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Sprint posted:I didn't think this news could support its own thread, so I've resurrected this one to let all the Van der Graaf Generator fans on SA know that the band has just released a new album today, A Grounding in Numbers. Yeah - the more I listen to VdGG/Hammill the more I feel like he's in another league than the other prog musicians. I'm not surprised that this is very good - Hammill's been on a tear in recent years. IMO he's the one prog musician that really stands out in the pack, someone I don't feel bad reccing to people who don't like Yes/Genesis/KC. I like him because he doesn't really gently caress around with his lyrics or music, it's complex and hard to get into and so lyrically dense, so if you're not in for the ride then you're not going to get it. The man's got talent.
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May 20, 2011 17:07
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King Crimson's "40th anniversary remasters" are definitely worth a shot if you're big into the band. Particularly the one for Lizard, which was practically remixed from scratch by Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree. Maybe one of the best re-mastering jobs I've ever heard. It completely transforms the album and makes it sound like the crazy experimental jazz freak-out that it was always meant to be. Some elements of songs like "Indoor Games" that were completely obscured come to the fore. The whole thing really is amazing!
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Aug 17, 2011 22:29
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Gimmedaroot posted:I love the King Crimson Projekct "Scarcity of Miracles". It especially sounds great in 5.1 surround with all of those Fripp soundscapes swirling around you. I really wish this band would've toured. I dunno, I really thought that album was pretty horrible. Obviously this is a group with some real talent but it's not exciting and it's not really soothing, it just occupies this middle-ground "nothing" space for me, nothing memorable and everything exactly the same. Given that's only from a few listens on headphones but I just didn't find the material interesting at all. I know Fripp is in his mid-60's but I wish that just one more time, he could reach back and do something incredible again. Gimmedaroot posted:Steve Wilson gave an interview recently, promoting his new album and the new remixes he did for Aqualung(!). He said just what I've been saying for years and why I can't get into neo-prog or even prog metal: prog these days is missing the key ingredient of the old days which is jazz. It just sounds cold without it. There's also kind of a blues influence in some of it (particularly Yes), and I do agree that a lot of newer prog focuses so much on technical precision and complexion that they've lost the 'feel' parts. I don't know if this means anything to anybody but whenever you read an article about the old King Crimson lineups, or Yes, or Van Der Graaf Generator, they don't seem like they're pretentious at all and have excellent senses of humor. It's almost jarring to hear Jon Anderson come off as a ridiculously friendly and respectful guy. I don't know why I expected different but I think many of the old-timey prog musicians didn't have that stick-up-their-rear end seriousness that ruins 'neo-prog' today.
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Aug 26, 2011 20:16
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IMO Jakko just kinda ruins the whole thing, he's got like a 2-note range, which is irritating. Fripp's interviews do come off as pretentious but they're some of the most enlightening I've ever read, the guy really does know his poo poo and has a lot of interesting things to say.
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Aug 29, 2011 16:29
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Rollersnake posted:Plus The Sailor's Tale in its early, unfinished form gives rise to some awesome improvs—in the April 12th one, Fripp plays a fragment of what would later be Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part 1. the 40th anniversary Islands reissue has part of this. definitely very good and worth hearing. i'll have to look into those shows, I really did like the Ladies of the Road set
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Sep 13, 2011 16:49
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3 is also the name of that awful band with Emerson, Palmer, and Robert Berry - bad choice dude
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Oct 18, 2011 14:05
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Rollersnake posted:George Starostin apparently thinks it's the worst thing Hackett's ever done. I disagree with his reviews fairly often, but these nostalgia projects always fill me with a sense of foreboding anyway, so I'm not exactly eager to check it out myself. Then check it out, Starostin's wrong about nearly everything
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Nov 4, 2011 14:08
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Yeah - I do agree with that. I read a lot of Starostin (and McFerrin) in high school and without them I wouldn't know anything about prog. The whole thing where he declares the Beatles to be the pinnacle of everything is super obnoxious. That said, he the fact that he dug Ween meant that even I could get into them. Looking back now, some of this stuff is ridiculous - saying that Bjork and Soft Machine's debuts were the best, completely trashing on Pawn Hearts (it's a hard one to love, but from a guy who's nuts about prog? Pawn Hearts is a godsend!!), plus this bizarre kick he's on where he tries to review every album ever made (apparently) - ditching the ratings completely so they're totally useless. 3 years into this project, he's finally up to the B's, meaning he's probably going to die before he's half-done with it. (this includes 4 Avril Lavigne albums by the way)
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Nov 4, 2011 19:35
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no, that was an "A"
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Nov 7, 2011 19:04
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You guys want to hear a funny prog record, check out Starcastle's debut (1976). This band went full out to imitate Yes, and I mean that in every sense of the word. Basically they sound like The Yes Album but with Rick Wakeman. I know that is a very specific sound but that's exactly what they went for. And some of it is pretty good! This is no classic by any means but it's drat entertaining to pick out all the Yes references (some very specific).
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Dec 20, 2011 17:25
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Kind of, it's all very "rock 'n roll", which means it drops a lot of the pretentions. IMO it's still second rate but it's very easy to like. You just have to admire the effort.
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Dec 21, 2011 22:42
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Gianthogweed posted:ELP have slowed down, and Greg's voice has deepened, but they still sound great live. Pink Floyd/Waters/Gilmour still sounds amazing, though not as ballsy as they did in their younger years. Renaissance and Rush both sound as good as ever, and King Crimson has gotten even more aggressive as they aged. I still hold out hope that Yes can pull it together at least one more time. While I agree that some of these bands can still sound awesome live (Van der Graaf Generator and the Moody Blues come to mind), ELP is not one of them. Here's something I wrote in my review of their latest live disc: quote:Grab a piano right now and try to bang out something like "Sunshine of Your Love" or "Smoke on the Water" in real-time without rehearsing. Congrats - you now sound exactly like Keith Emerson.
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Jan 5, 2012 17:49
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can we get some discussion on Peter Hammill/Van der Graaf Generator? The more I listen to this stuff the more I feel like they really were the best out of the whole movement, so thoughtful, evil, and sincere that even the anti-prog brigade had to show some respect. sadly I only have a handful of albums (everything up to Godbluff and the first 4 PHs) and am very curious as to what his solo albums wound up sounding like in the 80's and beyond. Obviously his albums when VdGG were "on break" are the most famous but are the rest worth looking into?
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Feb 7, 2012 19:18
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Its funny how Steven Wilson has become the figurehead for progressive rock lately
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Feb 21, 2012 16:10
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Henry Fungletrumpet posted:Not really. I can't think of another person on the scene who's actively involved themselves in so many projects, both as writer, performer or producer, so it's only natural that he'd become something of a poster boy. He's a loving great producer though, so I can't say I mind when his name turns up in the liner notes. absolutely, the remastering job he did on Lizard is the best remaster I've ever heard of anything - like it completely changes what the album is about
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Feb 22, 2012 16:32
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I never knew if 666 was really considered 'prog' (their other two albums certainly aren't! even though they are quite good), but yes it's a pretty incredible album, amazing and kinda terrible at the same time. It's weird that there are hardly any "proper songs" after "Four Horseman", as it's pretty much all instrumental jams and narration, but it works!
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Feb 27, 2012 15:07
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yeah, usually I turn cynical around the 4th remaster or so, but the 40th anniversary remasters are awesome, especially Court and Lizard (Lizard is basically a new album. really!!)
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Mar 22, 2012 13:49
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Rollersnake posted:Absent Lovers is easily one of the best Crimson live albums, but the biggest highlight for me has to be Waiting Man. "Boy, that's the best we've done that in a long time," Adrian says at the end—I'd personally say it's the best they've done ever, but I've still got a lot of KCCC releases to go through. absolutely - it's one of those few examples of a band being completely plugged in for like, every single song, and they all know it too. IMO it's their best live album (out of the 10 or so I've heard) I finally broke down and got the Great Deciever set, and it's really very good if you just take it one disc at a time. They sound a bit like Can!
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Mar 26, 2012 14:56
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Gianthogweed posted:The older master was a bit top heavy. The drums especially sounded tinny. It still was a great album though. And yes, ol' Gord takes some warming up to, but I think his voice fits the album perfectly and adds to the strangeness. I felt the old mix was just ugly and muffled - stuff like "Happy Family" didn't have any power to it, which it does on the new remaster. Like, you want to be overwhelmed by how chaotic the thing is, but the old mix had it just sounding like a mess. I don't know how to describe it - this is the only time a remaster greatly changed my opinion of an album.
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Apr 17, 2012 16:49
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Orange_Lazarus posted:Man I want to start listening to prog rock (after seeing that episode of The Venture Bros) so I got a hold of some Crimson King. Which album did you start with? IMO In the Court... and Red are the two to start with. They've definitely been...uneven, but those two are pretty much inscrutable. As far as prog for newcomers goes, I always recommend the good Yes albums (The Yes Album, Fragile, Close to the Edge), as they're so much fun and have so many good riffs that you don't even have to concentrate on the "mystical" edge of it.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:44
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Yeah Mahavishnu gets pegged as jazz-fusion a lot but really they're just prog without the lyrics. That one and Inner Mounting Flame are excellent.
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Jul 16, 2012 16:22
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Optimum Gulps posted:Not sure if there are any Echolyn fans here, but they just released their first album in seven years (self-titled) and in my opinion it's the best thing they've ever put out. Not to be confused with their debut album from 1991, which is also self-titled. Here's the opening track from it. I've been getting into Echolyn lately, and they're really incredible!
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Aug 20, 2012 15:01
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Did ELP audition a bunch of drummers for their 1986 album, or just ones whose last names started with P? Serious question. If Phil Collins going would it be Emerson, Lake, and Phil?
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Aug 29, 2012 17:23
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Rollersnake posted:It would be neat if he released that tape. I've always been curious about it. Exactly, I loved how in Absent Lovers they just forget the tape and jam.
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Sep 11, 2012 15:38
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The Monkey Man posted:Get some Van der Graaf Generator- I recommend Pawn Hearts, Godbluff and Still Life. These three + "H to He Who Am the Only One", which I think is probably the most accessible to those who are into the more classic prog albums. All four of these are essential and what makes VdGG my favorite out of any of these groups. Seventh Arrow posted:Yeah, this is true. I've always been kind of averse to their lack of guitar, but that's a silly reason. Plus Lake is a pretty sweet bassist. Trust me, they don't need a guitarist. I'd start with the s/t and go in order (maybe skip Pictures at an Exhibition if you're not sold on the band), then do a hard stop once you hit the live album "Welcome Back My Friends..." Almost nothing they did after 1974 is worth hearing. Also, add "Selling England by the Pound" to the Genesis list. If I hadn't started with that album, I'd probably never have gotten into them. Maybe take off "Abacab" (as mentioned) - I think it's a fine album and one of the best of the post-Gabriel era, but it's only as "prog" as 90125.
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Nov 8, 2012 18:11
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I'm one of the few who like "The Battle of Epping Forest", particularly the odd part in the middle! But uhh..I realize it's kind of out there. You're right about 70's jazz-fusion - it seems to appeal way more to prog guys than jazz guys. Anyway if that's up your alley you may want to check out some Magma if you haven't already. That dips into a genre called "Zuehl" which is kind of tangentally related to prog but has the same epic feeling and dazzling musicianship as anything prog rock has to offer. Plus, I don't think a second listen to an album like MDK is necessary since you pretty much will know if they appeal to you right away.
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Nov 9, 2012 16:36
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I think even the people who defend TFTO would agree that you should probably get the other good 70's albums by Yes before Tales. I thought the same thing but these tracks are nothing like "Close to the Edge".
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Nov 16, 2012 16:14
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solids2k posted:The guy who posted above me more or less shares the same feelings I do. Just go buy Discipline, Thrak, and The Power to Believe. Those albums are fantastic... the others have their moments but do not suck by any means. Those are the 3 post-Red that are good, but the live albums Absent Lovers (1984) and Heavy ConstruKction (2000) are also very good and IMO better than the studio albums, even Discipline. So make sure you pick those up too.
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Dec 19, 2012 06:28
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From what I've heard Adrian Belew's solo albums are usually better than the concurrent solo material. Come to think of it I don't really like any of Fripp's contributions to King Crimson from Beat to ConstruKction of Light. Belew pretty much singlehandedly turns THRAK into something worthwhile. As far as live sets go I still maintain Absent Lovers is the best one but the first disc of VROOOM VROOOM (from the double trio in 1996, right before they split up) is almost as good.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:51
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Echolyn's a more modern prog act that takes after Gentle Giant a lot, you may want to give them a whirl.
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Jan 13, 2013 18:21
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Optimum Gulps posted:Pretty much everything they've released is great (though "As the World" suffers from poor production thanks to its major label engineering), but I recommend their newest self-titled album. Here's the opening track I've never heard anyone complain about the production on "As the World" but I totally agree; their music can be incredibly thick but the loud engineering really makes it a bit of a headache. But the material is great (as it is on every other album of theirs I've heard)
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Jan 14, 2013 06:53
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First two Genesis albums are like the first two Yes albums - the first one is interesting and kind of fun, but not really progressive (okay, it's actually quite embarrassing in Genesis's case, but I really love "Window"), the second is where the prog starts, but it's clumsy. Seek "The Knife" (easily one of their best) but otherwise just start with Nursery Cryme.
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Jan 24, 2013 16:35
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Iucounu posted:Yeah CTTE is a lot more focused and cohesive than Fragile. I like to think of Fragile as a 4 track EP with a few solo bonus tracks mixed in. I listen to just those main band tracks 90% of the time. The solo stuff is like 10 minutes total - even less if you discount "The Fish" as part of "Long Distance Runaround". I agree that "Cans & Brahms" is kinda stupid but it's a really good album as a whole.
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Feb 18, 2013 16:19
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Renreeja posted:thanks dude up the page who mentioned Echolyn, i completely forgot about those guys. they've got some awesome personality in their music!!! I love them because they fit so many of my ideals of what a great prog band should be. They are one of the few prog groups where I don't really know which member does - one, because they switch instruments and alternate singers so much, and two, because they really strive to do what's best for the song rather than make sure that each member gets theirs, so to speak. It's easy to miss how talented some of these guys are (especially Buzby, the piano/keyboards guy) because there are very few solo or jam spots on an Echolyn album (the ones that do exist are pretty brief). Despite my complaints about the production of As the World (which I'd definitely take back now - once you get over the difficulty of deciphering so much crazy emsemble playing over every track, the 'big' sound works much better), I think it really is as good as any classic prog LP you could name, and it would technically be a double album!! Octy posted:Well, I've been listening to prog since I was about 15, I guess (22 now) and I've always absolutely adored it. I didn't listen to anything other than classical music until I was 14 and had 'discovered' The Beatles and from there I was determined to listen to everything recorded in the 60s and 70s. Came across Procol Harum by chance then over the next couple of years got into Yes, King Crimson, Caravan, Camel, Khan, VdGG, PFM, SBB etc and later on Gentle Giant. My iTunes artist list has been pretty static since then so I need recommendations. To make it easier I'll list the bands I tried and didn't like, much to my disappointment: I guess my suggestion would be to spend more time with some of these albums. Prog obviously isn't easy and I think that what comes immediately to some people doesn't for others. For example many people have talked about the difficulty of Van der Graaf Generator but I pretty much loved them on first listen. Meanwhile my first Genesis album (Selling England by the Pound) took a good 5-6 listens to click and I got really big into them afterwards. Anyway I really have no idea what exactly you'd like so let me recommend a couple of bands that are really far out there because once you get into their sound you'll probably determine very quickly if you'd like to go further. The first is Magma, whom you've probably heard of. They play an odd brand of what I'd call "space opera" - long pieces that go through many different movements, often centering around complex and often extravagant vocal lines (they've been known to enlist up to a dozen singers at once). At the head of it all is Christian Vander, a fantastic drummer/pianist/singer who writes the majority of the material (particularly the more "far out" stuff). As far as a good intro album goes, I think 1001 Degrees Centigrade is a good starting spot but it's a bit jazzier. Their most popular album is MDK (Mekkanik Destructiw Kommandoh), which is their most outlandish but it's very good (not the best Magma album by the way, but by far the more well known. The second are Cardiacs, kind of an intersection of prog, psychedelic, and punk, with a really off-the-wall sound and an insane degree of complexity. Sadly their leader (Tim Smith) suffered a stroke recently, as he really is a musical genius, and nearly everything he touches turns to gold. I'd start with their first "proper" studio album called A Little Man and a House and the Whole World Window, and just work your way up. The double disc Sing to God may be a bit overwhelming but it's truly a great, maybe my favorite album ever. Hope that helps!
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Mar 18, 2013 17:32
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^^^ There's some proggy stuff post-Wind and Wuthering but I don't think you can seperate Trick of the Tail from the Gabriel-era stuff. It's very much similar and mostly just as good!!
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Apr 2, 2013 05:11
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Mine was Sheik Yerbouti. I liked just enough of it to become a fan but nowadays find the man quite insufferable. I was thinking about getting into some Marillion. I got Script for cheap and I cannot get past how much Fish sounds like Peter Gabriel. It really distracts from the music.
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Apr 9, 2013 21:14
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Hearing "Magdalena" (not even his first song about statutory rape by the way), got a little less "ironic" and more "disgusting" when you factor in the fact that one of Zappa's former bandmates is a registered sex offender, and another is currently serving 25 years for child molestation.
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Apr 9, 2013 22:11
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I think Todd in general (especially his nutso run of 70's albums from The Ballad of Todd Rundgren to the first Utopia album) is a good suggestion.
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May 3, 2013 15:35
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I thought it was more a conflict of schedule - he's still going to appear on the NIN album, correct?
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Jun 14, 2013 18:53
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Rollersnake posted:I'll be interested in seeing if there's anything in there we haven't already heard, but "all previously unreleased on CD" is a bit weaselly—the live discs are probably all shows that have already been released through DGM Live. At this point I wonder if that band ever played a note that *wasn't* recorded?
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Aug 5, 2013 19:13
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