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UncleMonkey posted:She almost does. But West shows up in time to stop it and throws Ladisla off of a cliff in one of my all time favorite moments in all of the books so far. It's how he earns his name.. There is another part of The Heroes I'm thinking of. It's not on screen, but Two girls get kidnapped, Finree is released, they imply the other girl is to spend the rest of her life as a sex slave of the mountain man. It was pretty horrifying, even if it was only alluded to.
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Jul 12, 2012 20:46
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DarkCrawler posted:I really don't understand people who ask if they should read things in order. Yes, presumably a series builds on to the previous novel in terms of history, characters, motivations and so on. Some series especially ones with many books in them have a few books you can safely skip. In the Dresden Files thread occasionally people will recommend avoiding the first two as they pale greatly compared to the rest. Fool Moon in particular is one that is most often recommend to others to skip. Red Mundus fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 22:31
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UncleMonkey posted:And yeah, poor Terez. I felt so awful for her. I googled this to see what it's about and found a post from Joe himself about this. Spoilers for that scene obviously. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60165-violence-rape-agency-the-rapiness-that-comes-before/page__p__2864601#entry2864601 I have to say I greatly respect him for owning up to his flaws like that. He doesn't make excuses just states that he messed up a characterization and hopes to improve and avoid doing the same mistakes in the future. I can't comment on that scene obviously as I haven't read it but just reading his post he comes off as a very talented, level-headed person. One author I'll definitely keep an eye on. *edit* Oops, sorry for the double post!
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Jul 12, 2012 22:42
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Jeffrey posted:There is another part of The Heroes I'm thinking of. It's not on screen, but Two girls get kidnapped, Finree is released, they imply the other girl is to spend the rest of her life as a sex slave of the mountain man. It was pretty horrifying, even if it was only alluded to. e: Red Mundus posted:I googled this to see what it's about and found a post from Joe himself about this. UncleMonkey fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 23:54
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UncleMonkey posted:Huh, that's interesting. I didn't realize there was so much controversy about that plot point. I mean, I know that Abercrombie has acknowledged his weakness in writing certain female characters and sexualization, but that stuff with Terez's plotline made perfect sense to me. At first I hated her and was thinking, "Wow, what an incredible bitch." And then the revelation comes and you get that scene between her and Glokta and I found it absolutely sickening and heart-wrenching. The ensuing scene between Terez and Jezel never seemed in any way titillating to me because a) we had a deeper context for what was going on and b) we're seeing it from Jezel's perspective. Reading that scene was really sad to me. I never found Abercrombie's intent was in any way unclear. I don't really get what the fuss is about. What happens with Terez is really lovely. That's the point. It's supposed to be lovely. Pretty lovely for Jezel as well, although it's not even in the same league of terribleness as being blackmailed into sex. He got to marry the most beautiful woman in the kingdom, but she segued straight from hating him into being melancholy, and not only is there absolutely nothing he can do to fix things, he's never even going to know why.
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Jul 13, 2012 00:16
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Red Mundus posted:Some series especially ones with many books in them have a few books you can safely skip. While I agree that Storm Front and Fool Moon are very weak compared to the rest of the series, I wouldn't tell someone who hadn't read them before to skip them, because they do lay down some groundwork for who the core recurring cast is and why they act the way they do. I just see telling someone to skip early, potentially weaker entries in a series as something that's going to hurt their experience with it. Plus, reading the author when they're not at their strongest helps you appreciate the point when they hit their stride all the more. Though really anything that gets you to Dead Beat faster can't be all bad. I love that book.  UncleMonkey posted:Aliz. That's actually who I was thinking about when I said Terez. I got momentarily mixed up. I did feel bad for Terez, but what happened with Aliz was really awful. I liked that Finree keeps coming back to it, that it isn't just forgotten. I had somehow completely blocked that entire scene from my mind, which is weird because I just read The Heroes again recently. What a terrible situation that was in a novel full of terrible situations.
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Jul 13, 2012 01:56
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Bussamove posted:While I agree that Storm Front and Fool Moon are very weak compared to the rest of the series, I wouldn't tell someone who hadn't read them before to skip them, because they do lay down some groundwork for who the core recurring cast is and why they act the way they do. I just see telling someone to skip early, potentially weaker entries in a series as something that's going to hurt their experience with it. Plus, reading the author when they're not at their strongest helps you appreciate the point when they hit their stride all the more. I wholeheartedly agree however in my case the first Dresden book I read was Fool Moon and it took a lot of convincing they were worth reading after the Were-wolf fellatio and mounting scene.  And yep, Dead Beat is what made me a fan too.
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Jul 13, 2012 02:06
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UncleMonkey posted:Aliz. That's actually who I was thinking about when I said Terez. I got momentarily mixed up. I did feel bad for Terez, but what happened with Aliz was really awful. I liked that Finree keeps coming back to it, that it isn't just forgotten. Personally, I agree with the author on this one. He made Glotka's victory over Terez, a one-note ice queen bitch character, too cathartic, too much of "Glotka the mastermind puts that lesbian in her place." I empathize with her like you did, but overall she's written so poorly and unsympathetically that sequence made me extremely uncomfortable not because of how lovely it was for her, but because of how I felt that it was written to make me cheer for her finally getting thrown off her high horse to finally accept the dick.
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Jul 14, 2012 08:02
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Yeah I had almost no sympathy at all for her, mostly because of how she was portrayed through the series so far (which I'm sure colored my opinion of her heavily).
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Jul 14, 2012 23:48
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I'm starting on Best Served Cold two years after reading the First Law trilogy and having trouble remembering who characters like Shivers, Vitari and Cosca were in the earlier books, as well as references to various places and events. Is there any sort of quick recap anywhere available that will jog my memory a little bit? I liked the original trilogy a lot but can't see myself going back and re-reading them all to catch up. I wish I hadn't waited so long to start on Best Served Cold and The Heroes.
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Jul 15, 2012 01:32
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Parker Lewis posted:I'm starting on Best Served Cold two years after reading the First Law trilogy and having trouble remembering who characters like Shivers, Vitari and Cosca were in the earlier books, as well as references to various places and events. That's a shame because Best Served Cold is like a "greatest hits" of the original trilogy in terms of the side characters coming back. Anyways, spoilers of trilogy for BSC that i can remember: Shivers: Logen killed his father (and brother?) when Logen was fighting for Bethod. We were kept wondering if Shivers would try to kill Logen when Logen was back in the north at the end of the trilogy and at that ending ambush by Black Dow and Bethod's sons Calder and Scale, Shivers was there behind Logen with his chance for revenge and said "gently caress it im leaving" (or something to that effect.) Vitari: She was the spiky red haired Practical that was with Glokta at Dagoska. She was vicious and had that chain with a blade on the end of it. Cosca: Was the alcoholic mercenary captain Glokta hired at Dagoska. Had a bit of flair and loved getting paid. Enjoyed quality clothes and boots. It's been awhile since I've read the books and that's about all I can muster, hopefully that can jog your memory. I tried to look up Caul Shivers in a wiki, and all I found for character summary is "Straight up badass. Kills fools and fucks bitches."
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Jul 15, 2012 16:05
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Shivers tells Black Dow to do his own work because he's a better man than Dow, which plays into his traits at the start of BSC.
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Jul 15, 2012 16:46
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Vitari is also notable for having red haired children that Glotka uses implied threats against to get her to cooperate. She was also originally employed by Sult to keep an eye on Glotka.
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Jul 15, 2012 17:48
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Joe posted the nice UK cover on his blog: You can never have too many knives....
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Jul 24, 2012 05:47
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Mr.48 posted:Joe posted the nice UK cover on his blog: Look at that suave motherfucker in the top left corner. You know you want this book.
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Jul 24, 2012 10:41
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I don't suppose anybody would know how a man could get a hold of "The Heroes" with the UK cover in the United States, short of amazon.co.uk and international shipping fees? Because the American covers are unspeakably godawful ugly, and yet, at the same time, I am an incredibly cheap dirtbag and don't want to cough up a red cent more than I have to.
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Jul 25, 2012 03:20
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Axeface posted:I don't suppose anybody would know how a man could get a hold of "The Heroes" with the UK cover in the United States, short of amazon.co.uk and international shipping fees? Because the American covers are unspeakably godawful ugly, and yet, at the same time, I am an incredibly cheap dirtbag and don't want to cough up a red cent more than I have to. bookdepository.com has all the UK covers and has free international shipping.
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Jul 25, 2012 05:00
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I like the American versions of Best Served cold and The Heroes. They're cheesy as hell but totally awesome at the same time. Kind of like how the original covers of old sci-fi novels from the 60's look awful. Or how the Evil Dead films are so loving over the top that they're awesome.
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Jul 25, 2012 07:33
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Cosca and his feckless lawyer. BOTY.
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Jul 26, 2012 03:59
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Recently finished a re-read of Best Served Cold and I'm thinking that, as opposed to my initial reaction, it might actually be the best thing Joe's written. Seriously blown away by how many risks he took.
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Jul 28, 2012 12:27
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Just finished Best Served Cold. All in all it was a good read. I don't think the characters were as interesting or varied as in the First Law trilogy, and I really feel characters in Abercrombies strongest point. However, the prose was better I thought, and there was quite a bit of experimentation throughout the book. Especially the second half, he seemed to try some new things, like ending a paragraph with someone saying something, and then immediately starting the next paragraph with another person saying the same thing in a different setting. Also, there was a scene that was very well done, where Abercrombie tricks the reader as to which characters are interacting, which reminded me of when the police knocks on the door to the serial killer in The Silence of the Lambs. Small question about one of the characters: Was Shenkt in The First Law? A few years since I read the books, can't remember if he was there. If so, who was it, and what is he now? Ending spoiler: And for once it was nice that an Abercrombie book with a semi "happy" ending! Styria turned out to be a pretty interesting setting, hopefully he write more about it later
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Aug 2, 2012 21:16
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Sjonkel posted:Just finished Best Served Cold. All in all it was a good read. I don't think the characters were as interesting or varied as in the First Law trilogy, and I really feel characters in Abercrombies strongest point. However, the prose was better I thought, and there was quite a bit of experimentation throughout the book. Especially the second half, he seemed to try some new things, like ending a paragraph with someone saying something, and then immediately starting the next paragraph with another person saying the same thing in a different setting. Also, there was a scene that was very well done, where Abercrombie tricks the reader as to which characters are interacting, which reminded me of when the police knocks on the door to the serial killer in The Silence of the Lambs.
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Aug 2, 2012 22:23
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This guy is great. I picked up Book 1 on Audible because of the badass cover art in the OP (yes, I judge fiction by it's cover- sorry  ), and it was instantly more accessible than GRRM, which just bored the Hell out of me.The fact that it uses adult language is a refreshing change from, "The *protagonist* cursed". The alternating storylines between the Inquisitor, the Rogue, and the Soldier makes me wonder with anticipation, whether they'll meet up, or if Abercrombie will keep them seperate, while each group's actions contribute to whatever outcome he's writing toward. Awesome stuff.
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Aug 17, 2012 23:00
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Mister Macys posted:This guy is great. Abercrombie is awesome. You're going to have a lot of fun. Just be careful when visiting this thread. We generally try to use spoiler tags all the time to avoid spoiling new readers but it's always smart to be careful. Like Martin, Abercrombie likes to employ a lot of twists and turns. I look forward to hearing how you respond as the series progresses.
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Aug 18, 2012 00:00
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Yeah, I just reached the part where the First of the Magi, his apprentice, and the rogue have come to the city that the soldier and the inquisitor work in. Sorry, I don't recall all the names off-hand, and audiobooks lack any way to view how they're spelled, in any case. Not sure what's going on with the wizard and the woman in the far south yet, though. I listen while I'm at work, and I kind of tuned out during their encounter. All I know is they made it to the southern border of the Union. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 04:32
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You're in for a treat. The stuff you're reading is some of his weakest work - the first book of the trilogy has a lot of table-setting, the pacing is wonky, and Abercrombie is still finding his feet as a writer. Books two and three are where things really take off. Strap in.
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Aug 18, 2012 09:07
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Mister Macys posted:Yeah, I just reached the part where the First of the Magi quote:his apprentice quote:and the rogue quote:have come to the city quote:that the soldier quote:and the inquisitor work in. quote:Not sure what's going on with the wizard quote:and the woman quote:in the far south yet, though. Hopefully that helps! You really are in for a good time with the rest of it.
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Aug 19, 2012 16:59
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.I wonder if Monza will turn out be demonblooded like Ferro. It seems like every chapter someone was says she has a demon or a devil in her.
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Aug 19, 2012 21:51
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Your Gay Uncle posted:.I wonder if Monza will turn out be demonblooded like Ferro. It seems like every chapter someone was says she has a demon or a devil in her. No, she feels pain. The 'demon inside' is more of a metaphor for her willingness to do horrible things. Because of the hunger for vengeance inside of her.
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Aug 20, 2012 06:09
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Your Gay Uncle posted:.I wonder if Monza will turn out be demonblooded like Ferro. It seems like every chapter someone was says she has a demon or a devil in her. I think it was just a figure of speech referring to her ruthlessness. She hasnt exhibited any superhuman-level abilities like people with demon-blood are supposed to.
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Aug 20, 2012 06:23
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Contra Calculus posted:I don't know poo poo about swordplay but I always thought you only used one hand for cutlasses or sabers. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 17:31
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John Charity Spring posted:Bayaz :iamafag: Thanks, that makes things easier. I finished the first book, and holy poo poo, those last ~5 chapters are just nuts. Especially the chase sequence with Ferro and Logen, and the finale, when Bayaz goes all Scanners on one of Goyle's (sp.?) practicals, after coming out of the bath. I'm already about to start chapter 13 of Book 2, and it's really neat to see how Logen is bringing his party together, trying to cut through the default hostility and distrust. And Glokta's situation is just as compelling, being put into a higher position of authority than he had in the war with Gurkhul, and watching him get the city back in fighting shape. And Steven Pacey is one of the best narrators I've ever heard. He puts such emotion and effort into the reading, and each character's dialogue, you almost think he wrote Abercrombie's books himself. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 19:47
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Red Mundus posted:Some series especially ones with many books in them have a few books you can safely skip. That's probably good advice, seeing as I read those two books and have not picked up a Jim Butcher book since. They were horrible in every way. It's one of those things that as you are reading them you are becoming more and more embarrassed for the writer. And yes, Fool Moon was particularly bad.
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Aug 23, 2012 21:45
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I picked up Best Served Cold for $8 at Chapters during a sale, pretty much entirely on a whim as I hadn't heard of Abercrombie before. I can't say it wasn't entertaining and I did finish it but I don't think I'll read anything else by him if the rest of his books are this over the top. I like the universe and he has some... interesting characters, but there's only so much dark evil darkness you can take before it gets tiresome. Cosca, Shivers and the alchemist fellow were entertaining... but Shenkt was just a ridiculous and unnecessary deus ex machina. I mean really? The magical lady whose name I forget didn't interfere excessively with the story despite her god-like powers; Shenkt just demolished armies without breaking a sweat. Yeah sure it's mildly amusing to realize all of the other character's efforts were virtually pissing in the wind because they were being followed by a god man who could crush them all like ants in the blink of an eye but it doesn't make for a good story.
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Aug 27, 2012 04:44
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Am I the only one who gets Derek Jacobi in Cadfael vibes from Glokta? Discounting the ruthlessness, and physical disabilities, of course.  And I can't read book titles.
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 04:51
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I also did not like Shenkt for the reasons you mentioned. His abilities seem way beyond what we see the other Big Players demonstrate in the novels. e. And his character is really lovely and undeveloped and bland unless you like Dragonball Z characters. Above Our Own fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 05:05
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Above Our Own posted:I also did not like Shenkt for the reasons you mentioned. His abilities seem way beyond what we see the other Big Players demonstrate in the novels. Anyway, that's always how I read him. He's clearly playing his own game. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.
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Aug 27, 2012 06:12
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eXXon posted:I picked up Best Served Cold for $8 at Chapters during a sale, pretty much entirely on a whim as I hadn't heard of Abercrombie before. I can't say it wasn't entertaining and I did finish it but I don't think I'll read anything else by him if the rest of his books are this over the top. I like the universe and he has some... interesting characters, but there's only so much dark evil darkness you can take before it gets tiresome. Cosca, Shivers and the alchemist fellow were entertaining... but Shenkt was just a ridiculous and unnecessary deus ex machina. I mean really? The magical lady whose name I forget didn't interfere excessively with the story despite her god-like powers; Shenkt just demolished armies without breaking a sweat. Yeah sure it's mildly amusing to realize all of the other character's efforts were virtually pissing in the wind because they were being followed by a god man who could crush them all like ants in the blink of an eye but it doesn't make for a good story. Yes Shenkt is a murder machine but if you had read the previous books you would have a much better perspective on what that means in Abercombie's world. I mean sure, he's ridiculously powerful compared to a normal person, but then again so are some of the other eaters you see in the trilogy. Also, he was apprenticed to loving Bayaz himself, so its not as if he's just some random guy who can take apart armies with a touch of his finger. To give you a bit of perspective on who Bayaz is here are some spoilers for the original trilogy: Bayaz is the first and most powerful of the magi, a near-immortal sorcerer who is thousands of years old. He rules almost half the civilized world with an iron fist. He was also apprenticed to not one but two gods and managed to murder at least one and possibly both of them. Shenkt may be super-powerful but he then he learned from the best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) and his probable showdown with his former master Bayaz at some point in the future promises to be truly epic...
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Aug 27, 2012 06:57
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^^ Shenkt's abilities go far beyond what Bayaz has demonstrated in the series, which makes little sense. UncleMonkey posted:In a world with insanely powerful magi battling each other, a character like Shenkt could still be hugely important (assuming Abercrombie actually has an overall plan). It feels like he lifted Shenkt straight from his storyboarding process and dropped him in the final novel without actually taking time to flesh out the character.
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Aug 27, 2012 18:04
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Above Our Own posted:I don't really care nearly as much about plot as I do about characterization, which Shenkt has almost no development in. It makes him a lovely character, because plot should flow naturally from character motivations. In good writing, the plot is just the backdrop for interaction between characters which is actually something I think Abercrombie is very good. I even wrote a post about how good he is with that kind of thing here.
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Aug 27, 2012 19:00
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