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BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I've just found out that an old cartoon I liked is actually on Amazon Prime:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Transylvania-Pet-Shop-Season-1/dp/B00ET0WK5A

Did not expect that. Might buy the first season later on, been meaning to check out that one, see how it aged.

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KingKalamari
Aug 24, 2007

Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack


Let's not forget another show from the 90s that drifted into more serialized storytelling: Beast Wars. It's honestly amazing how many things that would normally be setbacks ended up making that show work: "Oh we don't have the budget to have more than a dozen character models? We'll just have a small cast and focus on characterization!" "Oh all the characters on our show are alien robots? Sweet, that means we can have them shoot each other and suffer horrific injuries and the censors won't get on our rear end!" "Oh we need to market a new wave of toys but still don't have the budget to have more than a dozen character models? gently caress it, we'll kill off a bunch of characters to make room for the new ones and move the story forward!"

Also: One of the other major setbacks of Danny Phantom was that it focused on high schoolers, which meant Butch Hartman was legally obligated to cram it full of all his issues about being picked on in high school, delivered with the subtlety of a brick to the face...

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


for the 90s, at the top of my head we had:

- X-men TAS
- Spiderman: TAS
- Silver Surfer
- Gargoyles
- Pirates of Dark Water
- Superman: TAS
- Conan: The Adventurer
- The "red sky" season of TMNT
- Mighty Max (sort of. a lot of episodes were standalone but there was a larger overarching storyline)
- Reboot
- Beast Wars

Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 11, 2021

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



My favorite things about the 90s Spiderman cartoon were the overly complex, bombastic nested titlesóSins of the Father: The Eternity Syndrome, Part II.

Geo Fixer
Jan 10, 2012

"Freedom lies in being bold."
-Robert Frost


Mr Interweb posted:

for the 90s, at the top of my head we had:

- X-men TAS
- Spiderman: TAS
- Silver Surfer
- Gargoyles
- Pirates of Dark Water
- Superman: TAS
- Conan: The Adventurer
- The "red sky" season of TMNT
- Mighty Max (sort of. a lot of episodes were standalone but there was a larger overarching storyline)

You're forgetting Batman: TAS and Transformers: Beast Wars aka the best Transformers.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Geo Fixer posted:

You're forgetting Batman: TAS and Transformers: Beast Wars aka the best Transformers.

poo poo good point. same with reboot. however, did Batman have that? i thought about it but didn't include cause i couldn't think of any long story arcs.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Mr Interweb posted:

speaking of W.I.T.C.H., what's the verdict on it? i caught a couple episodes back in the day and it seemed decent.

It's pretty good.

Geo Fixer
Jan 10, 2012

"Freedom lies in being bold."
-Robert Frost


KingKalamari posted:

Let's not forget another show from the 90s that drifted into more serialized storytelling: Beast Wars. It's honestly amazing how many things that would normally be setbacks ended up making that show work: "Oh we don't have the budget to have more than a dozen character models? We'll just have a small cast and focus on characterization!" "Oh all the characters on our show are alien robots? Sweet, that means we can have them shoot each other and suffer horrific injuries and the censors won't get on our rear end!" "Oh we need to market a new wave of toys but still don't have the budget to have more than a dozen character models? gently caress it, we'll kill off a bunch of characters to make room for the new ones and move the story forward!"

Also: One of the other major setbacks of Danny Phantom was that it focused on high schoolers, which meant Butch Hartman was legally obligated to cram it full of all his issues about being picked on in high school, delivered with the subtlety of a brick to the face...

While there was definitely a fair share of 80's/90's cartoons that had some serialization I'd say it didn't become prominent until the mid to late 2000's.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Batman had a couple two-parter episodes, but otherwise it was pretty solidly episodic. I guess the first season had Harvey popping up a couple times before turning into Two-Face, but other than that, I think the only episodes that definitely referenced previous episodes was how Harley Quinn got established as a long-term character despite being developed as a one-off henchman.

Just because B:TAS was real good doesn't mean it had everything. S:TAS, Beyond, and even The Batman had more in the way of overarching narratives. X-Men, its contemporary, got pretty drowned in the melodrama of its continuing narratives, and that's a big part of why it's not remembered as fondly as the timeless, more contained B:TAS.

And looking at VHS release dates, the first official release of B:TAS was in '97, despite the series coming out in '92, so it wouldn't really have been able to benefit from being serial in the same way that X-Men did when X-Men got released on VHS at about the same time it aired in numbered boxes so you can follow the story linearly (assuming you know how numbers work, which I uh...might've not at the time I started watching) and feasibly fill in the gaps of what you haven't seen.

You really need official home media releases to get a relatively short but overarching story to be understood by the audience, because it's such a stark difference between my experience just happening to see part of the Red Planet miniseries and having to wonder what the hell that was all about for years, and my experience missing a bunch of season 2 of Avatar and just being able to find and watch it on Youtube (and of course, these days a lot of companies are much better about providing ways to more legally find and watch their content if you didn't stick to the scheduling).

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Batman TAS and Superman TAS were indeed highly episodic but they did have soft continuity that becomes much more apparent when you take a look at them now on HBO Max. Batman had Harvey Dent episodes before he becomes two-face (as you mention), but also episodes before and after Robin, before and after Batgirl, and even eventually the new Robin and Nightwing (with the production change).

Superman meanwhile had a slow burn escalation with Darkseid where it's mostly just Bruno Manheim doing boom calls to Apokolips, then Kalabak, then Orion shows up and there's a full bore invasion, and then nothing for a while before they bring it back for the series finale. But overall you are correct: we would not really call them serialized stories.

If you want to talk about forgotten highly serialized cartoons there's always the Saban-created XYBER 9 NEW DAWN that no one saw and no one cared about but it really really really wanted to be anime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srlc7-QxGM4

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?


Gargoyles is a big one for serialization in the 90s.

Twibbit
Mar 7, 2013

Is your refrigerator running?


I am one of the 5 people that loved that show

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

The one problem with heavily serialized shows is the time I missed an episode of Ghost in the Shell and it was the one episode where they actually explained the plot.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an



The cool thing about all the Marvel animated series from the 90s is that they all were kind of terrible yet have become lodged in peoples' brains as the "definitive" version of those characters and stories (Gambit and Jubilee owe their careers to X-Men TAS and the Spider-man TAS version of the Black Suit/Venom saga has completely supplanted the original comics version to a ridiculous degree.)

Geo Fixer posted:

Transformers: Beast Wars aka the best Transformers.

Beast Wars is a weird way to spell Animated.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?


Funky Valentine posted:

The cool thing about all the Marvel animated series from the 90s is that they all were kind of terrible yet have become lodged in peoples' brains as the "definitive" version of those characters and stories (Gambit and Jubilee owe their careers to X-Men TAS and the Spider-man TAS version of the Black Suit/Venom saga has completely supplanted the original comics version to a ridiculous degree.)

The 90s Spider-Man cartoon did a lot of very efficient direct adaptations of specific comics issues and arcs. Its version of the Venom arc, unbound from Secret Wars Marvel Cosmic Crossover Stuff, was the first streamlined version of the story in a really effective way.

quote:

Beast Wars is a weird way to spell Animated.

animated is good but it didn't get a real ending.

DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 02:09 on May 12, 2021

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


TwoPair posted:

Wait what.

Maybe it's that I am trans and swim in trans circles, but I see that take fairly often when Danny Phantom is brought up.

DoctorWhat posted:

animated is good but it didn't get a real ending.

There is that fan comic from Botcon though.

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!




Fun Shoe

Mr Interweb posted:

for the 90s, at the top of my head we had:

- X-men TAS
- Spiderman: TAS
- Silver Surfer
- Gargoyles
- Pirates of Dark Water
- Superman: TAS
- Conan: The Adventurer
- The "red sky" season of TMNT
- Mighty Max (sort of. a lot of episodes were standalone but there was a larger overarching storyline)
- Reboot
- Beast Wars

Oh poo poo Conan! I watched the poo poo out of that back in the day and then totally forgot it existed.

Geo Fixer
Jan 10, 2012

"Freedom lies in being bold."
-Robert Frost


Funky Valentine posted:

The cool thing about all the Marvel animated series from the 90s is that they all were kind of terrible yet have become lodged in peoples' brains as the "definitive" version of those characters and stories (Gambit and Jubilee owe their careers to X-Men TAS and the Spider-man TAS version of the Black Suit/Venom saga has completely supplanted the original comics version to a ridiculous degree.)


Beast Wars is a weird way to spell Animated.

Because I spelled it correctly. Animated is only second best.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


The United States posted:

Batman TAS and Superman TAS were indeed highly episodic but they did have soft continuity that becomes much more apparent when you take a look at them now on HBO Max.

I want to say that Justice League Unlimited was probably the one with the best continuity?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The_Doctor posted:

I want to say that Justice League Unlimited was probably the one with the best continuity?

That's when they go all in on story arcs, yeah, and even start bringing back stuff from STAS that had been seemingly forgotten. (Lex being possessed by Brainiac) And there's a few intersecting storylines in JLU, with the Cadmus arc and the League's reputation, the rise of the totally-not-Legion of Doom, and individual arcs with Green Arrow, and John and Shayera.

Parrotine
Dec 19, 2012

Wolverine with Parrots!


Ghost Leviathan posted:

That's when they go all in on story arcs, yeah, and even start bringing back stuff from STAS that had been seemingly forgotten. (Lex being possessed by Brainiac) And there's a few intersecting storylines in JLU, with the Cadmus arc and the League's reputation, the rise of the totally-not-Legion of Doom, and individual arcs with Green Arrow, and John and Shayera.

One of the best continuity callbacks was the Starro invasion in Batman Beyond hailing from that Lobo episode of Superman TAS, that was really cool to see play out.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an



Ghost Leviathan posted:

the rise of the totally-not-Legion of Doom,
The funny part here is that the showrunners weren't allowed to call them the Legion of Doom despite having most of the original roster due to what I believe were rights issues but the DVDs just drop the pretense and call them the Legion of Doom outright.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


The_Doctor posted:

I want to say that Justice League Unlimited was probably the one with the best continuity?

it definitely did, but it was also a mid 00s show.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

Covok posted:

Maybe it's that I am trans and swim in trans circles, but I see that take fairly often when Danny Phantom is brought up.

Fair enough, I mainly just remember DP as a show with a fairly unique premise (to this day I can't really think of any superheroes with "ghost powers" aside from like, literal ghosts like Deadman from DC) that I really liked, I never really followed any fandom of it; there's probably a lot of unique readings/fan stuff that I've never heard of.

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 12, 2021

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

An aspect I liked in the season that everyone hated was how Danny's powers were evolving - I liked the idea that the ghost-breath was part of a natural coldness in ghosts that Danny could tap into for ice powers.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


i liked danny developing more powers, but the one thing that grinded my gears was that the ghostly wail became his most powerful ability. i mean, it's a cool attack on its own, but also seems kind of... basic?

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Hereís our first look at the upcoming Netflix He-Man sequel:

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/masters-of-the-universe-revelation-first-look-netflix-kevin-smith/

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Looks a bit like the 2000s one from my memory.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



MonsterEnvy posted:

Looks a bit like the 2000s one from my memory.

Yeah, Iím getting that vibe too (looks decent at the very least though but Iíll have to see it in motion before passing final judgment).

I am curious how theyíre going to make a direct sequel to a 30+ year old cartoon accessible to new viewers though.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Oh wow that looks exactly like what the 2002 reboot would look like with slightly updated character designs, right down to Adam/He-Man being a Shazam situation instead of the same size.



I wonder if it will bring back sexy handsome skeletor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vy4NTFcQbE

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Also, Mark Hamill as Skeletor is an inspired casting choice (I wonder how much of the Joker will wind up finding its way into his performance)

I guess this means the 1990 series isnít canon anymore then

Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 14, 2021

Potsticker
Jan 13, 2006




Anime Eyes Orko is very disturbing.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


oh good, glad i'm not the only one that thought it looked super similar to the 2002 series.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



As someone else mentioned, I like that Adam and He-Man actually look like they could be different people this time around (as opposed to the original where they pretty much looked exactly the same except the former wore more clothes)

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


i've mentioned it before, but it's such a shame that the 2002 series turned out to be kind of lame. especially since it had (on paper) all the ingredients for what could have been a top tier series. the animation in particular was probably the best for that period for an american show. hopefully this new one is better

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Mr Interweb posted:

i've mentioned it before, but it's such a shame that the 2002 series turned out to be kind of lame. especially since it had (on paper) all the ingredients for what could have been a top tier series. the animation in particular was probably the best for that period for an american show. hopefully this new one is better

Despite its reputation in the fanbase I actually kind of have a soft spot for SPoP and wouldnít mind the creators taking another crack at the franchise.

Also am I correct in saying there are two He-Man cartoons on the horizon (this and another show thatís more of a straight reboot)? If so, do we know anything about the latter yet?

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



...i was going to say that it looks like if they had made a He-Man cartoon in the early 00s. Forgot all about the He-Man cartoon from that exact era.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


I was kinda hoping they'd change things more like She-Ra instead of just making the 80s cartoon style but now digitally animated.

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003



Xelkelvos posted:

I was kinda hoping they'd change things more like She-Ra instead of just making the 80s cartoon style but now digitally animated.
this is Powerhouse Animation (Castlevania) rather than Dreamworks, as Dreamworks ended their partnership with Netflix and now works with Hulu

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Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Xelkelvos posted:

I was kinda hoping they'd change things more like She-Ra instead of just making the 80s cartoon style but now digitally animated.

Apparently thereís a straight reboot of MOTU coming in addition to Revelations but I think itís being handled by a different team.

But yeah. seeing Dreamworks take a crack at the He-Man side of things could have been interesting.

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