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babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran

Bad: Bones: Pretty much any magic they pull on IDing a bullet. ".30 caliber, a sniper round," "FMJ, a sniper round," etc. Not to mention whiz-bang nonsense about pulling rifling marks out/off of anywhere and matching a gun.

Good: Bones: There's an episode where a bad guy notes "I see you have a Five Hundred Smith and Wesson. That's only got five shots and you've used four." Then he gets popped through a steel door he's using as cover. Yeah, .500 Smith will punch sheet metal JUST FINE.

Other: I've shot a 3" magnum slug out of a PGO 18" Mossberg 590 one-handed and only had a moderately sprained wrist. I've unloaded 10-round mags of 3" #1 buckshot out of my saiga one-handed from the hip to no detriment.

babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 23:03 on May 17, 2010

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NATO
Aug 3, 2009

by Lowtax


Vergeh posted:

I might be confusing this with another movie; it's been a while. The main character comes outside after searching a warehouse for the killer, and the cop is masked and gagged with his gun in his hands, and gets shot in the leg as a result. Crap, this is gonna bug me now.
You are thinking of the very enjoyable Seven ripoff Resurrection.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


The Bad:

Not giving gunfire the volume it deserves. This is especially prevalent is movies with very little gunfire, but where the shots are supposed to be really shocking. It totally ruins the effect when it sounds like a cap gun.

Examples:
Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (still a very good, devastating movie. And a shitload or Marisa Tomei tits.)
Dead Man's Shoes (still one of my favorite movies.)

The Good:

Loud as gently caress gunfire that pretty much square waves your speakers regardless of the volume you're watching at.

Examples:
Narc (the opening scene is so loving amazing and the movie is criminally underrated.)
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (movie is as long and overwrought as the title, but it's still worth seeing.)

Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 22:56 on May 17, 2010

jimothygu
Feb 7, 2004

brilliant!!

Fang posted:

The Interpreter was noteworthy for getting this right. A silenced Glock is portrayed as sounding like a loud clap.

I always thought that the shot at the end of Bourne Identity, when the assassin kills Conklin, sounded pretty realistic of a shot that wasn't using subsonic ammo.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Bad: Bones: Pretty much any magic they pull on IDing a bullet. ".30 caliber, a sniper round," "FMJ, a sniper round," etc. Not to mention whiz-bang nonsense about pulling rifling marks out/off of anywhere and matching a gun.

Good: Bones: There's an episode where a bad guy notes "I see you have a Five Hundred Smith and Wesson. That's only got five shots and you've used four." Then he gets popped through a steel door he's using as cover. Yeah, .500 Smith will punch sheet metal JUST FINE.

Crime shows are terrible for this.

Bad: CSI Vegas: Some dude was making AR DIAS in the back of the shop and got caught. Apparently, a DIAS is roughly the shape of an en bloc clip and plops right in the receiver, bypassing the trigger pins, sear, hammer, all that poo poo. PLUG AND PLAY HURRR

Downright retarded: CSI Miami (surprise): Five point seven? That's a MONSTER CALIBER, can punch through 50 vests in one go! Why would someone have this artillery?!

Good: CSI Vegas: Some dude cut the barrel of his shotgun down and one of the techs noticed that the shot cup had a distinct gouge in it. Gouge was caused by a burr on the jagged muzzle. Do it right and have it recrowned, no burr.

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

Inspector_71 posted:

Narc (the opening scene is so loving amazing and the movie is criminally underrated.)

Well, the world isn't usually that blue... but great scene nonetheless.

fake edit: Wait, was this set at dawn or dusk? I actually haven't seen the movie.

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.

Speaking of bullets passing through a body and breaking glass behind it:

Bad: Road To Perdition. I love the movie, so it doesn't really ruin anything for me, but when Michael Sullivan gets shot at the end while standing in front of a huge picture window, we see some blood spatter, so obviously the bullet penetrated through his body, yet the window is fine.

Good: The Shawshank Redemption. When the Warden puts a gun in his mouth and pulls the trigger, the window behind him shatters.

Not really sure if I need to be spoiling either of those, especially since both have been around for awhile now, but I am not going to be responsible for ruining the movie for anyone that still hasn't seen either.

And speaking of shows, while I do like to catch the reruns on A&E, Criminal Minds has had some stupid poo poo. Examples being Guideon talking about how .22s are choice weapons of gangland assassins because the round bounces around inside a person's head. Also, in an episode where a dude uses a revolver to shoot the dumpy computer chick, and they figure this out because there are no shell casings at the scene, Morgan goes on a little rant about how that's crazy because who the gently caress uses revolvers these days I mean semi-autos why wouldn't you use one?

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



Detective Thompson posted:

And speaking of shows, while I do like to catch the reruns on A&E, Criminal Minds has had some stupid poo poo. Examples being Guideon talking about how .22s are choice weapons of gangland assassins because the round bounces around inside a person's head. Also, in an episode where a dude uses a revolver to shoot the dumpy computer chick, and they figure this out because there are no shell casings at the scene, Morgan goes on a little rant about how that's crazy because who the gently caress uses revolvers these days I mean semi-autos why wouldn't you use one?

My beef with Criminal Minds is that they take these highly-trained elite PhD thinky-type agents and have them always be the ones clearing the house with Glocks looking for the unhinged serial killer. That's what SWAT teams are for, Christ. CSI (all flavors) is bad about this too, from what little I've seen. I do like Criminal Minds, it's just a little contrived is all. The episode where the two brothers were hunting people for sport with bows was pretty creepy.

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.




Psion posted:

If you removed "-assed" this quote becomes true. I assume you are speaking of the 2005 one.

The best (worst) part of that movie was how everyone was using Sig 552s with eighty pounds of crap piled on them and every one was silenced and had terrible "silenced gun noises" that sounded more like someone from Stomp! taking out their aggression on a soup can.


I will say as far as good goes, Black Hawk Down - aside from the oddity of some characters having M4s and sunglasses which didn't exist in 1993 (thanks, IMFDB) - did a reasonably good job keeping the Rangers with appropriate issue weapons like the M16A2/M249 and primarily the Delta characters using non-standard issue weapons.

Also it had Little Birds. You can't go wrong with those!

Hey, I liked Assault on Precinct 13, buddy!

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.

walrusman posted:

My beef with Criminal Minds is that they take these highly-trained elite PhD thinky-type agents and have them always be the ones clearing the house with Glocks looking for the unhinged serial killer. That's what SWAT teams are for, Christ. CSI (all flavors) is bad about this too, from what little I've seen. I do like Criminal Minds, it's just a little contrived is all. The episode where the two brothers were hunting people for sport with bows was pretty creepy.

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Yeah, that's really just dramatic license on the show's part. It wouldn't be quite as entertaining to watch if the BAU guys came and gave their analysis, then went home, which how I assume it really works.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

Alain Perdrix posted:

There are numerous instances of this one, but I remember it most clearly from Full Metal Jacket, with Pvt. Pyle's misadventure with the M14 in the head.

IIRC, it was on a porcelain tile wall behind him too. I can picture the blood and brain splatter, but it never occurred to me that yeah, if the skull has an exit wound, porcelain would shatter too. I should have caught that .

Roundboy
Oct 21, 2008


Criminal minds gets a pass after the tense house clearing Hotch did when looking for his wife. That was tense and well done

beeb: size aside, isn't that *exactly* what the DIAS is, a bit of metal in the lower that sits behind the trigger, hammer, etc? As in, it only touches the hammer when the bolt carrier closes

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

walrusman posted:

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Yeah, you're right. They all do this, and it bugs me everytime. What's more, it's not like the thinky types are armored well. They slap on a vest, and charge in ahead of the guys in head-to-toe tactical armor.

I always catch myself thinking, "Good plan... this will end well for all concerned."

Fake edit: What's more, the tactical guys are always like, "It's clear, sir." To the star. I don't buy it. That tactical commander would be telling the eggheads to get the gently caress off his crime scene and let him do his job.

TheStig
Jan 3, 2009

Just need to mount the guns on the car....


walrusman posted:


I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Good:
I don't know much about proper SWAT tactics, but The Negotiator had SWAT teams doing the room clearing instead of the main characters for the most part.

Bad:
That said Samuel L Jackson did get shot on purpose in the gut but was A-OK.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


walrusman posted:

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Law & Order, Without a Trace usually has HRT involved in takedowns when they're not off-the-cuff.

Even CSI usually has at least a few sheriffs there, or at least Brass, who is a cop and not a lab tech.

Mr. 47 posted:

Well, the world isn't usually that blue... but great scene nonetheless.

fake edit: Wait, was this set at dawn or dusk? I actually haven't seen the movie.

It's called stylization, you dumby (I'm pretty sure Tellis (the cop) is also supposed to be pretty hopped up on something.)

Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 01:00 on May 18, 2010

Bogon
Nov 7, 2006


Capn Beeb posted:

Downright retarded: CSI Miami (surprise): Five point seven? That's a MONSTER CALIBER, can punch through 50 vests in one go! Why would someone have this artillery?!

That little diddy isn't so bad but when they bring up the Florida firearms registry I tend to have a small conniption fit. Despite the fact Florida bans anything coming close to a state registry.

'' posted:

(2) PROHIBITIONS.--No state governmental agency or local government, special district, or other political subdivision or official, agent, or employee of such state or other governmental entity or any other person, public or private, shall knowingly and willfully keep or cause to be kept any list, record, or registry of privately owned firearms or any list, record, or registry of the owners of those firearms.

Is it really that hard to google?

Edit: Table Breaking

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

Bad - Tombstone - Curly Bill gets all hopped up on opium and takes to the streets shooting at the moon with his two pistols. I counted twenty-twoish shots without a reload and noticed when I was twelve.

God - The Sopranos - The level of fear/shock/surprise they display people having that are around unexpected gunfire is excellent.

LogisticEarth
Mar 28, 2004

Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".


DoktorVerderben posted:

MIller's Crossing is a cool movie with some decent gunplay. There is a good example of the whole concealment != cover thing, which is kind of balanced out by a scene with a bottomless Thompson magazine, even if that scene is awesome in a way.

That was the first scene that I thought of when the "concealment != cover" point was mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXTjcMnEdY#t=1m20s

The bottomless Thompson was forgivable, because the scene was obviously supposed to be way over the top.

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.



The Automator posted:

I've shot buckshot out my 870 one handed and my shoulder was fine.

Same here with a PGO Mossberg 500A. Braced at hip and squared with right arm out both work fine. Yes, I'm an idiot, but I had to try. Also: don't do this with a Mosin. Still not injurious but it is considerably more jarring. I'd imagine going completely Gentleman's Stance with it is what fucks up people's shoulders/rotator cuffs/etc.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


Roundboy posted:

beeb: size aside, isn't that *exactly* what the DIAS is, a bit of metal in the lower that sits behind the trigger, hammer, etc? As in, it only touches the hammer when the bolt carrier closes

Sure, except this didn't even come near the hammer. Think of opening up an AR, and jamming an en bloc clip in the guts, then closing it back up. That's what the fancy pants CGI animation had going on

Alain Perdrix
Dec 19, 2007

Howdy!

LogisticEarth posted:

That was the first scene that I thought of when the "concealment != cover" point was mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXTjcMnEdY#t=1m20s

The bottomless Thompson was forgivable, because the scene was obviously supposed to be way over the top.

It's been too long since I watched Miller's Crossing. That movie owns. Albert Finney getting all in his bedroom was also really cool.

Sylink
Apr 17, 2004



lifenomad posted:

Some of these pictures are hilarious, take this one:



What's he shooting at, Airplanes?

Is it bad I am tempted to find this movie in HD and read the serial number on the bolt?

You could maybe find the import mark if its real?

Farnk
Apr 7, 2003


Whole concealment thing. You see a poo poo ton of movies where a shoot out breaks out. And everyone jumps over tables, knocking them down and hiding behind them. Tables, like poo poo collapsible tables. Thats like cardboard.

Vergeh
Jan 15, 2008

Pockets!

walrusman posted:

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Castle. When they're doing the exciting stuff, they make him wait in the car... though, I wouldn't cite that show for realism.

If you're a compulsive bullet counter like me, then see Black Dynamite.

LvK
Feb 27, 2006

FIVE STARS!!


while I find some of these silly to get up in arms about (most are either laughable or there for the sake of stylization, and I refuse to put a Seagal film over an early John Woo film for the sake of professionalism in gun handling), I feel like I should throw some out there, having watched as many action movies as I have :V:

Concealment/cover:

Good: Alien Nation, I believe it was, sees someone getting killed by a slug-firing shotgun penetrating his cover.

Bad: Death Wish 3, Bronson's character spends some time gungasming out about his new Wildey Survivor's .475 Wildey Magnum cartridges, that make Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum look like a toy in comparison and are made for hunting big game bla bla bla. In his first outing with it, the gun fails to penetrate a hollow trash can being used as cover.

Concealed carry:

Bad: Miami Vice TV show, Crockett carries a small 1911 clone in his ankle holster. It is noticeably large.

Good: the Terminator, sawn-down shotgun with makeshift holding rig, hell yes.

Awesome: Desperado, the Mariachi keeps Ruger P90s up his sleeves.


Exaggerated body physics:
Now, for the record, I completely believe in exaggerated physics in movies. They are, after all, a land of special effects fantasy, and for style purposes are often more memorable when NOT realistic. That said...

Realistic Good: Surprise, surprise, Michael Mann handles gunfights believably! Who'da thunk it!?

Stylish Good: Lots of examples that get pretty ridiculous but whatever. See the works of John Woo and Robert Rodriguez for some dramatic ones that get pretty insane.

Bad: Quick and the Dead, full-on midair backflip stunt bonus headshot. It is even more ridiculous than the akimbo-1911 body catapult in Last Man Standing.

Space Jam
Jul 22, 2008



The Good: Collateral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ

Maybe a little too flashy, but the sounds are superb.

Bob Morane
Nov 12, 2008


Children of Men

The Bad:

-Guns are ridiculously quiet.
-Bottomless mags/Infrequent reloading.
-Motorcyclist chasing car effortlessly carries out pistol assassination of passenger with a single shot.
-Guns in England?

The Good:

-Coffee shop explosion in opening scene causes partial deafness and tinnitus. The effect isn't perfectly executed, but it's cool nevertheless. So is the blood spatter on the camera lens.
-Bullets and explosions penetrate light cover and cause varying degrees of destruction/injury, including plenty of debris and shrapnel.
-Generally acceptable firearms handling and movement.
-Shows poor firearms handling and trigger discipline leading to fratricide.

Revdomezehis
Jul 26, 2003
OMG a Moose!

The Bad - Just about every movie/TV show where all guns work super good all the time.

The Good - The Way of the Gun (Of course) wherein Benicio Del Toro's shotgun jams and he clears the jam before going back to firing.

Giant Isopod
Jan 30, 2010

Bathynomus giganteus

Yams Fan

Bob Morane posted:

Children of Men

The Bad:
-Guns are ridiculously quiet.

In the long drawn out warzone scene I like to think that's more of a stylistic effect used to shift focus away from the fighting. The inverse of the exaggeratedly loud baby crying. That whole scene is fairly surreal.

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Mr.Bond posted:

The Good: Collateral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ

Maybe a little too flashy, but the sounds are superb.
All things being equal, it looks like the bald guy could easily have drawn and fired, but because Cruise is taking so long he has to half rear end fumble for 3 seconds until he gets shot.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Strangely enough, Forest Gump actually portrays that fairly accurately (especially given that it was the M60 in Vietnam, which was fairly prone to jamming)..."Get that pig unfucked!"

Alaan
May 24, 2005



Throw in some more TV fun with Burn Notice

The Good:
Michael figures that when he knocks on this door the guy will be standing off the the side so shoots at him through the lovely wall.

The Bad: He's holding a a guy at gunpoint for about 30 seconds, then gets mad and racks the slide. No bullet pops out, so the whole time he was threatening with an unfirable gun!

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Revdomezehis posted:

The Bad - Just about every movie/TV show where all guns work super good all the time.

The Good - The Way of the Gun (Of course) wherein Benicio Del Toro's shotgun jams and he clears the jam before going back to firing.

A decent, well maintained gun doesn't really jam very often.

sky shark posted:

All things being equal, it looks like the bald guy could easily have drawn and fired, but because Cruise is taking so long he has to half rear end fumble for 3 seconds until he gets shot.

Drawing down on two dudes ready to fight is usually going to be a losing proposition. It would have been a lame movie, though, if Vincent got his dome popped in an alleyway by a couple pieces of poo poo. More realistic, but lame.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


Alaan posted:

Throw in some more TV fun with Burn Notice

The Good:
Michael figures that when he knocks on this door the guy will be standing off the the side so shoots at him through the lovely wall.

The Bad: He's holding a a guy at gunpoint for about 30 seconds, then gets mad and racks the slide. No bullet pops out, so the whole time he was threatening with an unfirable gun!

People bitch about this and about Michael telling people the SUPER HUMAN KILLING POWERS of various guns, but it all makes perfect sense for him to do it that way.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



walrusman posted:

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Like a lot of the "good gun" movies, Se7en gets another mention here. When they find the apartment with the Sloth victim inside Mills and Somerset get in position to enter with pistols ready, but the SWAT commander pushes Mills aside and says "SWAT before dicks" (meaning detectives, not jerks, by the way).

BaronW
Apr 16, 2007

Why yes, I HAVE seen uhaul.jpg

Military vs Monsters
BAD: Most movies, a recently-on-TV example that comes to mind is Godzilla. The standard Hollywood scenario when the military takes on a Big loving Monster is to have a few dozen guys create a line with sandbags and barbed wire and then stand around with M16 with a few tanks in the background. As the monster approaches, they ineffectually pepper it with small arms fire and end up getting their asses kicked.

GOOD: Transformers. When they fight the scorpion thing, the army dudes quickly realize small arms fire is ineffective and call in an AC-130

Aiming vs Spraying from the hip
BAD: The Running Man, and probably every other action movie from the 80's. Arnold only knows how to hold a gun one way: like a super soaker. He is able to score perfect hits 100% of the time by firing from the hip.

GOOD: Zombieland. Willie Nelson teaches the little girl how to shoot her pump-action rifle by actually looking down the sights.

FAILS AT BOTH: Starship Troopers. The big fuckoff goofy rifles they carry don't even have sights, and they continually use infantry to do things that call for air/armor feed the bugs.

Akimbo weapons
GOOD: Equilibrium. If you're going to be silly and unrealistic, don't half-rear end it.

BAD: Every movie with akimbo weapons, ever. Particularly bad: one of the Charlie's Angels movies was on TV at a friend's place and I saw some 120lb hollywood tartlet dual-wielding gold .50ae handguns.

BaronW fucked around with this message at 09:37 on May 18, 2010

The Casualty
Sep 29, 2006
Security Clearance: Pop Secret


Whiny baby

BaronW posted:

Military vs Monsters
BAD: Most movies, a recently-on-TV example that comes to mind is Godzilla. The standard Hollywood scenario when the military takes on a Big loving Monster is to have a few dozen guys create a line with sandbags and barbed wire and then stand around with M16 with a few tanks in the background. As the monster approaches, they ineffectually pepper it with small arms fire and end up getting their asses kicked.
On that note, another ridiculously bad scene is in The Day The Earth Stood Still, when "Whiskey Task Force", which is at least a couple armored brigades and an infantry batallion, are all bunched up in a huge fuckoff formation like they're a Napoleonic army. I'm talkin Infantry in the front ranks, backed by Humvees and tanks, all firing cannons, with MLRS batteries like 40 feet behind them unloading rockets. And of course, they get completely annihilated in like 10 seconds because they're all conveniently bunched up when the nanomachine swarm hits them. No I'm not spoilering this because it's a terrible loving movie, and you should never bother watching it.

Anyways, my contributions are:
THE BAD:
Hard Boiled: I can't help but love this movie because of how ridiculous it is, but the hospital shootout at the end of the movie is completely awful from a gunplay standpoint. Shotguns that both propel people 10 feet backwards and yank people 5 feet forwards through glass and walls. Glass which ultra-convenient for diving through/ rolling around on without risk of injury. Shotgun blasts make everything explode. Good guys crossing each other unnecessarily, sometimes while still firing. Hitting a dude in the chest with a 40mm grenade and having sparks shoot out the back of him (ok that was awesome). SWAT members dressed like Ninjas. It's a dirty pleasure to watch

THE GOOD:
Pretty much everything in Generation kill. I know it isn't technically a movie but the realism was excellent. Proper discipline, lots of reloading, guns jamming (especially the Mk. 19), and the effects of being hit with bullets were well done. Just about the only thing that bugs me is when Sgt. Colbert uses an M203 round to basically overturn a car, exposing an insurgent to his gunfire. I wouldn't think a rifle grenade would have that sort of explosive power, but on top of that the insurgent seems completely unharmed until Colbert follows up with well-aimed rifle fire. My only gripe in the entire series.

Chrieger
Sep 24, 2006

It is got toothpick!

The Casualty posted:

but on top of that the insurgent seems completely unharmed until Colbert follows up with well-aimed rifle fire. My only gripe in the entire series.
Was that even the same guy? I recall one guy getting hit by the explosion and Colbert shooting a similarly dressed guy next to the first guy. Could be wrong though.

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

This is the shootout that everyone has been talking about from The Way of the Gun I hadn't seen this movie in forever, and didn't like it much then, but this is pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o0Co4kbRZo

Some great stuff here. Concealment isn't cover, gunshots actually hurt, and even a press check at one point.

On the other hand, Phillipe pulls out the shard of glass (bad idea, of course) and James Caan seems unwilling to move from the very window that they know he's in. Still, an awesome scene.

Mr. 47 fucked around with this message at 13:24 on May 18, 2010

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Thepossiblelight
Jul 2, 2007
shut up.

welp now i'm going to FILES narc, and watch it at work tonight

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