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foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Welcome to the OFFICIAL Awful Shooting Squad thread Mk. II!

Table of Contents

CLICK HARRY (the mascot) TO BUY SOME rear end CRAP!
If there's something you want but it looks horrible contact foghorn to fix it before you buy it

Sponsored by



Facebook Group!
Click here!!!

WEBSITE!!!
AwfulShootingSquad.com
Ask foghorn for an rear end email TODAY!

Introduction
The Awful Shooting Squad was formed in November of 2009 to compete in the March 2010 Tiger Valley 4-man team competition. Initially, 3 teams were raised for this event, and all 3 successfully competed in the event. Following the successes of that initial competition, the members of the Awful Shooting Squad decided to keep the teams going and compete in more events. The results from all events competed in, along with a list of upcoming events of note, are in the following posts. All TFR readers are encouraged to recommend events that may not be on the list already for addition.

This thread will be for coordinating rear end events going forward, discussion of past events, and the discussion of competition shooting in general.

The Awful Shooting Squad is the official competition shooting team of The Firing Range, sponsored by Dallas Shooting Supplies and Goons like you.


The original Awful Shooting Squad, Tiger Valley 3-gun, March 2010


The Awful Shooting Squad (PA Team and team Wilford Brimley), Topton 3-man 3-gun, June 2010


PA Team (Clockwise from TL: Foghorn, Absolut_Zero, MazeOfTzeentch, ArcMage), Tiger Valley 3-gun, March 2010


Team USA (L to R Diver Dick, Totally TWISTED, Ne Cede Malis, kwantam), Tiger Valley 3-gun, March 2010


(L to R) Foghorn, RoubdBoy, DkHelmet, C4T3, MazeOfTzeentch, King of the Bongo, and ArcMage, Lewistown 3-gun, October 2010



Original thread here.

foghorn fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Oct 16, 2010

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foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Table of Contents
Frequently Asked Questions

Who can join?
The Awful Shooting Squad is open to all members of The Firing Range. If you're a goon and you read TFR you can compete under the rear end banner. You don't need anyone's approval, you don't have to apply to a standing team, you don't even need a team of your own to compete. If there's a competition you're going to and you don't want to be the only scrub there without some team affiliation go ahead and claim your rear end membership. We may, however, coordinate some of the larger events in this thread.

So, in short, if you feel the desire to join the rear end, you're already in. We set this up to be as open and accomodating as possible.

What do you compete in?
Anything that involves guns and a score. We started out in 3-gun (timed for accuracy and speed plus overcomng obstacles), but some of the members also do IPSC or other competitions. If there's a competition style we haven't heard of and you want to do, bring it up and chances are someone else wants to try it too.

What do I need to compete?
Nothing.

Seriously. You don't NEED anything to start out with. There were three people at the first event we ran who borrowed all three guns, magazines, and even tactical gear and ammo. If you want to do some competition shooting, I guarantee there's a goon in your area willing to loan you some of their toys.

But if you want to buy the necessary items, it will depend on what you are looking to compete in. Long range rifle competitions all you need is a good rifle and some ammo. But if you want to run 3-gun you'll need a pistol, a carbine, a shotgun, ammo for all, magazines for everything, running boots, retention gear for the magazines, etc. It can get spendy. Some of the competitiors from Tiger Valley will (I hope) post their rigs below including what weapons they ran so that the newer guys can get a feel for what they need.

Are there standing teams?
Yes, there are a couple standing teams. But that doesn't matter. There's no limit to the number of teams or the number of team members. Don't see a team near you? Start one! Don't like the guys in a team? Join another! It seriously is that easy.

Current standing teams:
PA Team:
  • foghorn
  • ArcMage
  • Absolut_Zero
  • MazeOfTzeentch
  • TheStig (Alt)
TX Team
  • Craptacular
  • Numlock
  • Emathey
  • Dan
Team USA
  • kwantam
  • Totally TWISTED
  • Diver Dick
  • Ne Cede Malis

Are there rules and stuff I can look at?
Sure! Here are the rulebooks for a selected number of the types of competitions we compete in:

Civiliam marksmanship Program rulebook
NRA High-Power rifle

foghorn fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 12, 2010

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Table of Contents
NEW WEBSITE MADNESS!

Thanks to the new website, all results are posted in one convenient place, and after action reports, videos, pictures, and everything else are posted on the blog! Check it out!

Results!!
rear end Blog

foghorn fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 16, 2010

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Table of Contents


NEW WEBSITE!!
for all upcoming events, please refer to the following webpage:
www.AwfulShootingSquad.com

foghorn fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jul 12, 2010

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


[reserved]

foghorn fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Aug 26, 2014

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


[reserved]

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



Keep on keepin' on, rear end. It was great to watch the preparation and read the results of your experiences. Hopefully someday I will be able to join a team for a competition somewhere on my side of the country.

Comfy sponk
Mar 30, 2007



I've been wondering if there were any 3 gun matches around the PNW and if ther were possibilities of getting a NW goon team together.

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

Do you folks have a youtube channel where you've stored videos that I'm missing, or haven't you shot any video?

I saw several videos, but none from rear end unless I'm a complete dumbass. It's likely that I'm a complete dumbass.

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.



foghorn posted:

Topton 3 man 3-gun
Topton Fish and game Association, Topton, PA
20 June, 2010
$60 per person, register with tapsmd [AT] toptonfga.org

Interested in this. Need a rifle and a shotgun, though.

Roundboy
Oct 21, 2008


oh hey the new thread. I am so in for a topton 3 gun.

Also what would be useful is a go to place on sight in, etc. What are the typical ranges and what is a good zero to have. What is it? 25m for 200m zero, etc?

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


NosmoKing posted:

Do you folks have a youtube channel where you've stored videos that I'm missing, or haven't you shot any video?

I saw several videos, but none from rear end unless I'm a complete dumbass. It's likely that I'm a complete dumbass.

Just added the youtube videos from Tiger Valley. All the ones I have are here.

Roundboy posted:

oh hey the new thread. I am so in for a topton 3 gun.

Also what would be useful is a go to place on sight in, etc. What are the typical ranges and what is a good zero to have. What is it? 25m for 200m zero, etc?

I find a 50/200 yard zero is best, the hold under at 100 isn't annoying to me. State game lands are hit and miss, the one by Danville is Fudd central, but Scotia by me doesn't care what you do or shoot as long as it's slow fire.

Smiling Jack posted:

Interested in this. Need a rifle and a shotgun, though.

PA Late-To-The-Party Team
  • Smiling Jack
  • Roundboy

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

I am planning on flying the rear end Flag at some IDPA and 3-gun events in northern Michigan this year. If anyone wants to join in the fun, you're more than welcome.

IDPA

"3-gun"

The club is saying that they will have plenty of ammo on hand, and contestants will have the opportunity to buy ammo at club prices if they compete in club events.

emathey
May 18, 2008


Idaho goons assemble! Parma Rod & Gun Club does lots of competition stuff, from 3 gun to IDPA stuff. Myself and another boise goon plan on shooting these events soon, come out and join us.

egyptian rat race
Jul 13, 2007

Lowtax Spine Fund 2019


Ultra Carp

foghorn posted:

[reserved for rear end, LLC info]

Yessssss

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



foghorn posted:

Ironman 3-Gun 2010
Parma, Indiana
10-12 June, 2010
http://www.mgmtargets.com/ironman/index.php

Parma, Idaho.

You got me all excited for nothing

Aquarium Gravel
Oct 21, 2004

I dun shot my dick off

I read most of the last thread. Really jealous of you guys, I miss shooting sanctioned IPSC once a month like I used to, and local, regular 3-gun competition would be a dream. I haven't shot real 3-gun competition in years, since I visitedthe Cav Arms guys in AZ. If I get to compete anytime soon, I'll affiliate. TFR feels more like home to me than other gun forums after all this time.

welcome 2 Clown Town
Aug 1, 2006



risen from the garbage. the scum of the hive cluster - alive. i am it. i have ascended.
i am scrunt

attributed to scrunt but not actually possible as scrunts not capable of self awareness or rational thought


KY goon here, I'm kinda interested.

I've got an AR and a handgun, but only a pump action shotty, would I need to use some sort of semi-auto for 3 gun?

Also I don't have any rigs for anything, and only 2 mags for all my guns (usually just a range nub).

Edit: interested in the Parma Ironman

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



charliebravo77 posted:

Parma, Idaho.

You got me all excited for nothing

Me too

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

I am NOT about to dig through the old thread or the long dead "let's shoot and move" thread.

Who makes and sells good (nice balance between price and performance) 3-gun gear?

mag pouches, chest rigs, vests, dump bags, knee pads, all that extra crap.

I know who to trust for guns and gun parts and for the most part, carry holsters and sport holsters and mag pouches, but all the weight bearing gear carring crap is outside of my area of experience.

HELP!

I WANT TO BE AN rear end TOO!

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005



tomstuart,
A pump shotgun is fine for 3-gun and in fact the majority are pump (although AAS did stomp hard with their saiga-12s).

foghorn posted:

Some of the competitors from Tiger Valley will (I hope) post their rigs below including what weapons they ran so that the newer guys can get a feel for what they need.
I hope it's kosher just stealing my own post from the old thread. I will probably procrastinate on some homework tomorrow and edit in current pricing for my gear also.

Totally TWISTED posted:

Gear Review

Walther P99QA (9mm) - Carried my only pistol, it worked 100% of the time and I was very pleased to get to test it in such poo poo conditions.

AR-15 (.223, 14.5" CMMG Rifle with MAID, VLTOR MUR, KNS Pins, H-Buffer, EGRESS Bolt, PRI Tac-Latch, Extended & Polished Ramps, F-Marked FSB, DD Omega 7" FF Rail, Primary Arms MD-03 (Blem), MBUS, Magpul AFG) - Ran great, the AFG was natural and I loved it, the cheapo red dot sight held up, held zero even with flying out there, didn't get wet inside with the rain. Next range trip I will be looking into the stovepiping I had but I think it was a combo of poor lube, Wolf ammo, possibly mag/seated mag issues.

Mossberg 500 (12ga, 18.5" barrel with SpecOps NRS Stock/shell caddy, Surefire forend (useless for the comp but I left it on just in case)) - Only fired 16 shells but she ran fine and that's all I can ask of it I suppose.

Eagle Industries Universal Chest Rig Tactical Vest - Recommended to me by kwantam, we both ran with this vest at Tiger Valley and both loved it. Zero problems with magazine retention, the shoulder straps are very comfortable and the vest has plenty of adjustment options for a perfect fit.

High Speed Gear Inc. Drop Holster Airborne - It worked well but always felt like it was slipping down my leg even though it wasn't. I will be looking into getting a different holster or for a way to attach it to my chest rig to transfer the weight to my shoulders (which will hopefully get rid of the feeling of slippage).

1.5" Bullhide Beltman Belt - Held my holster up just fine really, I think the problem was more with the thigh strap riding down.

Original S.O.E. Convertible Sling - Had this on my shotgun, with it's current attachment points I have to have it maxed out on extension to be usable but the quick adjust allows for a tighter carry on your back if you're moving long distances.

Vickers Combat Applications Sling - Awesome sling for my AR, loved the quick adjust and quick release. If I buy again I will spend the extra ~5 bucks and get the padded sling to comfort my baby rear end.

Stanley HiDex Gloves - Worked well. I want to practice wearing them more when using my pistol though. A good entry level glove to look into at $15, stop by Wally World to pick some up. If anyone knows of wind/rain resistant gloves for shooting let me know, I just might buy a pair for the next nightmare weather competition I go to.

Blue Force Gear UWL - I picked up two of these in the 3.25" length to figure out how to attach my various slings. Ended up using one of them. If you buy these get them in the 6.25" length unless you have a 3.25" to test with, the 3.25" is so short as to be almost useless, I had to get creative just to get it to work with my shotgun/sling combo.

Tactical 48 SHOTGUN SHELL Bandolier Ammo Belt - Some POS off of ebay, you get what you pay for. I couldn't get it to adjust short enough. Next time I will be looking for different shell carry methods that are more secure for easier grabage of shells and use a dump pouch to make up the numbers if the stage requires a crazy amount of shells.

Things for next time:
- Possible new holster
- Clothing for more diverse weather conditions
- Waterproof boots (mine might look waterproof but they are the summer lightweight model..yay ventilation)
- Drop Bag
- Possible amplifier/magnifying optic (1-4x ish)
- Knee Pads (my left knee is hosed right now)
- New shotgun shell carry method

tangy yet delightful fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Mar 29, 2010

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



infrared35 posted:

I am planning on flying the rear end Flag at some IDPA and 3-gun events in northern Michigan this year. If anyone wants to join in the fun, you're more than welcome.

IDPA

"3-gun"

The club is saying that they will have plenty of ammo on hand, and contestants will have the opportunity to buy ammo at club prices if they compete in club events.

Looks like you could use a buddy

Ill look over the schedules and see when/if I could make one. I would have to borrow a rifle though

Gray Stormy fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Mar 29, 2010

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Secret Ooze posted:

Looks like you could use a buddy

Ill look over the scheduels and see when/if I could make one. I would have to borrow a rifle though

You name the rifle* and it's yours for the match.




* Must be a rifle that I already own!!!11

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


charliebravo77 posted:

Parma, Idaho.

You got me all excited for nothing

Oops!

And now for something I forgot to do in the last thread, MY GEAR!

Firearms
  • AR-15 - Aeroprecision lower, UBR stock, MIAD grip, DPMS parts kit, BCMGunfighter charging handle, Noveske 18" SPR upper, EOTech HWS, Grippod, BAD. Total cost of ownership: $5k. Heavy as gently caress but super accurate. A+++ would buy again. Our mindset was that we were putting together a 3-gun team, not one 3-gun person. So having a heavier rifle for long range stuff makes sense.
  • Sig Sauer P226 - Accurate, safe, easy to handle, cheap to maintain. Total cost of ownership: $600.
  • NEF Pardner Pump - Norinco shotgun, pump action, but it does what I need it to. And cheaply. Pump actions seem to be a handicap in 3-gun, saigas would be better. Total cost of ownership: $250.

Gear
  • ModGear drop leg 6-mag holder - Holds 6 mags, more than I ever needed, in a method that allowed for easy access and the ability to move around without having something strapped to my chest. Plus, it was quick to ditch if I needed to move without it.
  • Blackhawk pistol pouch - Holds one pistol mag per pouch. Holds mags securely, easy to access.
  • Blackhawk SERPA holster - Some people hate on these, but I like it. And for $40 I can't complain.
  • Dump pouch - Exceedingly useful. Whether retaining magazines or (what I used it for) holding shotgun shells, it's great.

For next time
  • Better clothing. Dressing for the elements is something we all need to do better. I'm thinking we do a group buy on some matching milsurp goretex rain suits like Sinistral had.
  • Better boots. Waterproof is something to look for.
  • Exercise. My fat rear end wasn't helping us. At all. That needs to change.

foghorn fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Mar 29, 2010

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

If any New England TFR'er is thinking about competing, I'm planning on letting the rear end flag fly at some Pemi Club events this summer. Let me know if there's some interest and feel free to hit me up at jamie (dot) dub (at) gmale.

Absolut_Zero
Dec 23, 2008

A serious misallocation of valuable military resources


NosmoKing posted:


I know who to trust for guns and gun parts and for the most part, carry holsters and sport holsters and mag pouches, but all the weight bearing gear carring crap is outside of my area of experience.

HELP!

I WANT TO BE AN rear end TOO!

I'm gonna plug my "run slick" option for 3-gun competitions.

My gear setup:

Weapons
AR-15: Stag Arms Model 2,14.5 inch. Modified with a Midwest free-float quad rail, not much else. Counter-Sniper 1-4x24 Optic, MOE stock, Hogue grips, Phantom flash hider, Magpul battery assist device.
Sig Sauer P220: .45 Caliber MANSTOPPAH cannot be questioned. I'm picking up a P226 for the same frame with less recoil. Reliable and tanky, I love it.
Remington 870 Tactical: Knox stock on the back end, TFR hates them, I love it. Any reduction in recoil is an increase in speed.

Gear
Ammo retention: Blackhawk single-stack mag pouches, Bladetech PMAG-compatable rifle pouch.
Holster: Blackhawk SERPA holster. Hate on it all you like, I find it very useful. Having to jump a 10 foot wall means I don't want to have my pistol fly out.
Light: INFORCE flashlight. It's an INOVA dressed up for the military, with a clip-in-clip-out mount for the rifle, very useful and the drunk strobe is insane.
Sling: VTAC 2-point sling. I was using a MAGPUL MS2 sling, but I found myself hanging onto the rifle while moving too much. For big movement, I wanted something with more retention strength. I switched and love it.

That's pretty much it - no chest rig, no slowdown. Most of the stages we ran at Tigger had us using maybe 45 rounds of rifle and 15 rounds of pistol. Running around with a few dozen extra pounds of gear seems totally unnecessary.

Keep your gear light and your times will improve. Train with rocks in your pockets if you really feel hardcore, or something.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



NosmoKing posted:

I am NOT about to dig through the old thread or the long dead "let's shoot and move" thread.

Who makes and sells good (nice balance between price and performance) 3-gun gear?

mag pouches, chest rigs, vests, dump bags, knee pads, all that extra crap.

I know who to trust for guns and gun parts and for the most part, carry holsters and sport holsters and mag pouches, but all the weight bearing gear carring crap is outside of my area of experience.

HELP!

I WANT TO BE AN rear end TOO!

Here, this should help.

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

DJExile posted:

Here, this should help.

I hovered over the link and read it.

You are mean.

plus, the last several purchases have been from Daisy, not Crosman

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



NosmoKing posted:

I hovered over the link and read it.

You are mean.

plus, the last several purchases have been from Daisy, not Crosman

I could be worse. I could have suggested you get that FA airsoft minigun that someone here got like a year ago and just told you to run screaming through the course spraying it everywhere. VV

All joking aside, as far as I've seen, rigs come down to the individual person these days. Hell, knee pads are knee pads. I can't imagine the GO LOUD TACTICAL knee pads are any different from those worn by skateboarders or contractors, for example.

I think Comp-Tac makes a race-ready holster too, but I don't know if those are kosher at 3-gun as opposed to IPSC.

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

DJExile posted:

I could be worse. I could have suggested you get that FA airsoft minigun that someone here got like a year ago and just told you to run screaming through the course spraying it everywhere. VV

All joking aside, as far as I've seen, rigs come down to the individual person these days. Hell, knee pads are knee pads. I can't imagine the GO LOUD TACTICAL knee pads are any different from those worn by skateboarders or contractors, for example.

I think Comp-Tac makes a race-ready holster too, but I don't know if those are kosher at 3-gun as opposed to IPSC.

You people listen about as well as my kids...

I have guns. I have magazines. I have ammo. I have holsters (carry, IDPA, IPSC, and I think there's at least one racegun holster in the pile). I have belt mounted pistol mag carriers. I have a few good gun belts.

What I don't have are dump bags, shotgun shell carry caddies other than a sidesaddle shell holder or lovely nylon bandoleer bought mostly as a prop, vests or carry rigs to strap all this crap onto, mag pouches for the rifle mags, or any of that match specific gear.

I do have a pair of hard front kneepads I bought for home repair to keep the knees in my jeans as well as keep the rocks and gravel out of my kneecaps. I don't have a pair of running boots, but I do have a nicely broken in pair of Caterpillar waterproof leather with steel toe boots from Wolverine.

I also own exactly 0 pairs of tactical pants.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



NosmoKing posted:

I also own exactly 0 pairs of tactical pants.

Man, me either. No 3-Gunning for us

Cadence
Dec 31, 2007


Eat This Glob posted:

If any New England TFR'er is thinking about competing, I'm planning on letting the rear end flag fly at some Pemi Club events this summer. Let me know if there's some interest and feel free to hit me up at jamie (dot) dub (at) gmale.

Holderness! I spend a good chunck of time on Squam Lake, so I would 100% come cheer, as I am not prepared for actual participation.

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



Black Stormy posted:

Man, me either. No 3-Gunning for us

Ill just sew a couple of dump-pouch-esque pockets into a pair of jeans. And use paracord instead of a belt.

DIY tacti-jeans

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

NosmoKing posted:

You people listen about as well as my kids...

I have guns. I have magazines. I have ammo. I have holsters (carry, IDPA, IPSC, and I think there's at least one racegun holster in the pile). I have belt mounted pistol mag carriers. I have a few good gun belts.

What I don't have are dump bags, shotgun shell carry caddies other than a sidesaddle shell holder or lovely nylon bandoleer bought mostly as a prop, vests or carry rigs to strap all this crap onto, mag pouches for the rifle mags, or any of that match specific gear.

I do have a pair of hard front kneepads I bought for home repair to keep the knees in my jeans as well as keep the rocks and gravel out of my kneecaps. I don't have a pair of running boots, but I do have a nicely broken in pair of Caterpillar waterproof leather with steel toe boots from Wolverine.

I also own exactly 0 pairs of tactical pants.


Disclaimer- thoroughly unqualified opinions here. I have a bunch of gun poo poo bookmarked as 'to do later' and some gear queering is involved. I do not own any of this material, but I have lurked and creepily took notes whenever the questions came up:

This was the chest rig recommended by kwantam and Totally Twisted from earlier in the thread.
http://www.eagleindustries.com/prod...8&cat=40&page=2

These guys seem well regarded, and you can barbie it up to suit your purposes. Not cheap though:
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/vests.aspx



Tactical pants on closeout here, $19.99 each but sizes are only available for mutants. Mixed opinions on this vendor, some people hate them, I've ordered from them three times now and didn't have a problem. They put stuff on closeout all the time, so you will have another chance at FANTASTIC SAVINGS.
http://www.lapolicegear.com/511-74251-closeout.html
http://www.lapolicegear.com/511-tac...vert-pants.html

Plenty of sizes available here.
http://www.lapolicegear.com/basic-o...nt-elastic.html

For our southwestern goons:
http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.as...ID=8027&TabID=1

If nothing else, you could always get some surplus BDU pants. And many surplus combat boots are already broken in and cheap in case you need something different for the weather.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



NosmoKing posted:

You people listen about as well as my kids...

SHUT UP YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD!

Sorry, I thought I knew of a couple places for rigs but I drew a total loving blank

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

DJExile posted:

All joking aside, as far as I've seen, rigs come down to the individual person these days. Hell, knee pads are knee pads. I can't imagine the GO LOUD TACTICAL knee pads are any different from those worn by skateboarders or contractors, for example.

Roller Blade Brand, bitches.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



infrared35 posted:

Roller Blade Brand, bitches.



I thought you were barefoot here for a second and pictured you running 3-guns in the dirt and sand like some 8 year-old kid on the beach.

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



Ha! That visual is funny as hell.

Also, is that a stand-off device?

wilfoy
Jan 21, 2004


Are there any matches or 3-gun goons in the Southeast?

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DasReich
Mar 5, 2010


When you say carbine, shotgun, and pistol are there any restrictions as to the type of weapon, say I have a Winchester trenchgun, would that be an acceptable entry as a shotgun? Also is a carbine caliber specific?

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