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Omerta posted:I have to take out 15k a year, scholarship covered the rest and parents are getting my living expenses. Free Gucci. You'll still die alone.
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May 7, 2010 03:01
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Ersatz posted:Just wait until you're celebrating the end of the year by preparing for an interview during your final round of finals. Just wait until you graduate and have a job and there is no celebrating again ever because there is always something billable that you could be doing instead.
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May 8, 2010 22:37
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Avalanche posted:Or is the entire paralegal profession just a massive joke that gets tons of people to pay mad amounts of cash for worthless community college classes? Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Having hired a number of paralegal over the years, the unemployed folks with a four year degree from a real college in whatever major always outperformed the two year dolts from 13th grade with their paraleglulz certificates.
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May 10, 2010 10:58
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Roger_Mudd posted:I'd be hired in as mass tort but as the youngest associate I'd be doing family law, PI, and general business law as needed. We always try to keep a 1st-3rd year attorney around our office for these sorts of purposes. We call that attorney the office "boy," regardless of gender. That is "boy" as short for "piss boy" a la Mel Brooks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0 You'll learn a lot, but a lot of what you will learn will be unpleasant.
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May 14, 2010 01:18
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GregNorc posted:On another note, do 'spergers get URM status? I jokingly suggested one of my friends who's currently looking at materials science poo poo to write an essay about how spergin out effected his life and poo poo and he could totally get a free ride to HYS, and now he's obsessed with the idea he can go to Yale for free because of his "disability" Wanna see some 'spergin? It's "affected" not "effected." Spergers tend to gravitate to law review, so they can argue about affected and effected and sperg out about citation formats. Incredulous Red posted:Think like a lawyer.txt Nope. He is more like the anti-lawyer, taking risks and having some fun. A real lawyer would never shut up a right of way without a court order, for fear of getting sued or held in contempt. Nor would a real lawyer tear down a gate without a court order (and waiting until the appeal deadline had passed). Thinking like a lawyer is being paralyzed with fear.
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May 18, 2010 11:15
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Alaemon posted:Move to strike, unresponsive. Sustained. Counsel?
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May 20, 2010 01:55
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evilweasel posted:Anyone have any tips on being a summer associate? The answer to the question "do you have time to . . . .?" is always yes.
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May 21, 2010 17:37
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evilweasel posted:We were specifically warned to not take on too much work since doing a bad job on one thing will significantly outweigh having done a lot of things. However, you'd better be able to justify why you're too busy (and they suggested you say "well, I have all these things to do: x,y,z, I don't think I can do an excellent job on all those and this", and let them work out which one you should stop working on. Yes, we always tell the lawclerks this too. And we don't mean it. But you say the nice thing to be nice. And the ones who are going to work out "get it" and say yes to all work and do whatever they have to do to get it done and do a good job. The ones who were too busy just never seem to work out. gvibes posted:I disagree. You'd rather do amazing work on fewer projects while saying no "to" a few people than spreading yourself too thin. I have never seen a summer clerk do amazing work. I have seen a few say "no" to projects, but I didn't see them for very long. builds character posted:
Let me agree and embellish a bit. In law school, they teach you to see both sides, balance the issue, compare the weight of authority, and objectively determine what the right answer is. That is the completely wrong approach when you are a lawyer, and acting as an advocate and a client representative. You must learn to think in a results-oriented way. Here is an example. My first year as a lawyer, the biggest, scariest partner gave me a research assignment. He wanted the answer to be "yes." I burned the midnight oil and gave him a comprehensive review of the law, which concluded with the answer being "no." I dropped it off. An hour later, I get called in and screamed at. He said "I can find a hundred lawyers off of the street that will come in and tell me 'no.' How do I get to yes?" The point is, try to put yourself in the attorney's shoes and find a way to make his or her life easier. I am not saying you should hide or minimize contrary authority, but be aware of how you present your result and don't be part of a problem, be part of a solution. To steal a line from the curmudgeon's guide to practicing law, the law firm is a free market. If you want to stay employed, satisfy the people who can give you work.
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May 21, 2010 23:31
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evilweasel posted:This is awesome, thanks. Are there any other things I might be getting told that are complete lies and I need to not believe? Alright, maybe I overstated things. I guess at the time we tell the law clerks not to overextend themselves, we probably mean it. But then later, in the heat of battle, it is the furthest thing from from our minds. The point stands - the clerks who don't take work never seem to work out.
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May 22, 2010 03:32
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jonmitz posted:Did anyone here have a graduate degree in engineering (in my case, MS EE, 3.7+) and then go to law school? From what I understand, they are rare, and highly sought after. Don't ruin your marketability by going to law school. You have a legit degree, do something with it.
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May 23, 2010 03:47
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Macnigore posted:Hi, I am contacting you in an effort to secure an internship in tax law, starting in January of 2011. I recently passed the bar exam in Paris, and I have started my training in the EFB Paris. I have studied tax law at every level of my education. I received my undergraduate degree from the Cergy-Pontoise university, where I began taking tax law courses. I studied for my Master's Degree at La Sorbonne University (Master 2 de Droit des Affaires et Fiscalité). I now have an extensive understanding of corporate French and International tax matters. I have had the occasion to meet the Paris [Law firm] team during a breakfast at your offices. I was impressed by your very welcoming and friendly attitude despite the workload inherent to working in a law firm like yours. I regard [Law firm] as a prestigious international law firm, and I would be excited to work for you. In joining your team as an intern I aim to develop my skills and enjoy a stimulating work environment. My previous internships taught me the fundamental importance of both teamwork and attention to detail. Open and flexible, I aspire to fit in quickly and easily in the teams I join. I have made every effort to be conversant in English. I practice English daily, and I have traveled numerous times to the United States. My current internship at Ernst & Young Paris has required intensive English communication, since most of the firm's clients are not French. Therefore I am practiced in legal research, writing and speaking in English. I understand the importance of a clear and practical answer to the legal questions submitted to me. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your consideration, Filthy French snail-eater. BTW - is the firm going to know what EFB is? Because I don't.
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May 24, 2010 11:18
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Macnigore posted:Thanks a lot solomon and yes they will know what EFB means since its the only place in Paris where you study to become a lawyer. Its a monopoly. My reaction was that the letter was written by a very well educated person who had picked up English as a second language. I tried to make the letter sound like a native speaker. However, builds character did a better job of it.
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May 24, 2010 17:06
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SlyFrog posted:
It is not so much that we are amoral. I do feel bad when I dump on someone junior to me. But my options are (1) the work doesn't get done (not acceptable); (2) I do the work; or (3) kick it down the hill to junior. Deciding between 2 and 3 can be tough. If I have a choice between ruining a normal weekend for me or for junior, I will usually pick junior. I justify it to myself as "when I was junior's age, I worked through mother's day, and that partner made me miss aunt zelda's barbecue, etc. It is the life junior has chosen, it is his turn now. I will make it up to junior someday for doing this to him now." That justification works for normal weekends/evenings. But I would never force an associate to miss a special occasion unless it was critically important. But I am shitlaw, not biglaw. Don't underestimate how stressful and fast-paced practicing law is. We often just don't have time to factor in associate's needs into the equation. Work has to get done. Now.
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May 24, 2010 20:30
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Roger_Mudd posted:Is it like that at small firms too? I mean I understand the urgency of work (as I type this at work while not working) but I like having a life.... I mean StarCraft 2 is about to come out! It is a matter of scale. The grind is not nearly as bad at small firms. But it is difficult to balance workloads perfectly, and occasionally you get overwhelmed and have to start dumping. I usually bill around 160 hours a month, but we recently had a 3 week trial where I and two partners billed around 300 hours for that month. Regular work had to go somewhere, so the associates suffered, too. But in a biglaw firm, that kind of thing happens many times a year. For me, it is once every couple of years.
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May 24, 2010 21:17
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SlyFrog posted:
If I have one of those 4-hours-of-work days, I go play golf. That is a big difference between small law and biglaw. entris posted:Did he go from undergrad straight to law school? A lot of people say that they hate their first "real world" job, simply because they've never worked at one before. I've seen this translate into JDs who graduate after going straight through from college, who then get a job at a law firm as their first real job ever, and they hate it and hate it but really only because it's a job and they aren't used to working like adults yet. I can't think of anything that better prepared me for law school and becoming a lawyer than working in an office for a couple of years between college and law school. You learn time budgeting, you learn focus, and you learn what having a job is like. Green Crayons posted:Probably an obvious point to add to this, but try to find a MSJ written by the attorney you're writing it for and, in lieu of that, an attorney from the same team. This is where Google Desktop can make you look like a genius. sigmachiev posted:I just wanted to say the last couple pages about the industry stuff have been really interesting and it's appreciated. New question (turning away from the difficulties): What was the funnest summer associate activity you did? I don't remember the funnest, but I remember the funniest. I went to some legal dinner at a local hotel with the firm. After the event, I kept drinking with a female partner, who was pounding. It got late, she excused herself to go to the restroom, and disappeared. I thought she left, and I was getting ready to leave, when the bar manager came over to me. The partner had passed out, face down on the floor of the bathroom. The manager told me I either needed to get her out of there, or he was calling EMS. I called MY GIRLFRIEND to come pick us up, and we went into the women's bathroom. I picked up the partner, literally threw her over my shoulder, carried her out and dumped her in the backseat of my girlfriend's car, behind the driver's seat. I went through her purse, found her address, and we started heading for her home, with my girlfriend driving. Halfway there, the partner woke up, and began "driving" by reaching around the driver's seat and grabbing my girlfriend's breasts. She "drove" for close to 10 minutes before we got her home and dropped her off with her husband and young children.
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May 25, 2010 17:48
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Mr Gentleman posted:so I am a little mixed up: is there a civil equivalent to witness tampering charges? how does it work if you tamper with witnesses in a civil case? I think most statutes ostensibly cover tampering with witnesses in both civil and criminal cases, but the statutes themselves are criminal Contempt of court. Or if you want to file an action for damages, look at the tort of spoliation of evidence. Also determine whether your state has a statute that makes the violation of criminal statutes actionable for damages. Lancelot posted:I'm writing a paper on international bank transfers. I'm a New Zealand student, but I'm trying to canvass the US and the EU in this essay. I'm having a bit of trouble working out what the US conflict of law rules are. Do you guys use the same rules for inter-state and international conflicts? Do you have any legislation for jurisdictional stuff that would help me out? Interstate and international conflict of laws are completely different and very complicated. It is difficult to generalize, but most interstate conflict questions start by looking at the conflict of law statute of the state where the the complaining party resides, compared against the conflict of law statute of the state of the other party, and factoring in which state has the most significant relationship to the dispute. International conflict of laws is a subject of some international treaties, I think.
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May 26, 2010 17:41
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Green Crayons posted:So, I don't understand. Don't you actually detest your small(ish?) law job? That's how your posts come across when you're talking about your lot in life. But you're always here with really insightful advice when it comes to what it means to be a lawyer/the legal field/the actual practice of law. The two don't seem to gel. (e: Maybe I'm conflating knowledge of those aspects with a positive interest in being a laywer?) There are parts of being a lawyer I enjoy. I like the intellectual challenge, research, writing, solving puzzles, etc. Now that I am a few years in and can manage my time relatively well, I enjoy the flexibility. If I need to work from home while I wait for the plumber to show up, I usually can. But I hate the business of law, tracking time, trying to find clients, billing, collecting on the bills, paying overhead, arguing with partners, etc. I also don't really like the social work of dealing with clients' emotional needs. Losing cases really sucks, too. Now 12 years in practice, with a family to support, I have accepted that this is my profession and I try to make the best of it. I have a comfortable life, but am by no means rich. I was hoping to do better financially, but who doesn't. So it is a mixed bag. On bad days you'll hear me chirping.
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May 27, 2010 11:59
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Hey "The Warp" - If she won't take it from us, then will she listen to the president of the California Bar Association? http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/c...the%20President Favorite quote: "For the foreseeable future the starter jobs that provided traditional training for those lawyers are not coming back "
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May 28, 2010 20:53
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The Warp posted:Mission Accomplished Now her resentment begins to build, as she tries to find something to do with a rhetoric degree. As she slogs from fast food restaurant to temp agency, she will hold one person, and one person only, responsible for her miserable lot in life - you. You, the Warp, you. You who crushed her life's dream of being a lawyer. But for you and your desire to keep her down, she would be wearing Ally McBeal skirts and making $200,000. Why did you have to ruin her life? Defleshed posted:I'm not seeing anyone living up to this past winter's whining/bitching about the bar prep courses. Are all you bar takers actually... studying? It is just early June. People are still loving around. Wait a few weeks. diospadre posted:How do people wear nice shirts without undershirts? Especially if they're starchy, they'd tear the poo poo out of my skin. Maybe I've just got baby princess skin though. Hey princess, I have been wearing all cotton, lightly starched dress shirts without an undershirt every weekday since 1996. Suck it up.
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Jun 4, 2010 17:20
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Sexcess!
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quotison posted:I think every state is two days except California and Louisiana. Ohio was three days when I took it back in the stone age.
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Jun 6, 2010 03:40
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newberstein posted:So just a little bit of an update. I am going to visit my VP uncle at [T14 school] this upcoming weekend. He let me know today that he has arranged for me to meet with two professors as well as the director of admissions for the law school. My problem is that some lady from alumni and donor relations (neither of which apply to me) sent me a huge list of questions that I might be asked. Forgive me if this is retarded, as I have never had to interview for anything in my life, but I really don't know how to answer one of the questions. It states something along these lines: Are your grades a good representation of your academic achievement? As I have stated before my grades are average, 3.4 (but rising steadily). I would suggest a less specific answer, something like "it took me a little while to get my priorities in order."
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Jun 11, 2010 11:16
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BigHead posted:If you are smart enough to make through a physics undergrad, then you are smart enough not to go. That pretty much says it all.
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Jun 13, 2010 13:58
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Neko Sou posted:Aside from making you bitter, where does family law fall? I had the impression that ugly divorces aside you could directly help someone without the horrible feeling of "oops I just sent that guy to jail for 15 years" hanging over your head. Family law is horrible. You don't want to do it unless you have a personality disorder. Everyone always ends up hating you, even your own client. Watching the kids get punted around like a football is the worst, especially when the clients start accusing each other of abusing the kids, real or imagined.
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Jun 15, 2010 11:22
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Kase Im Licht posted:Lots of dumb family law attorneys practicing out there too it seems like. Yes. The family law field self-selects for personality disorders and lack of intelligence. No offense, Echopapa. I am assuming that you have a personality disorder.
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Jun 15, 2010 18:26
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echopapa posted:None taken. My personality disorder is that I need to eat and Legal Aid was hiring. Legal aid is different. There, you are doing the Lord's work. So hat's off to you. Just try not to get too bitter.
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Jun 16, 2010 10:17
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I Am Not Clever posted:I had no idea about any of this doom and gloom. If what you're saying is true, it sounds like the legal profession is in very bad shape in this country. There is one way that law school makes sense here. If you go to your uncle, and say "Uncle, I would like to work for you while in law school and thereafter, and take over your practice when you want to retire" and he says "That is a great idea!" then go to law school. Otherwise, don't go, no jobs, die alone.
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Jun 17, 2010 21:29
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Mookie posted:On a positive note, the lateral biglaw market is starting to pick up. For the first time in a while, I've started getting a bunch of headhunters calling to try and sell a new job on me. I can validate. I just got called about a lateral position. First time in a couple of years.
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Jun 19, 2010 02:00
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Xane posted:
A litigator.
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Jun 19, 2010 13:30
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toy posted:...also because they strive for a less competitive/cutthroat atmosphere, have an environmental advocacy center on campus that does good work, and is consistently rated as one of the top "environmental law" schools, for whatever that's worth. they also offer some sort of certificate along with your degree if you focus on env. law. Sigh.
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Jun 20, 2010 00:56
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FREE RINGTONEZ posted:There were a few rough patches early on, during which I drank scotch alone in my underwear every night(think opening scene of Apocalypse Now). The older I get, the closer I get to the last scenes of Apocalypse Now. I moved my desk out of the office, broke the lights, and now sit in a dark room with a bowl of water on a stool, wiping my bald head with a dirty rag, avoiding errand boys sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill.
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Jun 20, 2010 13:25
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poofactory posted:I'm looking to retire from the law business in the next couple years. How possible is it to sell my practice that would consist of client files, contacts, web site, work product and some lovely used furniture? I can thrown in a secretary and law clerk but can't guarantee they'll stay. Is there a revenue or profit multiple I can apply or is this a pipe dream? The rule of thumb I heard many years ago was 7X yearly profit. In years past, the occasional PI case would buoy a lot of shaky solo office, and that PI revenue has almost completely dried up. So I suspect that the multiplier has nosedived in recent years. I am aware of an older attorney who sold his practice to a younger attorney for $5,000 about a year ago. It was a shitlaw practice, but it was a longstanding, relatively stable practice.
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Jun 21, 2010 17:39
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poofactory posted:7x profit sounds really high. Is that before or after I take my salary and other benefits? I would sell right now either way. Business is stable and has steadily increased over the years. I'd say 15% average growth. No PI stuff to skew the numbers. Well, like I said, that was a long time ago (late nineties). The more recent number was a flat $5,000.
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Jun 22, 2010 02:47
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:gently caress. Basically the only firm in the area that does admiralty is hiring an articling student. How can I spin my criminal/regulatory experience and course load in a way that won't get me laughed out of there? It doesn't help that my school offers next to no classes in that field. Take a picture of yourself looking like this and clip it to your resume:  That way, they will know that you look like an admiralty lawyer.
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Jun 22, 2010 21:37
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Mookie posted:not sure I am a fan of the brown/white spectators with the seersucker. Probably would have gone classic white bucks myself. Looked like spats over derbys to me....
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Jun 23, 2010 00:41
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Put me in for one Don Rader autographed picture. He is my Beard Hero.
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Jun 24, 2010 02:49
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builds character posted:
A certain measure of privacy is required in order to absorb the alcohol through an anal tampon.
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Jun 25, 2010 16:31
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Draile posted:Pro se plaintiffs have all the time in the world it seems. That is just because they charge themselves $0 per hour.
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Jun 29, 2010 11:11
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Alaemon posted:
A friend of mine who does primarily plaintiffs' med mal had his first heart attack at 50, got rushed to the hospital, and who should treat him but a doc that he tried a three week case against about two months prior. Awkward!
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Jul 1, 2010 10:51
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entris posted:I bought $60 worth of fireworks for tonight, none of the really good stuff but some fun things, and now I'm debating whether to bring our kitchen's fire extinguisher with me. There is a park nearby, and apparently that's where my neighborhood goes to set off fireworks. So that's where we're going. Thinking like a lawyer. I was able to turn the lawyer brain off tonight long enough to fire off around $600 worth of fireworks. Only one burn, and can't hear a thing.
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Jul 5, 2010 04:13
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GamingHyena posted:In recent months I've been cultivating a relationship with the legal department of a local government agency, and today I found out there's likely going to be an opening soon. Even though I haven't sent in a resume I'm apparently one of their top candidates. Dare I dream of a day that isn't divided into tenth of an hour increments? The worst idea ever. There are literally too many reasons why it is a bad idea for me to set forth the whole list. Start here - what happens when someone is mean to her? What do you do? Do you stick up for her at risk of your own job? Do you let her take the heat? How do you answer for that when you get home?
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Jul 14, 2010 01:48
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