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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Now most of you have seen these before, but I had to dig them up for aircraft carrier submarine





Also, found pictures of the *other* cool looking six engined prewar French flying boat:







Maybe Airbus should reinstate that...control....hydrant? Seriously, in the middle, what the hell is that





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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

The Ferret King posted:

You adjust your seat until the red ball lines up with the white balls in your perspective.

Cool, like Japanese Aircraft carriers.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Platystemon posted:

My cyberpunk nightmare isn’t garage rocketry.

It’s garage virology, and that was true before December thirty‐first of last year.

You too?

Discovering that smallpox could be reconstituted with mail-order DNA, an undergrad in microbiology, and about $100,000 messed me up a bit

Though then discovering that the US government spent money developing a modern smallpox vaccine when this was discovered and this was done at the direction of George W Bush of all goddamn people was a shock in of itself

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Acid Reflux posted:

Well well, what do we have here?



Big Boi inbound! Supposed to be on the ground in ~15 minutes, I'll try to grab some pictures if it parks on my end of the field.

Nice!

Yesterday a plane landed and I took pictures:



It's a 767, suspiciously small reg number N1511A, callsign Giant. It's a cargo flight operated by Amazon/Atlas air, usually flies cargo for the US military.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I've seen quite a few pictures of the An-124 cargo area where some spare wheels are just hangin' out.

Also:





As far as rough terrain landing went it worked so well I think a modern version could partially replace helicopters

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


Huh, the one 944 that is actually fast

And quite a lot of interior room, if I'm being honest

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye











Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye





Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

F4FFFFFF pelican

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I think the pilot in a Swordfish was 3m off the deck.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

airship models when?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Is there a simple way to understand jurisdiction in air crashes, or is it usually just whatever people think will work best?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I was thinking about it re the Air India bombing, which was the worst air-related terrorist attack till the World Trade Center attacks, and the victims being overwhelmingly Canadian. For some reason though, this doesn't count as Canada's worst air disaster.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

e.pilot posted:

The sunset and weather tonight was really something :stare:



So is this California?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

To frequent flyers this with either require zero explanation or be baffling:

Taipei's Songshan airport offering simulated international travel

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

hobbesmaster posted:

Seems like desperation.

Taoyuan's international area at least was basically a high end shopping mall, those airports must be hurting badly.

Wait, revenue from shops is actually important to airport operation?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

MrYenko posted:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/celera-500l-plane/index.html

Goofy looking? Fast? Long ranged? 700hp diesel V12?

Sign me the gently caress up.

I clicked expecting something WW2 and German, and wasn't really disappointed

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

BIG HEADLINE posted:

The article says it'll have windows in the production model and that they'll be completely flush and not mess with laminar flow.

will they be really big windows

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

eggyolk posted:

The windows are all wrong. Needs to be centered on the nose like this.



:hai:

I'm also seeing possibilities of making a flying boat version

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Also, since we're talking glass noses, the He 177 cockpit is -------- about what you'd expect



I like this pilot's slightly alarmed expression

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

PainterofCrap posted:

What’s the wheelbarrow for

Its what the pilot is sitting in

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


[British North Country Accent] "Now, if'ee had used it as e basket to er blimp, she'd fly th' Ireland."

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


I started making noises halfway through

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Have a very long, detailed, and chock-full of images post from wintagewings.ca on aircraft in rival markings.

Includes this weird-as-hell story:

quote:



Some aircraft were never captured or found, but were in fact outright gifts from individuals making bad career decisions, such as this P-38 Lightning. Actually an F-5E, a reconnaissance version of the P-38. This particular aircraft, sporting Luftwaffe markings, was stolen by USAAF pilot Martin James Monti (Italian-Swiss father and German mother) when he defected to the Axis side. Monti hitched a flight aboard a C-46 from his base in Pakistan, to Cairo, and then to Italy via Tripoli. He stole the plane from the 354th Air Service Squadron and landed this Lightning at Pomigliano Airfield near Milan in Italy. The Italians had captured the aircraft and handed it over to the Germans. He defected and became a member of the SS, gained the rank of Leutnant, and participated in radio propaganda broadcasts to the United States and to American troops in Europe under the nom-de-plume of Captain Martin Wiethaupt. After the end of the war, he returned to Italy and turned himself in at the Fifth Army Headquarters, still wearing his SS uniform. Monti was court-martialled and sentenced to 15 years for desertion, but was pardoned after less than a year on the condition that he join the Army as a private. In 1948, having achieved the rank of sergeant, he was given a general discharge under honourable conditions, but was promptly arrested by the FBI, as his activities in Germany had become known. Ultimately, Monti was tried for treason and sentenced to 25 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. He was paroled in 1960, and died in 2000. Now that’s a good story! The Lightning was overall bare metal but the Luftwaffe painted the entire underside bright yellow from mid-fuselage down with T9+MK Luftwaffe serials. Source: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Humphreys posted:

Right, gonna need some context here.

Also as per earlier in the thread, the Kitbashing begins:



Godspeed

e: wrong thread

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Sep 11, 2020

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

ImplicitAssembler posted:

From that link

"Thus, assuming that the trend of the past 10 years continues in the coming years, and assuming
that all the wire strike accidents occur in conditions when it is most effective, equipping
helicopters with WSPS can reduce about 44% of the fatalities. However, this is an overestimate
because most of the accidents occurred during the climb and descent phases of flight and
involved wire strikes of the main rotor system, the tail boom, or the vertical tail."

I did have my numbers somewhat crossed...Wire-strikes has some of the highest number of fatalities, not necessarily highest number of accidents.
The 2 main things that are getting beaten into us at flight school are:
- LTE
-Wires

A lot of our flying here in BC is in a mountain environment which is also a wire environment.

You know what could help you there?

Airships.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


I was going to write "See?! My point exactly!! Look at how many survivors there were!" but 8 injuries and 3 unharmed to 34 deaths is a bit helicopter like

quote:

The Roma crashed in Norfolk, Virginia during test flights on February 21, 1922. The crash was caused by failure of the airship's box rudder system, which allowed it to maneuver over tight areas. Just before striking the ground, the airship contacted high voltage power lines, and burst into flames. A total of 34 were killed, 8 were injured, and 3 escaped unharmed. Among the dead was the airship's pilot, Captain Dale Mabry. The event marked the greatest disaster in American aeronautics history at the time.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Ardeem posted:

This made me look up Nebakenezzer's effort posts again, and photobucket has eaten most of the images. :saddowns:

When photobucket did its latest whatever a few years ago now, I deleted as many images as the poo poo interface would let me

Fortunately this switch happened when I was doing the imperial Airship posts so all the images are intact on my blog.

BalloonFish posted:

After finding that pic of the Roma I ended up reading the wiki article on the R101 again (nearly the 90th anniversary!). Even though I know the story already, the sheer amount of political interference, 'suck it and see', whitewashing and weak leadership in the whole saga is incredible.

It really is. Sometimes the milhist thread talks about cultural factors in Britain that I know very little about, like the "public schoolboy" mindset. I think maybe the whole "soldier on and keep a stiff upper lip" thing might've been a good adaptive mindset at *some* period in British history, but holy poo poo does that not work in aerospace projects. The thing that I find amazing is that so many of the people who were doing the whitewashing and bad leadership in the end agreed to get on the goddamn thing; the technical personal at least must have had a good idea on how badly the dog was hosed.

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Sep 19, 2020

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

BalloonFish posted:

Less politically, the R101 is dogged by the same factors that I outlined in my effortpost in this thread about how British industry (aviation and otherwise) spent most of the 20th century trying to do brilliant things with a fraction of the resources necessary to do them properly. Why build two prototype airships at once? Why decide to put All The New Ideas into one airship all at once to launch your globe-spanning air transport network rather than just applying yourself to getting each idea working at a time (see also: almost every British aircraft built after 1945). To nudge back to the political, it's important to note that the R101 was a project of Britain's first ever Labour (and so first ever vaguely socialist) government, so a lot of those in charge of it at a political level had no direct experience of governance, had a lot of well-intentioned but over-optimistic ideas about how capable government was at doing things like building airships and a very strong desire to prove that their system worked better than that which had gone before. Combine that with the cultural admiration for bumbling amateurs, plugging on against the odds, making the best out of a bad situation and complete deferrence to your social betters and it's a dangerous mixture.

People making decisions that they are unqualified to make I think is a significant factor in the whole sorry saga. Even at the start, you had Air Ministry officials saying "you built the R38 too weak, this time we're going to OVERSIGHT the physical structure" which was not the cause of the R38 wreck. At the same time, the people in the Royal Airship Works who built the R38 while not bothering to think about "aerodynamic forces on the hull" were sent on to the next project. Then you have the fuckery of "let's have a contest, but the judges are also one of the two contestants who for political reasons are unable to concede failure or mistakes in any way." It's very similar to why Canada is surreal in its badness to mil procurement: people with Privilege and Authority are making decisions that in a sensible world they wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near. Google the Hero-class coast guard cutters for this process in action. (TL;DR Canada bought an off-the-shelf design from the Danes that has been used all over the world. Then, they had a bunch of generals and people from the three loving government departments who manage these things make several hundred changes to the design, driving up the cost enormously. Then, when all these changes made the ships overweight, these same geniuses began deleting *other things* from the design, including the ship's stabilizers, which made the resulting boats unusable.)

If you read Neville Shute's autobiography, immediately after finishing his account of the R100/R101, he launches into an impassioned defense of the privilege of vast aristocratic wealth in the UK. One argument he makes is that government bureaucrasts that actually need to worry about their jobs can't be put in positions of great authority, as they just bow to political pressures. It takes someone of immense ancestral wealth in those roles to insist we're doing this the right way, and gently caress you if you fire me, I have a manor house to return to. It boils down to leaning on noblise oblige to make the system work.

The thing that sorta haunts me about Shute's arguments is that he might be right, insofar as the authors of the Westminster Parliamentary democracy are concerned. I don't think it's any sort of stretch that the framers assumed noblise oblige as the grease to make the whole machine work. So when looking at the trumpster fire that is Brexit, or unbelievably dumb poo poo in Canada, I can totally understand why the political systems are malignant and awful: without the assumed 'good people' in the system, and lacking a real democracy, it can only do crash after crash as long as the biggest minority in X number of ridings don't give a poo poo.

BalloonFish posted:

Edit: A quick mental survey suggests you can draw endless parallels between almost any of the great British industrial/political failures. R101. The Groundnuts Scheme. The bungling of the transition from steam to diesel by British Railways (sensibly decide to order a range of loco designs in small numbers to see which features work best so you can standardize them for the mass-produced versions, then before the first of these 'test' designs is even delivered decide that the railways need to improve their public image so just expand the existing pilot orders to hundreds of locos per design, most of which haven't even left the drawing board and some of which are being produced by companies that have never built a diesel locomotive before, with predictably bad results), the collapse of the car and motorcycle industries, the failure of the Hawker-Siddeley Trident. The Millenium Dome. And so on. It would be interesting to see if other similar project failures have happened for similar reasons in other countries, or if it's a uniquely British problem, and if so if it's cultural/social or just baked in due to our economic circumstances.

While you know I love hearing about these fuckups (the rail thread educated me on dumb things in British locomotives) I wouldn't say it's endemic to the UK. For one, I'd say a major component of British industrial failures have to do with far too much money being held by the 0.01% and above, where it is free to be invested overseas instead of at home, resulting in severe undercapitalization. (See this thread discussing shed-based jet airliner manufacture.) Another is that the political class and those same 0.01% are one and the same. If you look at the wilting of Bombardier, I think a major factor of it was knowing (on the part of the people who own Bombardier) that High-Value jobs + the political connection meant the Government was going to protect their investment no matter what. In a world where PM Trudeau tries to get the Justice Minister to interfere in a case where the firm in question has been **banned from doing business internationally**, it seems a safe bet.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Isn't there awfully big assumption in Schute's argument that the nobles actually DO know "the right way" to do something? It's not like Canadian procurement was somehow Good when the aristos were running the show.

Oh, it is, most def. It's not really any argument he makes that worries me. What worries me is that the Westminster government might've been designed with questionable assumptions like these held as true.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

BalloonFish posted:

As was badly exposed last year when it turned out that the Prime Minister can suspend democracy at will and there's no political or legal mechanism to stop him, beyond the implicit assumption that no British PM would be inclined to do so. And that, in the absence of a written constitution, the UK's only protections are conventions, politicians not wanting to look bad and 'it's tradition'. When you have a PM and a party who don't give a drat about any of those things they can do pretty much whatever they want.

Yeah, watching that whole thing last year, I remember thinking "isn't this the point where literally the Queen is supposed to step in and start locking people up in the tower?"

As it turns out, the Queen as ultimate authority is very much of a piece with the electoral college in the states: when finally given a chance to justify itself in a crisis, it resolutely ran away from that crisis, proving it was an entirely hollow and useless institution.

BalloonFish posted:

I have read Shute's autobiography, and virtually all his novels - I'd count him as one of my favourite authors and I'd recommend them (especially his aviation-themed ones*) to everyone ITT. But his social/political views were...weird. He was a social (small c)onservative, verging on a sort of proto-Randian libertarian. His experience at Vickers with the R100/101 mess and his tribulations trying to found and run Airspeed made him absolutely detest any sort of government interference and gave him the firm belief that 'men who do' - especially engineers - were best left to their own devices when it came to business and enterprise, which would always shake out as being for the greater good even if it seemed morally dubious.

I can sort of forgive Shute for this. The R100/R101 affair was practically scripted by Andrew Ryan.

I've read "On the Beach" :gonk: and "Trustee from the Toolroom" a novel where an old British master machinist takes on the adventure of smuggling a small hoard of traesure to Australia, where he hooks up with a good-natured native Hawaiian dude who built his own sailboat in Oregon (?) and they sail across the Pacific ocean.

Turns out weevils are snackable protean you get with sacks of cornmeal

Speaking of aviation competition, my facebook feed keeps popping up the news that Airbus is trying out hydrogen turbine powered airliners. Details were a little light, but they seem to have a short range [~1500 km]. The three competition configurations are conventional turboprop, conventional jet, and cool as heck flying wing design.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Xakura posted:

That seems ..unnecessary? Can't you just biofuel a regular jet?

Biofuel is still CO2.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

slidebite posted:

To me, the whole hydrogen economy/hydrogen as a power source is just a non-starter for so many big reasons, I have no idea why it's even still seriously discussed. I know I'm an idiot, but I must be missing something because like a zombie it refuses to die and keeps coming up.

The only way I even see the slightest bit of potential is like ^^ says, if Nuclear becomes the primary way to make electricity.. but so many of the "CLEAN HYDROGEN FUEL" supporters are irrationally rabid anti-nuclear it just makes me :psyduck:


Elviscat posted:

But it's NET zero carbon emissions, because the plants you plant to replace the ones you made into biofuel and burned will absorb an equal quantity of carbon as emitted by the first plants, or the plants already absorbed the carbon they will later emit from the atmosphere.

I also don't know why people keep pushing hydrogen, it's loving impossible to store, since it will not only diffuse through the pressure vessel it's stored in, but embrittle it in the process, and it has to be stored at pressures that make it explodey as gently caress if the pressure vessel fails.

That, plus it's normally produced either directly from fossil fuels, or from fossil fueled electric plants, and if you're producing it with 30% efficient electricity, then burning it in a 30% efficient hydrogen turbine, giving you a net 9% overall thermal efficiency from the initial energy source.

These are all good objections.

My answer to all of them is "you don't make friends with salad"

I was wondering how they were going to handle hydrogen storage, too, since super-high pressure vessels seem like a less safe bigger deal than anybody would really like to cop to. As for why this way, let me devil's advocate here, (because I know less about this than the two quoted posters): biofuel is problematic because it impinges on the global food supply unless you start giant algae farms in unusable deserts, and some people treat net zero propulsion as scarcely better than running your turbines on coal. Assuming you can get the technology to work*, then hydrogen steps aside all these problems.

Also in a world where the worst car company still is worth more than Ford, clearly adapting the "technology so advanced it is indistinguishable from a scam" is a useful trait**

*never before has one asterisk done so much work

**But airbus isn't a normal private corporation? Huh, I guess it's an exercise in seeing if the suppliers can do it

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Platystemon posted:

guys

guys what if

guys what if we took that hydrogen and chained it to something else? Carbon makes some god-tier bonds with itself and I bet we could get those cats to stick together and liquify at reasonable temperatures and pressures. Such molecules would also be large and not leak through every seal we manufacture.

Sagebrush posted:

goddamn, imagine the energy density if you could bind up hydrogen and liquefy it like that! and i mean the chemistry suggests that it'll be a little poisonous, but nothing you couldn't take care of with gloves and a respirator, and you could just carry all that energy around in a fuckin bucket, man

:rolleyes:

Sure, instead of fuel that flows because it is pressurized, all we have to do is wrap our whole fuel system in heating elements to make sure the paraffin stays liquid

VV promote this man

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Sep 23, 2020

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Warbird posted:

That's a bunch of weird lookin' buzzards friend

I'm picturing a truck full of...Ikea furniture, crashed and smashed open

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Tests of love and acceptance of aeronautical insanity: will your significant other tolerate this purchase?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

New Canadian SAR aircraft delivery flight

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I didn't see this here, so let me post it:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-will-consolidate-787-production-in-s-c-leaving-everett-wsj-reports/

So, you have a union plant that does excellent aerospace work, and this non-union plant that you tried and failed to get to do that work for cheaper, and it's done tremendous damage to business and your reputation. What do you do?

Expand the crap plant and abandon the union one, obviously

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Phanatic posted:

2. The union plant hasn't exactly been covering itself with glory, either. The KC-46s have had tons of FOD and QC gripes.

Move "guy in the tail" to "guy in a cockpit with a bespoke 3d computer miracle visual system" may be the single worst political pork barrel in the past...20 years?

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Godholio posted:

It takes 25+ years of gross mismanagement to end up in a situation like this.

Agreed. I'd say the "like sears" comment is going to be eerily apt as this dumpster fire continues

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