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OK 300 ages in. I think that puts me at Sansa 2. Already I'm dreading reading the female POV. GRRM sucks at prose, but he sucks more at writing female character. Anyway, that said, he writes a decent paced story, even though pretty much nothing has happenned. I'm assuming that something does happen in the end. I hope so. I'm not sure I can take much more of Ned being stupid (Two chapters of "Brothels are for secrets" followed by Ned wondering why the deadHand went to meet the King's Bro at a brothel ...). Liking Jon, Tyrion is all kinds of awesome. Oh the Dany story looks like it could be interesting: Dragon eggs, not the crappy stereotypical fantasy sex fantasy.
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May 31, 2010 15:55
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A bit late to the party, but checking in to say AGOT is a pretty fun book. I started reading it for the first time in mid-December (after hearing repeatedly over the years how good it was, and having just finished Dragon Age on Xbox), plowed through the first couple hundred pages, then put it down for nearly four months "for school" (in actuality, Mass Effect 2 and a bit of school on the side  ) Quick thoughts: Opposite of a lot of other posters in here, the prologue actually drew me in with its reveal of the Others. It could be just because I don't read a lot of fantasy in general (more into sci-fi), but I was intrigued by their mystery and danger, then when the book went straight into its slow-burn with the opening at Winterfell I nearly put it down. Cue the 'force read the first 80 pages' line, except I don't know what page it was since I'm on Kindle.  The constant introduction of new characters, houses and locations was overwhelming. I think putting it down a few months actually helped in that regard, as once I came back I'd had time to process the broader world of the story.Sansa's chapters (middle/ending spoilers) had me wanting to beat my head against the desk nearly every time. She's so goddamned naive, no matter how blindingly obvious it is to EVERYONE that the Lannisters are up to no good. Even after they loving imprison Ned she's still in blissful denial over ~MY JOFFREY~. At least her direwolf was killed. Dany's story (again, ending spoilers) also had me prone to beating my head against the desk, but unlike Sansa it redeemed itself rather nicely with the relatively early demise of Viserys and the unexpected conclusion with zombie Khal Drogo and the dragon eggs. I was originally planning on putting off ACOK until sometime in the fall, but instead I think I'll go ahead and get a head-start on the thread.  Bring on the insanity...
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May 31, 2010 21:16
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I just saw the ad for this thread, so I hopped on over. Amazing that I got these books for christmas and never read them. I'm 2 weeks late, but I'll catch up soon enough. e:Stupid twat reporting in - that was just showing which chapters comprised each week. Richard M Nixon fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jun 1, 2010 |
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Jun 1, 2010 03:05
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To the people saying that the AGOT has some boring parts, keep reading. AGOT is the most boring book in the series, as it has to build up to the next three book's events. It really is worth it until you realize there is no ending oh goddd
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Jun 1, 2010 06:41
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Feast for Crows is the most boring, sorry.
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Jun 1, 2010 07:10
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Jon 7. Finally, finally something interesting happenned. Ned is the most incredibly dumb character. The trouble is neither Ned or Sansa are in any way believable. Surely noone could be that stupid? The guy sends away all his troops and then refuses the only reliable offer of support he has? Girl is so naive that she runs off to the sworn enemy of the family and kicks off the "poo poo that hits the fan"? Catelyn causes all kinds of "fan making GBS threads" by taking the son of the most powerful guy in the land on the basis of unsubstantiated circumstantial evidence? Urgh, this is a fun read, but I'm perplexed: the good guys are too dumb to root for.
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Jun 1, 2010 08:50
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Haha, my gf saw the banner ad and after the initial shock was like: Glistened wetly? What kind of redundant writing is that? How else does something glisten?
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Jun 1, 2010 10:15
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I would use glisten to describe something covered in ice or snow, and while made of water, I wouldn't necessarily call it wet.
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Jun 1, 2010 10:52
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Lots of things sparkle or shine without being wet hth.
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Jun 1, 2010 12:59
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Hasn't your girlfriend ever read Twilight?
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Jun 1, 2010 13:21
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Lots of things sparkle or shine without being wet hth. Manhoods don't.  Well, mine doesn't anyway
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Jun 1, 2010 13:23
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Manhoods don't.  http://tantusinc.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TD&Product_Code=VAMP&Category_Code=DI
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Jun 1, 2010 14:22
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Haraksha posted:
Some amazing user reviews there.
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Jun 1, 2010 15:37
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knees of putty posted:Jon 7. Finally, finally something interesting happenned. Ned is the most incredibly dumb character. The trouble is neither Ned or Sansa are in any way believable. Surely noone could be that stupid? The guy sends away all his troops and then refuses the only reliable offer of support he has? Girl is so naive that she runs off to the sworn enemy of the family and kicks off the "poo poo that hits the fan"? Catelyn causes all kinds of "fan making GBS threads" by taking the son of the most powerful guy in the land on the basis of unsubstantiated circumstantial evidence? Urgh, this is a fun read, but I'm perplexed: the good guys are too dumb to root for. Re: Ned - Much is made of Ned's honor, and that especially goes for the whole killing of children thing. Ned remembers the smashed and murdered children of Rhaegar and Elia being presented to Robert. Ned has seen Robert's drive to have Daenerys and her child assassinated. Ned has other fears that have weighed him down, and he cannot abide having this done to more children as a result of Robert's rage. Re: Sansa - Yeah, you kind of want to throttle Sansa after that. But she is naive and dumb. She also doesn't understand that the Queen isn't a good lady, and that Joffrey is really a poo poo. She thinks the problem exists solely with Jaime, who attacked her father. In her ignorance, she thinks she can stay with her beloved prince if only the Queen would intervene. Well, she got her wish!
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Jun 1, 2010 16:06
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Zombie Lincoln posted:Re: Sansa - Yeah, you kind of want to throttle Sansa after that. But she is naive and dumb. She also doesn't understand that the Queen isn't a good lady, and that Joffrey is really a poo poo. She thinks the problem exists solely with Jaime, who attacked her father. In her ignorance, she thinks she can stay with her beloved prince if only the Queen would intervene. Well, she got her wish! Not to mention that Sansa is the POV that is the slowest to evolve: it takes until her final few chapters (in the series so far, not in this book) before she shows any form of character development.
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Jun 1, 2010 16:31
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 Week 2 Recap! I figured I'd give the Tower of the Hand short description of the chapters due for Week 2 to kick start schedule appropriate discussion, with a few comments. Ned 2: En route to King's Landing, Eddard and Robert discuss Jon Snow's mother, Daenerys's wedding, and the appointment of Jaime Lannister as Warden of the East in place of Jon Arryn's son, Robert.
 Tyrion 2: En route to the Wall, Tyrion convinces Jon that life in the Night's Watch will be difficult.
Catelyn 3: Catelyn survives an attack by an unknown assailant looking to kill Bran; she decides to take the assassin's dagger to King's Landing to learn who sent the would-be killer.
Sansa 1: Joffrey takes Sansa out riding, where they encounter Arya playing at swords with a boy; a drunk Joffrey challenges the boy, but is attacked by Arya and his arm is mangled by Arya's direwolf Nymeria.
Ned 3: Arya is brought before the king; Cersei demands that Arya and her wolf be punished for hurting the prince, but Nymeria has run off so the queen settles for Sansa's direwolf, Lady, instead; Eddard kills Lady himself.
Bran 3: After several cryptic dreams, Bran finally wakes from his coma; he names his direwolf Summer.
Catelyn 4: Catelyn arrives in King's Landing and secretly meets with Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish; Petyr reveals that the assassin's dagger belonged to Tyrion Lannister.
Jon 3: Jon begins his training at Castle Black; Benjen Stark has gone missing on a ranging beyond the Wall.
Ned 4: Eddard arrives in King's Landing and is shocked to learn that the king wants a tournament held in his honor; Littlefinger takes Eddard to see Catelyn.
Tyrion 3: On his last night with the Night's Watch, Tyrion promises Lord Commander Mormont that he will inform his father about the condition of the Wall and he promises Jon Snow to help Bran as he helped Jon.
 Arya 2: Eddard comforts Arya over the death of her friend, the death of Sansa's direwolf, and the abandonment of her own wolf; a resolved Arya begins her first sword lesson with Syrio Forel.
And... here we are. Week 3 schedule now unspoilered. Talk about anything up through this point free of spoiler tags! Next Week: Week 3 Dany 3 Bran 4 Ned 5 Jon 4 Ned 6 Catelyn 5 Sansa 2 Ned 7 Tyrion 4 Previous: Week 1, Monday 24 May Zombie Lincoln fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 14, 2010 |
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Jun 1, 2010 18:38
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Huh, I misunderstood and thought we were reading the week 2 stuff now. Guess I have some catching up to do.
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Jun 1, 2010 19:11
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Conduit for Sale! posted:Huh, I misunderstood and thought we were reading the week 2 stuff now. Guess I have some catching up to do. Same here. I need to step up my game.
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Jun 1, 2010 21:10
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Yeah the OP should be updated/clarified. I'm on week 2 right now.
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Jun 1, 2010 21:34
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It's entirely possible that I'm the one confused. I didn't come up with the time-line (was edited in to my post), and I was assuming those dates were the "due dates". Viconia, are they supposed to be the start dates, or due dates?
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Jun 1, 2010 21:44
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Re-reading and all I see now is how stupid most of the main characters are in the beginning. Ned/Honorable, Catelyn/Stupid Bitch, Sansa/Annoying Bitch, Jon/Arrogant oval office, Robb/Arrogant oval office. But really they just do most everything wrong. And how awesome Jamie and the Hound are. Best characters in the series.
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Jun 1, 2010 21:48
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drlnz posted:Re-reading and all I see now is how stupid most of the main characters are in the beginning. Ned/Honorable, Catelyn/Stupid Bitch, Sansa/Annoying Bitch, Jon/Arrogant oval office, Robb/Arrogant oval office. But really they just do most everything wrong. And how awesome Jamie and the Hound are. Best characters in the series. I think the reason I'm a fan of more of the villains is they aren't faceless bad guys doing bad things for the sake of it. They have real motivations and reasons for why they act like they do. It's refreshing.
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Jun 1, 2010 21:58
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knees of putty posted:The trouble is neither Ned or Sansa are in any way believable. Surely noone could be that stupid? The guy sends away all his troops and then refuses the only reliable offer of support he has? Girl is so naive that she runs off to the sworn enemy of the family and kicks off the "poo poo that hits the fan"? Catelyn causes all kinds of "fan making GBS threads" by taking the son of the most powerful guy in the land on the basis of unsubstantiated circumstantial evidence? Urgh, this is a fun read, but I'm perplexed: the good guys are too dumb to root for. I think the point of those two characters is to show the inherent flaws in the Westerosi gender roles. Ned is the spitting image of the archetypal noble commander, and Sansa is the perfect little princess. Both characters are SUPPOSED to be stuck in their backwards, self-destructive ways because it makes the coming crucible all the more interesting. Whoever described Jon Snow as a perfect hero archetype with no business in this story is pretty close to what I'm saying. Ned and Sansa are fascinating because of the blinders they're wearing, and the fact that they're self-imposed to boot. Watching them take them off, or fail to, is the whole point. Besides, every character can't be as self-aware as Tyrion. Sometimes you need characters who learn really hard lessons.
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Jun 1, 2010 22:45
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drlnz posted:And how awesome Jamie and the Hound are. Best characters in the series. The last one in particular, I think, is well developed from beginning to end, and a good example of what Martin's writing can be.
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Jun 1, 2010 22:45
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Astfgl posted:I think the point of those two characters is to show the inherent flaws in the Westerosi gender roles. Ned is the spitting image of the archetypal noble commander, and Sansa is the perfect little princess. Both characters are SUPPOSED to be stuck in their backwards, self-destructive ways because it makes the coming crucible all the more interesting. Whoever described Jon Snow as a perfect hero archetype with no business in this story is pretty close to what I'm saying. Ned and Sansa are fascinating because of the blinders they're wearing, and the fact that they're self-imposed to boot. Watching them take them off, or fail to, is the whole point. Agreed 100%. The typical "Hero's Journey" fantasy archetype has been done to death. Relatively humble beginnings. Thrown into extraordinary circumstances. Rising to the occasion. Fighting off enemies both political and physical. Finding a long-lost secret about yourself that makes you more than you are, etc. Jon Snow is an example of that kind of character at first. Martin plays with the genre a bit by throwing in the characters that fantasy readers are used to reading about - Good Guys, Bad Guys, Princesses, Kings, etc - and then flipping it around and watching the characters evolve over time. Jamie gets his anti-hero injection when his hand gets lopped off, the "Good" and valiant Starks get thrown to the four corners of the wind or killed, etc. Keep in mind, under all that happens throughout the four books, is the underlying question who takes care of the poor, regular people? At first the Brotherhood Without Banners takes some responsibility - but the war between the Starks and Lannisters really punishes the poor most of all. That message gets stronger as he goes through the books. Stannis learns it at some point, I think he says "I was trying to become a King so I could save the kingdom, I should have been trying to save the kingdom so I can become its King." or something similar. Dany is a good example of it, too. Trying to be a good ruler is more important than winning the fight. Soon the realization that there are hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people out there who couldn't give a poo poo which Lord swears allegiance to which King will hit them, and somebody will exploit it by appealing directly to the populace with food, land, etc. At least that's how I think the series moves, anyway.
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Jun 1, 2010 23:04
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Zombie Lincoln posted:A very informative post I completely missed this the first time I read the books. Also I would like to mention this blog of someone writing about the books as he reads them. He has done the first book last year and is now (rather slowly) working on the 2d one. I rather enjoyed reading it: http://blogoficeandfire.blogspot.com/
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Jun 1, 2010 23:34
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kanonvandekempen posted:I completely missed this the first time I read the books. I've been going through the archives of that blog as I read GoT. It's great and takes like 5 mins each day.
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Jun 2, 2010 03:12
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Zombie Lincoln posted:It's entirely possible that I'm the one confused. I didn't come up with the time-line (was edited in to my post), and I was assuming those dates were the "due dates". They're meant to be the start dates.
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Jun 2, 2010 04:49
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Dendra posted:They're meant to be the start dates. Whelp! On the plus side, there are way worse places to make that kind of mistake!
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Jun 2, 2010 04:58
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Zombie Lincoln posted:Whelp! I'm totally down to reread these books. Only made it through the first two before moving on to other stuff, but I've always really wanted to pick them up again. The banner ad you guys have running for this thread is hilarious. I watched it and thought, "what the gently caress is this? erotica?" followed by "glistened wetly? why in god's name does that sound familiar? when have I ever heard or read that phrase before?" I had to click. Then the memories of these books came rushing back. The universe made sense again. You dealt a wild card, and I accept it willingly. I shall join your summer read!
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Jun 2, 2010 06:05
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kanonvandekempen posted:Also I would like to mention this blog of someone writing about the books as he reads them. He has done the first book last year and is now (rather slowly) working on the 2d one. I rather enjoyed reading it: poo poo I just read that blog for like an hour instead of working. It's really good, but he (much like GRRM) needs to get back to writing it.
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Jun 2, 2010 06:59
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Locus posted:poo poo I just read that blog for like an hour instead of working. It's really good, but he (much like GRRM) needs to get back to writing it. Unfortunately you miss out on the ever changing top ten, or power rankings. Seriously, dude needs to get back on this thing.
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Jun 2, 2010 08:18
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Zombie Lincoln posted:Whelp! Spoilers in the non spoiler thread! True though, I should go find my book and check the chapters so i can join in (it's still missing from last week  )
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Jun 2, 2010 08:49
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I need to buy Zombie Lincoln a really really big present for that post. Seriously. Also, those pictures are so cool! It's so cool to see how big the wall actually is.. well not actually. In book. Well. you know. Shut up.
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Jun 2, 2010 11:20
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Astfgl posted:I think the point of those two characters is to show the inherent flaws in the Westerosi gender roles. Ned is the spitting image of the archetypal noble commander, and Sansa is the perfect little princess. Both characters are SUPPOSED to be stuck in their backwards, self-destructive ways because it makes the coming crucible all the more interesting. Whoever described Jon Snow as a perfect hero archetype with no business in this story is pretty close to what I'm saying. Ned and Sansa are fascinating because of the blinders they're wearing, and the fact that they're self-imposed to boot. Watching them take them off, or fail to, is the whole point. My problem with those two characters is not that they show how ridiculous they are (they do), but that it is difficult to see how they could ever got to be a) like that and b) survive in that world. He has plucked out stereotypes from the fantasy genre and has inserted them into situations where clearly they are unable to cope. They would have changed to be more pragmatic or failed and died long before that. This, I'm afraid, is bad writing. They're simply not believable and all entertainment from those characters derive from laughing at their stupidity. Whilst you might read into this text some critique of gender roles, and fair play if you do, it's hard to support the idea that this is Martin's intention and it's more likely a product of his terrible writing. (Yes I know, the author is dead etc., but that doesn't take away from Martin being a terrible writer). The plot is fine but Martin's inability to come up with a novel angle on anything starts to grind. I thought for a while that we'd at least escaped the whole "prophecy" bollocks that comes up in EVERY fantasy novel. But that duly turned up for Dany. Great. This story is far too long. Man, just cut the crap out of it and tell a good story rather than bloating everything. In almost every chapter there is pointless discussion and description of everything the characters do and think. And not in a good way, it's tell not show and it's boring. It's just not necessary and I've ended up just skipping through the verbose farting and picking out the pertinent plot points. For this I blame the editor rather than Martin, but still, the point stands. knees of putty fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jun 2, 2010 |
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Jun 2, 2010 14:47
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I basically can't respond to that post without spoiling a lot of stuff for you. I don't feel as if the books are long at all, especially not by fantasy standards, and the first three books are actually a surprisingly fast read. I will say that Ed has survived this long for a specific reason. There's also a reason why he's the only surviving Stark of the previous generation. As for Sansa, she's a 13 year old girl. She's never been in a situation before that would have forced her to change how she sees the world and interacts with it. Guess what's going to happen to her character! As for prophecy, your post is just precious, really.
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Jun 2, 2010 15:15
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Haraksha posted:Guess what's going to happen to her character! Is it a 4 letter word that starts with R?
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Jun 2, 2010 15:34
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Also, I like how he thinks he can determine what is and isn't relevant to the plot at this stage in the novels. There's a lot of poo poo going on at the same time.
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Jun 2, 2010 15:53
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Haraksha posted:
Not at all. Prophecy is a problem because it's lazy. The author no longer has to provide a motivation apart from "the old crone told me he would be king/emporer/saviour/whatever".
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Jun 2, 2010 16:01
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No, I meant you're precious for taking anything at face value.
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Jun 2, 2010 16:02
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