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Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



TV Zombie posted:

In that trailer, does it follow She-Ra's history in that she was originally trained as a bad guy? It doesn't have to follow the original, but I am just curious if this is a different take on the character.

Yeah, it was always that way. The original show didn't pay much attention to it, though - it was only really a thing in the TV movie debut, and featured in approximately zero episodes after that. More backstory than you could fit into the opening theme music wasn't really compatible with the 80s cartoon model. It certainly didn't inform She-Ra's character at all - as soon as she switched sides in the origin movie, she was an upstanding and totally non-conflicted superhero who took great pleasure in dunking on the Horde.

Bow lampshading "it's literally called the Evil Horde" in this trailer was a nod to the ludicrous way the old show told that origin story, where that was what the Horde straight up called themselves and Adora, who was always a beacon of radiant moral goodness, thought the Evil Horde were good guys because everyone she ever met lied to her and she was extremely credulous.

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Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



That is some good, good animation. It looks like they're beating the budget by using mostly dynamic poses with few inbetweens, so you get this jolty but super lively sequence of poses.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Also, the extradimensional beings in question are pretty much identical to the unnamed creature from Stephen King's It, down to the thing where one of them is buried beneath California, spreads evil in cycles throughout history, and we get flashbacks to various previous historical mystery gangs who were provoked into forming by its evil machinations, e.g. a gang of mystery-solving Gregorian monks accompanied by a talking donkey. The show even ends with a big finale where the mystery gang has to go underneath their home town to confront the extradimensional monster that has fomented centuries of evil before they finally defeat it and break the cycle.

Scooby can talk because of his ancestral links to this ancient evil, and all the previous talking animals were inevitably corrupted by its influence and turned on their mystery-solving teen friends.

It was a wacky show. Not always great, but extremely ambitious, and definitely a lot of fun.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



asecondduck posted:

Caught up with Voltron, started the Dragon Prince.

I'm actually impressed at how CGI animation has developed to the point that it can be a reasonably good imitation of, well, an ATLA style "anime", especially in the action sequences. I'm way less impressed by the choice to only animate key frames during dialog scenes. The lack of fluidity reminds me more of early Archer more than anything else.

Also the intro was such a confusing loving infodump that I'm not sure what's going on besides elves and humans hate each other and there was a dragon but it's dead now. But I get the impression that's all I really need to know?

The elves and the humans used to live as one kingdom. Humans were the only people in that kingdom who had no "natural" magical qualities, but they co-existed alongside the rest. All of them practised magic, and they drew their magic from various natural sources like the sun and the tides, etc. Then a human wizard figured out how to draw magic from the trapped souls of magical beings, which is an obvious existential threat to magical beings who don't want to be killed and necromantically enslaved as energy sources.

Like, theoretically you can just generate dark magic energy by killing magic butterflies to cast small spells, but any elf or dragon or unicorn who extrapolates that logically is going to feel pretty nervous. So, the humans' use of this magic starts a civil war and fractures the kingdom in two. The humans "win" enough to defend their newfound border, and years later (just before the start of the show) kill the king of the storm dragons, who is the de facto leader of the magical beings' kingdom, using dark magic. This is seen as an unforgivable crime by the elves.

Now the two sides are locked in an intractable war against each other - the humans feel that the elves want to stop them from establishing parity with the elves' natural advantages, and the elves feel that the humans are genocidal ghouls who see magical creatures as spell fuel.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Argue posted:

I'm more or less enjoying it so far but I'm in the middle and I liked the beginning a lot more than the eps I'm currently on; towards the middle it's started feeling very mission-of-the-week with them meeting some quirky caricaturish characters for one-off adventures, which doesn't appeal to me so much.

This is the low point of the season, and once they get the character introductions out of the way, it improves from there. I had the same feeling.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



SardonicTyrant posted:

The Adora/Catra/Shadow Weaver dynamic was the high point of the season. It really feels like an abusive family, with Catra being the child SW didn't want.

Oh, and Bow. Bow knows exactly what sort of show he's in, and he loves it.

For real, it's a really interesting dynamic where Adora was the favourite child and Catra is straight up told that her mother only keeps her around as a toy for Adora, and if Adora lost interest in her, her only parental figure would just murder her. Meanwhile, Shadow Weaver feels free to torture and intimidate Catra. The scene where they fight straight up has Catra saying that Shadow Weaver's abuse "taught her how to dodge punches". It gets crazy dark, honestly, but it's also a nuanced portrayal.

I also like the subversion of the "face turn" episode near the end of the season. Two old friends, now enemies, are trapped in a magical labyrinth together and forced to work together while reliving memories from their past...and it just clarifies to Catra that she has every reason to be pissed at Adora and that she needs to dive further into villainy. None of what happened to them as children was Adora's fault, of course, but Catra is very justifiably traumatised into thinking that Adora even being present in her life guarantees that she's going to be treated as less than human, because it's been hammered into her psyche all her life that she's only allowed to live because Adora likes her.

Arguably as soon as Catra knew that - and she found it out at a very young age - their friendship could never be even or "real" again. Of course she has sublimated aggression towards Adora - Adora has had the power of life and death over her for her entire life up to now, when she finally sees a chance to free herself from Shadow Weaver and forge her own path.

Definitely the most interesting thing in the season. I really enjoyed it on the whole and am eager for more.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Yeah, He-Man and especially She-Ra are rare shows that still hold up as so bad it's good. The voices are hilarious, the plots are inane, and She-Ra is so ludicrously powerful that you often get the sense she's just toying with her enemies for fun.

Like, half the episodes follow the sequence, "the Horde has a new superweapon!". She-Ra then picks up the nearest gigantic object e.g. mountain, battleship, entire lakebed, and throws it at the new superweapon, effortlessly destroying it. She has to throw things all the time because Standards & Practises were very rigidly against her actually punching people or using her magic sword.

Also, there are some gorgeous painted backgrounds in She-Ra. The Fright Zone in the old show actually probably looks better than it does in the new one.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



vape queen posted:

Is it me or are the characters inconsistently scaled in nü She-Ra? There's some scenes in which supposed giantess She-Ra only has like half a head of height on Glimmer

I thought I noticed this a couple of times, but when I went back and checked it was just a perspective thing where She-Ra was standing closer to the "camera" than Glimmer. I don't think it was entirely 100% consistent, but maybe not to the extent of "they're barely different in height when she's supposed to be eight feet tall". I could have missed something, though!

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Also, it's the latest shibboleth for "I am getting mad at the SJWs!". I'm betting the vast majority of people who hate the new show for what it's done to the characters weren't exactly giant fans of an incredibly camp 80s kids' show featuring princesses, pegasi, and a rainbow elf called Loo-Kee that ran for 2 years before being cancelled. They're just looking for the next talking point that will allow them to rant about social justice gone mad.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



The basketball hair is an odd choice, but compelling.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Also season 2 has Bolin going from, "slightly goofy boy next door type" to "horny idiot clown", a characterisation from which he never really recovers. Also, it completely sells Korra down the river as a character and has all her character moments focus on how reasonable, smart Mako is always right and Korra is ruining both their relationship and her own life with her stupid wilful woman-ness.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



asecondduck posted:

Korra Season 1 is drat good tv up until Amon gets defeated. I went back and rewatched it about six months ago.

Season 2 is bad. The overarching plot isn't particularly interesting, the characters lose all sense of direction, and yeah, the animation sucks in the first half. It did give us Varrick though.

Season 3 is fantastic, straight up. Better than ATLA season one and roughly on par with ATLA season 3, in my opinion (it ain't got poo poo on ATLA season 2, though). The villians are compelling (Henry Rollins was an... odd choice, but I personally think it works), the animation is great, Jinora gets her arrow. Good stuff. If you hate what season 2 did to the characters, though, you aren't gonna find solace here, because everything that happened in S2 remains cannon. Oh well.

Season 4 is also very good, but not as good as season 3. Broken Korra isn't very fun, and Bolin and Varrick mostly exist for comedy (hey, remember when Bolin was, like, a real character in Season 1? I do), and the main plot devolving into CRAZY WOMAN MECHA SMASH was... disappointing, but it sticks the landing. Oh and the final scene kinda broke the internet. Well, Tumblr at least.

This is a very accurate description of the show, for anyone who's interested in watching it or part of it. Season 2 is painfully bad and a huge disappointment after Season 1, and Bolin's character pretty much never recovers even as the show gets better in 3 and 4.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



I feel like it has some really good examples (Kill La Kill is creepy and awful and definitely does sexualise young girls), but then its criticism of Steven Universe for being too "suggestive" thanks to some of the subtext around fusion and the fact that characters sometimes flirt with one another is really overreaching, and makes the whole thing come off a bit moral panic-y.

Also - the repeated suggestion that (textually adult) characters like Ruby, Sapphire and Peridot are equivalent to children because they're small, and therefore scenes where they have romantic tension with other people are too suggestive for kids. That just comes off as really dubious to me, especially since those same scenes are such an important part of the show's groundbreaking record on LGBT representation.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Yeah, the idea that the married couple who predate human civilisation are little kids because they're short is a huge overreach. Same with Peridot.

That said, there are some good points in the article, specifically about Studio Yotta associating with creeps. I just think it paints with too wide a brush, and kind of trips over its own feet in the process. I also don't think Rebecca Sugar's weird fanart is really equivalent to porn artists who are pumping out images of cartoon kids for people to masturbate to - I never got that vibe from her old stuff. It always felt like it was meant to be artistic and absurd, rather than a consumable piece of pornography.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



BioEnchanted posted:

My late grandmother used to have a bunch of VHS tapes of old cartoons that we'd watch when we visited, like TMNT and Beanie and Cecil, but I've just been reminded of the most interesting one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jGba6pZ0tY

Captain Zed and the Zee Zone. The idea is that Zed watches over peoples dreams and when the two villains attempt to corrupt them into nightmares, he shows up to stop them and restore the pleasant part of the dream.

It had some interesting concepts, like a child who felt powerless dreaming of being a Julius Caesar type leader, only for the Nightmares to show up and infiltrate his council, turning them against them acting as his Brutus and Cassius
.
Apparently about half the episodes only exist with almost inaudible audio. It's pretty close to lost, half the episodes are good enough quality, the linked one is one of the well preserved ones, but most of season 2 has the audio problems. All you can hear is White noise drowning everyone out completely.

Oh, this is a lost show? Man, I have an old VHS of this from when I was little. I wonder if it could be of any use to the preservation effort?

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Ariza posted:

Still weird. They're kids, there's really no reason to push sexuality onto a kid's show. Being queer isn't any more unique than being an outcast that's into silly things, like the main character of the show.

"Push sexuality" implies that being gay is an inherently sexual thing, and unsuitable for kids, in a way that being straight isn't. Can you believe Minnie and Mickey Mouse, pushing their sexuality on kids! Disgusting!

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



I remember having this same argument nearly a decade ago, also in a TVIV thread, about Princess Bubblegum and Marceline in Adventure Time. I mention this just to point out that we've come a long way - because most posters seemed to share Ariza's opinion re: "gay stuff is inappropriate for kids" then, and it was an uphill struggle making anyone hear otherwise. It's heartening to see that the mood on this has changed for the better.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Korra's low point is just the fact that S2 completely sucks, like it's really bad. S1's good, S3's great, S4 is a mixed bag but not bad on balance. The real persistent issues are just:

- The comic relief falls way short of the ATLA stuff, it's usually just simple physical gags, and Bolin (who was a more grounded character in S1) gets horribly Flanderised in S2 and never really recovers.
- Bumi is the same deal and is like, 90% insufferable.
- Korra's character arc post-S1 is sort of a mess and is entirely about her dealing with self-doubt and self-hatred, and is usually about how she's incompetent and stupid, and it just feels like a weirdly disrespectful treatment of the show's protagonist. She very rarely gets to be the hero of her own story. Instead, all the heroism gets displaced onto Mako, who is consistently written as sensible, level-headed, and wise vs. Korra being crazy, irrational and stupid. It feels like the show has a real sexism problem for much of its run - like they couldn't imagine telling a story with a female lead that didn't have a sensible man guiding her from the sidelines.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



There definitely were people who loved Ren & Stimpy ardently, but between the awful reboot and John K being outed as a sexual predator, plus time, I have to imagine it's a small group now.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



It also has, "No, you miscalculated! You should have feared me more!"

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



I think Lance and Keith was really just a shipping thing, right? They're just two cute guys who spend a lot of time disliking each other. Shiro, sure, I always got that vibe from him. But I definitely don't think they were queerbaiting Lance and Keith. I honestly think the writers were so straight they had no idea "two teen boys are rivals" was shipping fuel.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



The intensity of the Voltron shipping wars is, indeed, really strange. Somehow this relatively bland kids' show about giant robots in space has more vehement shippers than, like, Supernatural or Sherlock did at their peak.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Even in TLA, the airbenders have been gone for one hundred years and it's implied that this is the result of genocide and the fact that the bending peoples were all ethno-states, so there weren't (for instance) Earth Kingdom natives who were born as airbenders, ever. It's an unfortunate implication that most probably arose by accident, in the way that these things do when you start telling stories about nations of people born with different magic powers.

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Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Larryb posted:

Speaking of which, is it ever stated exactly where Republic City is geographically?

West coast of the Earth Kingdom, I think? Could be the southern coast. Its founding is detailed in one of the comics.

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