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Quick correctionjeffersonlives posted:OFFENSIVE FOOTBALL They changed this last year so that the foul is not "six on the line", it's "five in the backfield". No practical change except if the offense puts 10 on the field and doesn't realise, there's not gonna be a foul for six on the line because the correct response to the offense doing that is not throwing a flag, it's pointing and laughing. Gonna start another rules thread at some point between the end of the World Cup and the start of the season.
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Jul 7, 2010 00:22
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kyuss posted:[*]are there regulations in American arenas concerning Vuvuzelas / compressed air horns / other silly poo poo like that? Concerning being a good sportsman and all, I found it quite annoying to see german spectators trying to drown out the opposing team by using these every time France were on offense Nope, that's just what you do at a football game, it's part of the sport. If a team has something like an organised band then they can't play after the offense breaks its huddle, but just making an almighty racket from the stand is part of the game. Only thing that's a problem is blowing whistles, because the players need to be able to rely on the whistle for safety reasons. quote:[*]are there seperate blocks in American arenas for the two fan bases? (I know its commonplace in soccer, as violence can be a problem sometimes) America's such a big place that a lot of the time it's just not practical to see your team playing away because of the travelling distance, so you don't get the same culture of regular travelling support. quote:bringing along a cheat sheet with the most important referee signals next time. Any suggestions where these can be looked up? Your game will probably be played to NCAA rules, so have this one instead: http://bafra.org/signals/index.htm
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Aug 2, 2010 14:16
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Fouls against a defenseless player are completely different to pass interference, which is why it's a personal foul and it goes in a completely different bit of the rulebook. It's a player safety issue.
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Aug 12, 2010 19:54
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Planet Rulebook's definition of a "defenseless player" includes the following two items.quote:• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball; It is a bit of a funny one because he kind of falls down the hole between the two definitions; he's just taken his concentration off the ball and is beginning to ease up, but he isn't "clearly relaxed" either. Thing is, that's the kind of hit that's on the way out of football and nobody will ever get dinged for calling it.
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Aug 12, 2010 22:47
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Attention 1st downies: Delicious rules, piping hot are now being served.
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Aug 18, 2010 17:59
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NFL players can wear whatever colour visor they like; college and high school players are absolutely restricted to clear visors only for safety reasons (so medical personnel can see a player's eyes after a possible serious injury without having to fiddle with the helmet and potentially damage the neck and spine). If they have a good medical reason they can wear tinted goggles, which can be cut off the head if necessary without moving the player.
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Aug 24, 2010 14:57
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Not really, but the NFL uniform rules literally go on for over 10 pages and visors are somewhere next to the rule that says how much white your
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Aug 24, 2010 17:11
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I'm sure someone somewhere would just love to start a pedantic debate about whether you were running Wing-T or double-wing...
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Sep 8, 2010 14:15
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Sounds like it should be, but it's not. http://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=1353 The SAclopedia is useful sometimes.
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Nov 6, 2010 21:42
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Can't speak for Toronto but Wembley isn't designed with football in mind, so if you actually tried to put anyone in the first ten rows, all they'd see is the back of the benches. There's not enough height to see anything over the top of everyone's head, because it's designed for sports with clear sidelines.
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Nov 7, 2010 19:44
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This is why I love watching option offenses; all the decisions are right there on camera where you can see them.
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Nov 10, 2010 19:14
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History time. The reason some people use the word "gridiron", especially when referring to the field, is that that's how fields were marked when the sport was first codified; it was divided into a grid of boxes, with lines running from goal line to goal line as well as sideline to sideline. Mr Wikipedia has an image of what that looked like at the dawn of the 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Football_Diagram_1904.jpg (MUCH, MUCH LATER EDIT: The sharp-eyed may notice that the field is 110 yards long, which stuck around for quite a while before 100+20 caught on.) And here is a rather nice picture of the old stadium at Syracuse, ready for a game.  The ball could be snapped from any point within any of the grids (except IIRC the incomplete ones nearest the sidelines, which made up the last 5 feet of the field before the sidelines). Now, as with many things, the reason we have hashmarks today is the NFL's fault. For the first 11 years of the NFL's life, the champion had been determined without a post-season, they were just the team with the best percentage record after the season was complete. However, in 1932, Chicago and Portsmouth Spartans finished tied for the top spot, and so the NFL specially authorised a Playoff Game to determine the champions, at Wrigley Field. However, by this time they were in the middle of winter, and the weather was so poor that the NFL took the unprecedented step of moving the game indoors to Chicago Stadium. Playing the game indoors required a number of rule changes for safety reasons; one of them was the abandonment of the north/south gridiron lines, replaced with the first hashmarks, which were 10 yards from the sidelines, in order to stop plays starting dangerously close to the sidelines and the stands just beyond them. The other lasting change from this game was that from 1933, the NFL returned the goalposts to the goal line to encourage field goal kicking (the NCAA had moved them to the end line for safety reasons and left them there). After the rulebooks split, NCAA adopted hashmarks but decided they'd prefer to encourage field goals by widening the posts from the standard 18ft 6in (used also by every other sport that has H posts) to 23ft 4in. So then the hashmarks began to narrow. NCAA settled for dividing the field into thirds, while the NFL doubled the distance from 10 yards infield to 20 yards infield to continue encouraging short field goals (angles for which were much more acute in the NFL because of the narrower goal posts and their position on the goal line). Finally, the NFL narrowed the hashes again in 1974 to the width of the goalposts because they still felt that short kicks were too difficult. NCAA stayed with dividing the field into thirds until they re-adopted the 18ft 6in goals (and banned kicking blocks) in the early 90s, and went to the NFL's old 40-foot hashes. However, by that time, NFHS had been setting their own rules for 50 years and they decided to keep 23ft 4in, kicking blocks, and dividing the field into thirds. Of course, about three years after narrowing the hashes to their current distance, the NFL moved the goalposts back onto the end line. Did they widen the hashes again to reflect that? Did they bollocks. As for why they continue to maintain their own rulebooks; the way to think about it is that the existence of Fed and NFL rules is down to modifying the NCAA book for a specific purpose. NFL rules are more complicated and are designed to encourage spectacle, and are based on the precept that you have the best of the best in every department and you need to have things that look good on TV; Fed rules are aimed at kids who may not be good at football, and are also kept simpler and more black-and-white than NCAA rules because a lot of their officials work multiple sports depending on the time of year and need things kept simple so they can keep them straight. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Feb 2, 2012 |
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Dec 21, 2010 19:16
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Anyone know off the top of their head when it was that NFL players stopped having to have a summer job to make ends meet?
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Dec 24, 2010 03:52
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An American football field is exactly 53 and 1/3 yards wide, for reasons that no doubt made sense at the time and so nobody bothered to write them down. Fun fact; Walter Camp, the guy responsible for taking the myriad traditional mob football games played at American universities and turning them into a single unified game of football, was asked in the early 1900s to think up some new ideas to make the game less violent and more open. His main recommendation was to widen the field, to allow more space for 11 players to coexist and to run plays (he also had a great wacky idea that I utterly love, whereby any kick that went more than 25 yards could be legally caught or recovered by the kicking team). Trouble is, Harvard had just build a brand-new state-of-the-art stadium, and it was too small for Camp's recommended width, so all his great new ideas fell by the wayside because there was no way that they were moving out or building another one. However, the rules committee still felt the need to open the game up more, and as they couldn't widen the field, they instead decided to legalise this other great wacky idea that somebody else had had. It was called a "forward pass"...
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Jan 4, 2011 03:13
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They didn't divide the field perfectly into boxes, if that's what you're getting at; the boxes were 5 yards by 5 yards except the ones next to the sidelines, which were 5 yards long by 5 feet wide, and IIRC the field width had more or less become standardised before 5-yard lines were invented. Wikipedia's got a picture of what the true gridiron looked like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Football_Diagram_1904.jpg The sharp-eyed may notice that it's 110 yards long, which is something that stuck around for quite a while even after the American field narrowed. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 4, 2011 |
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Jan 4, 2011 05:35
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The logic behind grounding only applying when the QB is under pressure is that the offense gains absolutely no advantage by choosing to waste a down, as long as it's not done to avoid an immediate loss of yardage.Tekopo posted:Is intentional grounding the only penalty which makes the offence lose both yards and a down? There's quite a few, but they're all far more obscure. NFL only has one other, which is for an illegal forward pass or handoff (5 yards from the spot of the foul and loss of down). NCAA adds interlocking interference and assisting the runner to that category, and also has 15 yards and loss of down for illegally kicking or batting a loose ball, all of which in the NFL are 10 yards with no loss of down. Additionally and IIRC, in high school rules, offensive pass interference is 15 yards from the previous spot and loss of down, but don't quote me on that.
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Jan 11, 2011 15:20
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Broadcasters are often pretty poo poo at showing interesting replays and ESPN are absolutely the worst. There was an incident in the second quarter where Auburn #32 appeared to possibly be trying to literally kick someone up the arse and I'd love to know if he should have been ejected for it, except ESPN only bothered to show one replay of it and he wasn't even the focus of it, so you can't actually see properly what was going on. Assisting the runner and interlocking interference are difficult calls to make because it's perfectly legal to push the pile, and that's all I see from the Bush Push, incidentally - he comes in looking to push the pile, the QB spins away to go somewhere else at exactly the wrong moment, they chip each other, and then the QB falls over the line. This is assisting the runner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjWzKqGmL8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blUMSJCYXzA They're two of the oldest rules in the book and two of the most important and influential - they were created in the 1900s to ban the kind of mass-momentum plays that had hundreds of players dying on the field and the President threatening to ban the sport unless it could be made safer.
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Jan 12, 2011 13:34
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Someone called? I can't speak to the NFL, but the standard college keys for a 7-man crew at the snap look something like this: Referee: Blindside tackle, plus any other player who blocks as deep or deeper than him. Umpire: Center and guards. Field Judge/Side Judge: Widest reciever on your side of the formation. Back Judge: Inside reciever on the strong side; if the formation is balanced, the inside reciever on the Line Judge's side. Head Linesman/Line Judge: Any reciever on your side not already taken; if none, any back coming out of the backfield to your side. R, U and wings have wider responsibility at the snap than just their keys; they're also responsible for false starts, offside, motion, shifts, etc. They'll only tighten on a key once the snap's gone off and they read a pass play. R also has to pick a moment to come off the blocks and get with the passer for forward pass/fumble and QB protection. Wings and deep guys are expected to stick with their key until that player is obviously going out of their assigned zone or the ball is in the air. If it's not a pass, then the nearside wingman takes forward progress, R and U look for blocks at the point of attack, B and deep wing find second-level blocks, and the backside guys clean up the rest; if it's up the middle then both wingmen will have an eye for progress and the deep wings will both clean up. Mechanics manuals are typically the long side of 100 pages and not everyone does everything the same way, but that's as close to a potted summary as I can get.
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May 24, 2011 17:27
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By the way, the new NCAA rulebook just got released. Maybe I'll do another "let's learn the rules" thread. http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR11.pdf (pdf!)
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May 26, 2011 13:15
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edit: Rules questions may now be redirected to the brand-new rules thread. Well, there's no closeup of what happened, but assuming he does actually touch the guy it's probably OPI (OPI rules apply from the snap through to when the pass is complete); the only reasoning against it I can think of is if the covering official sees the defender go to initiate contact and then falls over because he got more back than he was expecting or he was off-balance or tripped or something. Hard to say because there's no close-up. Thing is, that call's not for the guy who's standing right there, he's got another man to cover and also he's supposed to be getting to the goal line (and is going to get dinged hard for moving off it and signalling TD from the 3 instead of backwards when the ball came towards him, which is something you Do Not Do Ever). That one's for the guy at the back corner on that side (unless they've fiddled the keys around for these 8-man crews that they're trialling, which is certainly not impossible), and initial action is always the hardest to pick up for deep wings, especially when it's on the inside shoulder, because a lot of the time a corner who's playing up tight will line up in the exact place as to screen you out from the initial contact. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Aug 16, 2011 |
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Aug 15, 2011 09:06
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I'd also point out that unless you're going to have every spot given by a magical field that can tell when body parts other than hands and feet are hitting it and a magical ball that knows whether it's being held by somebody and whether it's inbounds or out, human judgement would still be involved in working out where the ball got to in the first place. Bottom line; NFL and NCAA conferences are perfectly happy with the accuracy of spots given by their officials, plus there's an absolutely brilliant inherent drama involved in the ritual of bringing the chain out for a measurement. Necessity is the mother of invention, and there's absolutely no need to fill.
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Aug 19, 2011 20:54
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The terminology differs depending on which rulebook you're using; just about the only thing they do agree on is that when it appears, it's always "offside" in the singular. NFL: "Offside" is when a player is in the neutral zone at the snap, or a defender goes right through and is unabated to the quarterback (or any player is past their restraining line on a free kick). "Encroachment" is when a player enters the neutral zone and makes contact with an opponent. "Neutral zone infraction" is when a defender enters the neutral zone and causes an offensive player to react without contacting him. NCAA: "Offside" covers all three fouls described above when committed by a defensive team player. "Encroachment" is when an offensive player lines up in the neutral zone, and it is a dead-ball foul like a false start. NFHS: "Offside" is not used; "encroachment" covers any illegal entry into the neutral zone prior to the snap, and it is always a dead-ball foul; if a defender jumps, they aren't allowed to get back, and despite 50 years of officials calling it this way on the field, a large number of high school coaches still howl about it because it was called differently on Saturday's big TV game.
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Sep 20, 2011 11:01
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Of course, that sort of emphasis decreases as you go down football's food chain. NFL and major college teams can afford to have a system that they fit players into because they can be reasonably sure of getting hold of players who are suited to the system physically and who can understand it. A lot of major innovation in football comes from necessity, out of being forced to cobble together a system that will best suit the players you've got at Shitkicker High School or Central Southwestern A&M because you can't just install a system and assume that players will come along who will be suited to it. The service academies don't run the option because the commandants insist they run the option for tradition's sake, they run it because it's perfect for schools who end up with a lot of small fast guys, which will always be the case as long as the services insist on only allowing officer candidates who can run 100 yards without needing oxygen.
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Sep 22, 2011 12:03
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drunk leprechaun posted:Attending a game in person lets you see the entire field. Gives you a good opportunity to actually watch defensive backfield play and wr routes. This, a thousand times. Don't just watch the ball like the TV camera's trained you to do, the big screen will have a replay of that, there's loads more interesting things to watch. Pick a reciever and see how he run-blocks, or goes on a decoy route when they're calling an outside run to the other side, or works to make space and get open even when he's #3 in the QB's progression. On a punt, watch the gunners and see what they do and how they're dealt with; they'll take you to the ball if you keep watching them. Also, you know how TV timeouts are a mild annoyance? Massive loving bollock-ache when you're there. And I do mean massive. Bring a friend, or a paper if you haven't got one. Also also, get to Wembley early and play I-Spy with all the weird and wonderful different jerseys.
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Oct 2, 2011 22:25
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The scoreboards are also screens. You should be okay there as long as you're not in the first few rows that aren't covered over, anything further back and you should have a reasonable bit of height. Oh, also, don't even think about buying anything once you get inside. The FA's gotta pay their bills somehow.
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Oct 3, 2011 00:17
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Are you still confused about basic football concepts? Well, never fear, because I've found a man with a moustache. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ggus0C0M5Q He knows a little about America's favourite sport, and he's going to share it with you. Did you know that football can be traced back to Ancient Greece, and that it was they who originally invented the Y-shaped goalpost?  Presumably it's also them who invented the excessive celebration rule. Yeah, it's way hokey, but it's also quite sweet. Someone's helpfully uploaded the whole thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwDx3wDvSbE
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Oct 13, 2011 16:23
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On the point of "it's too difficult for the center!", one of the components of the single-wing used to be snapping the ball precisely so that it hit the tailback in a defined place on every play; some playbooks would ask their center to snap to right thigh or left thigh or high left or high right or dead middle, so it's not a completely insurmountable problem, other than it being like the "QBs calling their own plays" thing; you can't do it because nobody does it, so the skill is never developed, so the coaches forget how to coach it because it's not relevant, so nobody does it, and nobody comes to you who can do it, and so you can't do it. To do it anywhere other than high school would be too much of an investment in coaching time for too little benefit. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Oct 16, 2011 |
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Oct 16, 2011 13:00
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Detective Thompson posted:Has a TD always been worth six points since football became a thing? Absolutely not. In the semi-mob games that evolved into handling codes of football, the only score possible was a goal, and all that a touchdown got you was the opportunity for an unimpeded kick at goal (this is why rugby calls the score a "try", which is a contraction of "try-at-goal", and why the modern PAT's official name is "try down"). When American football introduced a points system, the touchdown was worth 4 points, the conversion goal another 4 and field goals were 5; then about 15 years later in 1897 it went to 5+1, then field goals went down to 4 in 1904 and 3 by 1909, with touchdowns going up to 6+1 in 1912; the two-point conversion eventually appeared in 1958. IIRC safeties have always been worth two points, since in the pre-points system they were considered equivalent to two touchdowns.
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Oct 26, 2011 02:42
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The rule at the time was that if any part of the passer's anatomy had gone across the neutral zone, it was a foul (it's now changed to require him to completely cross it). Take another look at about 1:02, and tell me if you can still be sure that his left arm didn't go past the down box before he released the ball.
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Nov 23, 2011 16:21
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Depends whether you're playing on Saturday or Sunday. In both cases, going out of bounds stops the clock; prior to the end of the half, it restarts when the ball is spotted inbounds for the next down (NCAA, last two minutes of both halves; NFL, last two minutes of the first half, last five minutes of the second half, and all of overtime), and then near the end of the half it doesn't start until the next snap. As SA2K says, if a ballcarrier is forced out of bounds by a defender behind where the defender makes contact with him, the ruling is usually to say forward progress, give the runner all his yardage, and keep the clock running. edit for just noticed: the thing about "taunting" in particular sticks out a lot because in most other sports you have to try a lot harder than you do in football to get penalised for being a dick to the other guy; this for me ties in with the whole hyper-celebratory attitude of football players, who probably do a dance every time they make a sandwich. Because everyone's biased towards being Big and Loud about everything, you rarely get people who just settle for calling each other loving cunts quietly in each other's ears to pass the downtime; they're gonna do it while hopping up and down like Zebedee and hooting it out to the world, and that gets people properly angry a lot quicker, and that makes it a lot easier for it to turn into a fight, and if you've never seen a bench-clearing brawl with between 80 and 150 people involved, then you need to do that. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 25, 2011 15:40
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Detective Thompson posted:That forward lateral that happened during one of the Broncos' fumbles, if that had been caught by the officials, would that have gone back to the Broncs? I'm guessing not since it happened after the ball was recovered, but sometimes things can be a little counter-intuitive. I'm guessing it would have just been however many yards the penalty carries back for the Pats offense, right? Would never have happened in this situation because it was a muffed punt (Cosby never had possession, he hosed up trying to catch it) and the ball was dead as soon as it recovered. I continue to be shocked by the number of professional special teams players who don't just dive on the ball in that situation and make 110% sure that they're going to recover it. Now, assuming it's a catch and fumble we're talking about; if the ball hits turf from the pass, it's an incomplete forward pass like any other and is dead (otherwise you letthe play run to conclusion), and then you enforce the penalty, which would be five yards from the spot of the foul. Ordinarily there would also be a loss of down there, but that doesn't apply in this case because of a concept called "continuity of downs", which meant that the Pats' series was over when the kick crossed the neutral zone and they didn't have a down to lose.
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Dec 19, 2011 11:12
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Tr0000000000000000 posted:Also why does the clock sometimes start again, before the snap, after the player with the ball went out of bounds, but most of the time it doesn't? That question is also about the NFL. Assuming they actually stopped it for out of bounds and didn't give him progress inbounds; unless you're inside the last two minutes of a half (NCAA) or last 2 of the first half/last 5 of the second/overtime (NFL), the clock starts when the ball's been brought back to the hash and spotted. This was originally an NFL idea to reduce game lengths, and if you look at their game times, they are scary good at getting games to finish in less than 3 hours 15 minutes.
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Jan 10, 2012 00:25
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The Digest is about 5 years old and the crowd-noise rule is history. NFL just recently joined us in the future and uploaded its full rulebook as a free PDF so you can see how loving horrendous it is. I recommend the uniform regulations, including the bit where it literally specifies how much white players have to have at the top of their The other possibility for why the clock kept running is that the TV clock is not in any way tied to the official game clock, and if it gets out of sync they'll sometimes try to correct it without anyone noticing like you would if they took it off the screen to reset the graphic, so they'll just run it or hold it up. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 02:24
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Grittybeard posted:Even though I don't think it was ever actually used Sam Wyche made the NFL look really loving stupid back in 1989 about it and it just kind of withered away as a thing that was in there but nobody ever used (he didn't do it again cos he'd made his point), and then the Competition Committee finally killed it a few years back.
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Jan 16, 2012 03:24
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I've just checked the NFL rulebook, and as far as I can make out, the rulebook states that they shall be there, but does not say what their purpose is, or what the difference is between the yellow dashed line and the white one. Whatever it is, as you say, it's clearly some version of a limit line, behind which everyone not directly involved in the game has to stay, and presumably there's some special people who are allowed up to the white where everyone else has to stay behind the yellow. If anyone goes in the rulebook to have a look for yourself, be aware that when it talks about those lines it talks about two different concepts; one is the yellow/white limit lines that surround the field and team areas, and the other is that it talks about the team areas being marked with yellow around the back and then white to mark the boundary between the team area and the coaches' box. Now that I think about it, that image is actually a really good one for showing the zones that exist around a football field and how team areas work; the first 6-foot belt in solid white is for the officials only so they can have a safe zone to officiate in while not being on the field, with the chain crew operating on the back edge of the belt; then the green area is the coaches' box, which is for coaches only (and, in the NFL, the backup QB can be there if he's got a clipboard with him), and it ensures they can have an unobstructed view of the game without needing to creep up into the officials' belt because players are getting in their way; then behind it, painted with the team logo, is the team area, where all the players have to be while they're not on the field. NFL team areas are quite a bit smaller than college (due to much larger roster sizes in college); NCAA rules allow them to be marked between the 25-yard lines.
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Feb 1, 2012 01:16
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But they are narrower in arena football.
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Feb 2, 2012 02:49
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Did an exhaustive post on the history of hashmarks and goalposts a while back: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3324645&userid=77743#post385990186
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Feb 2, 2012 13:13
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JesustheDarkLord posted:It is literally in the post before yours from 7.5 hours ago. But it belongs in every post. Ah dun wet mah britches! 
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Feb 8, 2012 01:45
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Arschlochkind posted:Is it just me, or does it seem like a whole lot of foreign NFL fans pick teams that are either widely hated or historically bad? Eagles, Pats, Cowboys, Bills, Browns, etc. For us in Britain, most of them are less "historically bad" and more "were good in the 80s and early 90s"; so Cowboys, 49ers, Bills, Broncos, Steelers, Raiders, Redskins, Dolphins, Bears, Giants. The most popular had a good team and one or more iconic players; so Niners for Montana and Rice, Dolphins for Marino, Broncos for Elway, Bears for the Fridge and the Super Bowl Shuffle, that sort of thing. Then you have a few teams with specific connections and significant followings; the Falcons had Mick Luckhurst kicking for them for a few years, for instance. John Smith at the Patriots made quite a few fans who now deeply resent getting taken for a bandwagoner of the kind that latched on with the rise of Tom Brady, who coincided neatly with the resurgence in the early 00s; there's also plenty of Green Bay Favres fans. If Tom Wort doesn't get hurt and gets any sort of NFL career, they're going to be everyone's second team and any vaguely new fan's first.
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Feb 9, 2012 21:25
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 15:00 |
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I am Tony Siragusa, and I am angry. Angry about honey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAdaD8RaC-4
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May 5, 2012 22:28
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