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bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

What is a 'read'? What does a Quarterback actually do when he 'reads' a DE (for example)? Do passing plays generally have the reads built into them?

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bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Sash! posted:

I was curious if maybe the spacing of them added with their number made the seemingly random 160 feet make sense. Like if there were 20 of them spaced out at eight yards, because you'd get 10 on each side of the centerline of the field but that still wouldn't explain why they picked eight feet to space them out.

10 grids of 5 yards each = 50 yards = 150 feet

2 sideline grids of 5 feet each = 10 feet

Booya

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Dominion posted:

That plus Lucas Oil Stadium is known to have a very fast running track, which inflates (or deflates, I guess) everyone's 40 stats and makes them look better.

I'd heard it was considered slow but now I can't remember where hrm.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

I would like to know about linebackers.

1. I get that the MLB runs the show. What do strongside and weakside backers do in the 4-3? Is one more likely to blitz than the other? Obviously there are different systems, but give me an outline.

2. Are there standard roles for the middle guys in the 3-4? Do they tend to do the same stuff?

3. I know one 3-4 outside backer is usually a pass rush specialist. What does the other do?

Sorry if these are dumb questions...

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Thanks chaps, that makes things much clearer.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Who or what is an Elephant?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Why do you think Fullback is dying? Is it because defensive ends got quicker, or more 3-4 receiver formations, or anything like that?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

McKracken posted:



That was a great answer, thanks

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

They accomplish the same thing, it's just a different way to do it.

Which is..?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

I don't watch much college ball, is the three-back pistol type offense Auburn is running an innovation, or is it considered a variation on something? What is that?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

drunk leprechaun posted:



As far as it being an innovation again I honestly can't say since I haven't watched much Auburn, but I doubt it is that different from what Nevada does.


Thanks a lot for this. If I'm remembering right Auburn ran a lot of plays that looked like this:


code:

WR      OL OL OL OL OL     WR

                 
                 FB 
        RB1   QB 

                 RB2


where RB1 would run a jet sweep right and RB2 would run between the tackles, sort of like the wildcat. The fullback was directly in front of the RB2 to the quarterback's right and would lead block or take playaction up the middle. That look familiar? It's not exactly what Wikipedia shows for the pistol, looks kind of like a pistol/wildcat hybrid to me. It looked cool anyway.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

jeffersonlives posted:

This is basically the ski-gun formation. It's a flexbone at pistol depths. Popped up a few years ago at the HS/small college level, and Georgia Tech (which runs a lot of the conventional flexbone) has been messing around with it.

Ace, thanks. Do you think this sort of multi-back set could gain popularity in the NFL what with the rise of running back-by-committee and the hybrid slot-RB guys? Seems like a good way to involve multiple backs and take the weight off your workhorse guy.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Sash! posted:

See, I'm at the other end where I want to see someone line up in the Maryland I, Power I, and Delaware Wing-T.

Also Flexbone and some options geez would it kill someone to actually run an option play :(

Deangelo scored from 70 yards on one last week. But you're right, option, ski-gun, flexbone, wishbone and the Modified T Square all need to see more NFL use.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Grittybeard posted:

I've heard this given as an argument that Derrick Thomas was a better pash rusher than LT. LT had people learning how to deal with the insane speed rush while he was playing, DT played against schemes that were specifically made for a guy like him.

It's likely partially bullshit and partially true and doesn't particularly matter at this point anyway--I heard this a lot back when Thomas wasn't in the hall and the theoretical reason was because he was a lot like Taylor without being him. But it's kind of interesting to think about in any case.

Whuh? LT had an entire position reinvented to try and counteract him.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Detective Thompson posted:

So how come Gronk wasn't credited with three touchdowns? I understand how it wasn't a pass, and therefore Brady didn't get a TD credit on that one, but Gronkowski still ran it in. So why is he only getting 2 TDs on the game? And how is that TD attributed then?

The third one counted as run, Gronk got credit for it.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Sleepy Beef posted:

Yeah I see exactly what you mean by that video except in that video the LB actually does blitz and it's an end that backs off into coverage (same difference really). I have no idea to tell if your explanation is correct or not but that seems like even if there are other factors, that would be a significant problem in itself.

That's exactly what zone blitz means. Back 7 player blitzes, lineman drops into coverage in his spot.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Its Miller Time posted:

Can we go into 4-3 and 3-4 a little more? Which positions remain relatively the same when you change, and which are very scheme specific? Obviously there's no NT in a 4-3, but how about say the mike? How different is it when you have two mikes?

Or 4-3 DE's vs. 3-4 DE's. 4-3's are harder to find because they do more rushing than occupying? You rely more on OLB's rushing in a 3-4?

Someone else can do this much better than me, but you often do have a 'nose tackle' in a 4-3 over the centre-guard and tries to eat blockers and take up space while the Under Tackle tries to bust through a single gap and hit the runner/quarterback.

3-4 DEs are usually much more like 4-3 Defensive Tackles than 4-3 ends. Often they have two-gap responsibility, so instead of all-out rushing the passer they have tohold their ground and make sure a runner doesn't get by on either side. Ideally a 3-4 DE will be the size of a small defensive tackle, so like 300 pounds. A 4-3 Defensive end can be much more aggressive in pass-rushing and shooting through holes, so he'll be lighter and smaller. (Like 270-280lbs).

4-3 Linebackers I get lost on but there's usually one 'Elephant' pass-rushing specialist who's like a smaller, faster 4-3 End, and one 'Thumper' inside linebacker who's a big run-stopper. The other inside linebacker is the Mike, with the play calling responsiblities and stuff.

E - and good 4-3 ends are hard to find because good pass rushers are hard to find. You often need just crazy size/explosive speed/athleticism combinations (see Peppers, J.)

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Incoherence posted:

It's sort of uncommon for a player to actually kneel on a sure touchdown, both because it's difficult to think about it in the heat of the moment and because, as Bradshaw discovered, you have to realize it a few yards in advance (and not have any of the defenders realize what you're doing and push you in, which one of the Patriots linebackers was circling around to do). I think it came up in one of the NCAA GDTs this year on a pick-six, where the technically correct play was to fall down with the ball instead of running it back, but good luck actually getting that to happen, especially because there's no chance that you could have talked about that situation in the huddle (unlike this situation).

Example of doing this successfully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrRTYbVmpU
Eagles up by 4 with the ball, a little over 2 minutes left, Cowboys out of timeouts. Westbrook breaks a long run, and (correctly) realizes that he should just fall down at the 1. If he scores, the Cowboys get the ball back with a little over 2 minutes and a (remote) chance to score, onside kick, and score again. If he doesn't, the Eagles kneel it 3 times and the game is over.

Ballsier still was this one, because his team wasn't in the lead yet:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81439a43/Jones-Drew-takes-a-knee

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Reminder that Belichick benched Wes Welker for the first drive in an actual playoff game that they went on to lose, for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCb17psf8A

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

McKracken posted:

Maybe he joins an awesome league with cool dudes who read FO every day and don't believe in clutch either :colbert:

I think NFL players or coaches are the only people who can troll FF guys, but even that's 99.9% unintentional.

Everyone knows this is what Shanahan's been doing since everyone figured out he got lucky with Elway and can't really coach worth a poo poo

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

NFL coverage is so much tighter than college that you can't get away with inaccurate passing or a slow wind-up that telegraphs what you're doing. And the league is so skewed in favour of passing that a running quarterback isn't going to help you much, especially given the defenses are faster and qbs are so expensive you don't really want them getting hit on a regular basis.

For similar reasons, Denard Robinson will never be an nfl quarterback, awesome as he is.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Hockles posted:

The NHL draft made me remember a question I had a couple weeks ago:

Is there anything against an NFL drafting the rights to a high school player? I know there is the "3 year removed from high school" rule, but besides being stupid and a waste of a pick, is there a reason a team couldn't do that?

Yeah it's not allowed.

e - you have to declare for the draft to be eligible and you have to be three years out of high school to declare for the draft.

ee - also as I recall if you get drafted by a team but don't sign with them you can re-enter the draft the next year and the first team has no rights over you, a la Bo Jackson

bigfoot again fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jun 23, 2012

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Rap posted:

I follow several Broncos/general Denver news people on Twitter. THey're all pretty terrible

Cecil Lammey is ok. He's a fantasy guy but he does cover denver properly and doesn't tend to make poo poo up

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

You can't win on a field goal if the other team hasn't touched the ball. Some people were getting upset because they felt like games were being decided on a coin toss because you only have to go like 30 yards. That's it. You are entitled to think it's stupid.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

SteelAngel2000 posted:

Because one time Peyton Manning lost a playoff game in OT without touching the ball, basically

You mean Brett Favre :colbert:

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

jeffersonlives posted:

Most teams in this case either launch the ball on an intentionally overthrown go route or snap it to their punter and have him run around and take a knee when the clock runs out.

Or have Blackmon sprint forty yards out the back of his own endzone for a safety, if you're more than two points up

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Just reading TFF threads I have to admit that college football seems a lot cooler and has a lot more culture around it than NFL. Also you have all those crazy guys in the south whose life has been college football since back when the nearest NFL teams were Dallas and Washington. That whole southern element seems to add a lot of vibrancy to the CFB world

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

I would I know a stretch play if I saw one?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Trin Tragula posted:

Since sports drinks have been a thing, the market's been pretty much cornered by Lucozade, and they basically had 20 years to establish themselves before Coke and Pepsi waded in; they've got enough sales to make it worthwhile, but Lucozade's still got something like 60-70% of the market. It's quite amusing when you consider that this is the combined marketing forces of Coke and Pepsi we're talking about.



Less surprising when you realise Lucozade has the power of GSK behind it

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Grittybeard posted:

I'll let a Bears fan handle the current/more recent team, but I'll throw this in. You probably already know a little about him but since you didn't specifically name him my advice is to look up Walter Payton. Here's his NFL films top 100 thing. He was plenty fast and plenty shifty, but holy crap was he vicious too. There are plenty of guys who run over people that break down after a few years but Sweetness just didn't break down. This video isn't specifically about him, it's about the stiffarm in general. But it's still one of my favorite Payton bits, just because you watch everyone else and think 'wow' but then you get to Payton and think :aaa:


Well yeah because he used his elbow :colbert:

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

MonsterUnderYourBed posted:

Why, when getting corraled behind the line of scrimmage, do QBs take the sack rather than toss to the sidelines to reset? Is it the risk of the defence knocking the ball before he gets his arm forward and causing the fumble behind the offensive line?

^^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_grounding


THIS is how you take a safety

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTL9CMZJeE

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Even with a nice rugby ball dropkicks are a lot less accurate than placekicks because moving ball vs stationary ball.

There also aren't many possible circumstances in American football where a dropkick would be useful. Surprise field goal! Field goals never get blocked so why would you. I guess if you were to try a two point conversion, see that nobody was open, and then drop a goal that would be cool. Or if there was a bad snap and the kicker had to do something on the spot. But either case would mean doing a dropkick in the face of a pass rush and that's, uh, not a good idea.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Blackula69 posted:

North Dallas forty. A few bricks shy of a load.vthere's a bunch and most of them are great, including the Blind Side

Blind Side doesn't do what he's asking. Next Man Up follows the Ravens for a season but it felt pretty sanitised to me, for obvious reasons.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Speaking of Patriots, have a whole lot of bad teams improved after a major uniform change or am I just being confirmation bias?

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Rams, Pats, Bucs, Broncos (and Browns if you want to be mean) are the obvious ones, but I seem to remember Atlanta getting better after a Uni change too. And Oregon! (I'm not making a serious point here)

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Running back is the one position you can always find serviceable street free agents. As a pats fan I can say that safety and corner are not.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

A Violence Gang posted:

I think it's a guy who falls between the ideal pro sizes for two different positions. Like a college DE who isn't as big as NFL DEs should be and will likely move to OLB.

Especially to refer to the difference between a 3-4 rush outside linebacker and a 4-3 pass rushing defensive end - each is the main pass rusher in different systems, and often coming out of college it might not be clear where a guy fits best. You know he's a good pass rusher but he could be a small 4-3 end or a big 3-4 linebacker.

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bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

The plan will be to move them to the left as they gain more experience. Fisher, Joeckel, and Johnson are all regarded as stud left tackle prospects but it sometimes takes a bit of time to bed into. Fluker's too slow for the left but he's such a monster and San Diego were so desperate, he went in the first anyway.

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