VW/Audi Exorcism Thread

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bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

What, if any, long-term damage might be caused if diesel is allowed to spray around the engine compartment of an A3? I'm thinking mostly in regards to any electronics it might have gotten on, such as the alternator. The car was driven at freeway speeds for at least half an hour in this condition, and then sat overnight.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2014 00:35

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:53

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Brain Issues posted:

It's going to smell for awhile. Other than that, nothing. The alternator will probably be fine. May I ask what happened?

Had my 35K service done Friday at the dealership I bought it from, got it back and drove it a bunch yesterday and today then finally popped the hood to see why I kept smelling fuel. Whole front right corner of the engine bay is soaked as well as everything under and behind it. Air box wasn't screwed back down either, just resting in place. Car went back to the dealer on a flatbed a couple hours ago to be looked at in the morning, should be an interesting phone call.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2014 01:16

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Well the service writer called and said it was a "defective" fuel filter, that it was torn and that was why it was leaking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a torn filter just possibly let fuel leak past it unfiltered rather then allow it to escape the sealed filter housing? A pinched o-ring sounds much more likely to me but now I'm concerned that they're trying to pass this off as a fluke accident rather then taking responsibility for the carelessness of their tech. There's no way the airbox unscrewed itself and hell, you can tell it isn't fastened just by glancing at it (all the screws stick up about an inch) so clearly someone didn't do their job right.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2014 19:48

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Got the call that it was ready to go about 1pm Mon; when I got to the dealership I immediately asked to speak with the service manager, who explained exactly what happened (pinched o-ring) and took full responsibility for it and the other issues. He couldn't explain how it was allowed to leave the shop that way, only that it was highly uncharacteristic of that particular technician and for their shop in general. They re-did the entire 35K service to ensure it was all done properly, detailed the hell out of the engine bay and exterior and also comped my 55K service (Audicare already covers me through 45K). So, all's well that ends well I suppose, could have turned out a lot worse and the dealer did everything in their power to make things right again. I'll probably stick with them until my warranty is up, especially if they keep giving me S4 loaners.

*Edit: Oh new page. Can anyone recommend a TDI tuning shop in or near Seattle?

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 17:22

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

It was not University, though it could have been if those fuckers had ever returned my calls/emails when I was shopping.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 20:10

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Just got back from having the TDI ECM update done on my A3 and can confirm it's improved low-speed shifts immensely. All the jerky engine braking is gone as well as the dead spot around 1800 RPM. Also it didn't reset any of my vag-com tweaks, so I'm a happy camper.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 18:23

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

savesthedayrocks posted:

Was that a factory thing or an aftermarket flash? If factory, is there a published list of affected cars?

Factory campaign for the VAG TDIs, can't find a comprehensive list of effected models but you can search via VIN here: http://web.audiusa.com/recall/

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 21:22

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

2011; the letter said "certain 2010-2014 TDI A3s" so maybe not all of them were effected? They should probably just call their dealership and ask. What was the notice they received?

# ¿ Jun 27, 2015 23:45

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

SiGmA_X posted:

Could you guys look up the recall number or description from your receipt? I realize it may vary by model and engine and etc, but my folks dealer says there is no recall for *any* TDI DSG and the service advisor got pretty upset with my dad for even asking.

Mine's at home but it was a Service Campaign, not a Recall, and it's for the ECU not the DSG. That plus a load of pedantry on the part of the dealer might explain the confusion. Just put the VIN into the vw site.

*Edit: Found my receipt, the line items read "23602599 ECM Software Update" and "43782 Performed 23N4 Emissions Update". There are no identifying numbers on the letter I got from AoA notifying me of the service action.

bizwank fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Aug 15, 2015

# ¿ Aug 14, 2015 21:20

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

PhazonLink posted:

We live in a state where they pump the gas.

"They" being your parents or a gas station attendant? If it's the latter then you should be talking to the gas station's insurance company, not your own.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2015 21:48

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Wow, that's quite the fuckup. In WA state diesel passenger vehicles don't even need to get emissions tested, I thought I was done with all that mess :argh:

What will "full emissions control" being on all the time do to efficiency/performance?

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 20:20

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

I've got an appointment to drive an A3 e-tron next month and this news has upgraded that from "fun way to spend an hour" to "possible replacement for the TDI now that my 15 minute all-city commute is going to get even less efficient". I guess I shouldn't trust the mpg numbers on that model either though...

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 22:57

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Nevergirls posted:

I got a letter from VW "in cooperation with" the EPA for an ECU update in April (and it was not sufficiently scarily worded, because I didn't take it in) so there have to be people on the road with un-defeat-deviced ECUs already. Someone must have noticed their performance or milage take a poo poo afterward.

That first ECU flash was an attempt by VAG to explain away the increased emissions by claiming they were caused by technical issues and/or unanticipated use scenarios. Only after that update failed to bring emissions back down to proper levels and they were threatened with their 2016 models getting black-listed did they come clean about the defeat device. There's no way that first flash took out the defeat device or they would have done it on the EPA's test cars too, and not gotten caught (in this way).

I had that first flash done and actually noticed an increase in responsiveness and smoother shifting, as did many other owners in these and other forums. I also saw reports of decreased MPG after the flash, though I don't really track this myself due to my 10 min commute.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 15:57

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Cyrano4747 posted:

I read that a class actin was filed in CA over this yesterday. I'm really bummed about it. We've got a 2014 TDI jetta that we've loved. I'm not exactly happy with the "don't ever get it updated" angle as driving something that pollutes that bad would grate on me in a bad way.

Here's the firm that filed it if you want to join: http://www.hbsslaw.com/newsroom/Hagens-Berman-Investigating-Volkswagen-Audi-for-Emissions-Cheating-Software-Polluting-Cars

Hashtag Banterzone posted:

How bad is the pollution without the update? Is it just the EPA being overzealous compared to the EU? Or is it putting out some really bad stuff?

In normal driving (ie. not in super-clean EPA test mode) they put out 10-40x the amount of NOx allowed by EPA standards. That is really bad stuff.

Edit: Here's the EPA report, these and other similar questions are answered in it: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf

bizwank fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 20, 2015

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 16:56

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Lord of Garbagemen posted:

last page, 10- 40 times greater seems a bit extreme. Being that the EPA is a govt org. with a political agenda I would take everything they say with a ton of salt.

Here's the actual report from West Virginia U's Center for Alternative Fuels Engines and Emissions that prompted the EPA's investigatoin:

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/WVU_LDDV_in-use_ICCT_Report_Final_may2014.pdf

I didn't read the whole thing because it's the weekend but the summary says 5-35x allowed NOx from the two TDI VW's (test cars 1 & 2), and all those measurements were taken on a warm car so maybe the EPA adjusted that to be more realistic, ie. averaging in cold starts and short trips? Regardless, if keeping our finite amount of atmosphere healthy to be living in is a "political agenda" then it's one I fully support.

CommieGIR posted:

I can regularly get 50-51 highway, but my TDI is a unicorn.

When I had a longer, all-highway commute I could get 45 without trying, and 49-50 if I kept it at 60mph the whole way.

bizwank fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Sep 20, 2015

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 19:10

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

What the hell is the speed limit where you live? It's generally 60-70 on what I drive here and I do a blistering 5 over at most. Hell, on trips to Colorado in winter I'll usually get low to maybe mid 30's with the occasional tank in the high 20's. Yeah, that's winter fuel in cold conditions at 80mph but my buddies GLI doesn't do much worse on the same drive.

As far as I understand it air resistance increases exponentially with speed, ie. the faster you go the harder the engine has to work to maintain speed and the more fuel you burn per mile. I believe the average automobile is most efficient at 55-60 mph, although specific models have been designed to reduce drag as much as possible in order to post really high mpg ratings, which is why the Prius looks so weird and many hybrids following it had basically the same shape. If you're regularly doing 70-75 on winter fuel then yeah you're going to get worse mpg then I do at 60 mph on standard diesel (I don't think we even get winter fuel in Seattle), and even worse if you're braking and accelerating a lot on that drive vs maintaining a steady speed.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 21:27

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Well you'd have to show actual damages so suing for the loss in resale value would probably be your easiest number to arrive at right now, and if you get the recall "update" done, add on the difference in fuel costs for the expected remaining life of the car. Should be easy to hit $3K with one or both of those.

I emailed the firm who filed the class-action with some questions similar to yours, I'll post what I hear back from them.

Correction: I emailed one of the firms that filed a class-action (Keller Rohrback), there appear to have been 3-4 suits filed by different firms at this point.

bizwank fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 21, 2015

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 21:35

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

It's talking about Europe, and it's saying that the computer tests they use to measure emissions may not be as accurate as measuring at the tailpipe (duh). The US diesels can pass emissions when the ECU lets them, unless you're suggesting they're also manipulating sensor data, in which case we can't trust the mpg numbers on the dash either.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 23:34

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

movax posted:

If I had one of the affected models right now, I'd dump the ECU software / calibrations for affected systems such that you could revert any 'mandatory' recall flashes and such. Who cares if they re-flash it if you just flash it back

Maybe a couple of other modules in-case there's some version checking at work.

You're welcome to my A3 if you have the necessary tools...

# ¿ Sep 22, 2015 01:57

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

movax posted:

If you're in or near Seattle, sure. Crack open the module in question, see which MCU it's using and then dump over JTAG or similar and see what code security measures were used, if any. When I was in the industry, we never bothered -- chances of attack were low and it wasn't worth our time in validation to implement measures to prevent it.

I am in Seattle but I don't know what any of those other words mean.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2015 17:12

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

The defeat code is not limited to DPF vehicles, it effects everything with a EA189 engine in it. One of the two test vehicles that kicked this thing off was a new Passat with an AdBlue system.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2015 21:23

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Jealous Cow posted:

So when will this start driving down dealer prices? I assume at a minimum traffic will drop off due to the bad press and uncertainty.

Kinda want to replace my CX-5 with a Touraeg.

Much too early to tell, but as long as there's still demand prices will probably stay the same. Also see: all the people saying "can't wait to scoop up a TDI!" in this and many other threads.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2015 18:04

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Of course sales wanted to take it, they wanted their commission. I would have done the exact same thing, it's way too early to tell what will happen with those cars and a dealership would be stupid to take one in right now, especially considering they might not even be able to sell it legally.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2015 22:19

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

bull3964 posted:

Who the hell are they going to have left to even fix the issue? If they couldn't fix it fully staffed, they sure as hell are not going to fix it after they fire all their engineering leads as scapegoats.

The "fix" is already in the ecu, it just needs to be activated full-time instead of only activating when it detects testing. Everyone gets a check for the difference in fuel costs, problem solved, at least at the owner level.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2015 02:32

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

The ECU update they released in December was supposed to be a fix for the issue.

Wrong. It was purely a stalling attempt while they tried to figure out what to do now that they had been discovered, and it bought them almost a year. The cars can already pass emissions, the code already exists in the ECU, it just needs to be enabled full-time.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2015 16:22

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

Such a simple fix! I wonder why they haven't done that?

Because there is no "simple fix" for this clusterfuck at this point; the cars meeting emissions is now only one small part of it. Clearly the cars can meet emissions with code that's already in the ecu, otherwise they would have been failing state emission tests since 2010 and they wouldn't have passed the EPA's tests in the first place. VW was trying to hide this for as long as possible, and they only came clean at the last possible second when their future sales were threatened. That's why they haven't "fixed" this yet, even though it would have been smarter to do it before they got caught.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2015 17:51

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

thatguy posted:

Is that actually clear? Emissions tests take place solely in software. There's no actual tailpipe emissions testing. Remember honda engineers said they were never able to replicate NOx emissions in any car without a urea tank, yet until 2015 VW didn't use adblue.

Nothing is clear at this point, but there isn't a single state that still does tailpipe emissions testing? VW themselves said that there's a defeat device in the ECU that detects when emissions testing is done and changes the mapping to run clean to meet EPA standards. There hasn't been a single mention of sensor data being manipulated to "fake" a clean test. Yes that is possible, but it's also possible someone at the EPA knew about this all along and was taking kickbacks but their conscious finally got the better of them. It's also possible that this is all part of a Punk'd long-con to announce Ashton Kutcher as the new celebrity face of VW. It's also possible this is all a secret Nazi plot to keep killing people with gas. There's no evidence to support any of those theories though so is really there any point to bloating up this thread with them?

# ¿ Sep 26, 2015 18:13

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Just got an email from Audi USA, first contact I've had from them as an owner of an effected A3:

quote:

Dear bizwank,

In recent days, news articles have mentioned Audi in connection with the ongoing action involving certain TDI diesel products that do not comply with emissions standards.

The numbers reported are startling: Nearly 500,000 Volkswagen and Audi models in the United States. Without question, this has caused confusion and concern in your mind about our products, and even our brand overall.

That�s why I�d like to set the record straight here.

First, allow me to define what�s at issue for Audi in America. The Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board have determined that Audi A3 models equipped with 2.0-liter TDI engines contained software aimed at producing better emissions results in testing, and that these vehicles do not comply with emissions standards.

These cars represent a limited, but symbolically important part of our lineup. Altogether, we have sold approximately 14,300 A3 TDI models to U.S. customers starting with the 2010 model year. But we know that an owner � and the credibility of our great brand � stands behind each one of these cars.

Make no mistake, we at Audi of America view this situation as unacceptable and we are pushing for remedies that can be presented to regulatory authorities and to our loyal customers and fans. We intend to make things right.

If you own an Audi A3 2.0-liter TDI model we want to start a dialogue with you, and we will be reaching out directly by phone over the next couple of weeks with additional information, support and next steps. The affected A3 2.0-liter TDI models are safe and legal to drive while the engineers develop a remedy. Audi diesel models with the 3.0-liter V6 TDI engines � the Q5, Q7, A6, A7 and A8 � were not referenced in the EPA�s letter, they remain on the market, and are available at dealerships.

In the meantime, I encourage you to let us know if you have any questions by calling 800-822-2834, or by e-mail to auditalk@audi.com. As your representative for Audi in America, I will keep our team focused on maintaining your trust in our products, our technologies and our people. We will do the right thing by you.

Best regards,
Scott Keogh
Scott Keogh
President
Audi of America, Inc.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 23:25

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Kramdar posted:

Now, I'm basing this on what my estimates were told to me by VW dealers.

So these are repairs that you didn't pay for, or that haven't even been done? What actual monetary losses do you have (besides that $60 tank of gas) that you would be trying to recover from VW? As opposed to theoretical future losses like resale value or fuel efficiency.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 23:44

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

I could actually be interested in trading in my 2013 TDI on something since I don't like having an out of warranty VW with a ticking time bomb in the fuel system but can't because no dealer wants it and the resale value is trashed. Do I have a case?

I'm not a lawyer but generally you have to prove your claim. Unless you actually try to sell your car for a reasonable amount given it's age and condition and all of the offers are substantially lower then what that same car was selling for immediately prior to this debacle, how would you prove that the resale value for your car has been effected?

# ¿ Nov 7, 2015 20:04

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

wilfredmerriweathr posted:

If literally no dealers will accept your very new and in great condition car as a trade in then I think you've got a decent case. But I'm not a lawyer.

If it was illegal or otherwise impossible to sell your car to anyone but a dealer, sure.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2015 01:07

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Where's my $1K Audi?? I need some new rimzzz

# ¿ Nov 9, 2015 19:22

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Looks like Audi has rolled out a similar "goodwill package" but only for the 2010-'13 A3 (2.0L TDI):

http://www.audidieselinformation.com/

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 02:25

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Seriously; I clicked "Check my VIN" and went looking for the focus knob on my monitor. Headache city.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 20:15

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

Put the driver side lock assembly all back together but not in the door, then try it. If it works then it's probably binding on something rather then it being an electrical issue.

A relay is basically an electric switch that is activated by a low-voltage signal. So, when you hit your door unlock button the car's computer sends 12V to one side of the relay which "switches" it and allows 12V to flow through the other side to the doorlock solenoid which in turn manipulates the locking assembly (more or less). If you have a multi-meter you should be able to test the relay by unhooking the solenoid side and putting the leads across each terminal in continuity mode, triggering it with the switch and seeing if it opens/closes as it should. You can use roughly this same method to look for bad fuses or any wires with breaks/shorts in them. Think of it like taking apart a long pipe assembly then testing each section until you find the one that's blocked.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 18:32

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

I've got about $340 left of my Audi TDI penance money but my next service (55K) is a year away and free; what's worth buying at the dealership for a '11 A3?

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 21:51

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

bizwank posted:

I've got about $340 left of my Audi TDI penance money but my next service (55K) is a year away and free; what's worth buying at the dealership for a '11 A3?

Self-quote because I just thought of something related to this: has anyone tried to use their "dealer only" card to make a purchase somewhere besides the dealer? When I used mine at the dealership today they just swiped it through their cc machine like any other card, and I signed a normal looking cc receipt. There's a 16 digit Visa number on the back, a cvv code and an expiration date, so it seems this might be just another pre-paid Visa card in Audi/VW clothing. Unless every dealership uses the same credit card processor I don't see how they could control where these cards are used, and are instead hoping that everyone will just assume they're some sort of magic VW/Audi gift card that won't work anywhere else. I might try running a small transaction at work tomorrow to see if it goes through...

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 01:33

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

gently caress that I'm keeping mine

# ¿ Jan 8, 2016 03:30

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

Where do they plan on putting an adblue tank on my car that doesn't eat into cargo room that I actually use on a somewhat regular basis?

Say goodbye to some cargo room.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 19:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:53

bizwank: Oct 4, 2002

fknlo posted:

Yeah, I don't really find that kind of solution acceptable if that's all they're going to do.

Here's all the fucks VW gives about whether you find their solution "acceptable": :flip:

They're trying to appease the EPA/justice department; if they don't piss off and lose all of their customers in the process, that's just a bonus. Personally the only reason I got into the VAG group in the first place was for the TDI so if I get hit with a mandatory buy-back I'm just sticking that money in my Tesla M3 jar and taking the bus for a while. The gently caress do I want with a petrol engine in 2016.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 19:58

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