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Also glad I found this thread. For someone wanting to know what to buy after "In The Court of the Crimson King", buy "In the Wake of Poseidon". Instead of the rehash that some say it is, I see it as part 2. Court is about war, Wake is about peace. Some even prefer it to Court, but I say they both go together nicely, and is the last thing Greg Lake sings on. There will be a new reissue this fall with a 5.1 mix. My biggest problem with prog rock is the new stuff. I just can't get into bands like Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Fates Warning, etc. I just agree with Bill Bruford: the pioneers come along and invent the stuff by not really having any boundaries. Then when the genre is named, you have all these boundaries and everything just sounds like an overproduced rehash of whats come before that is not as interesting. Radiohead and The Flaming Lips I would give a pass to because they have other influences (if you are to call them prog). And most modern prog metal and symphonic stuff just sounds silly, not to mention the "Legend of the Seeker" outfits they tend to wear on stage. If you don't know what I mean, pick up a copy of Classic Rock magazine's Prog issues. Its really ridiculous. Also, back when he released his solo album on Fripp's label (around 1999), John Paul Jones said it was fine to call Zeppelin prog. Anyone listen to any Rock In Opposition like Henry Cow and Art Bears?
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May 14, 2010 19:00
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Dishwasher posted:A prog thread? I thought I was the only one who realized this board was missing one! I don't listen to Genesis and Yes all the time. When I listen to newer bands, I don't listen to those modern prog bands that I listed before. However, you totally missed what I am talking about. As for the King Crimson remasters, I have the 3 that are out now, and they sound fantastic. Steve Wilson did an excellent job, and the surround sound is mind blowing. Get them, and get a player that plays DVD-As. Its not the pomposity, its the sterility of the recordings of modern prog bands that I hate. Its like everyone nowadays tends to have that cold crunchy Momentary Lapse of Reason/Division Bell/Talk/Union production. Its a very clinical production and playing style that sounds like Berklee College of Music students trying to play on crappy equipment. I like mellotrons, not those awful samplers. If you listen to Rick Wakeman play Close to the Edge on Moogs in the 70s, and say, they synths he used on Keys to the Ascension, you will understand what I am talking about. All of the neo prog bands sound like this but without really pushing anything forward. If those bands were trying harder, like you said, they would be doing something different and actually pushing further...not doing the same thing on newer and worse sounding equipment.
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May 15, 2010 05:59
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For Canterbury bands, I really like Camel. Moonmadness is a killer album, and I can see where Air got their influences from. I know the Snow Goose gets all the press, but Moonmadness is just a great chillout album. Soft Machine is also nice. I used to write off the albums after Robert Wyatt left but I like them more and more now. The stuff right after he left like 5 and 6 are great jazz albums, but getting around 1976 they actually started to sound like Pink Floyd circa Wish You Were Here. There was a song I heard recently that was a lot like Shine On You Crazy Diamond. I know they were friends with the band earlier, but by this point there may have been one original member left. As for Genesis, I don't draw the line after Peter Gabriel left, but after Steve Hackett left. Not because they went mainstream pop, but because they just don't interest me anymore. And to anyone who has only heard Porcupine Tree and not King Crimson (specifically 73-84), I can only shake my head. Its like someone being into Green Day and never having heard The Ramones, or more so The Sword and not Black Sabbath. They just wouldn't exist.
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Jul 9, 2010 00:44
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Oh dear god...that is just wrong. Its one thing to be influenced by someone, its another thing to just blatantly rip someone off. That cut was "Dogs", thru and thru. I thought it was bad when I heard Tool do "46 and 2" because it was just an angrier version of Crimson's "Frame By Frame" but "Time Flies" is just flat out plagiarism. And to the guy who thought Keith Emerson was a maniac because of the dagger trick, you must not have even heard about the time he burned the American flag onstage.
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Jul 9, 2010 03:34
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New on new music for King Crimson fans: There is an album tentatively coming out in April for a new "almost" King Crimson album. Jakko M. Jakszyk, who was in the 21st Century Schizoid Band (which was made of members of Crimson plus Jakko during the first four ie. Peter Sinfield albums). Mel Collins (from In The Wake of Poseidon, Lizard, Islands, and 21st Century Schizoid Band) Robert Fripp Tony Levin Gavin Harrizon (Porcupine Tree and the brief 2008 live version of KC) I also didn't know that Harrison and Jakszyk worked together before Porcupine Tree. This sounds like a great lineup, but Fripp in his diaries says its not quite King Crimson. It will likely be a Frakctal project. To me, it'll be King Crimson. I have been waiting for a new version for ages. I think the Belew version has worn itself out, and was grateful to have see them in 1995 and 2008, but like the others, I'm ready for something different. Tony Levin on bass will be the only American in this band. The album will be called "A Scarcity of Miracles", but so far JFC is the only name for the band. Fripp is worried about the baggage of calling it King Crimson. I hope he changes his mind, releases it, then tours. He's very happy with the material, according to his online diary. Stereo and surround mixes coming as well. Wow, a new Crimson related project, and Game of Thrones on HBO. Nerdgasm!
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Jan 15, 2011 20:33
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teen bear posted:Wow I'm very excited for this. This link is to Fripp's most recent comments on the new album from Dec. 15th: http://dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?artist=&show=&member=3&entry=18783 I would love a band bringing all the styles together from In the Court all the way thru the most recent reunion. Gavin Harrison is up there with Bruford for me, Tony Levin is probably my favorite bassist, Mel playing flute and sax is always great, and you have Fripp and Jakko both on guitar. So many possibilities. Lark's Tongues in Aspic should be re-released in 5.1 surround sometime this year, along with Starless and Bible Black, before the Adrian Belew period comes out. I'm really enjoying the new reissues, the sound quality is amazing and the surround is great and trippy. I have more than just Pink Floyd to listen to spinning all around me thru the speakers!
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Jan 16, 2011 01:33
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teen bear posted:If this results in any kind of tour I will be ecstatic. Night and day. The original mixes are included for the purists, along with the stereo and surround remixes done by Steve Wilson of Porcupine Tree. Its worth it for the surround mixes, songs like "Cat Food" from In The Wake of Poseidon are as entertaining as Money on Dark Side of the Moon's 5.1 reissue. It makes a huge difference sound quality wise as well as the trippy surround sound. As for a tour, Fripp said that the JFC project almost manifested in a tour after the west coast dates were called off for the last Belew-Levin-Fripp-Mastelotto-Harrison lineup, which I flew to NYC just to see. The Jakko-Fripp-Collins-Levin-Harrison King Crimson "Projekct" was close to setting up a tour of the UK and Spain. However as he said in his diary, he felt there were other things to do such as legal rangling with record companies over royalties, the tour with Theo Travis, performing with the Orchestra of Crafty Guitars, and the recent solo Soundscapes performance at the World Financial Center. The last of those made him feel like it wouldn't be his last performance like he thought it might be, so he may still do something, but not in the near future. I hope the JFC album does well enough to at least do a show or two (Royal Albert Hall?) and they film it. I really like my 21st Century Schizoid Band dvd since you won't catch those guys playing anymore, especially the stuff from the Sinfield period.
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Jan 17, 2011 11:47
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Random thoughts: I rather enjoy the new Yes album, I'm trying not to let Geoff Downes' diary mess it up for me...what an rear end in a top hat. My favorite songs are "Sad Night at the Airfield" (sounds like late period Pink Floyd) and "Hour of Need" (has Oliver Wakeman sounding like his dad, and the lute reminds me of "Your Move"). But Downes' keys that do that Asia style-trumpet blare still sound cheesy as hell. I love the King Crimson Projekct "Scarcity of Miracles". It especially sounds great in 5.1 surround with all of those Fripp soundscapes swirling around you. I really wish this band would've toured. I never thought Union was as horrible as everyone said. I saw the tour on my 20th birthday and it was an amazing show. I certainly thought the album was better than anything that came after it. There were parts of were nice, like Steve Howe's solo guitar playing in one of the songs, but the rest was bland as hell. The band screwed up big time by axing Howe, Bruford and Wakeman to make the "Talk" album, and they never really recovered. A true Union album and tour afterwards would've been great with real collaborations. Oh, but as for "Saving My Heart", and ABWH's "Teakbois", Yes really needs to stay away from the Caribbean. Steve Wilson gave an interview recently, promoting his new album and the new remixes he did for Aqualung(!). He said just what I've been saying for years and why I can't get into neo-prog or even prog metal: prog these days is missing the key ingredient of the old days which is jazz. It just sounds cold without it. Speaking of which, if anyone is into the old Canterbury prog rock, Steve Wilson's remix of Caravan's "The Land of Pink and Grey" is a must have. I listened to it in 5.1 and the side long track "Underground" was fantastic. Wilson is the man. I'm still waiting on my new mixes of "Discipline" and "Starless and Bible Black"...Oct 1st I believe. When "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" comes out, I hope they have lots of video footage because they say getting the rights to it is what has held up the release. I need to see more Jamie Muir in action! Nice Jon Anderson interview. To answer one question, De La Soul sampled "Ritual". And the song is pretty strange sounding. Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Aug 26, 2011 |
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Aug 26, 2011 12:05
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JAMOOOL posted:I dunno, I really thought that album was pretty horrible. Obviously this is a group with some real talent but it's not exciting and it's not really soothing, it just occupies this middle-ground "nothing" space for me, nothing memorable and everything exactly the same. Given that's only from a few listens on headphones but I just didn't find the material interesting at all. I know Fripp is in his mid-60's but I wish that just one more time, he could reach back and do something incredible again. It takes a few listens to get into "Scarcity". I know lots of people were expecting "Islands" meets "Discipline" because of the lineup, but I like the laid back feel of it. Fripp was still trying to appeal to Tool fans with the last two Crimson albums that to me they felt forced, which is why "Power To Believe II" was my fav track on that album...it was mellow but played with feeling. I understand if people don't like soprano sax, which Mel seemed to play exclusively on Scarcity. It would've been nice to have heard a flute at least. You know, I forgot about the light bluesy feel. Wakeman does play some bluesy-gospel-ey organ on Roundabout (his solo after the quiet breakdown) and he was not into jamming jazz style at all. Squire admitted ripping off basslines from Larry Graham of Sly and the Family Stone (listen to Sly's "Dance to the Music" and Siberian Khatru, during the first verse). Those Yes hits were fun and poppy and funky at times, not just technically complex. It makes more sense that they went pop in the 80's, but the music press would have you believe the difference between 70s and 80s Yes was the equivalent of Henry Cow going hip hop. As for Wakeman's politics, yes he is a Tory now. Which is funny because one of my favorite quotes from him during an interview at the start of the Union tour was: "I knew I was in trouble when I saw your Dan Quayle watch!" The old interviews were great. Fripp kinda came off a bit pretentious, but also very weird. I love his Cameron Crowe interviews where he talks about low level magic and spell casting.
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Aug 27, 2011 02:16
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Speaking of Fuschia, there seemed to be a Gormenghast craze in prog back in the 70s. There was the 1969 band Titus Groan, with songs Fuschia and "The Hall of Bright Carvings". And The Strawbs, Rick Wakeman's band before Yes had a song called Lady Fuschia. The Gormenghast craze was bigger in the UK than in the US, almost as big as Tolkien.
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Aug 30, 2011 23:52
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keratas posted:Has anyone bought the Pink Floyd remasters/magic voodoo editions yet? I agree. I have the Discovery discs for Animals (sounds better), The Wall, and Ummagumma. I'm not a fan of the cardboard/paper sleeves that these cds come in, which make them impossible to return. THe sound quality is the only reason I may revisit more of these. I also got the Immersion 6 disc set of Dark Side of the Moon. Its not as good or as well put together as the King Crimson "Court of the Crimson King" collector's box set, but it has some interesting things on it. There were too many things in the DSOTM set that were already released, like the "making of documentary". Loads of other stuff were out on bootleg that were not really improved upon much. I have the 5.1 James Guthrie mix on SACD, so to have it on dvd and blu ray was redundant to say the least. But if you are new to this stuff, I say get it because they are cheaper than they have been in the past and, depending on if you have this stuff already, may be an improvement in sound...important to a band like this.
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Oct 2, 2011 23:44
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Just found out Rick Wakeman might be in a power trio with Tony Levin on bass. Tony just finished with an all improv trio that Alan White played on. Makes me think Tony misses the hell out of Bruford. Hell, who doesn't?
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Feb 20, 2012 23:35
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Apparently Steve Wilson just finished the 5.1 and stereo mixes for King Crimson's "Three Of A Perfect Pair". Now that it, "Beat", and "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" are finished, I am just waiting for the release date. That will complete Wilson's work with Crimson, and Jakko Jakzyk should be doing "Thrak" if he hasn't finished already. I assume it will be released with "Power To Believe" and "ConstruKction of Light", whenever those get worked on.
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Mar 21, 2012 04:37
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Robert Fripp always said that an album was like a love letter, and a concert was like a "hot date". Having seen that Thrak tour back in 95, I can attest to that. The album was simply ok, but that concert was a monster. My head was ripped open.
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Mar 25, 2012 00:19
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That's really too bad because Evening Star is my fav of the Fripp and Eno albums. Truly beautiful. I had a boot somewhere of Fripp and Eno performing live in France in a cathedral. Apparently some people during the tour walked out because they were expecting a rock show. There are clips on youtube, but they are incorrectly titled 1979 when I am positive it was from 1975.
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Mar 25, 2012 21:23
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I like TAAB2 as well, I've only listened to the 5.1 mix and Steve Wilson did another spectacular job with the surround. Its nice to hear Ian Anderson basically doing a Jethro Tull album with an old school vibe with hammond organ, glockenspiel, etc rather than cheesy newer synth sounds. I'm even tempted to go to the show this fall where he plays both versions...
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Apr 6, 2012 22:21
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Rollersnake posted:
You aren't a bad prog fan. I don't care for neo-prog either. There just aren't enough hooks in new prog. I can't hum a melody or anything by the newer bands. They just all seem to be playing AT me with no sense of dynamics. Most classic prog, seem to have lots of catchy hooks, and I never have a problem with metal bands from any era. But something about Dream Theater and the other new stuff just doesn't hit me. It was technically impressive, but I also tend to like that old school prog formula of mixing classical, jazz, folk, and sometimes even a bit of funk (Cross Eyed Mary, the middle of Echoes, Elephant Talk) in my prog rock stew. The newer bands aren't as experimental with mixing genres. Massive Attack's Mezzanine seems to do a better example of what I like about older prog rock.
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Apr 15, 2012 20:11
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I pre-ordered that mega set. Its about $140 from Burning Shed, $120 from the US branch of DGM, but their service is notoriously bad/slow, so I got it from Burning Shed. There's gonna be lots of crazy improv jams with Jamie Muir, and I couldn't pass that up. That said, there will still be the cheaper $20 cd/dvd-a set for the casual fan/newbie.
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Aug 18, 2012 19:42
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Its not from 1973, but 1972 when Jamie Muir was with in band, and the improvs were VERY different from The Great Deceiver box set. Muir was a madman on percussion, while Bruford more or less held it down. The shows were held in higher regard than after he left, as reviews of the shows pointed out. Fripp wouldn't put it out if they weren't so legendary. 15 discs, but not 15 cds. There is a dvd-a and bluray, each with surround mixes of the album, which I am really excited about. Also a concert in Germany of the 5 piece just before their first major tour. Its not so much of a cash grab. And of course there are the 2 disc sets for the casual listener.
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Aug 20, 2012 16:59
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I was fortunate enough this past Saturday to get the mega box of "Larks Tongues in Aspic" the same day I was to see Ian Anderson perform "Thick As A Brick" 1 and 2. Quite a prog weekend. It was basically Jethro Tull without Martin Barre, and the skits were hilarious. I plan to crank this 5.1 mix soon. I was fortunate to see the live footage on the dvd, with Jamie Muir lurking about, but this was all before he began biting on blood capsules in concert and freaking out the audience.
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Nov 1, 2012 00:17
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Another nice dvd is the "21st Century Schizoid Band" live in Japan, 2002. It has people from the Peter Sinfield years reunited: Ian McDonald, Mel Collins, Peter Giles, Michael Giles. The lead singer and guitarist of the band is Jakko Jakszyk, who was part of last year's King Crimson Projekct with Robert Fripp, Mel Collins, Tony Levin, and Porcupine Tree's Gavin Harrison. They perform songs from In The Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon, and Islands; alongside the McDonald and Giles album plus a couple of new tunes. Instead of opening with soundscapes or frippertronics, the show opens with nice ambient washes of mellotron sounds. Later live albums by the band have Ian Wallace on drums, and they perform more tracks from Lizard.
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Nov 11, 2012 22:58
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Rick Wakeman approached Fripp recently and told him that if Fripp reformed King Crimson, and announced they would perform "In The Court of the Crimson King" in its entirety, it would sell out the O2, and that Wakeman would be the first in line (queue) for tickets. Fripp stated he simply wasn't interested. He's never been interested in the past. I'm one of the few that actually loved Scarcity of Miracles, and was sad that the tour of Spain with that lineup didn't happen. You KNOW they would've played more than just that album. And with Jakko from the 21st Century Schizoid Band, Mel Collins, Tony Levin, and Gavin Harrison, it would still kick rear end no matter what they played. Belew has been with Crimson longer than I would've liked. He was perfect for the 80's, and I was fortunate to have seen the double trio back in 1995. It was my second time seeing Bruford after the Yes Union tour, and had no desire to see Yes without him. I know Fripp doesn't want to be anything like the current Yes. After watching the Classic Artists dvd interviews, the old lighting man for Yes, Michael Tait, didn't even think the idea of their 2003 arena tour with the Roger Dean setup was a good idea. But with the current lineup he must be in tears.
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Dec 31, 2012 20:48
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I'm enjoying Steve Wilson's 5.1 mix of Hawkwind's "Warrior on the Edge of Time". And its about time that Yes' "Close to the Edge" is finally getting the surround treatment. It comes out the same month I see Hawkwind on tour! The dude is on a roll...
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Jun 28, 2013 21:59
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JAMOOOL posted:The fact that very few prog bands actually have women in them is likely a big part of the problem. Outside of Renaissance I have real trouble naming any prog band with a woman in it. Hopefully it's slowly turning. For old school prog: Curved Air, Pentangle, Trees, Art Bears, and Amon Duul II (if you count Krautrock). Actually these days there are tons of folk/prog/metal bands out there with female singers that look like Nordic fashion models. Pick up any issue of Prog magazine and they always cover these British or Scandinavian bands coming out. Mostly Autumn, Nightwish, Magenta, Kaipa, Blackmore’s Night, Touchstone...the problem is I like the old school bands, but like male dominated neo-prog bands, I just can't get into them. Something cold about it, and none of the songs are catchy.
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Dec 6, 2013 14:40
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 The new King Crimson rehearsals have started, with Jakko and Fripp at the helm.
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Mar 7, 2014 17:08
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I was introduced to Awaken in the best way (for someone who was too young to hear it when it first came out). It was the 1991 Union tour, on my birthday, and the crowd was divided between ABWH fans and Trevor Rabin Yes fans. You could tell the way the applause was going, and the Cinema half of the band was getting a slightly louder reaction from the crowd. You had lots of AOR rock fans who just wanted to hear "Owner of a Lonely Heart", ABWH hippies, and young folks dispersed between the two. I was part of the teen ABWH fans who was getting into "classic rock" ever since Pink Floyd's 1987 return that starting infiltrating those concerts. Even tho I had heard tracks from Fragile as a little kid, and remember "Owner..." being played TO DEATH on MTV, ABWH was my real initiation to Yes thanks to the pay per view special I tuned in for their tour (the one on dvd now). Back to the Union show: this one song, around 12 minutes long came on near the end of the show, and had the entire reserve section, lawn area, people wandering around...everyone was collectively blown away. During the organ and harp slow instrumental section, the lights were flickering us in the face like someone casting a spell on the entire crowd. I can't even describe it. It was the only song I didn't recognize. Thankfully this old hippie told me on the shuttle bus back to the parking lot that it was "Awaken". I was glad to see it on the YesYears box set. All 8 members of the band were giving their all, and was the one song where it wasn't a competition, but a true band working together. The applause seemed to go on forever. I think it converted many people because when the Talk tour happened, and I found out that Howe, Bruford, and Wakeman were not in the band anymore, I wasn't interested. I hated the production, and even tho it was more prog than anything Rabin had done with the band, they ended up playing to empty arenas because so many people were exposed to BWH. Rabin realized this and quit Yes. I was ok with this, and was ready to see Bruford on King Crimson's Thrak tour (in my top 5 best shows of all time).
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Mar 26, 2014 17:25
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Iucounu posted:In Bruford's autobiography (this is a great read by the way) he mentions that the crowd noise on the Union tour was the loudest thing he had ever experienced. I have a signed copy. Actually, it was the ABWH tour when it came to Philly that was the loudest sound he had heard. He compared it to a jet engine before take off. Philly has always been a Yes town (prog in general, and the Grateful Dead), and here they were playing an 18-20k capacity arena going nuts under their own names bunched together to sound like law firm. Bruford and Howe were actually upset that ABWH didn't continue, even tho Howe and Wakeman hated each other. So Anderson and Wakeman are the first to jump on the Yes reunion gravy train. Howe didn't want to play second fiddle to Rabin, and Bruford vs White? Yeah...I'd like to hear White play "Fracture". He wouldn't give Bruford time to shine except for Heart of the Sunrise, which Bruford co wrote.
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Mar 27, 2014 03:29
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Noise Machine posted:A friend of mine took acid and saw one of the double-trio tours. I keep trying to get him to expand but he doesn't remember anything. That's too bad. I was most stoned than I had ever been in my life (which at the time is saying something...think Smokey on "Friday"). But my seat was second row center, and it was one of the loudest shows I've ever been too as well. I understood what the original KC lineup meant when they talked of their first US show back in 1969. The audience was tripping and expecting "King Curtis" and some happy soul music. KC opened with Schizoid Man, and Fripp got the impression of the audience being "crushed". I felt like that myself. There were two rows of musicians on the stage: Back (elevated) row: Pat M. Fripp Bruford Front row: Gunn Belew Levin New rhythm section to our left, old rhythm section on the right, Belew front, Fripp sitting what seemed very high and in the dark. The first two rows of seats were those of us in our teens and twenties. We baffled the older folks sitting behind us who kept asking questions of how we had even heard of King Crimson. The California Guitar Trio opened, and were amazing. It was in a theater, so the acoustics were perfect. The light show was mesmerizing. At the end, Belew and Fripp were laughing onstage after taking their bows, and someone from the audience threw a shoe onstage before they left. Bruford played drums and percussion just like on the Yes tour, with Pat taking the very basic rhythms. The difference was Bruford's enthusiastic playing in Crimson, where he just went thru the motions for Yes (very well tho). I was so glad they put out that same show from the soundboard tapes for sale on Fripp's website. It sounds better than I remember. Crowd was very weird, to say the least. Hippies, alt rock kids, some annoying Italians in dark suits from NYC heckling the audience, cool but swanky jazz folk, uptight but swankier people in tuxedos, and guys who looked like truck drivers smoking weed.
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Mar 27, 2014 15:38
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Nobody Interesting posted:You really must have been stoned if you believe you saw Robert Fripp expressing some kind of emotion. You must not be a fan to think that the man who co-founded "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp" has no emotion, let alone a sense of humor. The dude is hilarious. He just doesn't act like, say, Sebastian Bach-rock dude type.  ^^^^SMILING^^^^ Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 02:21
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Misogynist posted:How could you even tell with his rig directly between him and the audience? That was in 2008. I was lucky enough to be on the far right side of the Nokia Theater in NYC on that tour, and could see him sitting behind the gear, and HE WAS SMILING at Belew. I felt bad for the middle and left sections because he was a hoot. In 1995, he wanted to play Lollapalooza and was reaching out everywhere he could. They were on the HORDE tour and frightened the jam band hippie crowd, which he gets bonus points for doing. 
Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 02:24
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Gianthogweed posted:I saw the double trio too, not quite front row but pretty close. I remember seeing Robert sitting in the back, barely noticeable. It was really quite cool. I was a little disappointed that they didn't play any of the old stuff (the only songs from the 70s they played was Red and Lark's Tongues in Aspic part 2), but it kicked rear end anyway. At the time I loved the Thrak album, but wasn't too hot on the 80s stuff (which I only knew of from the concise king crimson compilation). That concert changed my mind. Now Discipline is one of my favorite albums. It was a very loud concert, I remember my ears ringing afterwards. I started with Discipline, then completed the 80s trilogy and my first fall semester of college, they were releasing the "Definitive Edition" cds. I started with Court, and went in order. I couldn't believe this band wasn't big. They battle Pink Floyd as my favorite band. A year after that, I got to see the League of Crafty Guitarists. Fripp liked our crowd so much, he invited us to stay for the second show for free (with a hand wave, he did request that I sit down because I was applauding so enthusiastically). I really wanted to take those courses. I could've been Trey Gunn!!! But college came first. As for Yes, that ABWH live concert was my introduction, and I was jumping up and down recognizing songs from when I was a toddler. I couldn't believe that was the same Yes that MTV played constantly until our eyes bled. I noticed the music was spacey and ethereal; and wondered if they had anything to do with Pink Floyd and the newly discovered KC. That was how I made the prog connection. ABWH seemed to really be enjoying themselves on that tour. The Union tour was miserable for Bruford and Howe. But I agree: a true 8 man Yes band that wrote and worked together would have been something. According to Wakeman, although it was his favorite tour, he learned that the plan all along was to get Jon back into Yes, and dump BWH. Typical Yes dirty business/politics. Another ABWH tour would've been awesome with a bigger budget. Imagine the Roger Dean stage they could have had! Not too crazy about the 2003 painted inflatables...
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Mar 28, 2014 04:59
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Gianthogweed posted:I remember it was up in the air for awhile. The ABWH lineup released that symphonic album in 1993 so it seemed like there was a still a chance of ABWH coming back. For awhile it seemed like there were two Yeses: YesEast (ABWH) and YesWest (Rabin lineup). My sister's boyfriend called it YesGood and YesBad. Jon was the only member in both lineups, but then there was talk of Wakeman and Rabin working together. Perhaps another Union album? Nope, we got the 80s lineup with Talk. I remember my sister's BF was pissed because he hated the Rabin lineup and wanted to see ABWH again. He refused to buy Talk and it wasn't until many years later that I bought the album. I have to admit that I actually liked it quite a bit, but I actually like Rabin's guitar and songwriting style. I don't much like his voice though, he sounds too much like a generic 80s hard rock singer. After that, Talk sort of fizzled out and Yes went back to their classic AWWHS lineup with Keys to Ascension. I remember this being a dream come true ... until Open Your Eyes came out. The Ladder and Magnification were good though. Yes is such a strange band, it's the only band I know that had two versions of itself competing with each other. The fans were divided too. It was kind of like rooting for your favorite sports team. That Union concert must have been a bit like a Yankees/Redsox game. Nowadays no one really cares and the band's lost a lot of their popularity but in the early 90s Yes was really popular and the fan-base was at war with each other. It actually killed their momentum from which they never recovered after Union. When the Talk tour flopped massively, they knew what people wanted. I listened to it once, sounded generic 80s hard rock like you said. I wasn't interested in them anymore and thought the Keys studio material was bland. Funny how I think the Union tracks that everyone hates so much are more listenable to me than "Talk" and "Keys to the Ascension". Wakeman apparently got into it again with the band (most likely Steve Howe and/or Squire) and only did those shows that they recorded for Keys. They toured without him and got that Igor guy to take Wakeman's place, until he was found molesting a security guard. I never listened to The Ladder, or Open Your Eyes. I gave Symphonic Yes a view when the dvd came out because I heard it was good, and it turned out nicely with Tom Brislen on keyboards. The only arena show I remember them returning to was when Wakeman rejoined the band, and they shot that dvd in Boston. With Anderson's voice getting, in Wakeman's words, "serious serious damage" to his vocal chords from the non stop touring of 2002-2004. That was pretty cruel of the guys to push him like that, then replace him when he was recovering. I did manage to catch the tour with Benoit David since it was turning more into the Drama lineup, with Trevor Horn producing that last album. Even tho ABWHS Yes is my fav, I actually like Drama a lot. I gave them a chance so I could hear Machine Messiah, Tempus Fugit, and Fly From Here live. This time I saw them at the House of Blues, which was bizarre. But when they sacked Benoit for the same reason they toured without Jon, I was finished. I really think their poor business decisions killed people's interest in the band time after time. And to Strap On Revenge: GET THEM! The KC 5.1 mixes are amazing. I was disappointed with Pink Floyd's surround mixes being so conservative, and this from a band that tours (including Waters solo) with a quad setup since the Syd Barrett Azimuth Co-ordinator days. I forgot to mention that at the 2008 KC show in NYC, there were speakers on the side and back for surround, and Fripp's Soundscapes before the show floated around the audience. It wasn't as loud as the 1995 Thrak tour. I hope they stick with the surround setup for the next tour. Three live drums in surround???
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Mar 28, 2014 19:56
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Just a piece for all the Yes/Relayer/Patrick Moraz fans. This is how he left Yes in 1976. - Were you forced to leave or parting company was friendly? Patrick Moraz: Unfortunately, I was forced to leave. And even though, at the time, the split “was not made to appear acrimonious”, I suffered extremely and extensively. To be “asked to leave” so suddenly put me in a lot of turmoil and disturbance. The fact is, I was never compensated for anything. I never ever got paid for any of my tour participation in the extremely successful and extensive YES Tour of 1976, which comprised about 65 concerts, many of them in front of sold-out audiences of more than 100,000 people. After all, as a member of the band, I was entitled to a 20% cut from what the band was getting. I don’t like to dwell into negatives, however, I can tell you that I had absolutely no desire to want to leave YES, at the time, in November of 1976. We had just finished the biggest tour YES had ever done, the “Bicentennial Tour”, a huge, extremely successful tour for YES. Somehow, it had been decided that we would go and record, in my own country, Switzerland, what became the album “Going for the One”, which we had extensively composed, developed and rehearsed during the course of 1976 (and even before that). There was no reason in the world for me to want to leave the band! Also, I understood, much later, that Rick was already in town, with his own crew, when I was still in the group, and I was still part of YES. In addition, it was an extremely complicated and difficult situation for me to be stranded, on the street, with my baby daughter who was only one-month old and her mother, without any transport or money, in the cold winter of Switzerland. Then the fight for survival to stay alive, it all became surreal.
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Apr 3, 2014 01:26
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Since I earlier posted what Patrick Moraz had to say, I thought I would post an open letter from Eddie Jobson about his very brief time in Yes as well as his interaction with the prog rock scene. Again, its not a happy story, and Eddie dodged the bullet that later hit Moraz (at least the first time). However it does offer a glimpse behind the curtain and the personalities of rock stars. This is from Jobson's website:Eddie Jobson posted:
There you have it. I have one more interview to post once I find it concerning the period of the Union album.
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Apr 6, 2014 19:00
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We've heard sides of the story particularly from Bill Bruford, Rick Wakeman, but here is a very different side of the story from the producer of Union: Jonathan Elias. His story is just as hosed up, but for totally different reasons.Jonathan Elias interview posted:The making of Union is shrouded in mystery: perhaps you can shed some light on its proceedings. You seem to have written a number of the songs for Union with Jon Anderson in the studio. Was that because of a shortage of good enough material or a planned collaboration? There you have it. Drama indeed! And the album sold as many copies as the ABWH album: about 750,000. Gold, just 250k short of a platinum album.
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Apr 6, 2014 19:30
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Declan MacManus posted:I've never read what Bruford and Wakeman have had to say, does anyone have a link to that stuff? Well, there was the Classic Artists interview dvd taken after the 2004 tour but before Jon got sick, as well as Bruford's autobiography. Bruford and Wakeman in the both said said that the Union album was a horrible mishmash where all of the original members' parts were taken off and overdubbed. Wakeman threw his copy of Union out of his car while on a Florida highway. He said he doesn't even classify it as a Yes album. He seemed excited to work with Trevor Rabin, especially since neither of them were getting along with Steve Howe. That is pretty funny considering Wakeman was just as much against Rabin as the rest back in 1983, according to the letter from Eddie Jobson. Bruford also talks about it in his biography. When it was going to be ABWH II, Bruford for together with Steve Howe and Tony Levin for some jam sessions that looked really promising. Suddenly Jon and Rick come in with Brian Lane to announce that they are now part of Yes again as a huge supergroup. Bill was upset from the get go, because he still had problems with Squire (the only reason he agreed to do ABWH was if Levin took Squire's place). THen the money starts REALLY pouring in, and there were loads of expensive dinners in the French countryside with no ideas. This is what worried Bruford about the budget so much. "He who pays the piper calls the tune", Bruford states. He says the record company got VERY involved with the making of the record because of the large budget. Therefore they could dictate how the record would sound with Jon going along with them. I never caught any interviews with comments from Jon Anderson or Steve Howe about the making of the Union record. Now the tour is a different soap opera, mainly issues between Howe and Rabin. Wakeman was upstaging Tony Kaye, Bruford seemed like he was just collecting a paycheck since Alan White didn't want to give up the drums as much (pretty much Rabin's attitude as well). Bruford would play trickier songs like Heart of the Sunrise (which he co-wrote) but otherwise played electronic percussion effects, except for the one Madison Square Garden show where it shut down. There's a lot to it.
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Apr 7, 2014 16:14
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FrankenVader posted:In defense of Yes "Union" , The more we live Let go" was a pretty loving fantastic piece of work. I understand. I love that song too. As much of an ABWH Yes-East, Trooper, etc fan I am, I think that is probably my favorite song on that album. I also think Angkor Wat, Evensong, and Take the Water to the Mountain are great. All four of those songs are ambient and spacey, which is how I like my Yes. I saw the tour as well, on my birthday. It was anything but boring, I can say that!
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Apr 10, 2014 20:32
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Olibu posted:I was quite disappointed to find out that Run Through the Light is the only song from Drama that hasn't been played live. I need more of it in my life. Agreed! after ABWHS, my fav Yes lineup is the Drama team, I have no idea why. maybe because its such a different band.
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Apr 11, 2014 22:37
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MegaZeroX posted:Ian Anderson's Homo Erraticus is now out! You can get it on iTunes, but it isn't available anywhere else yet, as far as I know. I am waiting for mine to arrive from Burning Shed, which was shipped last week. It is coming with the new 5.1 mix of The Yes Album by Steve Wilson. It should be any day now!
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Apr 14, 2014 20:44
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Iucounu posted:I wish he would do Going For The One. That's the classic album most in need of a good remix. That is actually next on his list since they have been performing it lately... Regarding the ABWH performance, it didn't help that just like the Yes Union dvd, they filmed it towards the end of the tour. I've heard better boots, but when I saw it live on Pay Per View at the time, it was my first exposure to Yes and I was impressed. Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 23:28
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