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Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 30 days!


New season of Carmen Sandiego is up it looks like.

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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Doofenschmirtz got a lot of character growth throughout the series from having to carry a lot of scenes basically on his own, as well as conjuring a motivation for a new scheme every episode. I'm not sure he really worked that well after the end of the show in OWCA files or Milo Murphy's Law, but it was interesting that he really went through a change.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

The problem with the OWCA files for me was the instigating event was totally out of character for Heinz the Ocelot (I do love that he's legally an ocelot due to them being better parents for more of his life, so he's allowed to join as an animal ), which was him showing up with a bunch of missiles and accidentally tripping over and launching them - Heinz Doofenschmirtz would never make a missile. In the episode where Norm turns himself into a weapon, you see Heinz in jail, and he is talking about how he never makes normal weapons as he finds them dull and unchallenging.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Doof did implicitly install a fuckload of weapons into Norm, though (Or have enough laying around for Norm to use when let off the leash). I think it's more that he doesn't actively use destructive weapons within the Tri-State Area, since he plans to conquer it after all, but outside that is fair game.

Nerdietalk
Dec 23, 2014



Sometimes a guy gets into a funk, y'know? Throw in some weapons into a robot and call it a day so you can order some food.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

A lot of people consider the later seasons of Simpsons to be the starting point for it's decline, or at the earliest the Principal and the Pauper, but I think it really hosed things up with the introduction of the Simpson Gene. It invalidated a recurring theme in Bart's episodes, namely Bart Gets an F and the one where he ends up in france in the custody of wine smugglers due to a screwup with an exchange student program - the theme being that Bart isn't dumb, he does retain information fairly well, he just doesn't test well. Under pressure, he proves that he has learned the material. Stress just makes it fall into place for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsAH9HmQSA

The early seasons were much more interesting pre-gene, because there was an aspect of hope for him. The simpson gene just simplified it to "Simpson girls are geniuses, Simpson boys are dumbasses" which gave them an excuse to stop trying. I never actually minded Principal and the Pauper though. It had some cute callbacks, like when Skinner calls out Lisa on cheating by calling Snowball 6 "Snowball 2" and pretending the others never happened, and she just retorts with "Yes, I supposed it could be, Principal Tamzarian." "(flustered) As you were Lisa. Snowball 2."

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Oct 3, 2020

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


Nerdietalk posted:

Sometimes a guy gets into a funk, y'know? Throw in some weapons into a robot and call it a day so you can order some food.

I read this in his voice

BioEnchanted posted:

A lot of people consider the later seasons of Simpsons to be the starting point for it's decline, or at the earliest the Principal and the Pauper, but I think it really hosed things up with the introduction of the Simpson Gene. It invalidated a recurring theme in Bart's episodes, namely Bart Gets an F and the one where he ends up in france in the custody of wine smugglers due to a screwup with an exchange student program - the theme being that Bart isn't dumb, he does retain information fairly well, he just doesn't test well. Under pressure, he proves that he has learned the material. Stress just makes it fall into place for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsAH9HmQSA

The early seasons were much more interesting pre-gene, because there was an aspect of hope for him. The simpson gene just simplified it to "Simpson girls are geniuses, Simpson boys are dumbasses" which gave them an excuse to stop trying. I never actually minded Principal and the Pauper though. It had some cute callbacks, like when Skinner calls out Lisa on cheating by calling Snowball 6 "Snowball 2" and pretending the others never happened, and she just retorts with "Yes, I supposed it could be, Principal Tamzarian." "(flustered) As you were Lisa. Snowball 2."

Admittedly it's been ages since I really watched the show beyond little clips on YouTube or Twitter, but from my recollection(and the occasional look at the episode list on Wikipedia, the show didn't really get that bad till around season 15, hit it's absolute nadir around the episode Boys of Bummer, and gradually began getting a bit better around the time Ned Flanders and Edna Krabapple started dating* to where it is currently where it's rarely ever particularly good with new episodes but it never really gets particularly outright bad either

*still feel killing Edna off with her VA was a mistake, should have just written off the Flanders family as a whole instead, not like Ned had been any good as a character anymore anyways

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


BioEnchanted posted:

A lot of people consider the later seasons of Simpsons to be the starting point for it's decline, or at the earliest the Principal and the Pauper, but I think it really hosed things up with the introduction of the Simpson Gene. It invalidated a recurring theme in Bart's episodes, namely Bart Gets an F and the one where he ends up in france in the custody of wine smugglers due to a screwup with an exchange student program - the theme being that Bart isn't dumb, he does retain information fairly well, he just doesn't test well. Under pressure, he proves that he has learned the material. Stress just makes it fall into place for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsAH9HmQSA

The early seasons were much more interesting pre-gene, because there was an aspect of hope for him. The simpson gene just simplified it to "Simpson girls are geniuses, Simpson boys are dumbasses" which gave them an excuse to stop trying. I never actually minded Principal and the Pauper though. It had some cute callbacks, like when Skinner calls out Lisa on cheating by calling Snowball 6 "Snowball 2" and pretending the others never happened, and she just retorts with "Yes, I supposed it could be, Principal Tamzarian." "(flustered) As you were Lisa. Snowball 2."

Agreed. You can see this most clearly of course in all of the flashforward episodes where Bart is a complete loser. I just don't understand why the writers thought it was a good idea to take a character that's charmed millions and explicitly tell all his fans that he has no hope of success in life and is going to end up a sadsack drunk idiot. And you're right that there is a noticeable change in how Bart gets written compared to the earlier episodes. The Simpson gene doesn't even make sense because wasn't Grampa extremely competent in his early life?

While we're on the subject, retconning the future from 'Lisa becomes President' to 'Lisa ditches 2 girlfriends to settle down with Milhouse' was another loving idiotic idea. Brilliant women settling for mediocre men stopped being charming a long time ago.

Nephthys fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Oct 3, 2020

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Funny thing is Lisa becoming President and Bart eventually becoming chief justice of the supreme Court suggests the Simpsons become the next Kennedys.

J-Spot
May 6, 2002



Nephthys posted:

Agreed. You can see this most clearly of course in all of the flashforward episodes where Bart is a complete loser. I just don't understand why the writers thought it was a good idea to take a character that's charmed millions and explicitly tell all his fans that he has no hope of success in life and is going to end up a sadsack drunk idiot. And you're right that there is a noticeable change in how Bart gets written compared to the earlier episodes. The Simpson gene doesn't even make sense because wasn't Grampa extremely competent in his early life?

People complain a lot about Jerkass Homer, but I think Bart's characterization has suffered the worst as the show has gone on. The current staff have no clue how to write for him. If they bother to write a plot for him at all he's either as big a weenie as Milhouse, a hyperactive idiot, or a complete sociopath. The rest of the time he's basically the Meg Griffin of the family who is either confined to the background or the butt of a joke at his expense.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




J-Spot posted:

People complain a lot about Jerkass Homer, but I think Bart's characterization has suffered the worst as the show has gone on. The current staff have no clue how to write for him. If they bother to write a plot for him at all he's either as big a weenie as Milhouse, a hyperactive idiot, or a complete sociopath. The rest of the time he's basically the Meg Griffin of the family who is either confined to the background or the butt of a joke at his expense.

I think it doesn't help that Bart's whole archetype as a mischievous youngster seems to be... kinda left behind as cartoon cliches go. I watch way too many cartoons and even I can't think of a direct counterpart in anything from the last decade, at least one which doesn't gain superpowers and has to struggle to balance their childishness against the responsibility thrust on them.

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


This is news about a lesser show and not in the right language, but I wanted to say that a listing for a DVD of the Mysterious Cities of Gold's 4th season has recently appeared on some french shops, complete with the name of the episodes :

https://www.amazon.fr/Myst%C3%A9rie...01728023&sr=8-5

However, there is absolutely no official announcement of a release date, so for all I know it might just be a listing set up before the pandemic that nobody thought of changing. So the information about the content is probably accurate, less so the release date.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


X_Toad posted:

This is news about a lesser show and not in the right language, but I wanted to say that a listing for a DVD of the Mysterious Cities of Gold's 4th season has recently appeared on some french shops, complete with the name of the episodes :

https://www.amazon.fr/Myst%C3%A9rie...01728023&sr=8-5

However, there is absolutely no official announcement of a release date, so for all I know it might just be a listing set up before the pandemic that nobody thought of changing. So the information about the content is probably accurate, less so the release date.

I’m so glad they’re continuing the story, I loved the original, and need to watch these new ones. Are there English dubs?

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner


Reminds me I need to get around to finding and watching the third season.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think it doesn't help that Bart's whole archetype as a mischievous youngster seems to be... kinda left behind as cartoon cliches go. I watch way too many cartoons and even I can't think of a direct counterpart in anything from the last decade, at least one which doesn't gain superpowers and has to struggle to balance their childishness against the responsibility thrust on them.

At some point I stopped being able to take the sad Bart episodes seriously, because throughout the rest of the show he's such a legendary hellion that he deserves most of the bad things that happen to him. There's still the archetype of "annoying kid that causes comedic chaos" going around, but usually it's covered up by a thicker layer of innocence where they don't actually mean to cause trouble. I guess the closest things I can think of are Gumball (who was extremely innocent in the first season and was a jerk in later seasons, but more lazy than sinister) or Kick Buttowski.

I guess in general the 90s were kind of a mean time in media. Comics went full dark, exploring a new level of creative freedom with topics that had been forbidden for a long while, and there was a schmaltzy tone of a lot of stuff in the 80s that 90s comedy really wanted to get away from or make fun of. And then with the Simpsons, the show is a caricature of its 90s form with most of the emotionally earnest stuff rinsed out by people who just know Simpsons from when they were kids.

The show is also really out of touch between being a satire of media that no longer exists and being written by people who really don't sympathize with the sort of working class family that regularly goes to church that the Simpsons are supposed to be. There's also kind of that defensive conservatism from people who don't like that societal standards have changed out from under the show.

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


The_Doctor posted:

I’m so glad they’re continuing the story, I loved the original, and need to watch these new ones. Are there English dubs?
I think there are dubs, yes, no idea where to find them though.

Also, be warned, the sequels aren't really made with the original teams or directors and there are some significant changes in tone*, especially in season 2. I tend to think it gets better in the last third (except for some really, really weird decisions in the audio FX department) and season 3 though.

* The channel which ordered the sequel (they dropped season 4 though, that's a different channel) is kind of infamous for having a "child psychologist" on staff who hampered the creative process and what they were allowed to show.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 30 days!


Finished the five released episodes of Carmen Sandiego S3 and some of the episodes had the VILE faculty acting a bit out of character. Just weird goofy Halloween themed hijinks while they're in their new base and it's just strange. It's all being led by the same person rather than at least rotating them. It's oddly cartoonish and juvenile and OOC.

Three new VILE Agents are introduced including one voiced by Dante Basco (he does not scream about HONOR). His character and his partner are fairly uninspiring so far, but the third agent is given a stronger personality and thus stands out very well.

No.1 Special
Apr 4, 2011


Meant to mention this earlier. New episodes of Victor and Valentino started earlier this week and will continue all this month. New episodes of Craig of the Creek start next week. Apple and Onion the week after.

Also of note, It seems like CN, WB, ATT or whoever are getting back into preschool television again

https://twitter.com/CNschedules/sta...548316718723072

https://twitter.com/CNschedules/sta...606773073342466

Though entirely I'm not sure if We Baby Bears will be a pre-K show or not

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?


https://twitter.com/TheAnimaniacs/s...343864798928896

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


I always find the baby bears episodes unbelievably sad. They’re tiny babies who are constantly homeless and hungry, everyone they meet wants to dick them over in some way, and they never get a scrap of happiness. Making a whole series of this isn’t a draw for me.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

A DAILY DOSE
OF OLD SHOOTERS


PLAY NOW MY LORD



The_Doctor posted:

I always find the baby bears episodes unbelievably sad. They’re tiny babies who are constantly homeless and hungry, everyone they meet wants to dick them over in some way, and they never get a scrap of happiness. Making a whole series of this isn’t a draw for me.

to be completely fair, i suspect that the show is gonna be largely about getting from the "point A" of those episodes to the "point B" of WBB as it typically is.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now



This is reminding me of Wreck-It Ralph 2 when Disney kept jerking off about how great they were.
I hope that this turns out to be a joke about how unleashing them once more into society is actually extremely terrible, as the movie this is parodying implies.

No.1 Special
Apr 4, 2011


The_Doctor posted:

I always find the baby bears episodes unbelievably sad. They’re tiny babies who are constantly homeless and hungry, everyone they meet wants to dick them over in some way, and they never get a scrap of happiness. Making a whole series of this isn’t a draw for me.

Unless I read the article wrong, I think it's going to be vastly different from the original series. It's supposed to involve them going to magical worlds via a magic box.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

paradoxGentleman posted:

This is reminding me of Wreck-It Ralph 2 when Disney kept jerking off about how great they were.
I hope that this turns out to be a joke about how unleashing them once more into society is actually extremely terrible, as the movie this is parodying implies.

It would be amusing to have their entire audience in universe being the older people who hated them in the original show, while the younger adults and children are over their stuff. There's a kind of irony in such energetic people feeling left behind despite that energy simply because people are preferring other types of comedy now. Then again they are flexible enough characters that they probably could keep up.

Edit: WAIT, better idea - have the other cartoon characters they come across be the ones to be frustrated by their antics, because they aren't in the mood because they are going through more serious plot lines and just need some time to process their situations.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 11, 2020

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



No.1 Special posted:

Unless I read the article wrong, I think it's going to be vastly different from the original series. It's supposed to involve them going to magical worlds via a magic box.

This makes sense, but the one time my girlfriend and I binged WBB we got like 40/60 baby and regular episodes and those baby episodes are so loving sad. No way i'm falling for this "Oops all baby orphans!" show

Xander B Coolridge
Sep 2, 2011


I really miss hand drawn animation. drat.

That's such a good clip, but it feels so lifeless

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 30 days!


Xander B Coolridge posted:

I really miss hand drawn animation. drat.

That's such a good clip, but it feels so lifeless

The clip is missing a proper joke somewhere other than "Jurassic Park reference," but I assume it's not really meant to have a gag as it's just an announcement promo.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


No.1 Special posted:

It's supposed to involve them going to magical worlds via a magic box.

I already watch this show, clearly.

Xander B Coolridge
Sep 2, 2011


Xelkelvos posted:

The clip is missing a proper joke somewhere other than "Jurassic Park reference," but I assume it's not really meant to have a gag as it's just an announcement promo.

You're right

The only joke is that it looks like Johnny Test, and that's not funny

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



It did rub me wrong when they said "clean vector lines", like, no, that's not what you usually want! You want the lines to look messier, to play with their width.

thelaughingman
Mar 14, 2005
oooh I like madness!



I’m guessing that hello nurse will most likely get cut.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Honestly, that trailer doesn't give me much hope for my worry that bringing the series back would leave it feeling really dated. Man, Jurassic Park came out in 93.

MorningMoon posted:

It did rub me wrong when they said "clean vector lines", like, no, that's not what you usually want! You want the lines to look messier, to play with their width.

I never thought about it before, but I guess that's part of how a lot of the newer takes on Looney Tunes ended up looking a lot stiffer, just from the line width looking artificial and nonvariable. I guess that's one of those creative decisions that you don't know you have to make until modern technology allows you to not make the decision and leave things looking worse for it.

I do remember that there was a point where a lot of cartoons started to be digitally colored, and that kinda screwed up their color palette so that they all started looking oversaturated.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an



SlothfulCobra posted:

Honestly, that trailer doesn't give me much hope for my worry that bringing the series back would leave it feeling really dated. Man, Jurassic Park came out in 93.
It's an instantly-recognizable movie and they're specifically parodying a scene that's already a well-established meme.

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




thelaughingman posted:

I’m guessing that hello nurse will most likely get cut.

apparently a vast majority of the side cast outside of the main trio and Pinky & the Brain aren't returning

cartoons123
Nov 7, 2013


MorningMoon posted:

It did rub me wrong when they said "clean vector lines", like, no, that's not what you usually want! You want the lines to look messier, to play with their width.

Apparently that was just spec dialogue from the storyboard they left in, take that as you will.

https://twitter.com/bludragongal/st...3582175232?s=21

thelaughingman posted:

I’m guessing that hello nurse will most likely get cut.

It’s been semi-confirmed through various sources but yeah, none of the original show characters beyond the Warner siblings, Scratchnsniff, and Pinky and the Brain will be making regular appearances, everyone else might show up in a non-spoken cameo but that’s it, and new characters might be put in to replace them. There’s not a lot of solid info on that.

And like, I know there’s still like a weird stigma against digital animation but like, it’s fine animation, I’m not gonna call it the greatest, there’s some slight tweening but Johnny Test it is not. Titmouse did this sequence, and I’m curious how the other studios will look, especially snipple and Yowza who I think are working on this, and just did the green eggs and ham show for Warner on Ellen money, which was pretty gorgeous, I’d wanna see what they did on Spielberg money

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




Yowza's confirmed? Yowza's the studio on the new looney tunes cartoons shorts that use puppet rig stuff (apparently they ran out of budget; compare them to LTC shorts animated by Tonic DNA or Snipple, which look a lot nicer, though given the aforementioned budget reasons I don't hold it against Yowza)

Now my big wonder is if Tonic DNA, that really nice looking prestige studio on both Green Eggs and Ham and LTC (like seriously, their GE&H episodes were a lot better than the other studios, and the other studios were already pretty good) is involved, even if only to do a few shorts.

cartoons123
Nov 7, 2013


Digamma-F-Wau posted:

Yowza's confirmed? Yowza's the studio on the new looney tunes cartoons shorts that use puppet rig stuff (apparently they ran out of budget; compare them to LTC shorts animated by Tonic DNA or Snipple, which look a lot nicer, though given the aforementioned budget reasons I don't hold it against Yowza)

Now my big wonder is if Tonic DNA, that really nice looking prestige studio on both Green Eggs and Ham and LTC (like seriously, their GE&H episodes were a lot better than the other studios, and the other studios were already pretty good) is involved, even if only to do a few shorts.

I think I got the studios confused, my bad, but yeah Tonic’s working on it too, along with Titmouse, Yowza, and Snipple (Excuse the Cartoon Brew Link)

https://www.cartoonbrew.com/streami...ies-197301.html

One of the things they’ve been pushing about the reboot is consistency, they’re basing the designs on the TMS look with some slight updates (the little tufts of hair) so on the one hand they’re probably won’t be any like wild divergences but on the other no studio will prob end up Freelance level of bad, so hey

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



SlothfulCobra posted:

I never thought about it before, but I guess that's part of how a lot of the newer takes on Looney Tunes ended up looking a lot stiffer, just from the line width looking artificial and nonvariable. I guess that's one of those creative decisions that you don't know you have to make until modern technology allows you to not make the decision and leave things looking worse for it.

I do remember that there was a point where a lot of cartoons started to be digitally colored, and that kinda screwed up their color palette so that they all started looking oversaturated.

Yeah, it's something you either work into the art style or spend years and billions of yen creating a solution for. (a post-processing tool that helps lines become more like ink strokes. First time Toei got to use it for a tv show was in 2016)

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




cartoons123 posted:

I think I got the studios confused, my bad, but yeah Tonic’s working on it too, along with Titmouse, Yowza, and Snipple (Excuse the Cartoon Brew Link)

https://www.cartoonbrew.com/streami...ies-197301.html

One of the things they’ve been pushing about the reboot is consistency, they’re basing the designs on the TMS look with some slight updates (the little tufts of hair) so on the one hand they’re probably won’t be any like wild divergences but on the other no studio will prob end up Freelance level of bad, so hey

I'm betting the stuff animated at the korean studios mentioned in the studio are gonna be comprable to Yearim (the one korean studio on Looney Tunes Cartoons)'s work, i.e. clearly hand drawn (like all korean stuff) but a bit on the stiff side.

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WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

A DAILY DOSE
OF OLD SHOOTERS


PLAY NOW MY LORD



MorningMoon posted:

Yeah, it's something you either work into the art style or spend years and billions of yen creating a solution for. (a post-processing tool that helps lines become more like ink strokes. First time Toei got to use it for a tv show was in 2016)

No wonder Dragon Ball Super: Broly looked so loving gorgeous

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