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iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


FirstPersonShitter posted:

What the hell does high speed low drag mean? I thought it was some kind of TFR in-joke about tacticlol gun aerodynamics but I've seen it used in other places too and I'm worried the world has gone mad.

If you have to ask, you don't need to know. :smug:

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iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Figured this would be the best place for this, since I am (technically) asking a question, and I don't really want to start a new thread because it would be nothing but blue balls, seeing as how I don't have any good pictures.

A couple of months ago I asked questions for the best methods for medium to long term storage of guns in order to prevent corrosion. This was because I was going to be back in the Midwest on leave and was going down to my grandfather's place in Kansas to see what his gun collection consisted of, and to make sure they were going to be well preserved, as I was fairly certain he had at least a few cool old guns and was also fairly certain that he wasn't taking the best care of them.

So, what did I find?

Well, for starters, a pretty run of the mill 10/22, NIB. He won this, and the next gun, from his job and proceeded to store them away without bothering to even remove the tags, much less shoot them.

The next gun was a Winchester Model 1894, in .30-30 of course, manufactured sometime in the 1970s, as far as I could tell. NIB pristine condition.

That gets the "new" stuff out of the way, on to the old.

First up, a Winchester 37 single shot shotgun, chambered in .410. This was in pretty rough condition, the wood was a little beat up and there was some spots of pitting on the metal, as well as a lot of surface rust. Grandpa said he bought it sometime in the 1950s.

Next, Stevens 5100 SxS 12 gauge, in passable condition (better than the 37, still pretty beat up, not much pitting but a fair amount of surface rust). Still quite a bit of the original finish left. Features a case hardened engraved boxlock. This gun was probably made sometime in the '30s or '40s, and is in pretty good shape considering that fact.

Getting back to Winchester, next is a slick Winchester 62A .22 pump action rifle. To be clear, I didn't do this to get an "in" on any of the guns or anything, I did it because I was worried that there were some pieces of history that were being neglected, but goddamn, when my grandfather passes on (not likely anytime soon, the guy spent his whole life eating bacon fat and drinking beer and he's as healthy as a horse at 70, he's going to live to be 90 at least :)), that Winchester 62A is on my "really really want list." It's like sex, I'm bringing a couple bricks of .22lr the next time I'm in the Midwest, because me and him are going shooting so I can put that thing through its paces. It's that nice. On top of that, it's in as almost as good condition as the NIB guns in his collection..bit of a surface rust near the muzzle, but that cleaned off pretty nicely. Other than that, the original finish is pretty much good. :fap:

Finally, last but certainly not least, a Winchester 97. 12 ga, with the standard 30'' barrel. This gun is quite possibly older than my grandfather, and considering that it's not in bad shape...wood is a little beat up, and the metal has a nice patina to it.

So, that's the collection...what, if any, of those are particularly noteworthy? If anyone wants to give me ballpark figures for what they're worth (tough to do without pictures, I know, but I just said "ballpark"), my grandparents would be appreciative as I told them I'd attempt to give them an estimate of what those are worth.

Ah, and in the other thread I mentioned a Colt Lightning in .38-40...well, since this trip was about guns, my grandfather arranged a little side trip for us. Apparently, I have a second cousin or something that lives in the same general area as my grandparents who is a huge gun collector. When I say "gun collector," I mean guns that were made two centuries ago type of guns. I think the newest gun in his collection was a S&W M1917 that was probably made sometime in the '20s. A lot of the remainder had a production date that started with "18--" something. The collection consisted of a shitload of revolvers and about 10 or so rifles. One was the aforementioned Lightning, the rest of them were various types of Marlin lever action rifles, in a plethora of calibers, and featuring not one but two saddlering carbines...here's the :psyboom: part: he had some original era-ish manufactured ammo for each gun. The revolvers were mainly Colts and S&Ws (obviously) but there were also some Marlin revolvers (mainly cute little derringers, with some sick intricate engraving on them). Some of these had a really weird action that I had never seen before...it was like the opposite of a top break. Instead of breaking open with the barrel pointing down, they pointed up. The condition these guns were in was nuts...of the ~40, I think maybe 5 were in NRA Good, with another 5 in Very Good, with the rest in Very Good Plus or better. I DO have pictures of these, but they're crappy ones on my cell phone...anyone have a good way of getting pictures off of a non-smartphone?

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Unrelated question...I've decided that I may be in the market for a spotting scope. Any recommendations?

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


So...without being a petulant little "me me me" bitch, does everyone seriously not care about my "Grandfather has a Winchester 62A and 97 and Stevens 5100 among other cool guns" post? I mean, if so, I'll just lurk back to the shadows, but it seemed like that post got buried, especially since no one answered my spotting scope question.

Also, spotting scopes: which ones are good/what should I look for/etc.?

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


The Automator posted:

Are you really doing this?

Yes, yes I am. :colbert:

But seriously, the spotting scope thing...that's at least a legitimate question.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


walrusman posted:

You don't have pictures. Jerk. :shobon:

Hey, I asked for help getting pictures off of a non-smart phone...so I've got crappy cell phone pics at least.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


infrared35 posted:

So I ran into a couple of the OH-58 pilots while I was at the airport. Is it customary for Army chopper piolts to have their nicknames on their uniform name tapes? I mean, who knows... maybe their real names were "Bimmer" and "Cow Pie."

:tinfoil:

Call signs. All military aviators have them, and depending on the environment (usually informal, like either flying or, more commonly, hanging out at the club after work) they'll have their "call sign" patch on the front of the flight suit instead of the one with their real name/rank.

Of course, Army chopper pilots are usually warrant officers, who don't give a poo poo about anything other than flying, so it's highly likely that they wear their uniform like that all the time.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gtab posted:

Long-term depression is pretty poo poo for those afflicted.

Yes, yes it is. :smith:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Aleksei Vasiliev posted:

Just fire from your hip

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Cyrano4747 posted:

Hoppes hasn't had ammonia compounds in it for about 30 years. Check the latest MSDS on it.

:colbert:

http://www.hoppes.com/msds/904_MSDS.pdf: this says that it contains ammonium hydroxide.

However, your casual mention of MSDS...:gay:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Cyrano4747 posted:

Gah, you're right. Color me corrected. I must have looked at the wrong sheet last night, or misread it, or something. I just went back and re-checked and there it is, 2nd from the bottom.

And yes, I keep up to date (or at least reasonably so) MSDS sheets on most of the chemicals that I use to clean/maintain my guns. A long while back I (we're talking early undergrad, here) I went through a science geek phase, and this is one aspect which never quite wore off.

We've got a UCI (Unit Compliance Inspection) coming up, which is basically where people come in and make sure you are complying with the myriad of regs, rules, and other required stuff...one of the required things is that you have an MSDS for all chemically related stuff in the shop. One of our shops got told they needed to have an MSDS for windex and hand sanitizer. :suicide:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Pitch posted:

How dare they require you to keep safety information on-hand for poisonous cleansers.

...these are shops that are in offices. It's an office. It DOESN'T HAVE an MSDS repository like our other more industrial shops do. If we're talking about our Trailer Maintenance shop, which has a shitton of really nasty grease, lubricants, and corrosion prevention coating, then I don't have (that big) of a problem with them sticking the MSDS for windex or hand sanitizer or whatever in with their big binder o' MSDS. But to require an office to specifically get MSDS for household cleaning chemicals is loving retarded, and, I should note, is usually not required. Usually if it's a "household" chemical, you aren't required to keep an MSDS for it.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gtab posted:

Seriously why do you even take issue with it at all? What the gently caress is possibly remotely wrong with needing to keep documentation for poisonous goods -- common or not -- around? What issue could you possibly take with a binder in a desk drawer somewhere containing two sheets of paper?

Good God man.

This is a UCI covering every single possible aspect of our unit. Not just environmental, or OSH, or anything like that...Every. Single. Possible. Thing. This was during a SAV (some folks came in to "help" us determine if we weren't in compliance) so I guess I'm a) annoyed that they would mention such a flippant thing, and b) annoyed that the actual inspector would even care.

How many office environments do you see that have a loving MSDS for windex and hand sanitizer? And not just "hand sanitizer," but a different MSDS for every single brand of hand sanitizer in the office?

I'm 110% behind keeping an MSDS for anything that is remotely industrial/hazardous, and like I said before, I don't have that big of a problem with an shop that has other stuff that needs an MSDS throwing in the MSDS for cleaning supplies, etc. Why I have a problem with requiring office environments to do it is that it's not as simple (at least by the Air Force's rules) as putting a binder with two sheets of paper in it in a desk drawer. There are very specific posting, placarding, displaying, and marking requirements for where and how you keep your MSDS. To make an office go through all that asspain for nothing more than windex and hand sanitizer is loving retarded.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gtab posted:

Explain how you think it denotes a lack of judgment or trivializes workplace safety to have the chemical data for poisonous substances available to workers.

I'm not talking about all MSDS...I'm completely okay with about 95% of the MSDS requirements out there. What I have a problem with is making an office (not an industrial work environment, a loving office with chairs and computers...the worst "industrial hazard" there is getting a papercut or shredding your hand in the paper shredder) get a specifically colored and marked binder and making them display it in a very specific manner for nothing more than windex and hand sanitizer.

Like Fang said, requiring MSDS for something that everyone knows is completely harmless (windex) trivializes the MSDS for stuff that is legitimately harmful but doesn't appear so...some of our grease, for example, has no negative effects in the short term, but is a fairly powerful carcinogen. If people don't take the MSDS seriously because of "hurr, there's an MSDS for windex and this stuff doesn't harm me at all," they could have this grease come into contact with their skin on a regular basis due to not taking proper precautions because there's no reason to since there are no negative effects in the short term, but in the long term such behavior will increase their cancer risk.

Edit: for clarity.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jun 26, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gtab posted:

youre literally whining that the government has its nose in your job... working for the government. try to get some perspective.

I think you protest too much...this isn't a "hurr gubmint" rant, this is a "hurr stupidity" rant. Honestly, half the OSH rules we follow aren't OSHA driven, they're Air Force driven. You're taking my "while MSDS is generally a good thing but this particularly application of the rule is retarded" rant and turning it into a "haha, look at this dumb tea party paultard right wingnut who wants the government to stop protecting workers from nasty chemicals even though he works for the government! haha!" Stop.

Gtab posted:

I want you to spray your eyes with Windex and then drink the bottle and then come back and post regular updates about your health, since it's so harmless and everyone knows this.

From the Windex MSDS: "EMERGENCY OVERVIEW - The product contains no substances which at their given concentration, are considered to be hazardous to health"

So yes, Windex is more or less harmless.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Here's the relevant OSHA requirement regarding the use of "consumer" chemicals in the workplace:

OSHA posted:

The HCS exempts any consumer product or hazardous substance, as those terms are defined in the Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq.) and Federal Hazardous Substances Act (15 U.S.C. 1261 et seq.) respectively, where the employer can show that it is used in the workplace for the purpose intended by the chemical manufacturer or importer of the product, and the use results in a duration and frequency of exposure which is not greater than the range of exposures that could reasonably be experienced by consumers when used for the purpose intended.

The AF requirement goes far above and beyond this...why, I don't know, but THAT'S what I'm bitching about.

Explaining the AF's obsession with safety might help to better understand why this pisses me off so much...I'm not talking about safety like "hurr, drat gubmint preventing babies from working in coal mines" safety, I'm talking about how if you use rubbing alcohol (nothing special, just basic, could've bought it at the drug store rubbing alcohol) you have to wear latex gloves and goggles, or how you have to do the same if you are using a can of spray paint. Not special super secret stealth F-22 cancer causing spray paint, just basic could've bought it at Lowe's spray paint. These are stupid rules that serve no point. I work around explosives all day, I understand that there are tedious rules out there that serve a purpose (like pretty much anything related to explosives safety). This MSDS crap is just stupid pointless rules.

And don't get me started on reflective belts...

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


emathey posted:

We have a UCI coming up too, and we (office) don't keep MSDS info for our windex. :ohdear:

It's probably a PACAF thing...this MAJCOM has so much stupidity.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


bunnielab posted:

This is why I dont really worry.

According to NIH I and everyone I have ever worked with should be deaf as a post. And yet my last hearing test seemed to show that my hearing is perfect. The way sound works and how it effects the human ear is a combination of a ton of factors and just going by db rating is nothing but overreaction.

I am not advocating not wearing ear-pro when shooting but it is a dramatic over statement to claim that popping a round off at a dear or an intruder will deafen you.

Emphasis on the bolded part...guns have a much higher decibel rating than the tools on your chart (in the 140-170 range, generally), so even a short impulse type noise from a gun can cause major damage...as evidenced by me. I've got tinnitus in my left ear from an incident or two of shooting with inadequate/no earpro. I can back up what Cyrano was saying about unfucked hearing having damage done with a single round; my first time out pheasant hunting I only shot my gun twice and my ears were ringing for a week afterwards. (My job probably doesn't help, though...Air Force maintenance, although I'm an officer so it's not like I'm out on the line every day.)

And yeah, aircraft ground crew have it the worst...it's rare that you'll find someone who retires from the AF after 20+ years in maintenance who isn't getting 10-15% disability from hearing loss/tinnitus.

As far as the dad/suicide/guns thing, few things affect the situation...was he in the care center voluntarily or involuntarily? If it was voluntarily, the police can go gently caress off. Even in a state as crazy as NJ, there's no way they can do anything to him if the commitment was voluntary.

If it was involuntarily, there might be some crazy :catdrugs: NJ law, but I doubt it...as long as there isn't a crazy NJ law, he'd have to be adjudicated mentally incompetent (which is a helluva lot more complicated and lengthy than a stay in an institution because you were dealing with depression) before he's prohibited from possessing firearms. Also, why is a prosecutor getting involved? Unless there was a crime committed, no legal reason for the police to be saying "the prosecutor has advised us" as justification for anything.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Eat This Glob posted:

Do they cover Delta poo poo? I've got a guy I need to gently caress with so bad. If I'm wrong he'll kill me sure, but his history is so hosed I'm sure he's wrong.

If someone is claiming he was in the poo poo with Delta, it's pretty much guaranteed he's talking out of his rear end. You'll notice that pretty much the only publicly acknowledged members of Delta are either a) high ranking (Charlie Beckwith, Peter Schoomaker, etc.); b) dead (Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon), or c) the few retired members who are breaking the code of silence (Eric Haney, Larry Vickers, a few of the guys Mark Bowden interviewed for Black Hawk Down.) All those guys did so for good reasons...someone just randomly bragging about it almost guarantees that someone is full of poo poo.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Completely random gun cleaning related question...does Break Free or Hoppe's have the possibility of setting off a Carbon Monoxide detector? Reason I ask was that I was doing some cleaning tonight (trying to clean up the bore on my new K98k) and my detector just randomly started going off, saying there was explosive gas in the house (i.e., propane/methane/natural gas). Seeing as how that should be pretty clearly indicated by the smell, I'm pretty sure that wasn't it, and I feel fine, no CO or other poisoning symptoms. I'm just trying to figure out if my detector is crapping out or if it was a false positive.

Also, if I don't respond to this, you'll know what happened. :angel:

Edit: Before anyone asks, no, I'm not just sitting here with my muffs on while the detector goes off...I ventilated the house and it doesn't seem to be going off anymore, so it was either a false positive or it's just crapping out.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jul 5, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


rossmum posted:

I have muppet arms so I was a little worried about .45 ACP at first, but it soon proved to be nothing. I can't speak for anything else chambered for it, but I did shoot a 1911, and it was amazing.

Don't limpwrist it and you'll be just fine.

Also, dity foreigner question here: the gently caress do NFA and AOW stand for? I know SBR but I only have a vague sense of what the former two mean, not what the letters actually signify.

NFA - National Firearms Act. Law passed in 1934 that was intended to restrict the dirty evil guns that gangsters used, which is why it focused on automatic/selective fire weapons, suppressors, AOWs, SBRs, and SBSs. This is the basis of the $200 tax stamp you'll hear discussed when dealing with many of these weapons...while it doesn't seem like much now, it was a substantial amount of money at the time.

AOW - Any Other Weapons. Provision of the NFA that deals with stuff that is...any other weapon. It is kind of a catchall, but the most common thing that falls under it is a pistol with a VFG installed.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


SadWhaleFamily posted:

NFA = National Firearms Act. This was the bill passed in the 1934 to combat mobster weapons possession (look up poo poo on John Dillinger and his gang, and you'll see why full-auto, grenades, and short-barreled stuff got regulated)

AOW = any other weapon. It's kind of a murky, ambiguous definition of any concealable gun that a private individual can have or manufacture that doesn't fall under short-barreled shotguns or rifles, like a pistol with a vertical forearm grip. I'm not hugely expertly clear on this whole thing either, other than it's $200 to make and $5 to transfer to another bank robber law-abiding US citizen. Also it kind of gives the ATF broad power to interpret anything they feel like as an AOW, as long as it's concealable, I guess.

edit:GODDAMMIT gently caress

Haha, well, you had more detail than me, so it's good.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Since we're talking about '30s and gangsters and the NFA...



Edit for a question: Any recommendation for a decent spotting scope? I don't need anything with a ton of bells and whistles, but I'm a firm believer in buying quality and buying once.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 6, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


HFX posted:

If those were readily available real deal, you know every TFR'r would find a duty to have one under his bed, one in his trunk, and one slung across his back unless he was in said bed. Or maybe that is just the C&R person in me.

Not just the cut down BAR, but pretty much the entire Dillinger Gang and Bonnie and Clyde armory...Thompsons and 1911s galore, a smattering of old school Colt and S&W revolvers, some 1903/08 Pocket Hammerlesses, Remington 8s (because those guns are tits and I want one), and of course the cut down BAR and the 1911 machine pistol in .38 Super.

And seriously...that scene where the BAR is laying down some fire and the .30-06 brass is flying out like it's a Thompson...:fap:

Edit: Forgot about the Winchester 1907s, Model 97 trench/riot guns, the whipit sawed off Model 11, some lever action rifles, and of course, the lever action 10 gauge (!) that Winstead is toting.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jul 6, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Inspector_71 posted:

I have no doubt that cops would gently caress your poo poo up if they wanted to but NYPD officers aren't some kind of comic book villain sitting at the NYC borders pulling over every out-of-state car. And even if they did pull you over they wouldn't immediately toss your car.

I don't know why you think he'd have any trouble with the guns in a locked case in his trunk unless he insisted on driving over 100MPH the whole way while weaving between lanes.

Is he a minority? Because then the chances of his car getting tossed during a normal traffic stop go up astronomically.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Pitch posted:

They don't need bolt cutters or a warrant. Murky probably cause is all they need to search the entire vehicle and they may compel you to open any locked containers inside (or arrest you for obstruction, then cut it open at the station).

That's the really lovely part...even if you assert your constitutional rights and refuse to let them search the car/open a locked container without a warrant, they'll just arrest you for obstruction and do it anyway.

Fake edit: For the record, that's not an NYPD thing so much as an "all but standard U.S. law enforcement" thing.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gtab posted:

hrm yes because when I hold a Beretta the first thing I think to myself is "man I wish this gun were bigger and heavier"

:iceburn:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


gimpsuitjones posted:

Now my actual question that I popped in here to ask:

Is there any reason why I shouldn't buy an Aimpoint CompML2?

Go big or go home:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Uncle Caveman posted:

Wasn't there some dude in Iraq who turned his hand(s) into Spaghetti-O's doing exactly this with a .50bmg round?

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/50BMGRoundDetonatedInHandjpg.jpg

Possibly :nws: depending on where you work, it's pretty graphic.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Aperture Priority posted:

What would have happened to the cartridge when it went off? I assume it would have split spectacularly since it was unsupported by a chamber.

What The Automator said. Normally I'm all for giving the dude involved in a mishap the benefit of the doubt, but jesus christ, he was hammering on a PIN using the primer end of the round...what the gently caress did he expect to happen?

Army Strong Stupid! :patriot:

And if you think that's bad, you should see the safety missive I got a few months ago about why you should stay away from a running jet engine's suction zone...the aftermath isn't very pretty, although I guess a positive is that there really wasn't anything left that was recognizable as a human being (or any organism, really...it was more a pink spray with some chunks), so it wasn't too disturbing until you realized what it used to be.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


LavistaSays posted:

This guy didn't seem to much worse for wear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_gpPbpONK4

That guy was loving lucky...his cranial protection separated from his head and FODed out the engine, the A-6 has rather long intakes before you even reach the first compressor blades, and the pilot shut down the engine before he really got sucked in.

Contrast that to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1DkUOOfDFk&feature=related (video is work safe, the only thing harmed is a bunch of snow).

The incident that the report was discussing actually involved a 737 (the aircraft in the video), which has the additional hazard of its engines being mounted unusually low due to the original JT8D engines being replaced with CFM56s, which are much larger around. As you can see from the video, you can get pretty close without any sort of suction, but once you get into that zone you're pretty much hosed, especially if the engine is running at full throttle because you're doing a test/troubleshooting run at the gate, in direct contravention of the applicable tech data and your own airline's regulations, as was occurring in the incident I'm talking about.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jul 22, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


I like turtles posted:

I want cheap, decent OWB leather or polymer holsters for carrying at the range, etc. Would like to get one for a 5" 1911, Sig P226, and possibly HK P7. What should I be looking for, and expecting to spend? Or should I just get a generic "large semi auto" for the 1911 and 226, and just rely on my IWB for the P7?

I suppose that depends on your definition of "decent." For any real quality leather holster, you're probably looking at $60-80...I'm personally a big fan of UBG Holsters: http://www.ubgholsters.com/owb.htm

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Propagandalf posted:

Should I be indignant or honored that people keep confusing my 556 for a SCAR?

...I made this mistake initially while watching Inception during the snow/mountains gunfight scene.

Gtab posted:

I wish people had never started saying "stopping power" indiscriminately but hey whatcha gonna do

For me it's not so much the "stopping power" as the "STOPPIN' POWAH!!!"

I die a little bit inside whenever I inadvertently use the phrase "stopping power" as shorthand for something when talking about CNS damage or massive blood loss.

There was a Colt Trooper up here at one of the local gun shops for around $350 (it may have been closer to $400); I came back a day later intending to purchase it and someone had already snapped it up (it was on sale for less than a week).

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


spankmeister posted:

You can help more!

What movie is that from? :downs:

...seriously?

Black Hawk Down

Who's hungry?

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Detective Thompson posted:

Blackhawk Down

It is the UH-60 Black Hawk, because the aircraft was named after the Sauk Chief Black Hawk. Ergo, it is Black Hawk Down.

But yeah, the movie is pretty good. They had to combine/modify some characters to take the book to the screen (which is why I second the recommendation to read the book first) but overall it's a pretty faithful depiction of the events. Getting DoD's support/equipment really helped. The support was up in the air until the last minute, so the moviemakers had a contingency plan in the works to have UH-1s/Bell 212s stand in for the MH-60s...which would've really sucked, to say the least.

The biggest points of contention between the movie and what really occurred (other than name changes and the like) are that the U.N. forces are portrayed as less competent/doing a lot less fighting than they actually did, and that the Somalis are portrayed as little more than bloodthirsty warmongers, when there actually were quite a few valid reasons that certain Somali clans were pissed off at the U.S./U.N. forces (not the least of which were the fact that we leveled without provocation a safe house where Somali elders from Aidid's tribe were meeting to discuss ways to end the violence.)

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Black Stormy posted:

I don't know where else to put this, so I am just going to put it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sud0NJFpJUg&feature=player_embedded

That's awesome. And now I'm going to go fry some bacon for breakfast.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Two questions -

First, I'm looking for a (relatively) cheap bare bones 1911 for carry purposes. Basically a standard 1911 with the usual basic refinements for carry (low profile Novak-esque sights, beavertail, commander hammer, beveled/flared ejection port, etc.) I don't need a super tactical slide serrations, frontstrap/backstrap checkering, extended ambidextrous controls, light rail behemoth (I've already got my Kimber, thank you very much :smug:). I'm probably looking for something in the $400-600 range. Is RIA's stuff any good? I would like to carry it, so reliability is kind of important...I'm not requiring GLOCK PERFECTION, but something that chokes every 50 rounds isn't exactly going to work either.

Second, turns out my transfer dealer is also a SOT Class III dealer. He has some SBS 14'' 870s for sale. I am interested in picking up one of them, for a variety of reasons. However, I am also Active Duty Air Force, and will unfortunately be leaving Alaska in a few short years. My job is such that the chances of me getting assigned to a gun unfriendly state (Massachusetts, California, Hawaii, and Illinois seem to be the big NFA unfriendly ones with Air Force Bases in them) are pretty slim, although I have found some contradictory data about NFA items in Missouri and Louisiana...anyone know about the law of those states regarding NFA items? (I could possibly get assigned to bases in those states). Anyway, my real question is that, assuming there are no prohibitions on the item at the state level, how much of an asspain is it to transfer NFA items (specifically SBSs, SBRs, and suppressors...I know think the rules are slightly different for machine guns, and I don't really care about AOWs or DDs) from one state to another as part of a permanent move? I know there's a form you have to fill out and submit to the ATF, kind of like moving with a C&R license, but is there anything else that goes along with it?

Edit: There's also a pretty good chance I will have to spend at least a year (if not more) assigned overseas (yay remote tours to Korea!) I assume that leaving NFA items with a trusted friend/relative for safekeeping like I'd probably do with my "normal" guns is probably a no go, but what about locking them up in a storage facility? I assume the ATF would be cool with this as long as no one else has access to them? Or are they a little more stringent about this stuff? (As above, mainly talking about SBRs/SBSs and suppressors, not machine guns or anything else.)

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Aug 21, 2010

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Craptacular posted:

Machine guns, SBSes, SBRs, DDs and suppressors have to have an approved form 5320.20 for interstate transport, whether temporary or permanent. AOWs and suppressors don't need them, but the ATF will still approve a 5320.20 for them if you submit one.

If you need to keep your title II guns somewhere else, you have two options. First, you could put them in storage where no one else can access them. This could be as simple as a locked hard case stored at a relative's house. If they don't have the key or combination then the ATF doesn't consider it a transfer to them. You could also use a safe deposit box.

Second, if the guns are possessed by an LLC or trust then the people you leave the guns with could be added to the LLC as a member or the trust as a trustee and then they could possess the guns the same as any other member or trustee.

Thanks for the info...another question - how strict are they on making sure the paperwork is approved before you make the move? Reason I ask is that I usually don't know where I'm going to be living before I PCS; I move and then live on base for a week or two while I go around and hunt for a place to live. For the C&R license, it was no big deal to wait a few weeks and send in the paperwork after I had moved and found a place to live, but I'm guessing that they might be a little more controlling when it comes to NFA items.

Also, thanks for the RIA thumbs up...a RIA tactical is just about what I was looking for.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gewehr 43 posted:

If you have specific questions, Craptacular or myself will likely be able to help you.

What are the advantages (if any) to using an LLC to purchase NFA items other than getting around the CLEO sign off requirement?

Additional question: When you move/submit a 5320.20, do you have to get CLEO approval from the area you are moving to, or is the CLEO sign off only a requirement when you first purchase the item?

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iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


Gewehr 43 posted:

Moving out of state gets a little quirky w/NFA registered to an LLC. I need to think about it a bit because I'm dead tired at the moment, but I'm not sure what the process is - or if there even is one - for moving an entire LLC to another state. As LLC's are usually state-level entities, moving it to another state may not be possible depending on the destination state's laws.

In that case, you'd have to start a new LLC in the new state then transfer your guns to your new LLC through a C3 in the new state.

I could be wrong. I'll think about this tomorrow and get back to it.

Okay, so it looks like since I'm going to be moving around quite a bit for the foreseeable future it'd be best to just go the CLEO/fingerprints route. Thanks for reading my mind, by the way, as far as transferring NFA items owned by a LLC to another state. That was going to be my next question. I was actually going to probably forgo any NFA goodness because of the whole Air Force/move every 3-4 years thing, but this 14'' 870 is calling out to me.

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