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Rolling Nuns
Jul 16, 2006
Watch 'em go!

Hellequin posted:

...got at the root of the idealism (bringing rock music onto a similar level of artistic development of say 20th century classical or period jazz) and cut out the fantastical lyrics bullshit and general pretentiousness of the British scene...

If anyone did this, it wasn't the Krautrock bands (really? Neu? lol don't insult 20th century classical like that), it was the more advanced RIO bands like Univers Zero and Art Zoyd, who practically made 20th century classical music.

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Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

Hellequin posted:

I mean have you really listened to the lyrics of Yes?

There's someone around on SA who has a Yes avatar with the text "Flying shining purple wolfhound, show me where you are." I thought that was a great parody of Jon Anderson's lyrical style, until I later realized that's actually a line from Yours is No Disgrace. That said, even if it is all pseudo-mystical gibberish, Yes's lyrics in the '70s were at least pretty, well-crafted pseudo-mystical gibberish, which is more than a lot of bands could manage.

I guess it's just a matter of taste. I can forgive good music with bad lyrics except in extreme cases (Gong's Shamal album—dear God), but ultimately lyrics aren't vitally important to my enjoyment of music. I'd probably never be able to listen to metal otherwise.

Krautrock seems to me more of an extension of psychedelic rock than prog rock was, or at least a different direction with similar origins. There's the spaciness and hard edge of psychedelic rock, the chaos of free jazz, influences drawn from world music and electronic music, and the notable absence of neoclassicism, though all of these elements are seldom apparent in the same band. It's also kind of a problematic term when used as a genre label, both due to the hugely diverse range of bands that are considered krautrock and the existence of bands that would be considered krautrock if only they were from Germany (High Tide, '72-'74 King Crimson).

Speaking of High Tide, anyone who's a fan of the Cross/Wetton/Bruford era of Crimson needs to have a listen to Sea Shanties. As well as possibly being the heaviest album released in 1969, it's frequently surprisingly similar to what King Crimson would be doing in three years. I have no idea whether they were influenced by High Tide, or if it's just coincidence and any similarities can be explained as the result of both bands having a violinist and baritone vocalist.

Hellequin
Feb 26, 2008

You Scream! You open your TORN, ROTTED, DECOMPOSED MOUTH AND SCREAM!

Rolling Nuns posted:

If anyone did this, it wasn't the Krautrock bands (really? Neu? lol don't insult 20th century classical like that), it was the more advanced RIO bands like Univers Zero and Art Zoyd, who practically made 20th century classical music.

I meant that they were attempting to bring rock to a level of artistic sophistication comparable to 20th century classical or modern jazz, not make 20th century classical or modern jazz. Secondly I like the RIO bands, thirdly what the hell is wrong with Neu?

Rollersnake posted:

High Tide

The violinist ended up in Hawkwind eventually.

Boner Magnet
Aug 11, 2002
:I

Rush released a brand-new single called "Caravan", and it's awesome. Not quite as proggy as they used to be, but still have retained excellent musicianship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9K0ipA9EI

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


Boner Magnet posted:

Rush released a brand-new single called "Caravan", and it's awesome. Not quite as proggy as they used to be, but still have retained excellent musicianship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9K0ipA9EI

...aaand the video's down already!

I'm kind of interested to see if they're still going down the grunge path of Snakes & Arrows. But I love the album already because it's called Clockwork Angels. Seriously, you can't get much cheesier than that.

The Great Aspie
Jan 13, 2006

The idea is if we don't look out the white race will be utterly submerged

Rollersnake posted:

Speaking of High Tide

I stumbled upon them a few weeks ago searching for actual sea shanties for a folk thing I'm doing.

Definitely heavy stuff for its time. Although I hear mostly a jazz fusion ala Mahavishnu sound more than a proto-prog. Miles Davis' In a Silent Way was released in early '69, so maybe that had some influence on these guys.

johnny sack
Jan 30, 2004

One day, this team will play to their expectations...

Just not this year..


I stumbled upon Van der Graaf Generator from last.fm.

I like some of their stuff, I dislike some of it. Peter Hammill, however, sounds just like Rob Halford.

I honestly had to look and see if Halford sang for them prior to Judas Priest.
Compare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WySTWDsgvYs (Hammill)
to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhpGDCInUoc (Halford)


Can anyone recommend me the 'best' Van der Graaf Generator album/songs? I find them to be hit or miss on last.fm. I enjoy the sleepwalkers song I posted above.

Math Rocker
Sep 21, 2003

by Ozma


I'm partial to H To He Who Am The Only One, "Killers" is an awesome track, and the album cover is really cool. But Pawn Hearts has my two favorite songs by them (outside of "Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever"); "Lemmings" and "Man-Erg". The album itself is only 3 songs, the first 2 tracks are each 10 or so minutes, and the third is a 23 minute epic, which I never got into

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

If you like The Sleepwalkers, you might as well check out the rest of Godbluff. I think it's probably their best album overall.

Pawn Hearts I love except for Man-Erg, but only because that brings back uncomfortable memories of high school drama club—specifically this one guy rehearsing a song for a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde musical. I think that's the trouble I have with Peter Hammill's vocal style as a whole—too often there's something very overwrought and Broadway musical about it.

The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome is also a really good album, particularly Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever (Running). Incredibly cumbersome title, but the song builds up well, and has this awesome pulsing bass riff that reminds me of Fischerspooner, or something.

Rollersnake fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2010 around 22:13

Mitthrawnuruodo
Apr 10, 2007

You have no fucking idea how hungry I am

I'm gonna have to check out some of these bands. I like a lot of prog records, but I'm definitely not an aficionado. I usually listen to one album that I really like then forget to get any others by a band before I find something new.

For instance, I like Gentle Giant's Acquiring the Taste a lot, but haven't heard any other GG. I've only heard Aqualung and Thick as a Brick (which is one of the best albums ever). I've only heard King Crimson's first record, and only then because Steven Wilson had remixed it - I'm a huge Wilson fan, Fear of a Blank Planet's my favourite record. Can highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't heard Porcupine Tree.

Fatewarns
Aug 10, 2003
Eater of third world virgins.

I'm cosigning on all the krautrock recommendations in this thread. Not just for the best known ones like Can (Tago Mago), Faust(their self-titled), and Tangerine Dream (their first four albums) who definitely were among the most revolutionary bands at the time, but there are a ton of lesser known bands who made albums that were just as classic and unique as the big-name kraut bands.

Embryo were easily one of the most creative and least-acknowledged bands. Their modus operandi was to fuse together various forms of traditional ethnic music around the world with their own brand of psychedelic jazz fusion. On the earliest albums like Opal and Rache, their propensity to fuse world music genres wasn't in full bloom yet, but they were still putting out extremely solid Krautrock with jazzy flourishes, sounding similar to bands like Xhol Caravan. My favorite album from this era is Rache.

From then on, they would add more and more ethnic influences to their music, starting with Father, Son and Holy Ghosts and Steig Aus, which is generally considered as their best. They've made many, many albums since then (33 total) and I consider most of them to be extremely good (except for Surfin', which still had its moments) although their most recent albums are more likely to interest people who are into their world music side instead of their kraut side, as they steadily became more and more of a world fusion band. My favorite album from this era is Istanbul Casablanca, which is a double-disc live album featuring tracks with extended erhu jams with Indian konakkol serving as backup vocals, among other things.

(other bands to be mentioned later; Brainticket, Etron fou Leloublan, Stormy Six, and Pierrot Lunaire.)

TheForgotton
Jun 10, 2001

I'm making a career of evil.

I've got a challenge for all you Progtologists:

I do a prog radio show that just happens to fall on the 4th of July this year. Aside from Song For America by Kansas and the Yes version of the Simon and Garfunkle hit America, I'm having a hard time putting together a playlist. There's a Pain of Salvation track from Scarsick that might work in the same way that people play Born in the USA or American Woman.

Any ideas?

edit: just remembered The Voyager by Pendragon.

TheForgotton fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2010 around 15:46

The Great Aspie
Jan 13, 2006

The idea is if we don't look out the white race will be utterly submerged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg9jHTYZ-6U

The Great Aspie
Jan 13, 2006

The idea is if we don't look out the white race will be utterly submerged

lol, Asia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_394sYUc358

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

Art Bears - The Song of Investment Capital Overseas

Meat Beat Agent
Aug 5, 2007

felonious assault with a sproinging boner

Play the whole second side of Absolutely Free by the Mothers.

TheForgotton
Jun 10, 2001

I'm making a career of evil.

Score! It turns out that the program director had a British Rock of the 60's compilation with the studio version of this track. Also, I didn't realize that Keith Emerson did the dagger trick back with the Nice. What a maniac!

Attitude Indicator
Apr 3, 2009




I forgot to tell a joke...


This site is pretty good for digging around and finding stuff to try.

https://www.progarchives.com

Jorghnassen
Oct 1, 2007
Glouton des fjords

Attitude Indicator posted:

This site is pretty good for digging around and finding stuff to try.

https://www.progarchives.com

Hehe, the only prog album I ever listen to (outside of Pink Floyd) is #14 on their top list... Harmonium is underrated.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

Jorghnassen posted:

Hehe, the only prog album I ever listen to (outside of Pink Floyd) is #14 on their top list... Harmonium is underrated.

I love Harmonium. I had never heard of them prior to reading Progarchives, and they're still probably the best discovery I've made through that site.

TheForgotton
Jun 10, 2001

I'm making a career of evil.

Here's my interview with Yogi of RPWL if anyone's interested. They'll be playing at Calprog this year.

turnip kid
May 24, 2010


My favorite prog bands fall within the Canterbury Scene.

I'm going to tell you to promptly look into getting into Caravan. They're by far my favorite of all the groups just based on If I Could Do it All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You.

One of the most perfect albums I've ever listened to.

If you need something zanier, listen to Gong... particularly, Camembert Electrique.

KevinHeaven
Aug 26, 2008

I run the voodoo down

You know I might get crucified for saying this, but I think Genesis' Duke album is pretty decent. I like the blend of pop and prog with the hint of soul that is present in some of the songs. "Behind The Lines," "Duchess," "Duke's Travels," "Duke's End," "Cul-De-Sac," and especially the forgotten "Man Of Our Times" all have progressive elements that make Duke a decent album.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

KevinHeaven posted:

You know I might get crucified for saying this, but I think Genesis' Duke album is pretty decent. I like the blend of pop and prog with the hint of soul that is present in some of the songs. "Behind The Lines," "Duchess," "Duke's Travels," "Duke's End," "Cul-De-Sac," and especially the forgotten "Man Of Our Times" all have progressive elements that make Duke a decent album.

It is a good album—Misunderstanding is just lovely enough to drag down the album as a whole, much like Follow You, Follow Me on And Then There Were Three. Behind the Lines, Duchess, Guide Vocal, Turn It On Again, Duke's Travels, and Duke's End form the "Duke Suite," which I believe was originally intended to be together on the album.

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007


a very unhappy baby whale



Duke is a great Genesis album. Anyone who thinks the departure of Peter Gabriel instantly made Genesis go astray gets ignored by me pretty quickly.

I think on all Genesis albums the songs written together tend to be the better ones, but it's quite interesting to look at which songs Phil wrote by himself on the later albums, as they're usually the stinkers (like the aforementioned "Misunderstanding").

I also think it's silly to argue that Genesis "stopped" being progressive at any point - sure they started making more mainstream music, but then so did Peter Gabriel and a lot of the other "prog" bands. Even on the last two Genesis albums when they had completely "sold out" there's tracks like "Driving the Last Spike", "Dreaming While You Sleep" and "The Dividing Line" which keep the old Genesis feel while truly "progressing" stylistically.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

You haven't really suffered through Misunderstanding until you've heard it on Three Sides Live. I want to strangle Phil for that.

Machinae
Aug 15, 2004


I've been combing the thread and prog archives for good prog metal recommendations, but I haven't really been able to find anything that caught my ear and I thought I'd fish for some suggestions.

Lately I've been listening to Ayreon, Avantasia, Cynic, Symphony X, lots of Andromeda, Pain of Salvation, and Vanden Plas.

Surprisingly I wasn't into Guilt Machine, and I love Ayreon, so that was a huge let down.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I like the softer side of prog too in the vein of Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Marillion and the like, but I find if I don't specify 'prog metal' I get music that is a little old school for my tastes.

Machinae fucked around with this message at Jun 30, 2010 around 03:19

BSchlang
Mar 27, 2009


Machinae posted:

I've been combing the thread and prog archives for good prog metal recommendations, but I haven't really been able to find anything that caught my ear and I thought I'd fish for some suggestions.

Lately I've been listening to Ayreon, Avantasia, Cynic, Symphony X, lots of Andromeda, Pain of Salvation, and Vanden Plas.

Surprisingly I wasn't into Guilt Machine, and I love Ayreon, so that was a huge let down.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I like the softer side of prog too in the vein of Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Marillion and the like, but I find if I don't specify 'prog metal' I get music that is a little old school for my tastes.

Since you mentioned Guilt Machine, I assume you're aware that Arjen Lucassen (Ayreon) has a bunch of side-projects that you might like.

This is basically just a list of my favorite prog-metal without a whole ton of thought thrown into your listed favorite bands, and I'm sure you've already heard most of them before, but here goes:

Opeth
Tiamat
Katatonia (not exactly prog, but if you like Opeth then their newer albums might really appeal to you)
Devin Townsend
Dream Theater
Mastodon
Aeon Spoke (Cynic side-project)

Machinae
Aug 15, 2004


BSchlang posted:

Since you mentioned Guilt Machine, I assume you're aware that Arjen Lucassen (Ayreon) has a bunch of side-projects that you might like.

This is basically just a list of my favorite prog-metal without a whole ton of thought thrown into your listed favorite bands, and I'm sure you've already heard most of them before, but here goes:

Opeth
Tiamat
Katatonia (not exactly prog, but if you like Opeth then their newer albums might really appeal to you)
Devin Townsend
Dream Theater
Mastodon
Aeon Spoke (Cynic side-project)

I figured I'd leave out the huge cliches like Mastodon, Dream Theater and Opeth. I never "got" Devin Townsend, and I listened to Katatonia years ago and again just recently and I don't love it.

Checking out Tiamat and Aeon Spoke though.

edit: The Tiamat I found seemed pretty monotonous to me, but I'm liking Aeon Spoke (though not so prog or metal). I am too picky.

Machinae fucked around with this message at Jun 30, 2010 around 05:21

RexDart
Apr 13, 2003



From the albums mentioned here, I think 90% of the people in this thread would love Kayak's See See the Sun. It doesn't go outside the box much, but it's a great representative of early 70's prog as a whole.

starless posted:

So far In The Court of, Lizard, and Red have been released. Hopefully they intend to release the rest of their catalouge.

I have the remastered Red, and the sound improvement is huge. My old CD issue of ITCOTCK just sounds awful after listening to the remastered Red, even accounting for the lower levels in older style mixing. I really should pick up the remaster.

Running With Spoons posted:

I love the Canterbury Scene.

“The real essence of 'Canterbury Sound' is the tension between complicated harmonies, extended improvisations, and the sincere desire to write catchy pop songs.”
“In the very best Canterbury music...the musically silly and the musically serious are juxtaposed in an amusing and endearing way.”


The easiest band to get into would be Caravan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW_KztxNuJM

Most of the songs you'll find on youtube are their catchiest and most pop songs, so that might turn off some of the people in this thread, but everyone should really check out, at the very least, In The Land of the Grey and Pink

Land of Grey and Pink, Rotters' Club, and National Health pretty much covers as much territory in Cantebury prog as necessary for anyone who wants a taste of it. If I could own only three records from that scene it would be those. The common element in all three of those albums is competent drumming, which seems to make a world of difference in that genre. That said, my biggest gripe about that subgenre is the often meandering, directionless vocals, and there's plenty of that on Rotter's Club, though I still recommend it.

I always thought Camel's instrumental record The Snow Goose counted as part of that scene too, and that's worth hearing though it falters near the end. I don't know if Gong's Radio Gnome Invisible trilogy counts in there, I might recommend it but it's really inconsistent -- the first two parts are much better than the last, but even they are rather mixed experiences.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

RexDart posted:

From the albums mentioned here, I think 90% of the people in this thread would love Kayak's See See the Sun. It doesn't go outside the box much, but it's a great representative of early 70's prog as a whole.


I have the remastered Red, and the sound improvement is huge. My old CD issue of ITCOTCK just sounds awful after listening to the remastered Red, even accounting for the lower levels in older style mixing. I really should pick up the remaster.


Land of Grey and Pink, Rotters' Club, and National Health pretty much covers as much territory in Cantebury prog as necessary for anyone who wants a taste of it. If I could own only three records from that scene it would be those. The common element in all three of those albums is competent drumming, which seems to make a world of difference in that genre. That said, my biggest gripe about that subgenre is the often meandering, directionless vocals, and there's plenty of that on Rotter's Club, though I still recommend it.

I always thought Camel's instrumental record The Snow Goose counted as part of that scene too, and that's worth hearing though it falters near the end. I don't know if Gong's Radio Gnome Invisible trilogy counts in there, I might recommend it but it's really inconsistent -- the first two parts are much better than the last, but even they are rather mixed experiences.

I don't consider You weaker than the rest of the trilogy at all. Sure there's nothing as hilarious as I Am Your Pussy or Prostitute Poem, but Master Builder and A Sprinkling of Clouds are among their best ever pieces and are just essential space rock—The Ozric Tentacles seem to have based their entire sound on them.

Also it's no longer a trilogy, as Shapeshifter, Zero to Infinity, and 2032 are considered parts 4, 5, and 6—though Shapeshifter was only labeled part 4 after the fact and doesn't really explicitly follow the "storyline," such as it is.

turnip kid
May 24, 2010


I think Camembert Electrique is better than the albums in the Radio Gnome Trilogy. It's a wild, fun LP that never slows down and "You Can't Kill Me" might be my favorite song of all time. It's also a lot more cohesive than their other stuff IMO.

Gong rules. Caravan rules. Also be sure to listen to Kevin Ayers' Joy of a Toy... though I guess that's not necessarily prog so much as it's Syd Barrett-esque pop whimsy.

turnip kid fucked around with this message at Jul 1, 2010 around 02:28

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.

Honestly, all of the Daevid Allen-era Gong stuff is good, except for maybe Continental Circus (forgettable film soundtrack) and the Gongmaison Live at the Fridge DVD (I think this was intended to be a "dance music" project, but it just sounds like Gong with a bad drummer).

If you're a fan of fusion and/or melodic percussion, it's well worth exploring Pierre Moerlen's Gong. Even though they weren't called Pierre Moerlen's Gong until Downwind, Gazeuse! and Expresso II are basically the same group. Expresso II and Leave It Open are probably their most consistently good albums, though the opening suite of Time is the Key is absolutely loving excellent—like a lost Mike Oldfield epic. And speaking of Mike Oldfield, he plays lead guitar on Downwind. Just avoid Breakthrough like the plague—it's a cheesy, horrible album, and I think Pierre Moerlen must have been a Scientologist at the time, as one track has L. Ron Hubbard lyrics.

Shamal, the first album after Daevid and Gilli left, is a weird transitional album that's closer to classic Gong than the Pierre Moerlen era—it's kinda like Mike Howlett's Gong, with Mr. Howlett taking on the roles of vocalist and (absolutely awful) lyricist. Still, the instrumental pieces are fantastic.

Zuhzuhzombie!!
Apr 17, 2008
FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR

Had some Soft Machine - Third playing on the way to work today. First two tracks are usually what I listen to before I get my fix and change out to something else, so instead I put it on Moon in June and Out Bloody Rageous instead.

Robert Wyatt sings some great melodies.


EDIT


I think I'm one of the few people who prefer Caravan's If I Could Do It All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You over their other stuff.

turnip kid
May 24, 2010


I repped that Caravan album a few posts up. loving perfect IMO.

Zuhzuhzombie!!
Apr 17, 2008
FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR

Yeah. I dunno what about it that makes me favorite it more than their others. Seems more natural and mystical and fun.

turnip kid
May 24, 2010


I'd put In The Land of Grey and Pink up there with it just for "Nine Feet Underground," (It is over 20 minutes long, so it really kind of does make the LP worth the price of admission; the short tracks are great as well) but If I Could... genuinely sounds perfect front to back. The "For Richard" suite is EPIC and "And I Wish I Were Stoned" is just beyond words.

Also big fan of Waterloo Lily, though apparently it's not as popular. The title track is one of my favs. in their catalog. Oh, and "Songs and Signs." That little song is ingenious. I love the medieval-sounding harmonizing vocals.

Gimmedaroot
Aug 10, 2006

America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.
-Barack Obama

For Canterbury bands, I really like Camel. Moonmadness is a killer album, and I can see where Air got their influences from. I know the Snow Goose gets all the press, but Moonmadness is just a great chillout album.

Soft Machine is also nice. I used to write off the albums after Robert Wyatt left but I like them more and more now. The stuff right after he left like 5 and 6 are great jazz albums, but getting around 1976 they actually started to sound like Pink Floyd circa Wish You Were Here. There was a song I heard recently that was a lot like Shine On You Crazy Diamond. I know they were friends with the band earlier, but by this point there may have been one original member left.

As for Genesis, I don't draw the line after Peter Gabriel left, but after Steve Hackett left. Not because they went mainstream pop, but because they just don't interest me anymore.

And to anyone who has only heard Porcupine Tree and not King Crimson (specifically 73-84), I can only shake my head. Its like someone being into Green Day and never having heard The Ramones, or more so The Sword and not Black Sabbath. They just wouldn't exist.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are.

You are destiny.


I never heard of King Crimson until a few months ago, that's my excuse. They've been groovin' on my Grooveshark for some time now, though.

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Incoherence
May 22, 2004

TOGETHER WE ARE STRONG


Gimmedaroot posted:

And to anyone who has only heard Porcupine Tree and not King Crimson (specifically 73-84), I can only shake my head.
Among other things. (The single edit doesn't really do justice to the amount of "borrowing" from Animals.)

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