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Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Room Clearing:

BAD: Every television police drama ever. I hate being general but there are just so many cop shows that get this so wrong when logic would dictate that the elite SWAT team/veteran detectives/whatever would have some semblance of training in this manner. They will just parade through a house lazily with what can only be described as tunnel vision, handgun carried one handed, finger always on the trigger.

GOOD: Thief. For the small amount of actual shooting in Michael Mann's first movie there is an awful lot of training evident in how James Caan meticulously clears each and every room of the house in the end of the film. Two handed exaggerated Weaver, constantly checking his sides, "pieing the corner", it's all there and it's pretty awesome. The Way of the Gun is also pretty notable for its use of proper team-based room clearing on the part of Parker and Longbaugh. Muzzle down for crossing each other, shoulder presses for room confirmation, etc.

1911 Hammers:

BAD: There are a lot of perpetrators, but a couple come to mind. The Untouchables has Kevin Costner sneaking up on someone he thinks is a mobster. He carries his 1911 (Star Model B, really) with the hammer down and his thumb resting on it just so he can cock it dramatically when he confronts the man. One of the antagonists in Saw also holds a woman at gunpoint for nearly the entire movie with the hammer of his 1911 down.

GOOD: Again, Thief, as well as Heat, Se7en, The Way of the Gun, and most Steven Seagal movies portray 1911s being carried Condition 1 and usually give them an accurate amount of ammunition between reloads, as well (not the Seagal movies, though).

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Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Vergeh posted:

The Good
- Seven, where Brad Pitt mistakenly shoots another officer in the leg. As a result, the cop dies en route to the hospital. Too often in movies, people shrug off extremity wounds (especially leg shots), and are able to tie a bit of cloth over it and carry on using the limb as normal.

When did this happen in the movie? I recall him talking about a previous assignment where he went in on a raid behind the SWAT team and saw a SWAT guy get "spun like a top" from a shotgun blast, but I don't remember him actually shooting a cop.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



walrusman posted:

I can't think of a show that's not depicted its main characters always doing the room-clearing, actually, so I don't have a positive counterpoint on that one.

Like a lot of the "good gun" movies, Se7en gets another mention here. When they find the apartment with the Sloth victim inside Mills and Somerset get in position to enter with pistols ready, but the SWAT commander pushes Mills aside and says "SWAT before dicks" (meaning detectives, not jerks, by the way).

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Young Freud posted:

Panic Room stuff

Not to be a dick or anything, but you really could have either worded that differently, or spoiler tagged it like you did with The Art of War. Both movies are around the same age, so I'm kind of confused why you'd do one but not the other.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



mlmp08 posted:

I was thinking about how so many movies and the show Lost in particular are guilty of having guns make weird clicking/racking/chambering noises every time they are swung around dramatically or aimed at someone and how that same principle applies to cars in so many shows or movie.

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but Hot Fuzz parodied this very well in the scene leading up to the grocery store shootout. When the cops were running up to the store there was an immense amount of shotgun pumping and handgun racking, which continues very loudly over the dialogue once they get to the store and start explaining the plan as well as once they actually go in.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Alain Perdrix posted:

I thought that the idea was that the good guys weren't going to kill anyone. They were going to use their guns in a manner slightly more offensive than that of the A-Team (i.e., shooting to [somehow] wound).

I was disappointed the first time I watched the movie that so few (if any) baddies died, but it really made sense once the gunfight was over and the police had to charge every citizen of the town. It really solidified the "by-the-book good cop" mentality that Simon Pegg's character exhibited.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



GOOD: Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man - I guess I've been watching a lot of cheesy action movies recently, but there were a few things that actually surprised me in this. They have a lot of dialogue about firearms that I found gave a neat texture to the movie.

".44 Mag D***** E*****. Eight in the [mag], one in the pipe. That's nice, man."
---
"This is a Ruger Super Blackhawk, .454 conversion...It's what a learned with."
"Nobody learns with a converted .454."
"I did."
"That explains it [Harley's terrible flinching and handgun inaccuracy]."
---
"You know that gun (Blackhawk .454) costs about two bucks every time you fire it. That's two bucks a bullet."
"Well how many did I hit?"
"You spent twelve bucks and didn't hit a Goddamn thing. I nailed one and it cost about four and a quarter."

There was also a surprising focus on correct round count regarding the Ruger and D***** E****. As far as I could tell there was never a time when more than eight or nine rounds were expended before a mag change, and never more than six shots from the Ruger before a long reload required for a single action revolver.

BAD: Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man - Everything else, from being only bruised from a .454 to the shoulder to thin leather jackets disguised as super armor and accurate one-handed pistol shots from 50 yards.

infrared35 posted:

Bad: in Sneakers...Also, the ubiquitous racking a shotgun and about to fire a shot... and then when confronted with a threat, menacingly racking the shotgun AGAIN.

Replacement Killers - a USP .40 blowing a person off his feet.

In reference to the shotgun thing, I watched the phenomenally '80s-heavy Cobra last night and my God was there ever a lot of this in the beginning scene in the supermarket. I think it's pretty obvious that this wasn't supposed to be anything even approaching serious, but I'm pretty sure the bad guy pumps his sawed off 870 at least three dozen times. I noticed at least three or four times where he would pump the shotgun more than twice between shots.

In reference to The Replacement Killers, it's not supposed to be a serious movie, it supposed to be stylized and therefore gets away with it. I think Antoine Fuqua was just trying to make a John Woo movie, especially since it had Chow Yun-Fat in it.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Cyrano4747 posted:

Uh, this isn't all THAT bad.

There's a picture of the scene on IMFDB. He's standing on top of the wing of a junked airplane, FYI. He also hits the guy in the head, although he does take a few shots to do it. I suppose there are worse examples in the movie, like when he hip fires while standing on top of an armored truck and shoots the gun out of a security guard's hands.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Railoc posted:

Also, every bad guy in the universe is wielding one of the 2 G36Cs the BBC prop department owns. No other rifles exist.

Apparently Torchwood (a spinoff of the rebooted Dr. Who) had a similar prop problem. They only had (have) three airsoft pistols to use for the show so A.) they are the only guns you see, and B.) you never see more than three at a time.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



eine dose socken posted:

Also, why are some rubber guns so crummy- aren't they supposed to look like the real thing? There's a rubber Beretta 92 that crops up every so often in Justified, and it has the muzzle 1,5 cm lower than where it should be. detectives.

A lot of times those are flash paper guns, not rubber stunt guns. They're used when a scene calls for a close range shot that may be too close to safely pull off without injuring an actor. I don't know why the look so poorly put together, though. You're right about Justified, too. The second or third episode had a guy standing in his backyard about 10 yards away from his kidnapping partner. They're practicing quick draws and the first guy shoots the second to cover his tracks, but he's using the same flash paper "Sig P226" from the first episode even though he's far away and he's the only one in the shot. It's cheap and it ruins scenes.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



eine dose socken posted:

Well yeah, because if every TV series used the plots that come out in real life (or on unscripted shows like The First 48), then 90% of all episodes would have the same three story lines...

What about just not having any strong leads to follow and leaving the case unsolved for decades?

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



iyaayas01 posted:

Of course, this is coming from a movie that features not only a scene where a car jumps off a ramp and pulls a bomb off its undercarriage with a dangling crane hook, but where both the protagonist and antagonist survive an uncontrolled high speed crash into the ocean, in a business jet.

Also, a 4700 pound Audi with about 50 yards of driving space on the top level of a parking garage can plow through a reinforced concrete barrier and make it across the street to an under-construction building.

I remember watching Transporter 3 and thinking about the fact that as ridiculous as it was it still was more planted in reality than Transporter 2.

All that said, I'm pretty sure when Lola was shooting the door in the doctor's office she was shooting from down the hall on the same side so the bullets were hitting at around a 15 or 20 degree angle, which might cause more of a grazing or ricocheting action.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



infrared35 posted:

Same thing happened to that fuckslut in the first season of 24. When will bitches learn?

Yes, but in season 2 her slutty ways eventually taught her the valuable lesson that "crazy" survivalists are really actually pretty nice and will give you a free gun with which to protect yourself. I applaud Fox for that valuable life lesson, and in all reality for showing that someone who prepares for disasters is not necessarily a creepy rapist/murderer.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



HappyCapybaraFamily posted:

Bad: He also secretly dropped a live round into the chamber through the ejection port so he could trick a guy into a false sense of security.

Doing that would almost certainly cause a slam-fire once he releases the slide catch, right? I know nothing about guns.

Not that I am aware of. Doing this is bad for the extractor as it has to force itself around the rim of the bullet casing, but it's not as if it's dangerous or anything, at least beyond a mechanical wear point of view. The slide (and therefore the striker within it) wouldn't somehow be engaged outward in a firing position if the round was dropped in instead of fed properly through a magazine. And since slam fires don't occur when rounds are properly fed through magazines there's no reason they would happen without actual manipulation of the firing pin/striker.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Alastor_the_Stylish posted:

Looks like it bounced off his hand and flew straight down.

Yeah, at first I thought it might be some "in-dream policy" where you can't leave new stuff behind or something crazy like that (so you'd have to collect brass). But you're right, it looks like he's just deflecting it down with his hand.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Inspector_71 posted:

The most recurring motif of my dreams is me trying to defend myself with a gun but it turns out to be Airsoft or something and never works.

Continuing the massive derailment, mine are like this, but it's always A.) I cannot successfully pull the trigger no matter how hard I try (as if the trigger pull was 200 pounds), or B.) it's a 1911-style trigger and the trigger is so short it's practically inside the frame and I can't actuate it.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Capn Beeb posted:

Also,



cop

kill

ahhhhh

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

What the hell is this from? That looks like a video game, but games using actual names of ammunition manufacturers are even rarer that games than use actual gun names.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



iyaayas01 posted:

Road to Perdition-

Bad: Dramatic cocking of hammer on 1911s.

Also, when Tom Hanks executes you know who in the bathtub we see a closeup of him pointing and "shooting" the gun, but the slide does not move on his 1911 and no casings are ejected. I imagine this was a safety concern for how close he put the gun to the proximity of the actor and they therefore used a flashpaper gun or the flashes were just added in post production.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



bulletsponge13 posted:

I thought they were .500 S&W- which made it more ridiculous

IMFDB says they are .460, which are still pretty ridiculous.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



CombatBonta-kun posted:

The first episode of The Walking Dead is floating around the internet. As promising as it looks, within the first 11 minutes one of the deputies is told he needs to make sure he has a round in the chamber and his safety off. He flicks his thumb and there is an audible click sound, only problem is that he is using a Glock

I give it a lot of credit for other stuff, though. Getting shot while wearing body armor is pretty realistically portrayed as still very painful and capable of knocking you on your rear end. Also, when the main character fires his revolver in a very enclosed space he goes deaf for a bit and becomes very disoriented.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Atticus_1354 posted:

Edit* Never mind that isn't in the book.

I don't really have high hopes for this series anyways.

I'm still iffy about the actor for the lead character, but having a whole series (instead of two hours) to flesh out a situation like this gives me hope at the possibilities. I also appreciate that the gore is pretty graphic for a network TV show. I know the content stranglehold on AMC and FX has been loosening for a while, but it's still nice to see.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



The Automator posted:

[Regarding lack of holsters] This is actually pretty realistic

I like that The Way of the Gun includes the neat little detail that both of the characters had IWB holsters for their 1911s. It's really amazing how rare that actually is in movies, but at the same time I wouldn't be at all surprised if, like you said, it mimicked real life criminals' behavior of carrying guns.

I'm kind of surprised Mann had McCauley carrying Mexican in Heat. Frank didn't use a holster for his Colt Commander in Thief, either, but I'll forgive the lack of IWB holster for his six inch 1911 used at the end of the movie.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Scratch Monkey posted:

It's almost as if criminality is linked to things like poverty and disenfranchisement and not race and religion!

Definitely true, but due to the commonality of self-segregation (or forced) throughout history trends do tend to pop up from time to time, isolated though they may be.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



A lot of John Woo's American movies are really guilty pleasures of mine. The best you can say he did stateside is Face/Off, which was really only acceptable and nowhere near great even at its best. His two before that, Hard Target and Broken Arrow, are pretty cheesy, but hold a simpleton charm for me. They seemed to know their places and fit well within them, not trying to do more than they could, for lack of a better phrasing.

Mission Impossible 2 and Windtalkers both were apparently cut way down from Woo's original length and as much as I disliked both of them I still reserve judgment until I see the full cuts. Paycheck gets no quarter.

Why did you have to back out of Red Cliff, Chow Yun-Fat?

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



priznat posted:

But what if you want your entertainment to have sex and violence??

Well, there was that scene in Shoot 'Em Up where Clive Owen was boning Monica Bellucci while shooting all the guys trying to break into the room.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



priznat posted:

Strangely I didn't like that movie. I know, I don't understand it either.

Yeah, I feel the same way, honestly. It wasn't terrible, but there was just something about it that made it a little hard to watch. Still, it had its moments.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Illegal Clown posted:

You're right about the characters being hard to like, or connect with. I feel like the ones I know best are the jerks and so I don't care what happens to them. And since you haven't seen it, the last episode features the zombies getting into the camp and killing most of the group. The people were divided, with some in fighting, plus they became complacent about security, thinking they were safe. Again, it's about their failures getting themselves killed.

I want to say that the characterization in the show is really it's failing, but there wasn't a whole lot to go on in the comics, either. The comics are pretty fast paced when it comes to story telling, which was a slight weakness in the comics but something that really could have helped the show had it kept up, given the fairly poor job they've done at making the characters likable or at least relatable. Instead we get all this evolution and expansion of characters that goes in the completely wrong direction and really hamfists way too many messages at the audience (like the completely over the top stereotypical angry redneck beating his wife in front of everyone and the white knight cop coming to save her).

Although I think the biggest problem with characterization in the show versus the comics is that apparently the apocalypse really follows the rules of affirmative action. We see just about every single facet of humanity somehow crammed into this living condition as an obvious attempt to appeal to a broader audience while it results in all of them being so horribly written. Seriously, T-Dog has to be the most obtusely written character on television and I can only imagine that unless the actor is just really excited to be on TV that he has to feel uncomfortable reading his lines. It's like the took the parody black character Jamaica St. Croix from Son of the Beach and just pretended it was a real attempt at dramatic realism.

Phew, venting aside, I really hope that Daryl will start using his zombie killing crossbow bolts to infect people from afar. I'm amazed it didn't become a sideplot in the last episode where he shoots one of the thugs in the rear end with a bolt. Considering how the show conveniently avoids the infection process when necessary for the plot, like Andrea covering herself in her sister's blood after she was bitten, I doubt the infected Vatos thing will become a return storyline).

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



LimburgLimbo posted:

It's not firearms related, but, another thing which I noticed once and couldn't stop seeing; pretty much everyone with boots has modern rubber-soled boots. There are places where there are pretty close shots of their feet, and you can see it really clearly.

Kinda similar to something I noticed in the trailer for the WWII film Winter in Wartime, where a boy is handling the Hi-Power belonging to (presumably) a resistance fighter and I would swear it has Pachmayr rubber grips on it.


Click here for the full 1274x545 image.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



gauss posted:

Finally got a hold of Michael Mann's Thief (1981), enjoying it so far. Already Mann is as obsessed with gun stuff in his debut as he would be later so I had to stop and upload a still.

Here is James Caan doing a chamber check as Jim Belushi makes a dumb face. Astute observers will note that Caan employs virtually the same suspect near-muzzle press that Pacino would use later in HEAT--guess this is just Mann's preferred method?

This movie really needs more love, most of all from the owner of the film and preferably in the form of a blu-ray release (or at least an anamorphic-loving-transfer). There's not very much gunplay involved, but what's there and the gun handling in general is just wonderfully displayed. I've said so before in another movie thread, but the three or four minutes of James Caan clearing the house in the end is just amazingly cool and professionally executed. His six inch 1911 Jim Hoag custom is maybe my favorite 1911 of all time.

Also, I don't care what anyone says. I check the chamber by pressing below the muzzle (on guns that don't have full length guide rails or dust covers) because that's what I like best. I don't put anything inside the trigger guard, though.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Fat Ogre posted:

Ok that is retarded. Especially when Michael Mann is usually so good about guns.

I haven't seen the scene he's talking about, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were two or three shots made off camera (Tubbs shoots gun, camera cuts to person ducking behind something, shots continue to be heard off screen) rather than actually showing him fire five shots and then pop around a corner and blast twice more. If that's the case someone may have just gotten overzealous in their action scene editing.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Ace Oliveira posted:

Wasn't his armor paintball armor, too? There was also some stupid plot twist that he was doing that as a distraction for a bank robbery or some stupid poo poo. It didn't really make any sense.

Not sure about the armor, but the whole thing was a cover for a bank robbery. His douchey friend was making these online video blogs about some anti-capitalist sentiments and he used that to frame him. He burned up all his fake money outside the bank to keep them from looking for the actual money he stole and ended up killing his friend in the woods to make it look like a suicide after some kind of communism-fueled crusade/freakout.

I actually really liked Rampage. Most of it was on a 12-year-old level, but it was neat seeing how some of the oddball planning maneuvers he did earlier in the movie came to fruition later on.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Detective Thompson posted:

Did any brass come out when he fired? May have just been a failure to cycle the action because of blanks.

No brass came out when he cycled the action, but when Ben Affleck's character reloads his SA58 he ejects a round out of the action for no reason after changing mags.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Inspector_71 posted:

Johnny Bench called, he wants his inside jokes back.

It wasn't a conversation Lana, I was just talking to my gun, not with it. Pretty big difference.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



priznat posted:

BONE THE TUNA

BONE FOR TUNA

Also, regarding Gyp Rosetti and his sociopathic behavior, here's a copy-paste of an article from the Boardwalk Empire thread in TV IV:

quote:

Slate: Speaking of which, in Season 3, you introduce a fabulous but terrifying character, Gyp Rosetti, who is definitely a psychopath. Was there really a Gyp Rosetti?

Winter: No, he’s completely fictional. Gyp represents a new breed of gangster. Things got progressively more competitive and more violent as the 1920s progressed. When Prohibition was first enacted in 1920, most people stockpiled alcohol, thinking they’d have enough to last them for years. By 1923, that was starting to run out, so your average person started to rely more and more on criminals. Hence the profits in the alcohol game went up, and the competition and the violence increased as well. You had people like Gyp Rosetti, who were essentially low-level criminals starting to work their way into the game.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

If I had to guess, Nucky probably wouldn't have a problem with him if Nucky had more muscle. He knows that Nucky can't really do a lot to stop him right now.

It seems that's the way things are headed. In the next episode preview as well as one of the season trailers we see Nucky asking Rothstein to "go to war" since he doesn't have the manpower to do so himself (especially after the end of this last episode).

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Thaddius the Large posted:

On Deadly Ground

FTFY

priznat posted:

SHEEEEIT that fake paperboy.. aw not the real one dammit also

I thoroughly disbelieve that skinny-rear end waitress could soak up several .45 bullets and Rosetti could remain unharmed. Although the fact that he instantly went into human-shield mode with her was pretty amusing.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Internet Wizard posted:

Serious question: when does The Wire start being the show that everybody is always rubbing themselves raw over?

I'm 4 episodes in and so far it's just high-grade cop drama levels.

Honestly, it's not like Mad Men where it normally takes the entire first season to get into the show; most people start out liking it a lot or dismissing it by the end of the first episode. It evolves in its scope from season to season (focusing on a different aspect of the drug trade in Baltimore each season), and seasons three and four are generally considered the best, but the dialogue and feel stay pretty consistent throughout the entire run.

I guess in its defense there are a lot of characters and a lot more are added as the show goes on, so you may need a few more episodes for everything to set, but the characters are definitely the greatest thing about The Wire and just watching them live and move through their worlds with the detail and attention given is engrossing and makes for some truly phenomenal television.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Not Nipsy Russell posted:

Beat Takeshi's turn as Zatoichi - CGI blood distracting, or "arty"?

Artistic. If it's the intention of the filmmaker to have the blood effects look that way and wasn't just the fault of cheap CGI/incompetent artists then I can't really mind too much. Valhalla Rising was pretty similar :

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Thief posted:

That movie is gorgeous.

Glad to see that someone here has the taste to realize that film's genius.

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Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



LGD posted:

So I know I'm pretty drat late to this party (like 2 years) but holy poo poo was The American bad.

I just saw this movie a few weeks ago after avoiding it upon its release. I knew the trailers were overblowing the action levels, but I heard there were lots of titties and got the impression Clooney was playing a James Bond type international playboy and lost interest. When I finally got around to watching it I was really pleased that this wasn't the case and that it actually was incredibly cold and lonely. A lot of people compared it to spy movies from the 1970s (e.g. The Killer Elite original version) and they're right. I love the sense of texture and detail that that style of movie features.

I loved seeing this portrayal of a man like Jack, not as some suave globe trotting man of action, but a lonely, tired aging man who can't be with anyone because of his profession and the dangers that it entails (look what happens at the beginning). Similar to Ryan Gosling in Drive his craft is his only characterization, his only driving force for going on because he has chosen that craftsmanship to define him for so long. He could have had some child he was trying to reunite with or a dream of retirement that he was working towards, but instead his character was brilliantly written to be a burnout instead. "One Last Job" characters and stories are a dime a dozen and I really appreciate that someone decided to tell a story about what happens to the "other guys" in the criminal world and to tell it without serious character contrivances (the ending notwithstanding, which seemed mostly out of desperation anyway). Jack wasn't some Ghost Dog/Leon/honorable thief living holier than the criminals around him (again, the movie's opening), he was just a guy absorbed in his trade without a way to get out and progressing toward a predicable end.

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