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Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

hammeredspace posted:

I'd pretty much choke on my own loving poo poo if I had to deal with that much brass on a daily basis.

Officers are just like real people, man, only in some cases they have nicer cars and/or bigger houses.

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GetHardHero
Apr 15, 2007

I am gun down your faces


Lets not turn this thread into an enlisted/officer debate please. This is a sperg story station. I have seen officers get preferential treatment as much as I have seen junior enlisted here. I have also seen people get loving annihilated for petty poo poo. I don't know why you see guys lose their language over homework counselings or looking at facebook while some people get frat charges dropped or get restriction for drunk on duty but keep their language.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

427 TOTALLY LEGITIMATE, DEFENSIBLE NATIONAL TITLES AND COUNTING


Slippery posted:

Why would the institution have any reason to give him special treatment?

Institutionalized special treatment, maybe?

hammeredspace
Jun 22, 2008
I produce infinite faggotry

edit: nvrmind gonna not do what gethardhero said not to do

GetHardHero posted:

I don't know why you see guys lose their language over homework counselings or looking at facebook while some people get frat charges dropped or get restriction for drunk on duty but keep their language.

For comparison there was an airman in my Spanish class who got caught drinking with a bunch of marines up at the PX one night, and she was underage. All she had to do was go to an AA course a couple of times and she was good. Stayed in class and everything.

If a sailor got caught doing that he'd get flayed to the bone and punted undesignated out to some bucket out in the middle of the Atlantic.

hammeredspace fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jun 27, 2010

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

We had people recycled to a different language (Spanish) if they were rocks, but nobody in my class got booted from the school. I think we only had two Article 15s the entire year long cycle. One chowderhead that failed to report for CQ duty, and another for underage drinking.

GreenMeat
Sep 2, 2002
slow mutant

For those currently in language training: Have there been any changes at DLI now that Sandusky's out and Pick is in as commandant?

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

Hagetaka posted:

Institutionalized special treatment, maybe?

I wish, I never seem to get any. Maybe I need to keep a bible in my office...

A Smoke Break
Feb 28, 2009

*snicker*


Slippery posted:

Officers are just like real people, man, only in some cases they have nicer cars and/or bigger houses.

Tell that to my cousin.. who, on leave, decides to browbash any enlisted individual: Currently in.. or otherwise.

She's been a Major for around 3-4 years now. Ugh.

Fart Sandwiches
Apr 3, 2006



redkillroy posted:

Tell that to my cousin.. who, on leave, decides to browbash any enlisted individual: Currently in.. or otherwise.

She's been a Major for around 3-4 years now. Ugh.

Is she in uniform or not? This is important because if there's someone not in my chain of command and out of uniform that tries to jump on me they can gently caress right off. If she's in uniform there's not much to do, but that's just rear end in a top hat behavior.

A Smoke Break
Feb 28, 2009

*snicker*


xwonderboyx posted:

Is she in uniform or not? This is important because if there's someone not in my chain of command and out of uniform that tries to jump on me they can gently caress right off. If she's in uniform there's not much to do, but that's just rear end in a top hat behavior.

Not in uniform.. but, the remainder of my cousins hate her like the loving plague.

She's... something else.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

427 TOTALLY LEGITIMATE, DEFENSIBLE NATIONAL TITLES AND COUNTING


Slippery posted:

I wish, I never seem to get any.

Come to TRADOC

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

redkillroy posted:

Tell that to my cousin.. who, on leave, decides to browbash any enlisted individual: Currently in.. or otherwise.

She's been a Major for around 3-4 years now. Ugh.

USAF? (not that she couldn't be, we have plenty o' tools in the AF, but I'm just curious)

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

Hagetaka posted:

Come to TRADOC

Several of my buddies went to Army Command and General Staff College (why, I'll never know), I'll have to ask them if Army O's always get the hook up.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




redkillroy posted:

Tell that to my cousin.. who, on leave, decides to browbash any enlisted individual: Currently in.. or otherwise.

She's been a Major for around 3-4 years now. Ugh.
I imagine you could probably tell her to gently caress off and get away with it. If she tries to push the issue I'm sure it would come out that she was harassing enlisted personnel outside of her chain of command in public.

A Smoke Break
Feb 28, 2009

*snicker*


Slippery posted:

USAF? (not that she couldn't be, we have plenty o' tools in the AF, but I'm just curious)

Army.

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

redkillroy posted:

Army.

That sucks. But how does she know who's former enlisted, and why do they put up with even talking to her? I mean you said 'currently in or otherwise' so if they are civilians why not just tell her to gently caress off? (Or even if currently in, just walk away, how's she gonna ever find them again unless they are in uniform)

StabbyRipStabStab
Nov 4, 2009

I got the internet going nuts.

I'd tell her to gently caress right off.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

427 TOTALLY LEGITIMATE, DEFENSIBLE NATIONAL TITLES AND COUNTING


Post her AKO

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

Hagetaka posted:

Post her AKO

The Army officer goon-revenge equivalent of 'post a picture of her house'

Hobo de los Muertos
Aug 18, 2006


I have never understood why some people are punished severely for petty offenses while other more serious crimes result in a few days of restriction and a slap on the wrist.

Around October of last year, a seaman was found to be drinking underage at the PX after he was caught urinating on a dumpster. Lucky for him, he was a great student in the Russian course. The entire thing got swept under the rug. About a month and a half later, a command wide wiz quiz was held. Guess who didn't pass?

He was one of the 13 sailors mastered for peeing hot. This is the same ex-sailor who is now engaged to a female sailor who cheated on him while he was on restriction. The same girl who is widely regarded to have passed that piss test through a miracle, as she had been an active member of the same group as the 13 sailors that were masted.

Yeah, that's DLI.

Edit: Edited my post to avoid arguing off topic.

Hobo de los Muertos fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 28, 2010

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

Hobo de los Muertos posted:

Are you currently at or have you ever attended DLI? This isn't just my experience. It is pretty common knowledge that officers generally get pushed through DLI courses and through graduation regardless of their actual ability.

Nah, I never been within a hundred miles of that place. It's too bad if that's what's happening, and since i'm not there I guess I don't know. There's just a lot of 'O's get hook ups" comments and I always try to figure out WHY, that is, why anyone would hook them up. Usually it's because they have influence (i.e. a general's kid) or maybe a pilot is looking out for a pilot etc. but I can't see why DLI leadership would let substandard O's become grads, but maybe there are reasons beyond my understanding. (You'd think they would not do so because if lovely Os come from there it will hurt the school, but whatever.)

hammeredspace
Jun 22, 2008
I produce infinite faggotry

Well it's one thing to graduate from the school there; graduating and passing the DLPT5 is another matter entirely and frankly the only one that matters. You can step on your dick on the DLPT5 and still be a straight-A warrior poet.

You can weasel out an associate's degree in the language you studied, if that's your thing. If the computer course I took back in college wasn't obsolete I could have just handed them a transcript and got one stamped out in front of me.

A Smoke Break
Feb 28, 2009

*snicker*


Slippery posted:

That sucks. But how does she know who's former enlisted, and why do they put up with even talking to her? I mean you said 'currently in or otherwise' so if they are civilians why not just tell her to gently caress off? (Or even if currently in, just walk away, how's she gonna ever find them again unless they are in uniform)

Referring to my earlier post:

Her criticisms of enlisted men/women within her job, ragging on a best friend and former marine, and general dislike for me joining the navy (based on branch).

Apparently, she does the same when deployed. Regardless, she's a swarmy oval office.

GetHardHero
Apr 15, 2007

I am gun down your faces


In regards to Os getting preferential treatment at the DLI what it really boils down to is the MLI (military language instructor). The MLI is the liaison between the teachers and your unit. He also handles the roll packages and refers you to your unit for an academic review board. In most cases the MLI is an NCO usually E5 or E6. It seems in certain cases the MLI doesn't feel as comfortable putting a roll or drop package in for an officer as opposed to some kid E2 who is fresh out of boot. I know in my class our MLI calls us children, does the whole "I am training you, I am above you, you will listen to me and respect my rank" bit. He out ranks us and despite there being an E6 in our class he still has positional authority and flexes it. I am cool with it this is the military after all. However our sister class has an Army Captain in it and their class is run very different. They do self study and are spared from his speeches and threats. Now is it because the Captain goes to bat for them or is it because the Marines in my class act like they are 15?

hammeredspace posted:

You can weasel out an associate's degree in the language you studied, if that's your thing. If the computer course I took back in college wasn't obsolete I could have just handed them a transcript and got one stamped out in front of me.

Take the CLEP get the degree, I doubt it is too late.

Dirk Digglet
Aug 16, 2009

When I close my eyes, I see this thing, a sign, I see this name in bright blue neon lights with a purple outline

GreenMeat posted:

For those currently in language training: Have there been any changes at DLI now that Sandusky's out and Pick is in as commandant?

No. Well the DFACs are now open for 1 hour instead of 90 minutes. He might have had a hand in that.

ElHuevoGrande
May 21, 2006

Oh. . .

Slippery posted:

Nah, I never been within a hundred miles of that place. It's too bad if that's what's happening, and since i'm not there I guess I don't know. There's just a lot of 'O's get hook ups" comments and I always try to figure out WHY, that is, why anyone would hook them up.

You're in luck! When I was there (2005-2007) I asked "Why do the O's get hookups?" and I actually got a straight answer.

O's who aren't FAOs go to DLI for billet specific language requirements. requirements that are often times much less stringent than those for enlisted linguists. Given that the officers tend to be sent rather begrudgingly to language training, (due to cost) the emphasis is on getting them finished and doing their next job, rather than proficient by DLI standards. So when the military leadership is presented with a choice of whether to pull an officer who sucks at the language, or push him through with tutoring, they tend to come down strongly on one side.

Why do the civ teachers cut O's slack? Most of these people come from rather authoritarian cultures, and are no poo poo impressed by the shiny bars. They're human beings, and suceptible to things like that.

Slippery
May 16, 2004




Muscles Boxcar

ElHuevoGrande posted:

You're in luck! When I was there (2005-2007) I asked "Why do the O's get hookups?" and I actually got a straight answer.

O's who aren't FAOs go to DLI for billet specific language requirements. requirements that are often times much less stringent than those for enlisted linguists. Given that the officers tend to be sent rather begrudgingly to language training, (due to cost) the emphasis is on getting them finished and doing their next job, rather than proficient by DLI standards. So when the military leadership is presented with a choice of whether to pull an officer who sucks at the language, or push him through with tutoring, they tend to come down strongly on one side.

Why do the civ teachers cut O's slack? Most of these people come from rather authoritarian cultures, and are no poo poo impressed by the shiny bars. They're human beings, and suceptible to things like that.

Huh, well, that makes sense to me. Interesting, thanks for the info.

GetHardHero
Apr 15, 2007

I am gun down your faces


ElHuevoGrande posted:

You're in luck! When I was there (2005-2007) I asked "Why do the O's get hookups?" and I actually got a straight answer.

O's who aren't FAOs go to DLI for billet specific language requirements. requirements that are often times much less stringent than those for enlisted linguists. Given that the officers tend to be sent rather begrudgingly to language training, (due to cost) the emphasis is on getting them finished and doing their next job, rather than proficient by DLI standards. So when the military leadership is presented with a choice of whether to pull an officer who sucks at the language, or push him through with tutoring, they tend to come down strongly on one side.

Why do the civ teachers cut O's slack? Most of these people come from rather authoritarian cultures, and are no poo poo impressed by the shiny bars. They're human beings, and suceptible to things like that.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003



College Slice

That was a fun page and a half. Now can we get pack to picking on furries and LARPers at DLI?

GetHardHero
Apr 15, 2007

I am gun down your faces


I should be asleep, I want to be dead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_e37gbhtAw

Also Hitler takes the DLPT V
http://vimeo.com/11187137

GetHardHero fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jun 28, 2010

hammeredspace
Jun 22, 2008
I produce infinite faggotry

GetHardHero posted:

Take the CLEP get the degree, I doubt it is too late.

The CLEP for the computer course is some amazingly obtuse and obsolete poo poo. It kind of makes me wonder how the rest of the study material is for other subjects if I have to study how to use loving punch cards and explain the marvelous new advancement in computer systems called a - get this - "graphical user interface." Gooey, they call it!

GetHardHero posted:

Also Hitler takes the DLPT V
http://vimeo.com/11187137

I already know what this is and I really don't want to click but god drat it I have to know if they were actually clever at all in this one.

edit: i snickered a couple of times

hammeredspace fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jun 28, 2010

Sarkazm
Sep 26, 2008

Not your father's Sarkazmobile.


Good God... I've never dealt with DLI at all, but anyplace that makes the ASW base in San Diego look normal has got to be one hosed up den of crazy.

Time Crisis Actor
Apr 28, 2002


I sexually identify as a fat tinder girl,

Yeah lemme just clean my pannus first.

These candles smell amazing btw


Sarkazm posted:

Good God... I've never dealt with DLI at all, but anyplace that makes the ASW base in San Diego look normal has got to be one hosed up den of crazy.

Point Loma? I never really heard anything bad about that place. Granted, the only reason I went there was to go to the chow hall, but everyone seemed okay.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



ElHuevoGrande posted:

You're in luck! When I was there (2005-2007) I asked "Why do the O's get hookups?" and I actually got a straight answer.

O's who aren't FAOs go to DLI for billet specific language requirements. requirements that are often times much less stringent than those for enlisted linguists. Given that the officers tend to be sent rather begrudgingly to language training, (due to cost) the emphasis is on getting them finished and doing their next job, rather than proficient by DLI standards. So when the military leadership is presented with a choice of whether to pull an officer who sucks at the language, or push him through with tutoring, they tend to come down strongly on one side.

Why do the civ teachers cut O's slack? Most of these people come from rather authoritarian cultures, and are no poo poo impressed by the shiny bars. They're human beings, and suceptible to things like that.

I'll just put in my two cents on this, since it's more accurate than alot of people will think. I'm in DLI for an exchange slot with the German Navy, and yes, passing the DLPT is moot for my billet. Whether I pass or not, I'm still going over there. I just won't get the extra pay for billet relevant language proficiency. Doesn't mean me and the other O's in the class aren't trying their hardest, though. In fact, we had an Army Captain bumped for failing three tests in a row, and he lost his next gig, so we're not all exempt.

Though....I'm not so sure about authoritarian culture aspect. The German instructors certainly don't hide their discontent when we gently caress stuff up. Though, in regards to our MLI, we've seen him maybe once in the last 4 months. He doesn't even come close to our class, anymore. In fact, whenever unfair or retarded poo poo comes down, our AF Master Sergeant doesn't hesitate to go down and brow beat him. It's kind of funny, because us O's don't really give a poo poo when they ask us to do a little something extra.

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jun 29, 2010

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


AlternateNu posted:

Though....I'm not so sure about authoritarian culture aspect. The German instructors certainly don't hide their discontent when we gently caress stuff up. Though, in regards to our MLI, we've seen him maybe once in the last 4 months. He doesn't even come close to our class, anymore. In fact, whenever unfair or retarded poo poo comes down, our AF Master Sergeant doesn't hesitate to go down and brow beat him. It's kind of funny, because us O's don't really give a poo poo when they ask us to do a little something extra.

Has anyone ever accidentally called someone a "grammar Nazi" or something similar in front of the teacher and had things get awkward?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Pompous Rhombus posted:

Has anyone ever accidentally called someone a "grammar Nazi" or something similar in front of the teacher and had things get awkward?

Nope....they're pretty open about it, actually. We have running jokes with the instructors about kicking the crap out of or stealing stuff from the French students. And, whenever we're successful in such endeavors, we declare we have "found our Belgium!". Though, early on some were making "Studieren Macht Frei" jokes, including an idea of making a huge sign and posting it above the "TO LARKIN" sign down the wooden walkway to the school but those didn't last very long.

Two of our instructors are over 70 years old and were born during and grew up in post WWII Germany. They always have interesting stories.

hammeredspace
Jun 22, 2008
I produce infinite faggotry

Whee sounds like a living loving hell; then again every aspect of DLI is a living loving hell. You just don't notice it as much when you're fresh outta basic training and hornier than a thorn bush and more scared than a [something that is very scared by nature goes here].

edit: I still wish I had the nuts to go officer; dunno if I'd be happier but uh I'd have more money. Maybe a different girlfriend.

Ya know to counter-act the whole "DESPERATE LOVE INSTITUTE" thing, my current girlfriend and I met back when I was still in Russian and hell loving yes we had our ups and downs but thank god we were smart enough to not get married or for me to knock her up. We're still together, still have really rough times, but as more time passes, we really know where we stand with each other, even thousands of miles apart as we are now. I still wonder how things would be different I had gone in officer, or if I went ahead with the OAR where I am now, but all told, and all things in consideration, she and I are pretty well off. Could it be better? You'll have to get a time machine and a what-if to find out.

hammeredspace fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 29, 2010

ElHuevoGrande
May 21, 2006

Oh. . .

hammeredspace posted:

Hell is other people.

Why do the most protracted tales of Byzantine woe always come from the Spanish linguists? Was it really that stressful? Could you not find that SAP button on the remote to make the Simpsons come out in Espanol?

You're my favorite NavGoon poster, but I don't get the angst.

hammeredspace
Jun 22, 2008
I produce infinite faggotry

ElHuevoGrande posted:

You're my favorite NavGoon poster, but I don't get the angst.

Holy poo poo I don't think I post often enough here, or post enough interesting poo poo be a favorite. Flattered, though!

I'm willing to bet that you and I went through the program at different times, with different people and different teachers and leadership. My particular concoction, alongside my own interpretation and interaction with my military leadership, more than likely shapes my perception of the program. As well as it would with anyone else. Which is why I refrain from telling people NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS HOW IT REALLY IS. All I have is my dumb opinion, and we all know how much that is worth.

Honestly my issues with the program was the overriding sentiment, deigned on us by the then-current Navy admin, that if I didn't succeed I'd be well and truly hosed. Nevermind that any attempt to enjoy myself would result in being utterly destroyed. The facts may have been and may be to this day the exact opposite, but I didn't want to poke the bear, so to speak.

All I know is this: I saw several people, of which I would call friends, get hosed by both the school faculty and by the Navy. And reasonably, anyone else would have given them second and third chances. But we don't do that in the military. I see good people get hosed by putting a toe out of line, which causes me to do anything short of cutting off my own toes.

I mean I've made it this far. Still seeing people where I work gently caress themselves over, and the worse part of it is they had good intentions. There's a reason people say: don't be first, don't be last, and don't volunteer yourself.

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ElHuevoGrande
May 21, 2006

Oh. . .

That's fair. I'm pretty damned good at Chinese, so my experience was mostly relaxed and a lot of fun. Also, everyone on my deck in the barracks was in an Asian language, so. . .different perspective. And I don't drink, so not a lot of pressure there.

I just reacted out of memories of bumping into Spanish students in the kitchen all "MY GOD! THE SPANISH! IT BURNS!" while I was on month 17 of 18, struggling to differentiate between 12 homonyms of the syllable "jie"

But I forgot about how Spanish can be the last chance for a lot of people, and how failure carries some pretty dire consequences above that of "no FLPP". Stressful.

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