Deus Ex: Decennial Edition 'What a game.'

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Deus Ex: Decennial Edition 'What a game.'

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

'Aug Lives Matter' was definitely up there with the Kendall Jenner Pepsi commercial as one of the more avoidable social media minefields

Pretty great game though, cant wait for Square Enix to dust the franchise off again.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 16:37

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# ¿ Apr 20, 2024 04:01

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Jesus. I'd forgotten just how much more game there was after the unatco reveal.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2020 18:23

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Samopsa posted:

https://twitter.com/rockpapershot/status/1275020756527845377?s=20

Cool interview!
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/06/22/deus-ex-at-20-the-oral-history-of-a-pivotal-pc-game/

Lollin at the SA mention from John Romero. Great article.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2020 15:04

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Grand Fromage posted:

French Canadians.

Yeah, RIP.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2020 17:13

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Grand Fromage posted:

Adam in HR is pretty flat compared to MD, too. They let Toufexis actually just act as he wanted and the character is real dialed in and good in that game. I replayed the series last year in reverse order and it was jarring going from MD Adam to HR.

I remember thinking that Adam showed more personality in the opening sequence of that MD DLC with Prichard than he showed in all of HR or MD. It seemed like the MD expansions showed that the dev team was really getting into the characters and the world before right the series got shelved again.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2020 00:16

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

fuckpot posted:

Counterpoint - Geralt.

Lol I see what you're saying, but in the first witcher you get collectable half-naked pokemon cards of the women you tag. If the idea of ducking sex in the story is to avoid problematic, poorly written takes, the witcher isnt a great example.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2020 09:39

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Eason the Fifth posted:

Lol I see what you're saying, but in the first witcher you get collectable half-naked pokemon cards of the women you tag.

Cat Mattress posted:

Are they actually collectable? I didn't play that game, but I did read this blog (which is pretty funny):

Okay, while I'm not willing to die on the hill of defining "collectable," I sort of feel like the same article reinforces the more important back half of my point:

Eason the Fifth posted:

If the idea of ducking sex in the story is to avoid problematic, poorly written takes, the witcher isnt a great example.

article posted:

I�m all in favour of recognising female libido and female sexual agency, which is why it�s annoying that the game so rarely follows through. Time and again, we see women express desire for Glabados, then when he reciprocates, they start demanding expensive gifts. Is it that the devs think they can�t make it too easy? Do they crowbar in these elements of challenge deliberately, and if so, why? Does the sex feel more worthwhile if it has to be �earned�? Certain encounters feel so sterile and mechanical that titillation seems a highly unlikely rationale for including them in the game. I wonder, again, what the aim of the sex in The Witcher is � seduction challenge or just sexy entertainment? Many encounters don�t manage either.

Let�s say it�s both, just to imagine how that might work. Pretend you�re making a game where the stated aim is to sleep as many people as possible in a relatively short period. You don�t have time for long getting-to-know-you arcs with dozens of conversations, like dating sims or BioWare romances, so how could you do it without making it squicky, sexist, or, worse, dull? There are so many potential pitfalls, starting with the idea that every woman (or man, for that matter) could be seduced by the protagonist, if they only knew the secret. Not. How. Human. Sexuality. Works.

Still, I think such a game could be possible, with skilled writers. There are a handful of pairings in The Witcher that succeed in doing it well, most notably the scene with the Lady of the Lake, which is still my favourite. It manages to be sexy and interesting, while offering a degree of challenge to the player. The challenge is not in giving her an object she wants, or to save her from anything � she�s a loving goddess. It is, rather, in listening comprehension. The player needs to talk to her, actually listen to what she has to say, then process that information in order to reach an understanding of who she is and what she wants. In other words, to treat her like a person.

(edit - lost the back part of this post, somehow:) So according to this article, the Witcher gets it right with the Lady of the Lake, but flounders in pretty much every other relationship. On top of that, Triss manipulates Geralt into sleeping with her by taking advantage of his amnesia. (The article speaks to this in part one.) If that relationship were reversed, people would be (rightfully) pointing out the max skeeze. Sex scenes are difficult in any medium because there's a fine line between gross titillation and having the scene have meaning inside the theme and premise, but in video games those scenes are especially easy to get wrong given a) the limitations of the engine, b) the ineptitude of the writers, depending on who's fielding the romance, and especially c) the target audience, who might get the idea that women and sex :: slot machines and jackpots. The article also makes this point.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 2, 2020

# ¿ Jul 2, 2020 18:16

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

the_lion posted:

I think Agent Walter

Pretty sure it was Walter.

Jesus Christ, Dornton.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2020 13:10

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

The_Doctor posted:

Sell me on Disco Elysium?

I'm pretty interested to hear this too. I really want to like the game but I lose interest pretty quickly. The writing is pretty good sometimes and I like the world design, but I don't find the gameplay or the characters all that compelling. Does it pick up after you cut down the body?

# ¿ Aug 4, 2020 13:57

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Glagha posted:

If you're not sold already I don't know what to tell you.

El_Elegante posted:

Yeah, I think if you don�t love Disco Elysium thirty minutes in you�re not going to like it at all.

fair enough. :tipshat:

# ¿ Aug 4, 2020 14:55

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Eason the Fifth posted:

I'm pretty interested to hear this too. I really want to like the game but I lose interest pretty quickly. The writing is pretty good sometimes and I like the world design, but I don't find the gameplay or the characters all that compelling. Does it pick up after you cut down the body?

I was entirely wrong about this. It took me a minute to get into the game but man, the writing is taut in all the right ways

# ¿ Aug 9, 2020 21:29

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Bar Ran Dun posted:

spoiler

Hey man can you tag this? it was lovely to come across right in the middle of my run

# ¿ Aug 24, 2020 00:56

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Keith Atherton posted:

Man Deus Ex ruined video game bathrooms for me. You get in big trouble for going into the Unatco HQ women�s bathroom. If you use a toilet it just flushes. I remember going into the first women�s restroom in Fallout 3 and being disappointed that no one cared but also that using the toilet meant drinking from it

Did they miss an opportunity for this in MD? I remember it wasn't there at the Task Force HQ but maybe I just didn't trigger it.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2020 16:49

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Criminal Past is the really good one right?

# ¿ Sep 5, 2020 03:53

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

I don't know if you guys have looked into it yet but Core Decay looks like it's very much our kind of poo poo:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1260940/Core_Decay/

# ¿ Sep 6, 2020 03:51

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

I just beat Criminal Past no augs. Good DLC that did a great job catering to different playstyles, but going no-augs means missing out on some quests that might've fleshed out some side characters. I'll have to go back through on a normal run.

I also extremely want to play Cyberpunk, like right now.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 15, 2020

# ¿ Oct 15, 2020 01:52

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Butterfly Valley posted:

What did I miss?

I'm not sure, since I didn't bother running the modified biocell back to Flossy and I didn't take Worthmueller's pill. 'Quests' was the wrong word there; I should have said 'backstory', because bee-lining for Guerreo means Flossy shows up out of nowhere at the end demanding some television time. It seemed out of place and lacking motivation since I'd spent maybe a minute talking with the guy. (No augs also meant limited ability to hack into personal computers, so I missed a lot of backstory there, too).

In short, no augs wasn't the best way to go for a first run, but I'm looking forward to taking a more thorough approach on a second pass. Playing no augs was a blast, though.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2020 16:37

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

HR is the only game in the series besides the original that makes me want to reinstall it whenever someone mentions it. I know it's got its flaws, and it's not as groundbreaking as the original, but it's a great game that always makes me feel down when I hit Panchea and realize I'm at the end. MD gets points for being as dense as it is for sure--and if that whole overarching plot about Janus and Jensen as a clone comes off true it'll be a brilliant bit of writing--but I never feel the urge to replay it like I do DX or HR.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 15, 2020

# ¿ Oct 15, 2020 17:37

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Shumagorath posted:

What bit about Janus? I don't feel like we got anything concrete on his identity...?

I meant that Jensen is a clone from/reprogrammed by the Illuminati to have a driving desire to find Janus and kill him.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2020 19:46

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

DrankSinatra posted:

I'm wondering if there's anything relatively spoiler-free I should know going in; are there any augmentations that are either pointless or trivalize the game, or am I good going in blind? After the encounter at the end of Milwaukee, I am intrigued by the conversation aug, but I could see where that might be either too good or useless. The stealth mods also look neat, and I'm really liking the non-lethal play so far. That tranq rifle is pretty dang fun, even though I'm still trying to figure out the arc. I'm much better with it than I ever was with the crossbow.

You're good going in blind. A few augs are sort of worthless, but you'll get a reset about 2/3 of the way though the DC in case you want to respec into something else.

That said, the best augs across all playstyles are are probably:
Sarif Series 8 Energy Converter - Energy Rate Upgrade
Cybernetic Arm Prosthesis - Carrying Capacity 1, 2 & 3; Move/Throw Heavy Objects
Reflex Booster
Icarus Landing System
Cybernetic Leg Prosthesis - Jump Enhancement

The value of the others will probably depend on your approach, but I really recommend Hacking Capture and Stealth because you'll probably be doing a lot of it. Punch through wall has its moments.

edit for clarity

edit 2: if you're a fan at all of the series, try a second run-through with the commentary on. It's often funny and insightful, and shows how much the developers respected the series and had their hearts in the right place, but also (they'll readily admit) how often their reach exceeded their grasp.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Dec 16, 2020

# ¿ Dec 16, 2020 00:13

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

King's Quest was my first PC game and even though the series went bonkers toward the end, I-III and VI are definitely in my personal memory lane favorites :unsmith:

edit: Roberta Williams was hugely influential on not just a genre but a whole new medium, and I wish she was mentioned in the same breath as folks like Gabe Newell and John Carmack

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jan 22, 2021

# ¿ Jan 22, 2021 16:20

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Gaius Marius posted:

Not gonna lie thief and SS2 ruined most games sound design for me, I know exactly where and enemy is, how fast he's walking, what he's walking on, and which direction he's facing in those games. I have no idea how we've fallen so far.

You're Friday here and I'm Robinson Crusoe finding a fellow man. I've learned that all the games I really enjoy have incredible sound design as a common denominator, but there's never been a game that did audio like Thief.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2021 20:02

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Gynovore posted:

Of all the things to dislike about Invisible War, this ranks in the top dozen. The player makes a choice at the end of Deus Ex, then IW goes and says "ehhhh, I'm just gonna assume you made *this* choice." And it's the shittiest of the three choices.

IIRC, wasn't it a hybrid of all 3 choices?

# ¿ Apr 21, 2021 18:14

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Why contain it?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56890714

# ¿ Apr 26, 2021 15:16

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

The Core Decay devs are starting to release some blogs. I really like the directions they're talking about taking with the game.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1260940/Core_Decay/

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 02:32 on May 31, 2021

# ¿ May 31, 2021 02:16

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Phobophilia posted:

So this game is basically trying to be an action-centric version of Soma, with the emphasis on ecological collapse, except that the corpos are deliberately trying to engineer the WAU's plan, just so that Capitalism can be kept alive no matter what.

sounds great to me!

# ¿ May 31, 2021 05:23

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Grand Fromage posted:

Thief 3 was great. I never got why people were mad about it.

There was the clunky engine, but 3 also removed cool things like rope arrows (climbing gloves were a poor replacement) (edit: this was mentioned above) and the fantastic art style of the mission briefings in the previous games. And the writing for the Hag was really, really bad. In one journal entry she basically stated some 'My Only Weakness' exposition like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. But on the other hand, there were some great levels on par with anything from the first two games (The House of the Widow Moira, Killing Time, and of course Robbing the Cradle), being able to walk The City was incredible, the graphics engine did some fantastic effects with shadows and lighting, and the ending cinematic was absolutely perfect. I'd rank it my least favorite of the three, but it certainly isn't a bad game.

That being said, the first two weren't without the flaws, either. The Dark Engine was ugly even back in the late 90's, and some of the missions were simply too big, like The Bonehoard.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 21:56 on May 31, 2021

# ¿ May 31, 2021 21:50

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

I don't think there's a ladies' bathroom line in mankind divided, I might have missed it but if not, then the shames

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 20:16

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Auzenne should have briefed the incident to Bob Page. Jensen's ethical inflexibility would allow the Illuminati to make progress in areas they refuse to consider.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 22:15

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

lol. One bit of great writing from MD was how the one person you were told to investigate (Miller) is actually cool, but TF29 is lousy with lots of other Illuminati double-agents like Auzenne, Chikane, and (indirectly) Manderley.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 22:38

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Captain Walker posted:

What's this about Chikane? I know he has a secret room in the abandoned workshop where the TF29 helibase is hidden, but I couldn't make any sense of what was inside.

There's a pocket secretary in Chikane's room where the illuminati is reaching out to him. It isn't implied that he has or hasn't taken the offer, but if the wiki is right, he's also the one who alerted the GARM facility about Jensen.

https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Elias_Chikane#cite_note-3

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 11, 2021

# ¿ Jul 11, 2021 13:51

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Phobophilia posted:

Not just a double-agent, a triple-agent. The game very heavily implies that Jensen died at Panchaea, and the Jensen you play as is a clone that was implanted with memories harvested from the original Jensen's corpse, and released by the Illuminati to infiltrate the Juggernaut Collective. Who knows if Janus knows that Jensen is such, because he explicitly went out to recruit him.

Yeah, the plot and story in MD (and HR for that matter) are actually wonderfully complicated, and full of good twists. It does character and theme better than Cyberpunk did. It just sucks that a third of the story is buried in extended-universe books and mobile games no one cares about, and the other third of the story is in a sequel that Square Enix shelved for a lovely Avengers game.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 15:11

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Dr_Amazing posted:

It's funny looking back and seeing people rioting and stealing to get their hands on vaccines. Apparently very unrealistic.

Deus Ex finally got something wrong, and of course it's about a thing where the reality is even more absurd than the dystopian version

# ¿ Jul 30, 2021 15:08

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Fanks for toggling us in!

# ¿ Oct 9, 2021 06:46

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMej__yTmE

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 06:39

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

I think Thief Deadly Shadows pioneered it, but the Bethesda version was a lot more refined. (Though it wouldn't surprise me if I was wrong, and another game did a similar take before Thief)

# ¿ Mar 15, 2022 05:06

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

site posted:

can't wait to see the monkey paw curl on this one

Randy Pitchford's Deus Ex

# ¿ May 2, 2022 16:55

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

Can't wait to see what they do with Thief

Edit: that was meant to be snarky but really, thief 4 was so bad that anything would probably be an improvement

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 05:07 on May 3, 2022

# ¿ May 3, 2022 05:05

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

I'd actually just be really happy with a Thief about old Garrett voiced by old Stephen Russell, being too old for this thieving bullshit but being hauled in for one last job that (naturally) goes off the rails and changes the future course of The City.

But that said, Thief 3 really did have a perfect ending, and no matter what else happens to the IP, the series (like Deus Ex) shifted the landscape of an entire genre. Looking Glass is already in the textbooks for the field even if a general audience might not remember the name. That's pretty goddamned good.

# ¿ May 3, 2022 20:19

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# ¿ Apr 20, 2024 04:01

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

jeeves posted:

Play the Prison one and never unlock your augs again and pretend that you're playing Thief and ENJOY

I did this. I hosed everything up and savescummed incessantly locking myself into failstates at least a half-dozen times. It was the best goddamn gaming experience Ive had in years.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2022 00:46

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