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Funky Valentine posted:Some modern cartoons still do the "object that will be interacted with is clearly not part of the background" thing even when the technology used should make that obsolete. A lot of them do. Most cartoons have a pretty different art style for the backgrounds for one thing, and even with modern technology and compositing on a computer, the backgrounds are just still images that the animation is layered on top of, meaning everything that the characters interact with isn't actually a part of the background and probably won't exactly match it. They do try to make it less obvious these days, though.
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May 6, 2021 20:00
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I think it's charming, like the dust pops they added to Infinity Train.
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May 6, 2021 20:08
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I don't know how to embedd Tumblr videos, the link below is three minute anime omake about animation cels. https://80sanime.tumblr.com/post/170886278376 YggiDee fucked around with this message at 21:07 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 20:57
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Funky Valentine posted:Some modern cartoons still do the "object that will be interacted with is clearly not part of the background" thing even when the technology used should make that obsolete. All that's really changed is how the characters are inked and painted, but most backgrounds are very much physical or imitation-physical media (ie Photoshop custom brushes) that are then brought in.
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May 6, 2021 21:03
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OK KO has an episode with a bunch of gags of KO becoming aware of (and driven mad by) animation rules like not being able to pick up the more detailed rock since it's a background element
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May 6, 2021 23:02
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cant cook creole bream posted:Are there actually still animations where every single frame is drawn? At the very least, the backgrounds in a still shot would be copy pasted, while the moving parts would appear as a layer. Yes actually! I think GF was done traditionally (albeit in a computer, not on cells). Though a lot of techniques from 3D animation have worked their way into the process these days including 3D models for complex shots and animation rigs for 2D characters that act like puppets you can manipulate. Electric Phantasm posted:hosed up that CGI cartoons still have not surpassed Jimmy Neutron. The reason 3D animation sucks most of the time boils down to 3 things: 1) Textures are a bitch. Seriously, getting skin to look like skin and cloth to look like cloth is a huge pain in the rear end and requites a ton of additional effort to light correctly. Most productions only put in the bare minimum amount of effort so everything ends up having that distinct plastic-y CGI look. 2) Every character requires a rig (a 3D puppet you move around). No exceptions. The advantage of rigs is that you create them once and can use them for every single episode going forward. There's a lot of up-front effort to make one of these but once it's there it's a relative breeze to use forever afterwards (It's also super cheap which is the main appeal to producers). The downside though is that this rig creation step is mandatory on EVERY character that appears, even stupid ones that will only appear for five seconds. So you either need to not have a ton of side characters or make really lovely rigs that look and move like rear end. You might also need to make additional rigs for certain scenes if you need to edit a character's shape in some way (a character imagining themselves taller for example). What this leaves you with is barren worlds devoid of life and side characters that often look like rear end and clash with the main cast. 3) Using squash/stretch techniques that are relatively easy in 2D animation are a huge pain in 3D which makes most characters feel very artificial in how they move. In 2D if I want to make a character's fist larger when they punch somebody you just draw it bigger. In CGI you need to manipulate the rig itself which is a ton of extra work and usually not worth the effort. Though to 3D artist's credit you are starting to see this change, possibly due to more flexible new technology. And yeah, 2D has some serious limitations as well but I'd take a show that looks like Johnny Test over pretty much any TV tier 3D animated show any day. It's not even close. E: And yes there are good CG shows. Wakfu/Dofus for example looks incredible.
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May 7, 2021 15:41
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Which makes all the impressive stuff people do with SFM all the more so considering just how cursed that program is and how full of "Source Spaghetti" it is
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May 7, 2021 21:20
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Just like Live Action, once assets are made in CG and backgrounds and props are completed, they can be reused again and again from different available POVs as needed and it can be useful for a TV series as a cost saving measure (see Star Wars: Rebels S1)
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May 7, 2021 23:55
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Yeah, there are economies of scale with 3D CGI, but you need to spend more money and effort up top stockpiling assets or else the show will seem pretty barebones. There's much less room for a show to find its groove, because whatever you start out with, you're gonna be stuck with for a long while. Technically non-CGI shows also have to deal with creating a bunch of characters and settings and junk in the first season, but it's easier for them to just fill out space with one-off side characters without it becoming some kind of ordeal. They can even upgrade one of those one-offs into a fulltime character if they want, and just tweak the design a bit to make it a little more distinctive.
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May 8, 2021 00:47
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IIRC the Sonic Boom show blew a good chunk of its budget early on modeling a bunch of background randos with unobtrusive designs and then was forced to give said randos prominent roles in episodes, with only having enough budget to make the occasional more distinctive looking episode specific character.
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May 8, 2021 01:32
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Clone Wars had to blow a lot of their time and money on set dressing iirc, but that was because they saved money on having a lot of the background characters be literal Clones or mass produced robots. They still ended up doing an episode that focused on Padme and Jar Jar Binks
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May 8, 2021 03:07
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:IIRC the Sonic Boom show blew a good chunk of its budget early on modeling a bunch of background randos with unobtrusive designs and then was forced to give said randos prominent roles in episodes, with only having enough budget to make the occasional more distinctive looking episode specific character. That's my guess at it anyway, it really starts to show later on. The CG TMNT on the other hand has the opposite problem where New York seems almost deserted early on as they lack background characters, but in later seasons it seemed to get better as they actually got the budget to make new characters and new settings. The earliest and best CG shows did it smart by designing the show's structure and setting around the limitations of the medium. Beast Wars famously couldn't afford to have tons of one-off characters like the original Transformers, so instead they ended up having a more tight character-focused narrative. Reboot, meanwhile, literally takes place inside a computer, so the characters looking like then-contemporary video game characters is acceptable. (because they basically are) It's all a matter of treating it as another tool and knowing how to use it properly, which a lot of people in charge of these things sadly don't.
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May 8, 2021 07:39
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Jenny Nicholson is brewing a video that'll touch on some depths of cheap CGI. https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/1390841028177915904
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May 9, 2021 00:06
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SlothfulCobra posted:Jenny Nicholson is brewing a video that'll touch on some depths of cheap CGI. Tbh I love this kinda stuff
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May 9, 2021 00:14
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quote:It has nine sequels, The Swan Princess: Escape from Castle Mountain (1997), The Swan Princess: The Mystery of the Enchanted Kingdom (1998), The Swan Princess Christmas (2012), The Swan Princess: A Royal Family Tale (2014), The Swan Princess: Princess Tomorrow, Pirate Today (2016), The Swan Princess: Royally Undercover (2017), The Swan Princess: A Royal Myztery (2018), The Swan Princess: Kingdom of Music (2019), and The Swan Princess: A Royal Wedding (2020), which deviate even further from the ballet. Nine?? 2020????
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May 9, 2021 01:09
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The Swan Princess Cinematic Universe This is my favorite cover because The Swan Princess Wearing Shades is amazing Assepoester fucked around with this message at 01:36 on May 9, 2021 |
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May 9, 2021 01:33
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I think I keep mixing it up with Trumpet of the Swan.
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May 9, 2021 04:07
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That was a movie?!
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May 9, 2021 04:32
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Jesus christ the plot description of The Swan Princess: A Royal Myztery sounds like it could've been a episode of season 1 WestWorld or possibly even Lost.quote:Scully tried tracking down the Man in Black, but is being chased by a Bogg ghost named Hunch, who wishes to capture Scully for helping the “pink bellies” escape the island while they were shipwrecked. Scully distracts the Boggs with a trial, and manages to escape and tell Puffin to get Rogers' help. Lord Rogers has a glass jar used for holding a ghost, as glass is the only thing that can hold a ghost, as well as a ghost rope.
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May 9, 2021 05:15
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It's not Land Before Time, but only barely.
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May 9, 2021 05:26
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Wow. Nine sequels? That's kinda amazing, considering I never met anyone else who even saw the first movie. I always assumed that was a complete one hit thing. In retrospect, I liked it as a kid. The scene where the orchestra has to act as prey in the hunting training was fun. I'm seriously, utterly baffled by this. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:00 on May 9, 2021 |
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May 9, 2021 10:56
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mycot posted:Nine?? 2020???? The first two DTV sequels I get, but waiting fourteen years to revive the franchise with a Christmas special of all things is just bizarre.
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May 9, 2021 17:13
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The late 90s and early 00s was the height of DTV sequel hell thanks to Disney leading the way, I imagine if they keep making money they just keep making them.
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May 9, 2021 17:44
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AEW thread got me talking Danny Phantom and I figured i'd crosspost MorningMoon posted:I just feel like there'd be more, louder, fans if it weren't for all the Butch stuff and that last season. Vlad, the billionaire so detached from reality that he is incapable of understanding the concept of love and gets many chances in the show to prove if he's worthy of any kind of love only to ruin entire timelines due to his self-inflicted inhumanity, is perfect right now when we got all these billionaire subhumans in the public eye. Vlad was such a good loving villain. Season 3 doesn't count. S2 he's so unhinged yet ends thoroughly defeated
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May 10, 2021 01:00
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Danny Phantom was about 2/3rds of a really good show and we don't talk about the other third. Also I liked the conceit where all of his enemies knew his secret identity, it was the parents who he was worried would dissect him. Just felt like a nice spin.
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May 10, 2021 01:25
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I usually don't care for superheroes that hide their identity from their direct family, but I loved the spin where Vlad knew, but couldn't use it to blackmail Danny because Danny knew his parents would love him even with the ghost stuff. Made all the sweeter in those couple episodes where they find out and it just reaffirms to Danny that he has loving parents.
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May 10, 2021 01:42
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Besides the quality drop in the show's third season the show's biggest problem is that it's a tad too blatant with how much of it's formula it steals from Ditko era Spider-Man
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May 10, 2021 03:17
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Just found this thread after binging Infinity Train seasons 1 to 4. What a ride. Is there anything quite like it? In the past few months I also watched Owl House (also great), if that helps.
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May 10, 2021 06:53
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MorningMoon posted:I usually don't care for superheroes that hide their identity from their direct family, but I loved the spin where Vlad knew, but couldn't use it to blackmail Danny because Danny knew his parents would love him even with the ghost stuff. Made all the sweeter in those couple episodes where they find out and it just reaffirms to Danny that he has loving parents. And Danny outright tells Vlad that he has far more to lose for being exposed as a half-ghost freak of science than Danny does. Vlad actually does end up taking Danny's advice and gets a cat (that he names Maddy) later on iirc. It doesn't help much.
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May 10, 2021 07:16
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I feel like Danny Phantom wound up having an overarching story mostly by accident, and it's impressive how well it turned out when I really don't think there was ever really a plan for where it was going. Copying spiderman seems only natural for an episodic teenage superhero series.
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May 10, 2021 07:16
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I think the peak of Danny Phantom was the Ultimate Enemy movie, that was really good. Dark Danny/Dan Phantom (whatever name you prefer, I've seen a couple) was a cool concept and I liked that even though he was a ghost he wasn't only a threat to the humans, he also ruined the (after)lives of the other ghosts too by putting Johnny 13 in a wheelchair, ruining Ember's vocal chords and killing the Lunchlady, leaving the Box ghost a single father having to get competent to protect his daughter.
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May 10, 2021 07:33
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Artelier posted:Just found this thread after binging Infinity Train seasons 1 to 4. What a ride. Is there anything quite like it? I dunno how long you've been disconnected from the world of cartoons, but if this is your first time wading into the animation rennaisance of the last decade, then my #1 recommendation would be Steven Universe. I think it achieves a similar level of emotional maturity as Infinity Train.
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May 10, 2021 08:05
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Artelier posted:Just found this thread after binging Infinity Train seasons 1 to 4. What a ride. Is there anything quite like it? Amphibia might be up your alley. Also Kipo.
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May 10, 2021 10:16
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Yvonmukluk posted:Amphibia might be up your alley. I agree with both of these.
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May 10, 2021 11:11
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like Danny Phantom wound up having an overarching story mostly by accident, and it's impressive how well it turned out when I really don't think there was ever really a plan for where it was going. That's how I used to feel until my rewatch some years ago. Nickelodeon being Nickelodeon changed the episode order a lot, but watching it on the proper order makes it clear how thought-out the characters' arcs are. The first movie, Reign Storm, is absolutely just a season finale that ties everything together even if in airing they put it four episodes into the second season. Or the story of how Danny gets his chest symbol happening five episodes early in airing when it's tied to him becoming a realized superhero after Reign Storm and the first batch of S2 episodes where he gets to show off his competence by beating pairings of villains he used to struggle with on their own, and that giving momentum to why Danny turning bad would be a Bad Thing on the very next story. BioEnchanted posted:I think the peak of Danny Phantom was the Ultimate Enemy movie, that was really good. Dark Danny/Dan Phantom (whatever name you prefer, I've seen a couple) was a cool concept and I liked that even though he was a ghost he wasn't only a threat to the humans, he also ruined the (after)lives of the other ghosts too by putting Johnny 13 in a wheelchair, ruining Ember's vocal chords and killing the Lunchlady, leaving the Box ghost a single father having to get competent to protect his daughter. I like Reign Storm just a tad more because of how tight it wraps up a ton of story threads, but Ultimate Enemy is the best standalone story by a mile. Insanely cool what they get out of that character, and how Danny comes out of it. The ghost wail coming back at the end of the season as something Vlad never got and being a move that can wipe him out was great. Danny's still not stronger than Vlad, but Ultimate Enemy specifically gives Danny the start of a raw power edge
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May 10, 2021 12:43
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Artelier posted:Just found this thread after binging Infinity Train seasons 1 to 4. What a ride. Is there anything quite like it? Over the Garden Wall. It's short like a season of Infinity Train (10 episodes of 10-12min each) and has a lot of interesting banter between characters wandering through a "Wonderland" type scenario. And the voice cast is absurdly stacked.
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May 10, 2021 12:54
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Also Gravity Falls if you haven’t already seen it
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May 10, 2021 13:04
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Thank you for all the recs! I have already done Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall*, and Gravity Falls, all very good choices that slipped my mind when I posted. I will check out Amphibia and Kipo ASAP based on this! And maybe re-watch the rest, cartoons are good friends. * This is a yearly watch for me. I'M THE HIGHWAYMAN
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May 10, 2021 13:06
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I think you have a good point with it being easy to see the show as episodic. Nowadays, you watch a serialized show, and its pretty obvious what you're in for, whether you mean most modern cartoons, the explicitly storyline driven Avatar, or even something with a background arc that comes to fruition like Mystery Inc. But its really easy to come into Danny Phantom expecting something episodic only for the serialized elementd to sneak up on you. Maybe its because it was surrounded by shows like Jimmy Neutron and Fairly Odd Parents, so you were primed for more like that and didn't expect the serialization to hit.
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May 10, 2021 13:26
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Artelier posted:Thank you for all the recs! I have already done Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall*, and Gravity Falls, all very good choices that slipped my mind when I posted. DuckTales is another good choice.
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May 10, 2021 13:33
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