrier before cruise missiles got good, and okay as a bomber later in life once they fixed the problem of it randomly exploding. Conversely, what's the consensus on the F-15? Is the -C really the best fighter of its generation? I'm sure the Mudhen is better than the Bombcat in the attack role. Edit: also, how's the Superbug in relation to the -14 and -15? I get the impression from Clancy and his ilk that the Tomcat was decent and looked awesome, the Intruder was the best bomb truck ever, and the two flavors of F-15 are the end-all of their respective jobs, and the -18E/F is jack of all trades, master of none. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 18:52
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Delivery McGee posted:Well, "good" as in "better than anything else Iran has" and "that's really all they can do better than Soviet export-model fighters since the Phoenixes have crapped out" from Wikipedia. The Israelis have certainly eaten their opponents alive with the F-15C; now that I think about, thanks to the Israelis, we (assumedly) have a lot of real-life data about how they really perform in combat (insert comment about opponents here). That said I thought the MiG-29 when operated by a competent airforce (Luftwaffe) was nothing to sneeze at, especially if they got in close and you lost your technological/BVR advantage. They had awful range and subpar avionics, but the manoeuvrability was certainly present. Having working IRST didn't hurt either. movax fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 18:55
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movax posted:The Israelis have certainly eaten their opponents alive with the F-15C; now that I think about, thanks to the Israelis, we (assumedly) have a lot of real-life data about how they really perform in combat (insert comment about opponents here). Yeah, doesn't the -15C have a perfect record of 104:0 or so, if you don't count the time the guy smoked his wingman, possibly because they loaded warshots instead of training missiles? (or was it known live missiles and he accidentally pulled the trigger?) I am constantly amused by the Mudhen's one air-to-air kill. They dropped a bomb on a helicopter offloading troops, the helicopter took off, and the 2000-pound bomb found its mark at 800 feet AGL just as the pilot was waiting for tone on a Sidewinder.
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Jun 6, 2013 19:04
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The F-15C with the V3 AESA radar they are sticking in them is debatably still one of the top 5 fighters in the world in many respects. Platforms like the Su-35 and EF-2000 with the same support/inventory/training as the US has are probably right in that boat, though. Thats all nerdy airplane theorycrafting though, as they probably will never even face each other in combat.
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Jun 6, 2013 20:24
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Well, with the way modern "fighters" the best one would probably be a E-3 with an AIM-54
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Jun 6, 2013 20:46
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Saw something unusual today. Solar Impulse, a solar airplane that is slowly (40mph) making it's way across the country, proving technologies for a v2.0 that will do a round the world flight. solarimpulse by RReiheld, on Flickr  DSC_5785 by RReiheld, on Flickr Also saw a very hazy and wrong-lensy F-18 doing touch and gos off the parallel runway  blurryhornet by RReiheld, on Flickr And the old McDonnell manufacturing floor, complete with some old timers happy to tell you how about back in the day they had F-4's from here to there, and the F-18 line going this way, and the F-15 line going thatway. The Solar Impulse was actually supposed to be in here, but this hangar was damaged by last weeks tornados, so they put it in a temporary hangar they fly along in a Dornier 328 behind them  mcdonnellmanufacturingfloor by RReiheld, on Flickr
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Jun 6, 2013 21:56
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Off to Seattle this weekend, there is a Museum of some type I should check out right?
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Jun 7, 2013 00:50
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drat, that's a pretty big temporary hangar.
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Jun 7, 2013 01:27
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Slo-Tek posted:Saw something unusual today. Solar Impulse, a solar airplane that is slowly (40mph) making it's way across the country, proving technologies for a v2.0 that will do a round the world flight. Hard to find a solid photo, but does that aircraft only have one landing gear? Is it something like the U-2's layout?
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Jun 7, 2013 01:37
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movax posted:Off to Seattle this weekend, there is a Museum of some type I should check out right? Mnmm yeah, also there's a huge aircraft factory nearby?? I don't know
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Jun 7, 2013 02:12
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Koesj posted:The initial F-14s suffered from their relatively underpowered engines which were also very prone to compressor stall. I am by no means an expert or professional source, but the TF30 is a piece of poo poo.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:23
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YF19pilot posted:Hard to find a solid photo, but does that aircraft only have one landing gear? Is it something like the U-2's layout? Very much like that. The main gear retracts, but it has a fixed tail-wheel, and a couple pogos under the outboard engines that are not retractable. When it is on display, they have a couple taller jacks to put in next to the pogos.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:36
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movax posted:Off to Seattle this weekend, there is a Museum of some type I should check out right? That museum is a 2 day thing, no lie. I spent an entire day from opening to close and I had to blow through several exhibits. Mrs. Slidebite was incredibly patient but would have killed me in my sleep if I wanted to go back the next day.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:57
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smackfu posted:drat, that's a pretty big temporary hangar.  edit: You probably just meant it's a huge rear end temporary hanger from the wing span. Overworked and exhausted... Entone fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 03:03
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Also in the old hangar was this: 10000 by RReiheld, on Flickr Which I suspect was to mark the 10,000th aircraft manufactured there. The total production run on the Phantom alone was 5,195 aircraft. Add in a few Banshees, Demons, Eagles, and Hornets, and pretty soon you're talking real money. They still build superbugs in St. Louis, in a new facility across the way, and at least occasionally test the F-15SE.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:19
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Museum of Flight is definitely a 2-day thing. Paine Field in Everett also has the Flying Heritage Museum, along with the MoF's restoration center. I still haven't been to the heritage museum, I really need to make a day of it.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:19
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I haven't done it but there is also the Future of Flight museum which gives you a tour of the Boeing Everett factory (747, 767, 777, 787).
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Jun 7, 2013 04:50
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CharlesM posted:I haven't done it but there is also the Future of Flight museum which gives you a tour of the Boeing Everett factory (747, 767, 777, 787). If you are ever up in Seattle and have time to kill, absolutely do that tour. It sucks you can't take pictures but being in that factory is awe inspiring. I need to go back and check out the Flying Heritage Museum.
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Jun 7, 2013 06:10
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Mobius1B7R posted:If you are ever up in Seattle and have time to kill, absolutely do that tour. It sucks you can't take pictures but being in that factory is awe inspiring. I need to go back and check out the Flying Heritage Museum. I drive past that factory every day on the way to work. It owns when the doors are open and you can see inside.
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Jun 7, 2013 07:00
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The 777 assembly line moves very slowly on "crawlers", giant wheeled vehicles. I think they go just a few feet per hour. It's supposed to be part of their Boeing Production System, which is of course their version of the Toyota Production System. I wonder why they didn't continue those crawlers to the 787. I'm guessing it's because of how the production was supposed to happen, with a quick final assembly of the parts being brought in from the different factories. edit: Supposedly the factory is larger than Disneyland, I think the largest factory in the U.S. (world?) or something like that.
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Jun 7, 2013 08:30
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CharlesM posted:The 777 assembly line moves very slowly on "crawlers", giant wheeled vehicles. I think they go just a few feet per hour. It's supposed to be part of their Boeing Production System, which is of course their version of the Toyota Production System. I wonder why they didn't continue those crawlers to the 787. I'm guessing it's because of how the production was supposed to happen, with a quick final assembly of the parts being brought in from the different factories. The Everett plant is still the largest building in the world by volume, seriously it's big as hell.
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Jun 7, 2013 13:08
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San Bernardino International Airport is this weird almost completely unused facility surrounded by grocery store warehouses. I went there yesterday to see the 747-8i Boeing is doing testing on out there.    
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Jun 7, 2013 15:26
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CharlesM posted:The 777 assembly line moves very slowly on "crawlers", giant wheeled vehicles. I think they go just a few feet per hour. It's supposed to be part of their Boeing Production System, which is of course their version of the Toyota Production System. I wonder why they didn't continue those crawlers to the 787. I'm guessing it's because of how the production was supposed to happen, with a quick final assembly of the parts being brought in from the different factories. The 787 assembly takes place on crawlers; it's because mobile factory equipment is taxed at a lower rate than immobile factory equipment too.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:02
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Blistex posted:I don't think there was one part of Credible sport that made sense. The anticipated casualties for Credible Sport (for both the hostages and the rescuers) were pretty  . So much so that the -130s were going to take off from the soccer stadium and fly directly to an aircraft carrier to get treatment.Yes, the Herks involved were going to do a glorified crash "assault" landing in a soccer stadium, then do a STOL takeoff from said stadium, and THEN land on an aircraft carrier.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:59
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We're going to land, Delta Force will free the hostages, and we'll take off.
What about the Iranian guards? Won't they fire on the aircraft, the soldiers, and possibly execute the hostages?
makes sense to me!
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iyaayas01 posted:The anticipated casualties for Credible Sport (for both the hostages and the rescuers) were pretty And then, I imagine, just be shoved off into the ocean afterwards.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:16
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ctishman posted:And then, I imagine, just be shoved off into the ocean afterwards. Doubt it. Herks can take off from a carrier too, really not all that much to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar-poc38C84 Probably would've offloaded everyone (or at least the casualties), gotten some fuel if they needed it, and then relaunched to a base in Oman or Saudi or Egypt or wherever.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:21
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Domino's Flight Tests Pizza-Delivery Aircraft  quote:The DomiCopter, developed by Aerosight, has the ability to deliver up to two large pizzas over a four-mile radius. Will this spawn a new branch of ATC? Also, the 737 line is on moving platforms, too.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:52
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I see two problems with this: one, what if someone orders more than two pizzas? And two, replacing a pizza delivery boy with a drone operator seems like it will increase labor costs. Still, neat idea.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:59
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So there are 2 DC-3s and a Twin Otter (new build) sitting in front of the Viking hanger at YYC. They've been spinning up an engine on one of the DC-3s too. It's been a pretty good lunch. Bad one to have no camera though.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:06
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StandardVC10 posted:I see two problems with this: one, what if someone orders more than two pizzas? And two, replacing a pizza delivery boy with a drone operator seems like it will increase labor costs. Still, neat idea. If someone orders two pizzas they'll dispatch a car. Driving a drone is easy, even for computers; getting the drone to the general area can be automated while the difficult part of finding the right door might require a human. Regardless, it's basically a silly research/PR project that's much cheaper than a Super Bowl ad at this point.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:19
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Cocoa Crispies posted:The 787 assembly takes place on crawlers; it's because mobile factory equipment is taxed at a lower rate than immobile factory equipment too. Ah, I guess I missed that / forgot. Like the other poster said, there are no pictures allowed so I can't look at any to remind myself. AzureSkys posted:
I haven't been to that factory, but I have seen the 737 bodies on railcars making their way there. :P Cocoa Crispies posted:If someone orders two pizzas they'll dispatch a car. How does a drone ring a doorbell?
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Jun 7, 2013 19:54
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CharlesM posted:How does a drone ring a doorbell? I'd much rather get a phone call than a doorbell ring or door knock.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:57
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CharlesM posted:How does a drone ring a doorbell?
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Jun 7, 2013 20:17
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just imagine, you're chillin' in your crib, smoking mad   , and suddenly the craving for some primo 'za hits you like a moon shot. So you IM Dominos for an XL hot dog stuffed crust Hawaiian with jalapenos and anchovies. 30 minutes later, your pocket vibrates to alert you to the arrival of your pie. You go downstairs, open the door, and there is A loving UFO HOVERING IN FRONT OF YOU HOLDING YOUR PIZZA.This could be either the greatest or most terrifying day of your stoner life.
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Jun 7, 2013 20:29
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I'm gonna call up Iran to get their jamming technology. Free pizza for life.
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Jun 7, 2013 20:44
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