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Edit 1/6/2011: It should be noted that that since this thread was created two years ago some stuff has changed in the P&S world.
Downsides of Point & Shoot Cameras
Things to Look For
Why You Shouldn't Give a gently caress About Megapixels This has been rehashed to death over the years, but realistically megapixels stopped mattering a long time ago. Given the quality of the lenses in P&S cameras you really won't notice an increase in sharpness between a 7 megapixel camera and a 12 megapixel camera and noise and low light performance typically get worse the smaller you make the pixels. Don't Use AUTO Almost all digital camera users put their camera on auto assuming it knows what's best for them. Sadly, this is the farthest thing from the case. Auto often won't allow you to control simple things like when to use the flash or what ISO you're shooting at which can be very important to the quality of your photo. Most cameras have a mode that chooses things like shutter speed and aperture for you, but allows you to control certain things such as ISO, flash, etc. Canon marks this as "P" on theirs, but other manufacturers may call it other things. Superzooms  Superzooms are a new market of P&S camera targeted towards people want something a little better than the standard 4x zoom lens. Cameras such as the Canon SX20 offer lenses able to zoom from 28mm to 560mm in 35mm terms. There are some significant optical trade offs with lenses that have this big of range, however so unless you can come up with a lot of situations where you need the range I'd suggest going for something smaller. Additionally cameras like the SX20 are just as hard to transport as a DSLR and almost the same price. The Canon S90  The S90 is by far the camera most recommended here due to a couple factors. It has larger sensor than many P&S cameras, a lens the starts at a very respectable F/2.0 for great low light performance, the ability to shoot RAW and a little ring around the lens that makes it easy to adjust settings on the fly. Another option is the SD4000 which is a smaller camera with many of the features the S90 has. It won't shoot RAW out of the box, but it will do HD video and captures low resolution slow motion video which could be cool to play around with. But the S90 is $350, is there anything good that's cheaper? The general rule of thumb is you should pick the Canon P&S that fits your budget. There are certainly features to be gained the more expensive you get, but ultimately they'll all take a good picture in good light. Many of them also have the ability to run the CHDK software linked to above which can add a ton of cool features. Let me know if anyone has anything to add to the OP. I know its really Canon focused, but that's all I've really used extensively. Please post your experiences with other brands/models if you have any to share. Edit 10/1/2010: I haven't had a chance to rewrite the original post completely, but it should be noted that the S90 has been replaced by the S95. The S95, while being a superior camera, does not have any huge advantages to the S90 so if you can get a really good deal on a S90 you'd still be getting a very great camera. BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jan 7, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2010 06:57
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The other high end P&S that comes up alot is the Panasonic LX3. I had both an LX3 and S90 at one time and ended up selling the LX3. The reasons were: LX3 did not fit in my jeans pocket, S90 does. The LX3 has a removable lens cap which was annoying to keep track of and made the camera even thicker, the S90 has an internal lens cap/shutter thingy. I don't need a hot shoe for my P&S and the S90 front ring is awesome to use. As far as cheaper point and shoots go, I agree with the "buy the canon P&S in your budget" suggestion. The most popular ones seem to be the SD1x00IS lineup. Right not the SD1200IS is $150, SD1300IS is $180, and the SD $1400IS is $220. These are your standard, go-to, simple pocket cameras. Average zoom range, decent image quality, your facebook uploads will look respectable. Their small size, relatively cheap price, decent performance, and tradition of durability give them their popularity. Another popular P&S line is the Panasonic ZS-x's. They are priced somewhere between the Canon SD1x00 line and the S90/LX3. They are popular because they have longer zooms than the previously mentioned Canon's. They're bigger but still fit in a pocket. They seem to be very popular for people looking for travel cameras.
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Jun 26, 2010 07:19
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I was just going to ask this question but with a qualifier. What's the general concencus on waterproof P&S cameras? I'm looking at either the Canon D10 or the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FT2, the canon seems alot bulkier and it dosen't seem to be supported by CHDK so that's an minus aswell. I have no experience with panasonic cameras so I'm kind of hoping someone here has. Are there any other models worth considering?
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Jun 26, 2010 12:44
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The problem with the LX3/G11/etc is that if it doesn't fit in a pocket, it's going to need a bag, and at that point an entry-level dSLR will offer order-of-magnitude better IQ at a very small weight/financial cost.
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Jun 26, 2010 21:34
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This has seemed pretty sexy to me: http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-WS80-Waterproof-Black-Orange/dp/B002KE48CK
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Jun 27, 2010 09:43
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No mention of the Sigma DP1/2? I just got a used DP1, it's kind of slow, both in aperture and handling, the DP2 is supposed to be faster though, f2.8 as opposed to the 4.0 of the DP1. The DP1 is still a nice camera though, both in specs and looks. And you can get one used pretty cheap. Nice wide lense, shoots RAW, no annoying digital zoom, no reduntant face recognition, no 400 different programs (just auto A P M, sound and movie), no posterize, invert or other lovely looking image processing built in. Just a... clean working camera, you should probably get a DP2 if you can afford it though, i see the possibility that the slowness of the DP1 could be too much for some users. I shoot almost exclusively film with SLR otherwise and the DP-series and it's aimed at people who already know the basics of photography so that's why I like it/some people would hate it. I guess is kind of a photographers-compact (i wouldn't say it's a P&S) as opposed to the I WANNA TAKE PICTURES OF MY WIFE AND KIDS AND FISHING BUDDIES-crowd of compacts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_DP1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_DP2 http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sigma%20dp1&w=all  Click here for the full 1280x794 image. Fuzzy Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jun 27, 2010 |
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Jun 27, 2010 09:58
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Fuzzy Cosmonaut posted:No mention of the Sigma DP1/2? Definitely a compact for the SLR enthusiast crowd... http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-DP2-FOVEON-Sensor-Digital/dp/B001W3429E $570.95 new. wow. No bullshit like face recognition, just great pictures
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Jun 27, 2010 11:09
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Is there a point to those Sigmas now that the E-P1, GF1 etc are out? It seems to me like an E-PL1 or a used E-P1 with a pancake lens is around the same price, same size and a heck of a lot more useful.
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Jun 27, 2010 17:39
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I don't know really, I myself didn't need interchangeable lenses and couldn't afford an EP1 (and also i hate olympus). My guess is if you google EP1 and DP1 together you'd get some comparisons and 200 threads of pixel peeping on the subject to read. The DP1-lense folds out btw.
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Jun 27, 2010 18:03
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guidoanselmi posted:This has seemed pretty sexy to me: Why the WS model? The W80 seems to be more on par with the models I've posted, and is now one of the cameras I'm trying to decide between. I need to go take a look at what the canon really feels like and looks like in my hand, but I'm pretty sure that I won't be investing in that one. So either the lumix or pentax, any and alla comments are welcome.
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Jun 27, 2010 21:00
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Oh god this thread reminded me that I haven't seen my S90 around lately and now I can't find it anywhere  Edit: Found it in a bag, thank god. Carry on. Greybone fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jun 29, 2010 |
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Jun 27, 2010 23:38
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Eldoran posted:I was just going to ask this question but with a qualifier. The D10 is the best waterproof I know of and is supposed to be decent as point-and-shoots go. In general, I've been pretty impressed by Panasonic's electronics, so while I don't know anything about the FT2, I would suspect it's at least decent and would try to test one out locally if I knew of a shop that carried it.
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Jun 28, 2010 00:20
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Bob Socko posted:As I understand it, they're generally not as good as their non-water-resistant counterparts. That being said, they're still good enough for some quick vacation shots and hey, a bad underwater picture is still better than no underwater picture. My friend has whatever the new Olympus one is and it seems actually pretty good. We use it a lot when skiing and at the beach and it holds up really well. We know its not going to be taking the most beautiful of pictures but you can take it in many situations to get some fun/interesting shots without worrying about breaking it. This thing is near indestructable. Although wear the drat wrist band always. No idea how poo poo it is to try and find the camera under the waves at the beach.
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Jun 28, 2010 11:56
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Ended up buying the D10, the battery is loading and I'll have some test shots for you from the pool by this time tomorow. I completley forgot a friend of my wife reviews cameras for a living, so I ended up calling her in the shop and she convinced me the D10 was the way to go. Thanks for the help anyhows.
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Jun 28, 2010 21:29
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I think the OP is a bit harsh about using auto mode. Cameras are getting better and better all the time at figuring out reasonable settings. I agree that auto mode used to suck badly a few years ago but it has evolved to the point where if you're out and about and the light is okay, auto isn't a bad option.
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Jun 29, 2010 01:19
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Sampleshots with D10 as promised, theese have no artistic merit whatsoever: Fullsize abovewater Fullsize underwater To be honest, it's good enough for what I'm intending to use it for so I'm happy.
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Jun 29, 2010 13:03
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Eldoran posted:Sampleshots with D10 as promised, theese have no artistic merit whatsoever: There's actually something about the above water photo that I really like, artistically speaking. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it gives me a retro vibe for some reason. Either way, thanks for posting them. I really would have loved to have a D10 when I went to Maui last year. HPL posted:I think the OP is a bit harsh about using auto mode. Cameras are getting better and better all the time at figuring out reasonable settings. I agree that auto mode used to suck badly a few years ago but it has evolved to the point where if you're out and about and the light is okay, auto isn't a bad option. Fair enough. I honestly haven't used a P&S newer then my wife's Powershot A570IS so my knowledge is a little outdated. The main things that infuriated me with the auto modes have been the inability to control turning off the flash or to control the ISO settings. If they've changed those things it would do a lot to making a better auto mode (although it'd be the same as P mode on the cameras I've used). BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 29, 2010 |
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Jun 29, 2010 17:38
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I still have my Fuji Finepix Z10 and it's great. Manual settings take a little time to get through but it still runs pretty well after all this time.
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Jun 29, 2010 18:54
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BeastOfExmoor posted:Fair enough. I honestly haven't used a P&S newer then my wife's Powershot A570IS so my knowledge is a little outdated. The main things that infuriated me with the auto modes have been the inability to control turning off the flash or to control the ISO settings. Just about every newer P&S I've used lately has at least an option to not use flash in full auto mode.
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Jun 29, 2010 18:56
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My first real irritation with the S90 (apart from the extra large button on the top to select the ring function and the too-light back wheel) If you use the ring to select focal length, it doesn't work for a couple of seconds after you take a photo. e.g. take a pic, review it and realise that you could have gone in closer, so you spin the wheel a couple of clicks and it does nothing. Even after the camera has switched from review mode, back to picture-taking mode, the ring doesn't have any effect for the first 1-2 seconds. It is surprisingly annoying. On the plus side, I just haven't needed to take it out of auto yet. It seems to handle an awful lot of lighting situations very well.
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Jun 30, 2010 01:07
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Thinking of getting this for the S90 and the little grip. Though I only use a polarizing filter so I'm not sure if this will get used that often? Now I wish there was a viewfinder and I'd be set.  RN-9 Adapter
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Jun 30, 2010 02:21
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Fiannaiocht posted:Thinking of getting this for the S90 and the little grip. Though I only use a polarizing filter so I'm not sure if this will get used that often? Now I wish there was a viewfinder and I'd be set. If the S90 does not have an internal filter to remove infared light you could buy an IR filter and take sweet infared photographs. I searched a bit, but couldn't find anything saying if the S90 had an internal IR filter one way or another.
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Jun 30, 2010 17:24
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I've got a friend ignoring my suggestion (S90) and looking hard at getting the Canon SX20, because that's what's in stock at the moment. It's got a monster zoom range, but like the OP pointed out it sounds kinda like a jack of all trades, master of none. Is this a camera I should tell her to steer clear of, or will it be fine for the average consumer who doesn't know poo poo about photography, but wants to learn a little?
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Jul 2, 2010 17:01
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jackpot posted:I've got a friend ignoring my suggestion (S90) and looking hard at getting the Canon SX20, because that's what's in stock at the moment. It's got a monster zoom range, but like the OP pointed out it sounds kinda like a jack of all trades, master of none. Is this a camera I should tell her to steer clear of, or will it be fine for the average consumer who doesn't know poo poo about photography, but wants to learn a little? I don't know, sometimes I feel like the photography community loves to poo poo on superzooms a little too much. While a 10x zoom lens might be an unwise purchase for an enthusiast DSLR user, for someone who just wants a camera that can 'do it all' it could very well be a worthwhile purchase. I used a Canon SX100 before I really got 'into' photography, and for a $200 camera the image quality was more than acceptable at any giver focal length.
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Jul 3, 2010 01:42
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I think as long as you plan on using it during the day, it'll be fine for 90% of people. It's when the sun goes down that she'll be stuck with the lovely flash where the s90 gives you more to work with as far as low light goes. If she's never used anything better than a cheap p&s, she won't know what she's missing. The high end p&s's are for people with dlsrs who are used to better low/ambient light.
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Jul 3, 2010 02:03
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BeastOfExmoor posted:If the S90 does not have an internal filter to remove infared light you could buy an IR filter and take sweet infared photographs. I searched a bit, but couldn't find anything saying if the S90 had an internal IR filter one way or another. All digital cameras have IR filters on them by default. Both CCD and CMOS sensors are just way too sensitive to IR.
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Jul 3, 2010 02:40
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The main issues with the SX20 are sheer size and poor battery life (on 4 AAs so its inconvenient to carry more than one set of spares) The EVF is actually pretty decent to use nowdays, they've improved a lot lately.
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Jul 4, 2010 17:08
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The big problem with a bridge camera is simply the size. They make true compacts these days with a great zoom range, she should look into those. Unless she's got an event coming up she'd need the camera for, there's no reason to get whatever's in stock instead of what's appropriate.
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Jul 5, 2010 08:36
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I've finally been looking to upgrade my ancient digital camera (Sony DSC-S85 4MP camera) and I'm having a bit of trouble making a decision, so perhaps you all might be able to offer some insight. Best Buy was the first place I just browsed around, and I looked at the Sony Cybershot W350 and H55, the Canon Powershot SD1300 and 1400, and the Panasonic Lumix ZS5. The ZX5 was suggested to me as the super badass P&S. Sony has that sweep panorama thing, which is cool but not a deal-maker, and I think the Canon's had something, but according to the guy there the Lumix had the largest image sensor and lens, so I figured the quality would be better. However, looking at reviews online, it seems the universal complaint (although still there are an overwhelming number of positive reviews that say the opposite) is image quality. Some people say it's absolutely unacceptable and return the camera. I'm just wondering if these people are expecting a DSLR and are too picky, or is it really that bad? A few reviews say ALL the auto modes are ABSOLUTELY useless, forcing you to manually adjust everything every single time lighting conditions change. Any idea how true that might be? Another weird thing I noticed while playing with it in the store again yesterday was the time it took to save pictures. The Sony and Canon cameras were all pretty quick, maybe a second or two. The Lumix took about 12-15 seconds. Now, this was on internal memory, and I was told having an actual flash card in there would speed it up, but why were the others THAT much faster without a card? If a card would help, I see that memory cards now (I'm still trucking along with first gen Memory Sticks) have speed ratings, I guess 10 being the highest? Would a normal card in general fix this data saving problem, or would I need to get something like a 6 or a 10? I'm certainly no professional photographer, but I would like to be able to take decent photos, even if for nothing else to throw on Facebook. Speed would be my next important priority, and a decent video mode would be great as well (that's gotten a TON of use on my old camera). Any suggestions or information you all could provide would be very appreciated.
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Jul 5, 2010 20:05
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The Canon probably did have a card in (none of mine have had any internal memory for saving pictures), maybe the Sonys too. I don't think you'd need a very fast card for a point and shoot, unless maybe it needs it for the HD video mode. BTW my old man has a DMC-ZS3 (similar to the ZS5) and is very happy with it. I don't think you NEED to mess with the auto modes, but if you know what you're doing you can definitely improve by altering settings manually.
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Jul 5, 2010 20:54
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mathaeis posted:Another weird thing I noticed while playing with it in the store again yesterday was the time it took to save pictures. The Sony and Canon cameras were all pretty quick, maybe a second or two. The Lumix took about 12-15 seconds. Now, this was on internal memory, and I was told having an actual flash card in there would speed it up, but why were the others THAT much faster without a card? If a card would help, I see that memory cards now (I'm still trucking along with first gen Memory Sticks) have speed ratings, I guess 10 being the highest? Would a normal card in general fix this data saving problem, or would I need to get something like a 6 or a 10? Always read dpreview.com (it's the best source of info) http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q210grouptravelzoom/page9.asp It should take 2.5 seconds between shots, including focussing. Possibly that Lumix was set to RAW mode - or it was just busted. And the speed of a memory card rarely has any effect on shooting speed. Possibly some cameras might require a card of a certain speed when shooting HD video -but I am sure the review would mention it. otherwise, just buy a bog-standard card with a decent brand. spog fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 6, 2010 |
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Jul 6, 2010 01:39
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spog posted:just buy a bog-standard card with a decent brand. Be aware that a lot of brand name cards you'll find online are actually counterfeits and may not even be the advertised capacity let alone brand or speed.
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Jul 6, 2010 08:51
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spog posted:Always read dpreview.com (it's the best source of info) I checked back at the store yesterday, and it seemed to be shooting perfectly fast for whatever reason. Perhaps they put a card in it. Either way, I spoke with a different employee and she sort of trash-talked the ZS5 (but also said that everyone that bought it loved it?) and suggested the Canon Powershot SX210 (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-SX210IS-Stabilized-Black/dp/B0035FZJM6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278440502&sr=8-1). The colors were definitely more vibrant on the Canon (although strangely more so on the lower-end models like the SD1300), and the difference in clarity was incredible. Of course, all the online reviews seem to be completely polarized just like the previous cameras I looked at, haha. Thanks for the link, though - I'll definitely check that out and hopefully come to a nice conclusion.
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Jul 6, 2010 19:48
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In addition to the compact zooms, DPR posted their superzoom review: http://dpreview.com/reviews/Q110superzoomgroup/
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Jul 6, 2010 22:53
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tonelok posted:In addition to the compact zooms, DPR posted their superzoom review: Some of those cameras are horrible. They're about the same size as a Rebel. What's the point? Even a Rebel XTi + 18-200 would be better, but I guess those superzooms are cheaper than that combo.
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Jul 7, 2010 01:06
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You answered your own question - getting out past 500mm and tossing in 720p video for under $350.
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Jul 7, 2010 04:55
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It's kinda funny that the Nikon P100 has 1080p, when none of their DSLRs go above 720p. Conversely the Canon SX20 IS, unlike all their DSLRs, is 720p.
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Jul 7, 2010 23:02
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Superzooms satisfy the uninformed market demographic whose mostly only consider max focal length and megapixel count.
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Jul 7, 2010 23:11
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I'm not sure if you can still get this model anywhere, but I have the Panasonic DMZ-FZ50. It is a super-zoom with a lot of nice features. Shoots RAW A **MANUAL FOCUS RING** and a decent digital simulation of a focusing screen Pretty good video Fully Tilt-able LCD in my experience- pretty rugged and durable (used a lot in dusty sub-freezing temps, thrown in a backpack, etc). Handles like an SLR and not like a pack of cards Did I say Manual Focus Ring? Cons relatively slow autofocus, hunts around sometimes pics can be noisy, especially when zoomed in and/or cropping. flash not the best (tends to blow things out) when I bought it, it was definitely one of the more expensive super-zooms out there. If you don't expect a DSLR, this is a pretty great camera. I'll be taking this with me on a trip to South America so I can get wildlife and scenic shots without worrying about multiple lenses and a more expensive DSLR body.
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Jul 8, 2010 02:01
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How would you rate the S90's video mode? I see a lot of 'poors' out there, but I'm guessing that's because it only shoots at 640x480 perhaps, and nothing to do with its actual quality. Any insight? Is there something comparable to the S90 that also shoots in nice quality HD (regardless of price)?
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Jul 8, 2010 09:20
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