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I was very much not impressed with the first chapter. The prologue was alright, for what it was, but the first chapter felt so strange and forced to me. I guess that's because GRRM had a vision of this scene, and decided to construct the entire series around it, but it just feels forced.
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May 19, 2010 05:26
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Zombie Lincoln posted:Avoid this link until after you've already been to the Ayrie, of house Arryn. Painting by Komarck of the sky cells. Remember, the Sky Cells are different from the Moon Door. The Mountain that kills then rapes is the best character.
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May 20, 2010 01:28
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What I really, really didn't like were the minor tier characters who had POVs, but only once. That's really the greatest flaw in the later books. The further introduction of character threads that don't go anywhere and only further branch out the plot. In fact, it's actually worse than Robert Jordan in that regard.
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May 20, 2010 04:08
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whowhatwhere posted:ah...I can only really think of one non-prologue one? There's the guard and the knight and I think the daughter of Greyjoy only has one chapter from her POV. Edit: I hope this isn't considered spoilery since it's more a criticism of the writing and format and less so the story itself.
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May 20, 2010 05:33
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We should probably leave this kind of discussion for THE BAD THREAD.
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May 20, 2010 09:26
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Karter705 posted:the other thread (which isn't suited for anything). Rape.
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May 20, 2010 10:50
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Viconia posted:Are you trying to scare off the TVIVers? Seriously dude. Goons love Madmen and BSG. Madmen and BSG both featured rape. Erego, Goons love rape.
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May 20, 2010 10:54
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nintendo prower posted:I couldn't put the books down on my first readthrough but now I seem to get annoyed every time the chapters end. I just start getting into the character when the chapter ends and I have to start again! Still awesome books though and I'm sure I'll finish my second read well before the next book comes out... I completely agree with this. It's like it was designed with the intent of every chapter ending on a cliffhanger. I guess that's his way of keeping the pace up, but it's like as soon as something interesting happens in the chapter, you know it's about to change to a new POV.
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May 28, 2010 15:02
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Che Delilas posted:Same thing happened to me, but it was the first time I read. Yeah, it happened on my first read through, too. And Zombie Lincoln is right, the other characters and plots are interesting enough to keep you reading even though you really want to know what's going on with the character you just finished. Until you get to a chapter that starts "Danny was...", and then I just roll my eyes. I seriously cannot get into her POV or her story. Also, while early Cat chapters are pretty drat annoying, Sansa chapters are awesome just because of how naive she is. Even though I hate everything her character does, it's always fun to read. It's the same reason why I love Cersei chapters.
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May 29, 2010 01:27
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Anders posted:^^^^^^ My interpretation of it is that the reason why all this poo poo happens to House Stark in the first place is because Ed joins forces with Robert to rebel because Robert assumes that his "true love" has been forcefully captured and raped. That is how House Baratheon slays House Stark, and the events we're seeing are just the fallout.
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May 31, 2010 01:24
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Feast for Crows is the most boring, sorry.
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Jun 1, 2010 07:10
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I would use glisten to describe something covered in ice or snow, and while made of water, I wouldn't necessarily call it wet.
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Jun 1, 2010 10:52
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Hasn't your girlfriend ever read Twilight?
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Jun 1, 2010 13:21
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Manhoods don't.  http://tantusinc.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TD&Product_Code=VAMP&Category_Code=DI
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Jun 1, 2010 14:22
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I basically can't respond to that post without spoiling a lot of stuff for you. I don't feel as if the books are long at all, especially not by fantasy standards, and the first three books are actually a surprisingly fast read. I will say that Ed has survived this long for a specific reason. There's also a reason why he's the only surviving Stark of the previous generation. As for Sansa, she's a 13 year old girl. She's never been in a situation before that would have forced her to change how she sees the world and interacts with it. Guess what's going to happen to her character! As for prophecy, your post is just precious, really.
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Jun 2, 2010 15:15
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Also, I like how he thinks he can determine what is and isn't relevant to the plot at this stage in the novels. There's a lot of poo poo going on at the same time.
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Jun 2, 2010 15:53
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No, I meant you're precious for taking anything at face value.
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Jun 2, 2010 16:02
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What he said above is completely true. He doesn't need to play at intrigue because his best bud in the whole world is the king, he has no desire to get more than he has, and no one wants what he's already got. Also, the last time Eddard played at intrigue, it resulted in a horrible civil war. Plus, his actions directly lead to the brutal murder of children (and rape of their mother!). His biggest mistake is assuming that the other characters will want to avoid that happening again because they lived through the same events he did. Unfortunately, it appears that noble Eddard was the only one to learn that lesson.
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Jun 2, 2010 16:29
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It's really more a preconception of the reader that GRRM is being lazy by using prophecy as a plot device. Remember, these books do a really good job of deconstructing the fantasy genre, so anytime you think you know what's going to happen, you're actually probably incredibly wrong.
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Jun 2, 2010 16:50
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knees of putty posted:He's not deconstructing anything. You could, for example, deconstruct his text and find an opposition between say, fantasy tropes and the modern view of gender roles, but it would be wrong to claim that he is analysing anything. Creating stereotypes, badly characterising them and creating a tension as a result of that is lovely writing. I'd be glad to praise him as a mighty satiricist commenting on the parlous state of fantasy and fantasy fans, but it doesn't seem convincing to me. Whatever guy. He intentionally included something in the story to play off the preconceptions of the reader based on what they expected out of the genre and then totally turned the tables on them, and he'll do this over and over again throughout the story. Call it whatever you want, he's intentionally messing with the reader's expectations.
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Jun 3, 2010 03:06
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Well, the way he talked about prophecy as a lazy plot device leads me to believe he is, at the very least, casually familiar with the tropes of the genre.
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Jun 3, 2010 05:08
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Viconia posted:Precisely this. So, our days of discussing the finer points of the biology of lactating breasts are nearing their end?
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Jun 7, 2010 09:54
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therapy posted:Strong Belwas eats a pound of bacon as a breakfast appetizer and thirty fried hen's eggs after each battle. What he does to a plate of lemoncakes is the closest he can ever get to rape.
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Jun 14, 2010 08:06
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A part of me wishes that GRRM had written an alternate universe story where Robert had abdicated the throne and gone off to wreck Esteros for the hell of it.
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Jun 17, 2010 08:54
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It would basically be a classical romance and not an epic fantasy at all. Bangin' hoes and bangin' bros (with a hammer).
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Jun 17, 2010 17:54
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Vanadium posted:So if I skip all the Danaerys viewpoint chapters, am I going to miss anything as far as the plot over on Westeros goes? Nope! There are some characters that eventually meet up with her in books 3 and 5lol.
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Jun 18, 2010 18:19
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therapy posted:That would make sense. As the merchant classes became more powerful they would "buy" nobility. The way I see it, titles like Duke and Baron are just shorthand for how powerful a member of the nobility is. We've seen it demonstrated in this world how important it is to be able to recognize every banner so you can know who is pledged to who. When you start calling people by titles that indicate strength, you don't have to remember all of the houses under them to get an idea of their power. "Ah, Duke Baratheon, he controls approximately one seventh of the kingdom." "Baron Frey? He's strong locally but only a major player when he decides to withhold that strength." And I imagine if someone introduced you to a noble with a really unimportant title, you'd be able to immediately dismiss them without needing to think about who might be sworn to their house.
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Jun 19, 2010 09:07
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Karter705 posted:Yeah, (speculation based on stuff that happens in all four books) Dany is Azor Azai reborn and Jon is the Prince that was Promised. Melisandre is confused and thinks these are the same people. Even so, I think Jon is the protagonist of the series, since 'his is the song of ice and fire'. Tyrion, being a secret Targ, will be the third, if short, head.
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Jun 20, 2010 02:34
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palatka posted:I just started reading a Game of Thrones which I am enjoying. I especially liked the prologue about the Others. However, since then though the book has been mostly filled with family-type drama (I'm at page 100 or something). Is GOT all about drama or is there more adventure/fantasy later on? The title of the book isn't subtle at all. It's almost exclusively family drama. Dany and Jon are the only two characters who really have adventure/fantasy stories until the later books.
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Jul 10, 2010 16:18
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Joff is a perfect example of why you need a variety of ingredients to get the best results in the kitchen.
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Jul 13, 2010 10:08
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Perhaps the cure itself was working fine but the itching was something she added to make sure Drogo ruined it himself.
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Jul 16, 2010 07:38
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Well, I'm hard.
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Jul 21, 2010 06:18
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Unless you've never had sex and you have no idea how it's supposed to work. Some of us got our sexual education from GRRM.
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Jul 22, 2010 04:03
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The only nitpick I have to that block of text is that Lannisters don't need to seize the thrown. They have the throne already. Cersei just couldn't wait until Robert drank himself to death and acted early. #Cerseiideas makes the next book that much more entertaining, in my opinion.
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Jul 24, 2010 03:40
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Up until Robert got gored, Ned really hadn't tried to do anything. Yeah, he was getting close to figuring out Cersei's secret, but it's not like she couldn't have demanded trial by combat and chosen GREGOR to defend her purity. Well, unless Robert thinking you cheated on him trumped being allowed trial by combat. Remember, Tywin thought longterm. If Cersei and her brood were executed, Tywin likely would have called in his debts. It's not like a fat, slow Robert was going to be able to smash his way into Casterly Rock. But, this is just speculation. Who knows how things would have gone down? The fact that Robert was surrounded by Lannisters probably means he would have been assassinated as soon as he moved against Cersei.
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Jul 24, 2010 05:30
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I don't think anyone has said that Sansa's chapters are irrelevant, just that Sansa is incredibly naive and frustrating to read because of that.
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Jul 24, 2010 10:56
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Nerd Watch posted:Guys, guys, you're all forgetting about Rickon! I'm sure we'll find out in the next book. 
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Jul 25, 2010 02:50
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Karter705 posted:This, and that Rickon's character might have made more sense if GRRM had done the 5 year gap between Storm of Swords and Dance with Dragons, as he originally intended. I'm really excited because Dance is almost finished and we'll be able to see where his character goes from there. Edit: I guess this is getting kinda spoilerish so we should stop, but I'm just so pumped for Dance to finally be out later this year.
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Jul 25, 2010 03:44
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It's not split arbitrarily, it's split by region. Book 4 takes place in Westeros and Braavos and book 5 will take place in The North and the East.
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Jul 28, 2010 19:21
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Yeah, we haven't seen Oldtown, so we probably shouldn't speculate too much.
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Aug 5, 2010 20:16
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