Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Phil Moscowitz posted:

write a scathing email cc:allstudents

On letterhead.

"From the desk of _________"

But don't sign it "esq.", that'll get you in trouble.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Mr. Fictitious posted:

AFTER TEN THOUSAND YEARS I'M FREEEE

...free to join the profession of law, that is.

...which is a pretty lovely definition of "free."

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Cormack posted:

Holy poo poo I don't have to study for the bar exam again.
yeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss

Hahaha who wants to work in a state that's going to devolve into anarchic city-states within the decade?


Just kidding, congrats man! That's a hard loving bar!

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

TyChan posted:


I've found that the "secret" of making bar preparation less hellish is to be consistent. Procrastination might have been sustainable during law school because you could make an outline, but there is just too much memorization and test-practice necessary to wait until the last minute and comfortably maintain sanity. The people I know really getting frazzled by the process were the ones who sat on their asses until June.

This a thousand times.

Having studied for the bar twice, I can vouch that procrastination is the devil's way. The second time I studied like clockwork, and it worked fine. Skim the reading before the lecture, go to the lecture, outline the lecture (or, in my case, create a mindmap of the topic), do some practice questions, review your prior work, rinse and repeat. It is not a difficult task, it is merely tedious.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
from http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/lgl/1745394388.html:

quote:

Law School Student - Draft List of Appeal Issues

Law School Student - Draft List of Appeal Issues
Make 600.00 cash by Monday the May 24, Need list of appeal issues
supporting narriative.
Contact John @ 703 856-6712
Howard County

$600 cold hard cash, AND I can engage in UPL? Where do I sign up?!

See guys, there are jobs out there, for law students no less!!!

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I only eat tacos with cheese on them because they are tastier.

I met a guy at a party last night who is going to Yale law in the fall, he wants to be an environmental lawyer and he currently works for one of the big environmental nonprofit groups. He's the only 0L interested in environmental law that I haven't tried to dissuade from going to law school.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Duper posted:

Signed up for the October LSAT. The next few months should be fun as hell...

Make sure you study for it! Take a course. Don't just do old exams.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Roger_Mudd posted:

Also if you think the partner has the law wrong, stick to your guns. He or she will appreciate your gumption and determination.

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

I think that the subordinate attorney should stick to his guns if he thinks the partner is wrong, but the subordinate must have good data to back his position up, and must be very polite and respectful when arguing back. Don't just "stick to your guns" in typical layperson argument mode.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Roger_Mudd posted:

What are the odds that a summer associate knows the "correct" law? ;)

Heh I forgot we were talking about the 2L summer associate position.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

GULC Grading Policy posted:

In Fall 2009, the faculty voted to make a change to the recommended grading curve for first-year and upper level examination courses – the new curve is below. In so doing, the faculty also established a grade of A+ to be recorded on official law school transcripts in recognition of truly extraordinary academic performance in a law school class. Because of this high standard, the A+ is not to be routinely awarded – even the best exam or paper in a class might not receive an A+. Please carefully consider whether any A+ grades that you award meet the truly extraordinary academic performance standard.

Got my spring grades today. Got an A+ in my advanced wealth transfer tax course. I was the only person to get that grade in the class, and the professors are adjuncts who work at Venable and Baker Hostetler. I am walking on air right now.

entris fucked around with this message at 04:18 on May 24, 2010

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

HooKars posted:

I wish my boyfriend could see how awesome he has it. He works from 9:30/10ish am - 5:30 - 7 pm on most nights. He takes an hour out of the day to workout, then grabs lunch. During his time in the office, he bills almost every hour he's at work and then he just comes home. If he has extra work to do, he works from home but it's rare. I've never seen him actually go into the office on a weekend and he rarely ever works on weekends but if he does, it's usually contained to Sunday night for a few hours. The Iphone stays in the kitchen and not by the bed while we sleep. His paycheck is over $100k, he doesn't kill himself over it, he's hitting his billables, and he likes every single person in his department. He's a second year but both of us still get invited to the firm box for client ball games and hockey games so there are also actually some perks.

Yet he still manages to hate his job. Drives me crazy.

Did he go from undergrad straight to law school? A lot of people say that they hate their first "real world" job, simply because they've never worked at one before. I've seen this translate into JDs who graduate after going straight through from college, who then get a job at a law firm as their first real job ever, and they hate it and hate it but really only because it's a job and they aren't used to working like adults yet.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

HooKars posted:

be rich."

The best job.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

sigmachiev posted:

New question (turning away from the difficulties): What was the funnest summer associate activity you did?

My favorite activity as a summer associate was confronting my 50-year-old boss about his 30-year-old ex-hooker girlfriend domestically abusing him in his house above the basement home office where I worked. She threw a heavy glass candle holder at him once, and sent him to the hospital with stitches above one of his eyes. Another time she ripped off the rear-view mirror of his lovely 1980s used Porsche and brought it into the office where she chucked it at him. (Perhaps my favorite memory is the time that she came down into the office to hide from the cops.)

I particularly enjoyed the part where I said that I couldn't work in such an environment, and that he shouldn't have to either. And then I quit!

Ah, to be a 2L again...


(all of this true, without embellishment)

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Vander posted:

Serious question: When a cop pulls someone over, is it a question of law or fact as to whether it is a Terry stop?

isn't it a question of law, looking at the totality of the circumstances?

/in reality, aren't all vehicle pull-overs also Terry stops? I don't remember.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Draile posted:

The LSAT is an extremely learnable test. You can go from average to 90th percentile with enough effort. But the word is effort. Sitting passive in Kaplan won't do it. You have to study the structure of the exam and take lots of practice tests and review them once you're through.

Your position is too strong. The LSAT is learnable, certainly, but not extremely learnable. It is very difficult to improve significantly on the LSAT. You're right, the student must really study hard and can't just passively take a Kaplan course and treat it like an undergrad lecture or something.

I have rarely seen students who start in the mid 150's get up to 170, more often I see them edge up into the low 160s.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

The Warp posted:

She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that.

:ughh:

I need to let this sit for a couple of days because now we're just straight up fighting about it. She thinks she has no choice in the matter and that this is what she wants to do, I should just shut up and support her, blah blah. She thinks that it'll be totally fine if she goes to a lovely school, it's fine if she settles, at least she'll have an edge on people with just undergraduate degrees if she has not be a lawyer and just enter the job market. This is getting so stupid. "Yes, all of these guys on this website are just trying to trick and you and I, and they're not really lawyers or students, it's just a vast network of carefully planned trolls with nothing more important to do than to gently caress with you all day and night."

There was a research paper published recently that discussed whether going to law school was a sound investment. Google that, and show it to her, because it shows pretty conclusively that her current path is not financially sound.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
You know what? Your girlfriend has until the fall to withdraw. She should start talking to lawyers, as many as she can, and see what they say. I would put money down that ZERO lawyers tell her to go to WSU. ZERO.

if she doesn't like what we're telling her, she needs to go talk to local attorneys, friends of the family or whatever, because they may feed it to her straight.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I love how this thread has devolved into testimonials about unemployment in the legal field. If we keep this up for another two or three pages, this thread is going to become a sucking black hole.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

I'm meeting the Communist Party of China tomorrow. Would it be bad form to beg for a job? I'm willing to run a WoW/Eve gold-farming operation if they'll let me.

Why would you have to beg for a job? I thought communism was all about giving everyone what they need? You need a job, ergo...

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Stunt Rock posted:

I got put on a defendant's "hit list" in a custody case recently, along with the judge hearing the case. I'm closer to dying alone than any of the rest of you now :smug:

Estate planners are rough-riders too, man. We live on the edge:

quote:

Alexandria lawyer Kenneth E. Labowitz was sleeping soundly late Tuesday, after preparing for a morning hearing in a routine estate case, when three masked men claiming to be federal police officers forced their way into his home.

Before the night was done, Labowitz had been abducted at gunpoint, tortured with a stun gun, forced to stand at the edge of a freshly dug shallow grave and rescued by alert residents and police. Throughout the incident, he was convinced that at least one of his abductors was a principal in the scheduled morning hearing over the disputed million-dollar estate of an elderly client.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47976-2004Dec8.html

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Ainsley McTree posted:

I've posted this before, but it never stops being relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU



I only got a B in my Defensive Maneuvers for Lawyers class :(

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I'm at a conference at UVa law, and I walked around the outside of the JAG building, which is next door. Pretty boring building but it's cool to see people walking around in fatigues and holding casebooks.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

vibrantglow posted:

thanks, won that bet. my friend was convinced they weren't. sucks for him and his embellished story

I would like to hear the backstory to this.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
Hahaha you guys are terrible.

I wanted to know what vibrantglow's friend had put in his personal statement, that he would worry about the bar reading it.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

BigHead posted:

I think I just got my first work. A friend of mine is trying to sell his home-made halfpipe (for skateboarding) on Craigslist and asked me advice for writing up something to release him from liability. I told him to gently caress off since I don't pass the bar until next month - knock on wood - but then he offered to actually pay me. I haven't the slightest idea about anything, but I said I'll go for it!

Oh, god.

Once you are admitted, head down to your local courthouse's law library, and/or your local law school's law library, and look through the stacks for form books or practitioner's handbooks for your jurisdiction.

I just did an Asset Purchase Agreement by finding five different agreement forms, cobbling together the provisions that I wanted, editing a few things here and there, and then sending it on to the client. I did a little background research about such agreements first, though, to make sure I wasn't missing some horrible career-ending issue. Easy money. (Not a lot of it, though :( )

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Defleshed posted:

Just want to say that "undoubtedly totally bitchin" is a phrase that brightened my spirits this day.

Also, don't write a loving liability release for anyone if you haven't passed the bar and been admitted you dummy.

e: A couple of people have asked me to do wills for them. I can totally do this (we're not talking people with offshore accounts and millions of net worth tied up in annuities or anything, more like my stoner friends from high school who want to make sure their girlfriend gets the blown-glass bong if they eat too many mushrooms one night or something) but I was wondering how do you find out what is reasonable to charge someone?

I mean, I'm basically going to be teaching myself to do this out of the Cook County law library and I know I can't (or shouldn't) charge for that, but should I just go "flat-fee" based on what I think seems a reasonable amount of time vs. compensation?

I recommend flat fees for most estate planning work, at least regarding drafting projects. Charge them a couple hundred dollars, if they are single with simple assets. If they are married, a couple hundred per person. "A couple hundred" can be anywhere from $200 to $500, but I'd keep it under $500 for simple work.

If you had an established practice, I think you'd charge more, but just starting out I think those rates are reasonable. But then, that is just my opinion, which is heavily dependent on my experience in my market, which may be very different from your market.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Forever Zero posted:

While law is in a bad place at least you are not chiropractic students. Something to think about to cheer you guys up.

I don't understand how this is supposed to cheer us up. Chiropractors are permitted by law to commit fraud and collect money, they have it pretty damned easy.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

SWATJester posted:

Which is teaching them how to practice fraud, a valuable life skill.

You would think that we lawyers were taught this in law school, from the way people talk about our profession.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

diospadre posted:

So law school/chiropractic school are exactly the same.

Uh, no. One of them is a school full of quack teachers and naive students, and the other is a school where they teach you how to manipulate the spine to achieve better health.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

diospadre posted:

Unless your uncle will hire you out of school, do not go. Even then do not go unless you actually want to be a lawyer.

I Am Not Clever, this is your answer. Non-T1 schools only make sense if you have a family firm that you are planning to enter, because then you are guaranteed a job.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

toy posted:

lol, this is not a troll. i post rarely and don't have time for that poo poo.

i am also serious about that last Q regarding the possibilities of env. law.

also your conception of me is hilariously wrong. i am a poor, radical environmental activist and work as a barista.

I'm leaning towards troll, here. We have someone with a 170 / 4.0, who writes like my kid brother.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

HooKars posted:

I applied to a paralegal job asking for 5 years experience at the company that my dad used to work for (and was general counsel for and he submitted my resume to). I was thinking I might actually hear back that I wasn't qualified enough because it required so many years of experience and I only have like 2 years of actual paralegal experience.

Wrong. The person thought it "wouldn't be challenging enough" for me and that "the payscale wouldn't be good enough for me." And my dad said he couldn't disagree (thanks Dad). The job paid about $60k to start and since if I'm honest, I have no real interest in being a lawyer, would have been perfect for me. I can't figure out what kind of job my dad thinks I'll magically get.

I see that your father wants to put you into therapy. :\

To not get a job because it "wouldn't be challenging enough" or that it doesn't pay enough, when it's a $60k starting salary, would make me froth at the mouth. Your father has seriously done you harm, and he needs to understand that.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Linguica posted:

A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects, shall inform the appropriate professional authority.

So, if you don't report Baruch, I have to report you, right? poo poo this is getting recursive.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
What the gently caress is happening to this thread? Do we really need another discussion/explanation of the whole video game guild leader drama thing? Not picking on you, evilweasel, but one mention of bankruptcy law and whoosh this thread went off to the races about Mr. Dargon or whoever.

On an unrelated note, I am in the process of interviewing college seniors and recent grads for a low-paying administrative assistant position, and I just had a phone interview with one student who wants to go to law school for "international law and constitutional law." She doesn't like "international law" as much because she isn't that interested in principles of sovereignty, so she thinks constitutional law is a better fit for her.

To my credit, I did not laugh into the phone when she said this.

Tomorrow I'm going to interview some dude who does mixed martial arts on the side, was in a frat, and wants this job. Pretttty sure he's not gonna fit in at this office, even though I myself love mixed martial arts.

entris fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 24, 2010

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Jack_tripper posted:

Since you already have these three crucial pieces of info and have already determined that he's not gonna fit in at that office, why not call and let him know he's wasting his time? Or perhaps just advise him that he won't be getting the job, but if he'd like to interview anyway you'd be glad to accommodate him just to make note of the dumb things he will say so that you may mock him for your internet friends.

Well, his cover letter and resume are good, and I don't want to dismiss a frat member just because I'm not a big fan of frats. He's not going to fit in if he's a big party animal and/or a meathead fighter type, but there are plenty of frat boys who aren't assholes and there are plenty of mixed martial arts people who are smart and reasonable. So despite these elements, I'm willing to spend twenty minutes to flesh out my picture of him, because his other credentials are acceptable.

edit: also, I don't have internet friends. :( I just post on the SA forums, which is not the same thing.

entris fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 24, 2010

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

CaptainScraps posted:

Fighters are weird eggs. From what I've seen over 6 years, it's divided 90/10 into people who believe their future is in fighting (not likely) and successful people who really hate themselves (a lot of which are litigators).

Meh, I used to do a lot of that stuff in college and my first year in law school. I know plenty of reasonable people who do that stuff on the side.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

I took Jewish law but it didn't make me Head Jew. :colbert:

edit: I meant "it didn't get me a job with the international Jewish conspiracy"

That sucks, man. :(

Re: the frat boy martial artist that I interviewed earlier: Turned out to be a pretty social, personable guy; didn't seem like the brightest bulb in the box, however. I'd bring him back for an in-person interview except...

I just interviewed a Ph.D. candidate who was personable, smart, and needs a part-time job while finishing the degree. I think we're going to hire this person.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

TyChan posted:

Since everyone in this thread thinks I'm a moron anyway, I'll just ask. Are you serious about this or is my sarcasm detector failing again?

He's totally serious.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

TyChan posted:

3 years of law school and 5 years of being around lawyers has dulled my ability to pick up on sarcasm and irony. If you spend enough time around deluded people devoted to perpetuating rules and systems with little-to-no self-awareness, it does get to you. I've seriously heard similar things spoken seriously in this economy, albeit from risk-averse attorneys who don't have the proverbial (or literal) balls to actually go forward with it.

From my experience, lawyers have an annoying tendency to warp the difficulty of any other profession that is not law. They either assume that everything that is not a firm is either completely impossible to pull off or it's some kind nepotistic scam producing easy money for other people. Has anyone else noticed this?

I was trying to give an ambiguous response that would screw with your defective sarcasm detector :( You were asking whether someone else was sarcastic so I wrote in with a response that could be taken as sarcastic or serious.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
Protip for potential 0Ls: if your parents make your life decisions for you, law school is probably not the place for you.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply