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I freaking love these books. Bayaz is my favorite character. His transformation on the course of the series was in my opinion the most masterfully executed character change that I have ever read. From the primary force of good -> kind of annoying but still clearly a good guy -> okay, he's pretty ruthless, but it's not like he hurts innocents or anything like that -> hey, that isn't very nice...but maybe it's just necessary for the greater good -> wait what? -> WAIT, WHAT?! ->>>>>> holy poo poo, he is the most evil character in the series!  It was beautiful. I don't actually mind the "Bayaz was behind it all! AGAIN!" ending of Heroes. He's thousands of years old. The most powerful being in the world most likely, the first of the Magi who engineered the deaths of both Kanedias and Juvens. He doesn't just scheme within the Union, he literally BUILT it and has been responsible of it's every important twist and turn. I think of him more as a force of nature then just an individual at the end of the books. A god, even. Of course he was behind it all. My second favorite must be Yori Sulfur. I don't know, in this world of scheming and backstabbing it's interesting to see one guy who is absolutely 100% loyal and will stop at nothing to serve their master. Also, his transformation from funny and harmless weirdo to a complete loving monster was fascinating as well. And the third best one is Logen Ninefingers, I probably don't need to expand on that point...I agree with whoever said that he shouldn't come back, his character arc was beautiful. I wouldn't mind reading about him and his dozen more, but it might just be too bitter(sweet?) after all that happened to them.  Oh, and I think his dozen were left alive because they were the only ones able to hold off against the Bloody-Nine long enough that he turned back into Ninefingers. Edit: also, I think there is still potential opposition for Bayaz...we were told only about seven of the eleven Magis, and we only met five in the books. 1: Bayaz - First of the Magi 2. Khalul - Second, the Prophet 3. Yulwei - Presumed dead, if not, locked in the House of the Maker with Tolomei 4. Cawneil Useless, bitter 5. Zacharus Fifth of the Magi, kind of nuts, trying to make an Emperor out of some young general 6. Anselmi Died fighting Kanedias 7. Brokentooth Died fighting Kanedias So that leaves Four Magis, presumably alive. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 30, 2011 |
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Aug 30, 2011 16:26
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Or working with Tolomei to escape and add loving DEMONS to the already-horrible world these poor bastards inhabit. He seemed too good for that...maybe Tolomei tells him what an evil bastard Bayaz actually is though.
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Aug 31, 2011 20:45
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tofes posted:Well, finished Last Argument of Kings Well, at least from those who are left alive at the end.
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Sep 5, 2011 15:05
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Bummey posted:
Yeah, their power levels vary a lot. Glokta and his guys took down one with relative simplicity, most of the hundred who attacked were cannon fodder for Bayaz to deal with. Shenkt, Mamun, Ishri and probably Yori Sulfur are the only ones we have seen that seem to be truly powerful.
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Oct 9, 2011 21:50
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Bayaz doesn't seem to hold them under any sort of thrall either, so I think Shenkt didn't as much break free from him as opposed to just getting into a huge disagreement with him. Yoru is Bayaz's man through and through - but I think again that it is loyalty and reverence as opposed to some sort of a magical control. Anyone think Bayaz might have more apprentices hiding somewhere? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Oct 10, 2011 |
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Oct 10, 2011 15:04
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Wait, didn't Cosca Totally murder those three captains out of revenge?
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Oct 12, 2011 14:44
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Ugh...how did I NOT get this on my first readthrough: “Be careful, Ferro. And listen to Bayaz. He is the first of my order, and few indeed are wise as he.”
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Jan 7, 2012 22:27
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Those are pretty much the exact words that Gandalf used to describe Saruman the Wise...maybe I am reading too much to it but it seemed to me to be a subtle nod that Bayaz was not the gruffy but overall nice Gandalf-like figure that he had seemed to be so far.
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Jan 9, 2012 11:06
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In a Clash of Kings, not in the Game of Thrones.  ataridc posted:(I guess I'm going to go ahead and spoiler tag most of this just to be on the safe side.) Eh, just because she's gay doesn't mean she can't be a complete bitch too...but for the most part, I agree on female characters in the books not really being that greatly written. For being the main character Monza was the lamest part of the fourth book and Finree in some points just felt like a smarter Ardee West. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 18, 2012 |
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Jan 18, 2012 18:25
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nutnmunch posted:Really? I agree on everything else, but I liked Monza. I thought she was an interesting character, even if she didn't grow that much chapter to chapter. It's been a bit since I've read it though, so maybe I'm forgetting something. Well, I didn't hate her, but compared to Shivers, Shenkt and Cosca she just wasn't much. Better then Morveer (?) though, I hated all his chapters.
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Jan 18, 2012 23:08
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This is a series about The entire world and all the people in it being the playthings and/or creations of two immortal mages who are both so amoral that after five books I'm still not sure who's truly more evil. Good things are only allowed to exist if they somehow serve the ends of the pair of ageless beings. And even if something should happen that is not related to their ommiscient plan and eternal war it's brought into them or stamped out ruthlessly. If you are looking for positive growth and changes...you've got the wrong book. Also, in my re-read I picked up two more Magis to add to the list I posted earlier. DarkCrawler posted:1: Bayaz - First of the Magi That's (three) more of the order of the Magi we haven't heard of or I have missed. Or better said, of the twelve apprentices of Juvens since Yoru Sulfur is apparently a full-fledged Magi in his own right? Khalul's primary apprentices probably too? And I hope we get to see more of Bayaz's apprentices then the three that we already have. Khalul had a hundred, so Bayaz must have more as well...Yoru only seems to be the first or the best or both. There is at least three more books coming, any about where they are set in? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jan 24, 2012 |
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Jan 21, 2012 22:30
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How did that happen? I even gave the copies new numbers! 
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Jan 24, 2012 08:59
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Above Our Own posted:How can Bayaz feel secure just locking her in the House of the Maker? It's clear from the text that Tolomei knows way more about the house and its secrets than Bayaz, and Bayaz is aware of this. So he locks her in a place containing artifacts of incredible power that he does not understand and he has no confidence that she doesn't know another way out? You dumb, wiz. He was Kanedias's apprentice for years and much more older and knowledgeable then Tolomei when he was hanging around the House so it's not like he doesn't know the place's secrets either. And the whole "unbreakable door" thing was pretty well established in my opinion. Above Our Own posted:Secondly, what's her endgame? Find the seed and open the gates to hell-world or whatever? I really hate the "corrupted and wants to unleash ultimate evil" character motivation, it's lazy writing and about as cliche as you can get, and Abercrombie makes long winded blog posts about how much he hates fantasy cliches. It doesn't fit in with the morally ambiguous ethos he's got going in in the series. Revenge, and pact that she made with the Other Side to have her resurrected? I think that's a pretty good motivation...growing up in the House of the Maker probably did not instill her with a very good opinion about humanity either, especially when "humanity" in Midderland back then meant bunch of sheepfuckers that Bayaz would create the Union out of hundreds of years afterwards. Above Our Own posted:And then there's the 'fact' that Bayaz is nearing a thousand years old and has spent the majority of it coercing and manipulating the fate of nations and yet he isn't deft enough to notice the character changes in his own apprentice who he's been around constantly? You'd think someone with such a long history of high level politics and betrayal would have learned to keep a watchful eye on his close associates. Umm, he says that he had noticed it for like weeks, since he got turned. He was just monitoring him and figuring out what's his game. He thought he was an eater though, not Tolomei.
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Jan 24, 2012 17:50
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Also, we don't really know what he's been doing all this time, so...maybe he has devised a better solution for her.
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Jan 24, 2012 21:08
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The Gunslinger posted:Yeah I can agree with that. TFL spoilers She gets reincarnated by making a deal with blah blah on the other side just so she can get revenge. Yet she has several opportunities to gently caress him over and she just lets him live for no apparent reason. Her character motivation is supposedly revenge but she doesn't bother despite it being simple for her to renege on her end of the deal. She wanted the Seed too, remember...
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Jan 25, 2012 22:01
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It's not Logen. We will know this as soon as they DON'T mention his lack of fingers.
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Feb 5, 2012 10:40
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It could be one of the Magi, maybe? No bloodier past then the stuff with Glustrod and Kanedias. I don't know, I just hope we see more of the Magi because I think they are by far the most interesting stuff in this book. Maybe after the North.
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Feb 12, 2012 19:42
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Aggro posted:
I started reading these books and dropped them after 50 pages because literally every third sentence had some convulted fantasy word or concept that I didn't have any idea what it was and wasn't explained either. I think I am going to give them another try, but it really pulled me off the story itself. One more thing I like about Abercrombie too, he eases out on the fantasy wording. His mages are called goddamn mages. And he doesn't leave a thousand mysteries in the air that are explained hundreds of pages later. And his fantasy nations are pretty simple, which is a plus. Can't really relate to some place called Ûiönårü or whatever. I have really hard time reading regular fantasy after GRRM and Joe. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Feb 25, 2012 |
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Feb 25, 2012 11:00
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el_brio posted:Fair enough, but Duck's point (I think) wasn't that there were a couple of bad-asses sprinkled here and there but the whole trilogy is filled with uber-fighters-of-ultimate-deadliness. It got a little tired when Abercrombie introduced the 10th ultimate bad-rear end in the series. It kind of reminds me of Rothfuss. Also, just because you throw in a character who shits himself and is in always in pain (& constantly complaining about it) doesn't balance out all the other faults of the books. I am sick of people saying that Abercrombie is somehow doing something new and exciting in the genre. These books are as filled with the same tired swords and sorcery BS that most of the genre is. I like the books, but I am not going to fool myself into thinking that these are anything but standard fantasy fare. I like standard fantasy fair (to some extent) and I don't need to fool myself into thinking that I am reading some great genre-shattering work of art. Uh, it's a world in which pretty much every place is experiencing massive warfare. And you are surprised that we meet a shitload of soldiers who, as a result of having known nothing but constant war for a decade happen to be good at fighting? Also lot of the "violent badasses" meet a terrible end or experience horrible things due to their violent ways. I haven't really read a book that portrays war as bad and useless as these books. I have no idea where some people get that the books glorify it.
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Mar 1, 2012 00:34
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Slanderer posted:It's been a while, but I was vaguely convinced back when I read it that his death going against what his magic sword told him was evidence of direct intervention in the battle by Bayaz by means of his apprentice (whose name is eluding me right now), since he shows up multiple times with evidence that he was secretly participating in the battle. I think Yoru Sulfur was doing some other stuff, in the swamp or spying on Ishri or something like that.
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Mar 5, 2012 20:05
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Normal Adult Human posted:Whirrun reminded me of burnt face dog man from the GRRM books. He had this entire characterization of gaining revenge upon his elder brother but just died of fever in the middle of nowhere without any real goal or closure. Just go to the GRRM thread dude with the same post and be enlightened 
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Mar 6, 2012 00:20
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Fly Molo posted:To each his own, but the Northmen are easily one of the best parts in opinion. Case in point: "That is one loving beautiful ceiling." The Northmen come right after the Magi for me as the best part of the book...they repeat some of the poo poo but their culture and concept of honor and so on are great.
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May 11, 2012 17:18
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Beastie posted:I just started rereading the First Law Trilogy. I have all 5 books on my Kindle but snagged the trilogy in analog form and gave them to my brother to read for the summer. It's funny because early on you do understand that he's kind of a oval office but by the end you realize that he is such a total oval office that you need a new word to describe him. It goes from "Gandalf!" to "...Satan?" 
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May 13, 2012 10:12
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Rurik posted:That's what bothered me - the unrealistic amount of poo poo thrown at Shivers. Getting tortured and losing an eye in that scenario isn't that far off, but what are the chances that that one fat Northman happened to hold a grudge against Shivers and tried to kill him in that brothel? ...He didn't, he held a grudge against Ninefingers and because he was pretty much a functional retard, Shivers, playing Logen, was the next best thing. Plucky Brit posted:Your point about Bayaz is undercut slightly by the fact that he set off a magical equivalent of a nuclear bomb in a crowded city, killing thousands. It wasn't just "making his stomach hurt", it was unimaginable pain given without any effort at all from a guy who Jezal had seen explode people with a thought a dozen times beforehand, right after he said he was just the spawn of a random prostitute, all the previous kings were just useless idiots and he can pick any chucklefuck in the street and make him the king and has done so several times in the past. What would you do? It's like if Henry Kissinger was immortal, except he has been that since the 1700's when he bought George Washington from a whorehouse in Virginia and made him the president. You don't say "no" to a guy like that. Rurik posted:Glokta? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 21:23
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Yeah, it's Bayaz.
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May 16, 2012 08:14
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I had the same thoughts about Morveer. Fun to read about, fun to punch if he was in front of me in real life. And definitely Khalul, I want to see his side of the story. And the other Magus too.
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May 16, 2012 14:25
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Hollis posted:The other magus seem to just fall in line with Bayaz, are there any that support Khalul? Only Yulwei is his true ally, everyone else are doing their own thing or don't give a gently caress about it all, really. But no other one is allied with Khalul, at least to our knowledge. Mamun had apparently reached a level enough to challenge Bayaz or Yulwei in combat and he was probably the first apprentice of any of the Magus... roffles posted:Just finished Best Served Cold, are there any clues as to who Shenkt is supposed to be? I want to say that it's Yulwei; he broke out of the tower and now he's pissed. If he would have been Yulwei, Sulfur would have shat his pants. Rurik posted:I don't know. He wanted to end the kingdom's dependence on Bayaz and become king himself. Would he have been a nice monarch? He sent Glokta to his death (Dagoska) and was very surprised when he came back, meaning he expected him to die. He also tortures innocent people willingly to get political confessions and doesn't care about the truth at all - not a good man to lead the House of Questions or be a boss of much anything. True, I suppose. He might have been worse or not better, anyway. Most of the time Bayaz is not that bad of an overlord, but when things go bad be ready to be sacrificed like a pig for the greater "good", in mass numbers. I think Dogman is a good guy, overall, or at least in the grey zone. Jezal is good through his experiences, and tries to do his best even when constrained by Bayaz. The Grand Marshal whose name escapes me becomes a decent man as showcased in Heroes, also due to his experiences in war. That's all I can think of, really.
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May 17, 2012 11:10
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Rurik posted:Yesterday I finished the Heroes. I liked how Calder spared his brother's life and even voluntarily gave his kingship to him. Wonder what Bayaz will think about it however, since he wanted Calder as king and not Scale. But anyway, really great way to redeem yourself Calder, especially since it would've been so easy to just nod to Shivers and finish the big bro off without anyone knowing. It seems like Calder might want to become a straight edge, but like Cosca said in BSC, people rarely change. I just figured that Calder will just rule everything behind the scenes, since Scale really seemed to appreciate his opinion on things and admitted that he's much smarter of the two. I'm sure Bayaz would approve. Rurik posted:Bayaz believes in banking, not military innovations.
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May 22, 2012 13:58
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Beastie posted:Is there ever given an explanation as to why the magic is leaking out of the world? Is it just a results of the gates to the other side being closed all those years ago? I know the spirits and Bayaz both say that magic is leaving this world but there never seems to be an explanation. I always presumed it was because all the big magic people are dead. Euz and all his sons seemed to be if not the source of magic, then the only ones who could uphold and keep it going.
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May 22, 2012 22:33
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Above Our Own posted:I know I have the minority viewpoint here, but I really don't see Bayaz as an evil character. I see him as ruthless and amoral, which comes as a reasonable consequence of his personal power and longevity. I don't think he actually wants destruction or suffering for anyone if he can accomplish his goals without it, and several times he goes out of his way to be polite and agreeable. He has lost the ability to care for normal men because their short lives are inconsequential in his view. I think that being willing to cause suffering and destruction to accomplish your goals categorizes you as evil, even if you don't actively seek that. I think using intimidation, torture and murder as some of your primary tools of doing things makes you evil. I think being a double faced bastard who accuses your enemies of being terrible because they are cannibals, yet employing them yourself makes you evil. We have seen him be petty, frustrated and offended by some of the things done to him and seek revenge for them. You can be polite, you can be agreeable but you can still be evil. And the thing here is that Bayaz doesn't do these things to seek some greater good. He does it to prove that he's the best, he seeks as well as divert attention from all the lovely and shady things he did. Did he kill Juvens? After the end of the three books the answer is at best "Maybe", at worst "Yeaahh, looks like it." Did he trick Tolomei like a heartless rear end in a top hat and toss her off the Tower? Yeah, that was confirmed. Did he sacrifice Yulwei to accomplish his decidedly non-good goals, yes. And this is while he's dealing with fellow immortals. People he's known for hundreds, for thousand years. The immortality argument doesn't work because Yulwei is a far, far, far better person then Bayaz, even when facing same problems and enemies. Zacharias too from what little we saw of him, even if he's nuts. None of his fellow Magi are really his friends in the books anymore, many of them actively loathe him. Yeah, I think that if he could just avoid being confronted for all his crimes by Khalul and become the most powerful person in the world without killing anyone, he would do it. But if that doesn't work he's more then willing to murder thousands, mortal or immortal, and that makes him a very bad person. Khalul actually has the nobler goal, even though his crimes are (arguably) worse. He wants to bring Bayaz to task for all his terrible actions. Like Bayaz he's willing to do anything to achieve this. Of course he might just be an rear end in a top hat too and doesn't give a poo poo about Juvens, and it's just continuation of their millenia long pissing match over who's the best. Rurik posted:How does the mythology of this fantasy world go, by the way? Is Euz the biggest figure we know of? Was he some kind of god-like creator? Who was Glustrod then, a human? Euz was half-demon half-human who rose up against the demons of the Other Side and banished them from the world so humans could grow and thrive. He had four sons, Juvens, Kanedias, Bedesh and Glustrod, who presumably were quarter-demons and thus had great powers and capabilities. He gave Juvens the skill of magic, Kanedias the skill of technology, Bedesh the skill of speaking with spirits but because he had only one skill left which was the skill of speaking with the beings of Other Side and for understandable reasons he didn't want this skill to spread he gave nothing to Glustrod. He created the First Law, which is not to talk with beings of the Other Side. And the Second Law, which is not to eat the flesh of men Juvens settled in the place that would become the Old Empire, raised up the humans there and created the Empire (obviously Roman Empire expy). He had twelve students the Twelve Magi. Kanedias went to Midderland, built the Tower of the Maker there but didn't really give a poo poo about the people around him, and built the Shanka. Bedesh we don't know about but my pet theory is that he went to North and had some children there, hence Logen has the ability to speak to spirits. We don't know what happened to Euz after this. Guess he and his sons might have had more kids, hence the existence of people with demon blood like Ferro or they got it from other demons. But he wasn't around when Glustrod got pissed that he got nothing, contacted all the demons on his own and went against his brothers and the Magi, destroying the Old Empire. Around this time he created lots of powerful beings and warriors, one of these which was Fenris the Feared. He lost, anyway, but his brothers got into fight over what to do with all the powerful things he gathered, primary of these being the Seed. After this Bayaz got into a fight with Juvens, went to become Kanedias's apprentice, Juvens found out about this and confronted Kanedias - presumably Kanedias killed him when they fought Bayaz did it. The So that started the big war in the books. Bayaz would stay in Midderland and create the Union. Khalul would go to the South and either found the Gurkhul Empire, or it might have existed on it's own and he simply exploits it as The Prophet. I think that's it, pretty much. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:16 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 11:20
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Bussamove posted:The only indicator we've had that Khalul has any sort of noble goal is from his own Eaters, and I trust their opinion on the matter as much as I would trust Yoru's. That is, not at all. They're both portrayed as reprehensible people who will do anything to get the better of the other. Don't both Bayaz and Yulwei say at one point that Khalul believes Bayaz killed Juvens due to lies of Mamun? It's still left up to air if that is actually his motivation or just another thing he can use to gloat over Bayaz but he's done some pretty drastic poo poo to be driven only by showboating. Previously they were at the worst really uneasy allies but at the same side nonetheless. The deaths of Kanedias/Juvens started the actual brutal war between the two. I don't think Eaters and such factored in beforehand.
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May 23, 2012 14:11
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Really everything Yulwei does and says in the books paints him as a better person then Bayaz, his talks with Glokta, the way he treats Ferro, the way he makes his way in the world, his philosophy about revenge and so on, his selfless sacrifice against Tolomei...hell, he tried to negotiate with the Eaters who were trying to capture Ferro even though he could (and did) effortlessly kill them with a thought. Zacharias is trying to reforge the Old Empire and stop the ongoing chaos as an advisor to a warlord who from what little we hear from him seems not to be a bad dude - at least compared to all the other warlords. Not exactly a very likely goal to succeed but not a sinister one anyway. And like Yulwei he tries to move Bayaz away from his path of trying to use the Seed. There doesn't seem to be any documentation on deities. The Union is implicitly atheist or agnostic. The Gurkhul Empire believes in God whose Prophet Khalul is, but it's highly likely that he's Khalul's invention. Very little told about Northmen beliefs either aside from "back to the mud" which doesn't really have many religious connections.
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May 23, 2012 14:51
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Melche posted:
Do you mean Marovia who was eaten by Yoru Sulfur or The Tannerwho was Yoru Sulfur? 
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Jun 7, 2012 23:04
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Don't forget General Kroy becoming a decent leader who actually cares about his men and being fired for it. And Bayaz is evil but he isn't evil for evil's sake. If he wins against Khalul and something is left in the aftermath there isn't really a reason why he wouldn't leave them alone. Union is mostly a decent place, even if it is an imperialist monarchy. While if Khalul wins the state he has built will still be a fundamentalist slave state led by a bunch of cannibals.
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Jun 12, 2012 21:23
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Above Our Own posted:I don't see how that would be any happier. It if wasn't Bayaz, it would just be some other person or group calling the shots. At least Bayaz provides stability without the threat of civil war. Yeah but Bayaz is willing to put the entire Union through a meat grinder just to one-up Khalul and to show who was daddy's favorite after all. If he could do that without a single death he would do it but if it requires millions and millions of dead piled upon each other he doesn't bat an eye. And there would not be Union or the Empire without Bayaz and Khalul - they built the states a thousand years ago. Engineered them. Bayaz was a disciple of both Juvens and Kanedias so he built a country with the Tower of the Maker right at the heart of it so he can best use both of his mentor's disciples. Khalul needed an edge so he broke the Second Law and his country has this crime as the source of his power. Magic and technology VS Magic and cannibalism. Atheism & Religion. North & South. The sole reason they are at war, the sole reason that they EXIST is because their demigod figureheads have a massive grudge against each other. They were created to be countries eternally in conflict with one another, their respective philosophies cannot co-exist. It's a petulant chess match on a world scale. And there was a civil war, don't you remember? From Marovia to Sult to the rebelling peasants to Brock allying with the Gurkhul to be a puppet king...sure, Bayaz cleared it all but his presence does not stop civil wars from happening. Plus you know, civil war isn't that much worse thing then all the wars Bayaz engages the Union in. Greed and territory are still better motivations for war then wanting to be the best, even if you accomplish that by being the last one standing.
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Jun 13, 2012 01:09
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Above Our Own posted:Well, we disagree here. Typically powerful leaders add stability, even if living conditions are still harsh. Many ancient cultures preferred tyranny to the chaos and uncertainty of internal strife. Also there is definitely room for change. Bayaz will make sure that the Union gets equipped with any new technological developments that will give his nation an edge in war or wealth. Bayaz doesn't want an UNION victory, he wants an BAYAZ victory. It's like saying that a football player wants the ball to win. He was more then willing to gently caress over the capital and thousands of people to win one fight with Khalul, if he could end the war by wiping out all life in the country he would do it. The Union is just a tool. Bayaz wouldn't have anything to do with it if he didn't need it to win over Khalul. We've seen how annoyed he is of humanity and how he considers Union just to be a poor disgusting shadow of the Old Empire. Above Our Own posted:It's really only from a modern viewpoint that Bayaz looks so awful. Everybody in the books who learns what he really is hates him. Except for Yoru Sulfur I guess but he's in a way even worse then Bayaz.
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Jun 14, 2012 20:48
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I really don't understand people who ask if they should read things in order. Yes, presumably a series builds on to the previous novel in terms of history, characters, motivations and so on. 
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Jul 12, 2012 16:26
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To be fair there are like three characters who you DON'T feel awful for by the end of the books.
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Jul 12, 2012 19:12
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Above Our Own posted:^^ Shenkt's abilities go far beyond what Bayaz has demonstrated in the series, which makes little sense. Ehh, not really. Bayaz can just blink and make your face explode. Shenkt has physical abilities, but so does Yoru Sulfur (pretty much equal ones). Eaters are different from the Magi but not more powerful. After all like a hundred of them followed Khalul, Yoru Sulfur thinks that Bayaz is the hottest poo poo that ever shitted and Shenkt certainly doesn't straight up go and kill Bayaz.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:13
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Heh, now I realize they never tell us where Bayaz is from. He could be a Northman for all we know. Well not that Northmen existed as they are now when he was born.
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Aug 29, 2012 14:04
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