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So is there anything new coming this year besides that weird knight show? Justice League Action doesn't seem to have gotten a schedule listing yet and the rest of Powerpuff 2016 seems to have become trapped in Boomerang rerun limbo, even if it apparently got a second season back in may..Also Jesus Christ, the wikipedia article goes on longer than even mister enders in how people had issues with this show. The Unicorn Episode was supposed to be a transgendered reference? Holy poo poo, show!
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Jan 7, 2017 00:13
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Crabtree posted:The Unicorn Episode was supposed to be a transgendered reference? Holy poo poo, show! Actually according to the writers it wasn't but the execs tried to pass it off as one when promoting the show
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Jan 7, 2017 00:23
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Going by wikipedia, here's what the major networks have in store this year. Nickelodeon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwHzvRNSjvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTAhSrTrIw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRb1AOxMBK8 (this already exists as a webseries but apparently they're expanding it into a full show) Cartoon Network: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFUtDEynmc also yet another Ben 10 series that I'm not going to bother grabbing a video of because  Disney Channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-0aApimmHo  (as far as I can tell, there's no video of this anywhere on the internet)
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Jan 7, 2017 00:32
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Pakled posted:also yet another Ben 10 series that I'm not going to bother grabbing a video of because Wait is this different from the one they just released last year? If so I'm not seeing anything online.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:42
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readingatwork posted:Wait is this different from the one they just released last year? If so I'm not seeing anything online. Ah, it looks like it showed up in the "future releases" list on Wikipedia because it's not premiering until February in the US, but it premiered a few months ago in Australia and the UK.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:46
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Pakled posted:Disney Channel: Disney's also coming out with this in the spring (from Aaron Springer, the guy behind Korgoth of Barbaria, also known for working on Spongebob, Samurai Jack, and the mickey mouse shorts) https://twitter.com/catiewayne/status/799028788721913856
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Jan 7, 2017 01:21
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Oh okay, Justice League Action is like once at 7 am on a Saturday. They really don't care about the effort or at least talent put into that show if they're giving it the pokemon treatment.
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Jan 7, 2017 16:35
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It's funny how Saturday morning used to be prime real estate for cartoons, but it's pretty much a death sentence now.
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Jan 7, 2017 16:41
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Waffleman_ posted:It's funny how Saturday morning used to be prime real estate for cartoons, but it's pretty much a death sentence now. Depends on when and how much you're shown. 7 am is garbage for even kids but TTGO or We Bare Bears can do just fine having the rest of the week to work with and having a few hours a day. Although I have no idea what the metrics are for streaming shows since they also let you watch episodes early online. So ultimately Saturday Morning and TV itself has become obsolete more than fallen from grace.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:47
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7am Saturday would probably be something like MMPR reruns, or Eek! the Cat, or Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. 7 am is pretty much the hyperactive kids just waking up sitting with their cereal. 6 am was the stuff you hardly gave a crap about (DBZ on some affiliate). 9 or 10ish would be your prime toy-buying audience. The other thing to remember is that there used to be a whole infrastructure to pin those showtimes on. It's something to plop CardCaptors on at 7 when MiB is on at 8. Do the same when the lead-out is some EduTainment show about Fish Vets or Livestock Wranglers or (ugh) infomercials and it's totally different.
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Jan 8, 2017 03:38
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Sooo, 1980s-90s Saturday Morning... NBC was the first to bow out of Saturday morning, but they had Disney's Gummy Bears, which was basically the first real cornerstone of the future Disney Afternoon era of TV animation, going on at the same time as a bunch of miscellaneous stuff: The Snorks from Hanna-Barbera, Kissyfur which was something Saban tossed together for DIC, and the Alvin cartoon from Ruby Spears. Alvin was always one of the last things to air on Saturday, and always seemed to be popular in the mid to late-80s when Bart Simpson was barely a segment on the Tracy Ullman Show. NBC's last notable cartoon was the Captain N, where Nintendo and a number of third parties decided to play fast and loose with their IP rights. It was really weird, because DIC was doing that travesty at the same time they were also doing an okay if workman like job with the Mario/Zelda cartoons they were syndicating. Excuuuse me, Princess! At some point, NBC decided golf was more profitable than cartoons, and that was that. CBS had precious little until 1987 or so, when they got three shots in the arm: Pee-Wee's Playhouse, Garfield & Friends, and Ninja Turtles. Motherfuckin' Garfield was like that show that would not die, probably because the Lorenzo Music era Garfield stuff isn't as bad as the strip or the cartoons we have now. Pee-Wee had a built-in audience of parents thanks to his appearances on the weird funky early days of HBO and his SNL connections (this was the same era where Ed Grimley had a cartoon and it seemed for a while that baby boomers were making their kids watch sanitized SNL skits that were more for their enjoyment than the kids). TMNT is the toy ratings machine. Disney, before moving everything to ABC, ran some weird experimental stuff on CBS like Marsupilami. Because before Disney owned ABC they were basically everywhere. ABC started off with a bunch of toy commercial series, and then Disney began taking more and more of the schedule away from the Care Bear and Pound Puppies stuff. Disney moved Gummy Bears there next to Pooh when NBC folded. Capital Cities basically gave Disney the right to do what they will with the schedule wanted even before their eventual merger; and so stuff like ReBoot, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Bump in the Night took it in the shins for their wishes. FOX is basically a 90s thing, built around their M-F afternoon block running a few re-runs and then throwing in a couple odd Saturday exclusives like Carmen Sandiego, Bobby's World, Eek The Cat, X-MEN, Godzilla, Big Guy & Rusty, etc. Their downfall came from throwing every one of these more expensive(?) Saturday shows against Pokémon and watching them wither and die, and then cancelling it because it wasn't as popular as Pokémon. I remember that Godzilla cartoon that was a quasi-sequel of the Zilla-USA movie was actually a better portrayal than the movie in many ways and then got demolished because it only could hold an audience against Pokémon for about three weeks. Marvel continued the X-Men animated line elsewhere. At some point WB decided to go weekdays and pulled Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and Batman off Fox to it's own network. Fox ended with Saban importing practically anything in order to fill the Warners void. FilthyImp posted:7am Saturday would probably be something like MMPR reruns, or Eek! the Cat, or Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. 7 am is pretty much the hyperactive kids just waking up sitting with their cereal. 7AM on Fox was almost always prime Bobby's World time. That show had little to no merchandising to speak of (being a Howie Mandel passion project) and was aimed at the small children that would be watching Sesame Street M-F at that time. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 04:43
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And then we got Fighting Foodons. The End.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:01
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The Silver Snail posted:And then we got Fighting Foodons. The End. I passed out or aged out of the market before that point. Never made it further than Flint The Time Detective and Xyber 9 before I realized that "wait a minute, most of this stuff is terrible." EDIT: Looking at when those shows aired, apparently I was 17 at the point I threw in the towel on Saturday Morning Cartoons. So, uh, yeah. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 05:08
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The Silver Snail posted:And then we got Fighting Foodons. The End. Fighting Foodons was the FoxBox era, which was a nice little reboot of the Fox SatAm lineup after the 90s mainstays fell apart. It sucked but it tried some interesting things (Ultraman Tiga was run to make up for losing Power Rangers, and it birthed the 2000-era reboot of TMNT). I can't remember if it was 4Kids or Saban doing the programming for that though. It's also when Anime! started making waves in the US thanks to the effects of Toonami reinvigorating Sailor Moon and DBZ. All the remaining programmers wanted to capture their own little Japanese lighting in a bottle so they started licensing popular shows -- FOX got Digimon years before to counter the Pokemania and did ok (but also grabbed Escaflowne and well, that didn't do OK at all), WB Kids found CardCaptors and eventually YuGiOh. I always wonder if Ultimate Muscle failed because of the terrible dub, or because of quality. Craptacular! posted:Sooo, 1980s-90s Saturday Morning... quote:At some point, NBC decided golf was more profitable than cartoons, and that was that. quote:Marvel continued the X-Men animated line elsewhere. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 05:22
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FilthyImp posted:I always wonder if Ultimate Muscle failed because of the terrible dub, or because of quality. Nope. The dub was the best thing 4Kids ever did. Didn't they get more episodes made from Japan? Now Japan probably hated it. I didn't care for how old they made Kinnikuman, either.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:27
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The height of Saturday morning cartoons was X-Men, The Tick, and Eek on Fox duking it out with Superman, Freakazoid, and Batman on WB. And I say that not only because I was at an impressionable age in the development of my aesthetic sensibilities when all that was going on, ala that one Tom the Dancing Bug comic.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:29
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FilthyImp posted:Fighting Foodons was the FoxBox era, which was a nice little reboot of the Fox SatAm lineup after the 90s mainstays fell apart. It sucked but it tried some interesting things (Ultraman Tiga was run to make up for losing Power Rangers, and it birthed the 2000-era reboot of TMNT). I can't remember if it was 4Kids or Saban doing the programming for that though. So now with nothing, Fox hired 4Kids to do a block I barely knew existed.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:37
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I grew up in the 90s, and I watched the whole thing slowly slide away. WB was always the mainstay with the most hit shows I wanted to watch, but Fox had a couple good shows too. Once in a blue moon there'd be something on the channel in between those two that would be worth watching (maybe it was ABC?). Fox was the first of the two to give up the ghost, and WB was still just barely holding on when I stopped watching, I wouldn't be surprised if there's still some token effort now. Other than that, there were the cable channels, which were probably a big part of what killed saturday morning cartoons. Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon didn't do much special in particular, (Cartoon Network was actually making a big push for friday to be their special day, maybe they didn't want to directly compete with saturday) but they were always there; later in the day Cartoon Network might've put on a movie. The Fox Family channel had some kind of Tokyopop TV block with things like Monster Rancher, Flint the Time Detective, and Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go, which was neat to check out. Outside of the Tokyopop section, they ran things like the Spider-Man cartoon. They also dissolved away at some point quietly. There was an elusive prey though--I knew as a kid that there were some shows that only came on in the early hours of the morning, and I could never could catch much of them aside from the tail end of episodes, so my child mind was filled with wonder as to how good these shows must be, and what else could possibly be beyond the horizon. Those were things like Mega Man, Beast Wars, and Mighty Max.
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Jan 8, 2017 07:19
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I remember the entire Fox Kids to Fox Box to 4Kids TV thing as I watched shows on every single block. The conversation here is loving fascinating. I don't know if I have enough to contribute in a huge post, but I suppose I could answer questions? I do remember meeting the Fox Kids host Theresa. At least she was the host for Fox 42's "Fox Kids". I also have a lot of their magazines. FilthyImp posted:... 4Kids did the programming for Fox Box, from what I recall. TMNT was basically the best cartoon they had. Their dubbing was atrocious on anime like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Escaflowne, but TMNT is the one show they did right. It was weird to me because TMNT would have scenarios that would be edited out of their anime dubs.
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Jan 8, 2017 11:16
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The last posts have been pretty great, just the names of the shows alone bring back such memories of mediocrity from the majority of them. I didn't even think at the time how hit shows like pokemon would be a death sentence to everything else on TV at the same time, working on your show and month by month seeing others go up on the chopping block of the pokemon time slot must of been nerve wracking wondering if it'll be your show next.
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Jan 8, 2017 11:21
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:The last posts have been pretty great, just the names of the shows alone bring back such memories of mediocrity from the majority of them. As a kid you wouldn't know the industry buzz, but if you were a fan of a show, you could feel it dying on the vine. Sometimes a show was blatant in calling out it's own cancellation, like the Arrested Development third season ("The HBO won't have us, what now?" "Well I think it's showtime!") For example, ReBoot's second season was kicked all over the schedule by the now Disney-managed ABC, to the point that the best thing a fan could do is check every week's print schedule to see where it would be next. I'm not certain if the directors actually named the bad guy's tanks "Armored Binome Carriers" just so they could make this joke, but the last episode ABC would air concluded with a guy yelling, "The ABCs have turned on us! Traitorous dogs!" Even if you were ten years old you saw what they just slipped under the radar. And then they ended it with a cliffhanger whose resolution was only seen in Canada for many years. Pokémon was simply a case of Fox letting perfect be the enemy of the good. That show started out syndicated (keep in mind it was known as "that cartoon that caused Japanese kids to have seizures") and Fox lost out on the rights to it when it turned out to be popular, so they sought to destroy it and just kept hurting themselves. Eventually they began preparing to move stuff off affiliates anyways: If Saban hadn't packed up and left with a bunch of Disney Dollars, Fox had plans to turn The Family Channel into the Fox/Saban equivalent of Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 11:39
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Craptacular! posted:Fox hired 4Kids to do a block. I will never understand how 4kids got as influential as they did. They were quite literally The Worst Licensing Company. Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I didn't even think at the time how hit shows like pokemon would be a death sentence to everything else on TV at the same time, working on your show and month by month seeing others go up on the chopping block of the pokemon time slot must of been nerve wracking wondering if it'll be your show next. If I remember correctly Power Rangers had a similar effect on the market for a while.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:15
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All through my childhood I blamed power rangers for displacing my beloved x-men cartoon, as it had about three episodes before vanishing for months at a time right at the same time power rangers started and appeared all over the fox schedule, weekdays and Saturday. It never once occurred to me that the reason for it was that x-men took a long time to make and power rangers could be spit out assembly-line style with their non-union cast and 50% recycled content. It was probably a dream come true for the network bosses.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:29
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Jack Gladney posted:All through my childhood I blamed power rangers for displacing my beloved x-men cartoon, as it had about three episodes before vanishing for months at a time right at the same time power rangers started and appeared all over the fox schedule, weekdays and Saturday. readingatwork posted:I will never understand how 4kids got as influential as they did. They were quite literally The Worst Licensing Company. Anyway, it's kind of Easy Mode when you consider they were responsible for Pokémon coming to the states. Being on the ground floor for that gave them quite a cache going forward. Plus they also grabbed YuGiOh while kept them going for a long while. i think it's also important to note that the concept of 'good' dubbing/translation work was still a nebulous term back then, especially for a children's cartoon. We were lucky if the main character from Sailor Moon wasn't renamed to something like Buffy Luna, and that her eating a rice balls wasn't scripted as 'Yuuummm! This rice-covered donut is delicious!' quote:If I remember correctly Power Rangers had a similar effect on the market for a while. From what I remember, MMPR mania went into overdrive once the Green ranger 5-parter aired. Which means all the Ranger-likes went into the schedules roughly at the height of original PR popularity. In any event, Saban learned that the biggest limitation to Tokus was the amount of footage they could lift from Japanese shows. They also learned that throwing armor on people didn't make everything a hit (Mystic Knights of Tir-Na-Nog, and can you believe Big Bad Beetleborgs got like 3 seasons). Speaking of Saban, the guy's had an interesting and ambitious run through entertainment. He pops up quite often in things you wouldn't believe -- he composed the music for the Rainbow Brite movie, and was onboard with a ton of cartoons in various capacities. He almost mangled Sailor Moon when they grabbed the license early on, turning it from a cartoon to a live-action preteen girls series (featuring a character in a wheelchair because the 90s) with animated segments when they transform into windsurfing space sailor girls, in a move that would make 4Kids look like the Criterion Collection. But he stumbled into MMPR instead, and got really, really close to making a huge children's entertainment empire. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 19:52
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readingatwork posted:If I remember correctly Power Rangers had a similar effect on the market for a while. For the height of it's ratings, Power Rangers was a M-F show sandwiched between Tiny Toons and Batman. It's Saturday episodes were always reruns. FilthyImp posted:I actually liked Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad, and it's kind of insane that show lasted a whole season or two considering they didn't have the money-saving grace of Japanese footage to fall back on. Probably the weirdest success story of the second-tier toku was VR Troopers. Saban already had MMPR, and this was clearly not going to be as successful as PR and did not have the same level of production and seemed like a likely cancellation. But then at some point it stepped up and began following through on it's drama, what with the lead's missing father turning out to be one of the villain's minions. Then the quest turned from "find my dad" to "free my Dad from the chief villain" and that culminated in a multi-parter where he was actually successful. Then it somehow managed to land another season and had to transition to a different source footage with both heroes and villain evolving to new costumes. Being syndicated probably saved that show's rear end, because if it was on Fox it would have been cancelled after the initial batch of episodes. The funny thing is that if the Evil Green Ranger five-parter hadn't turned the flagging MMPR into a massive hit, Jason David Frank was originally going to be recast as VR's lead. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 21:00
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FilthyImp posted:He almost mangled Sailor Moon when they grabbed the license early on, turning it from a cartoon to a live-action preteen girls series (featuring a character in a wheelchair because the 90s) with animated segments when they transform into windsurfing space sailor girls, in a move that would make 4Kids look like the Criterion Collection. But he stumbled into MMPR instead, and got really, really close to making a huge children's entertainment empire.  "Saban Moon" wasn't actually made by Saban, it was done by Toon Makers. The company that did the live-action segments worked on Power Rangers, but Saban had nothing to do with that abomination. Some cels and the script from that project popped up on Ebay a couple of years ago and gave us a better look at what could have been. Prince Darien/Endymion is pretty much Prince Eric from the Little Mermaid with a different outfit.
Death Bear fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 21:22
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Craptacular! posted:For the height of it's ratings, Power Rangers was a M-F show sandwiched between Tiny Toons and Batman. It's Saturday episodes were always reruns. Funny thing about Syber Squad, not only did it borrow it's fight footage from Gridman but the two shows have almost the exact same plot as well. The show even got a proper ending of sorts but then they decided to extend it out further by just reusing Gridman footage from previous episodes and adding new dialogue. Craptacular! posted:Probably the weirdest success story of the second-tier toku was VR Troopers. Saban already had MMPR, and this was clearly not going to be as successful as PR and did not have the same level of production and seemed like a likely cancellation. But then at some point it stepped up and began following through on it's drama, what with the lead's missing father turning out to be one of the villain's minions. Then the quest turned from "find my dad" to "free my Dad from the chief villain" and that culminated in a multi-parter where he was actually successful. Then it somehow managed to land another season and had to transition to a different source footage with both heroes and villain evolving to new costumes. VR Troopers was actually mashed together from three seperate Metal Hero shows. The main character and villian came from Metalder, the other two members came from Spielban and the main character's new form from later in the show came from Space Sheriff Shaider. I'm pretty sure the concept of the talking dog was also directly adapted from one of the aforementioned Metal Hero shows but I forget which one. Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 22:07
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Larryb posted:Funny thing about Syber Squad, not only did it borrow it's fight footage from Gridman but the two shows have almost the exact same plot as well. The show even got a proper ending of sorts but then they decided to extend it out further by just reusing Gridman footage from previous episodes and adding new dialogue. What I primarily remember of it is that the reused footage didn't look of a noticably lower quality than the domestic footage, which was impressive for a show from 1994. PR started choreographing it's own fight scenes more and more because Toei never completely eliminated the grainy film feel until 2000.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:14
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I fuckin' loved Syber Squad, had shittons of the toys, and as an added bonus of course it had Tim Curry!
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Jan 8, 2017 22:44
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Trebuchet King posted:I fuckin' loved Syber Squad, had shittons of the toys, and as an added bonus of course it had Tim Curry! Probably the biggest named actor we've had in an American toku series aside from maybe Vernon Wells in Power Rangers Time Force (Bryan Cranston voiced a few monsters in MMPR as well but I don't think he really had much of an acting career at that point). Actually, come to think of it has Tim Curry ever played a character that wasn't a villain? Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 22:56
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Larryb posted:Actually, come to think of it has Tim Curry ever played a character that wasn't a villain? Once or twice.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:39
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Oh yeah, forgot about that show.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:42
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He's only evil in two Clue endings and one of those was a deleted scene.
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Jan 9, 2017 02:53
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Craptacular! posted:Sooo, 1980s-90s Saturday Morning... You, uh, haven't watched the Super Mario Bros Super Show in a while, have you? It's on Netflix now. I recognized it was poo poo when I was 10 and it was originally on tv, but it still manages to be way worse watching it now. I remember at some point around when the SNES Ultraman game came out, some station, maybe Fox, aired the TV show at like 6:30am on Saturdays, given the Power Rangers treatment. I remember almost nothing about it but I did get up that early a couple times to watch it. raditts fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 05:48
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raditts posted:You, uh, haven't watched the Super Mario Bros Super Show in a while, have you? Compare the Mario cartoon to Nintendo's presentation of Mario these days. Mario is still an Italian stereotype, he's just less burly sounding. Toad is a screechy voiced gremlin that is no better or worse. Today's Peach has been Disneyfied to the max and is like Minnie Mouse without the personality. And I'll be damned if Bronx Bowser isn't the best Bowser, even if I think that character in games shouldn't have voice acting at all. "I'M GONNA GET YOUSE LOUSY PLUMMAS"
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Jan 9, 2017 06:45
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Wasn't the Super Mario Bros Super Show also the origin of Luigi's characterization as a coward?
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Jan 9, 2017 06:51
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Death Bear posted:
Thank you. It drives me nuts when people keep getting that wrong. Saban did some poo poo in its time (and its current output besides Dino Charge is middling at best) but the house that scored He-man (no, seriously, Saban and fellow partner in crime Shuki Levi scored He Man) hand no hand in that. And 4kids didn't do Cardcaptors or Megaman NT Warrior Axess
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Jan 9, 2017 07:16
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raditts posted:I remember at some point around when the SNES Ultraman game came out, some station, maybe Fox, aired the TV show at like 6:30am on Saturdays, given the Power Rangers treatment. I remember almost nothing about it but I did get up that early a couple times to watch it. I can't remember if it was fox or syndicated on Channel 13 in LA. But yeah it was kind of quietly put out of its misery. It existed in a weird twilight area of being too wordy and concerned about environmentalism for kids, but not having much to offer for adults or teens. Plus I remember the production values being pretty good for the time. Ultraman Tiga was a lot more light hearted, but for some reason the Ultraman's don't capture an audience the way that PR does. Pakled posted:Wasn't the Super Mario Bros Super Show also the origin of Luigi's characterization as a coward? This kind of evaporated by the time Mario3 was animated. SMBSS also had Capt. Lou Albano and The Mario dance. And Ernie Hudson in a Ghostbusterian episode. It wasn't bad, but the characterization in the Zelda show was odd (Link as a horndog rogue, Sprite as a Tinkerbell like jealous partner). Captain N was an outright mess but as a kid I don't really remember asking myself why MegaMan was a green midget or why Belmont was a surfer looking dude with a tan and too much ego. I just heard Video Game Concept stuff and went nuts. Ironically, that show where the radical tomato mascot and Bigfoot controlled by an NES pad teamed up to fight crime with a kid was a way better way to sell videogame related junk. That show was awesome.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:21
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I unironically love that Super Mario show. It's goofy, dumb, and most of the episodes are poorly thought-out parodies of pop culture stuff. But it's a pure, earnest 80s cartoon experience. One episode they forget to animate "Indiana Joes" face it's amazing.
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Jan 9, 2017 09:24
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I don't remember us having the entire Super Show in the UK, just the separate cartoons. I definitely never saw the live action segments.
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Jan 9, 2017 11:11
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