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JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

Lucidphoole posted:

What should I pay for a Rolex Yachtmaster?
Also what resale value do you think I could get 2 years down the line when the look needs an upgrade?

On something like a Rolex you'll likely lose 70% of the value when you sell your hot new watch as an outdated used watch two years later.

Bargain hunting is all well and good, but you may want to pay the premium to buy your Rolex from an authorized dealer (which means no discounts). Any number of jewelers and websites can get you the watch, for a big discount from list, but Rolex will not cover your warranty. And if your unauthorized dealer used nonstandard parts to repair anything Rolex will declare the watch a hybrid and refuse it as a counterfeit. But if you don't care about those things then you can find it for somewhere between $7,000 to $12,000 USD depending on which year you want and what dial.

And be very careful buying a Rolex secondhand or through a side channel. Do your homework. There are private counterfeiters making fantastic one-off fake watches for $5k a pop. I've known many dealers who couldn't tell the difference until the movement was totally disassembled.

If you're trying to impress kids at the yacht club then you should consider a Corum Admiral's Cup instead. If you want a watch to impress watch nerds you should consider a Patek Philippe.

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StopShootingMe
Jun 8, 2004

I can't believe I spent $5 on this title.
What are the most mechanically interesting/well designed watches?

Is anything with a quartz crystal setup going to be more accurate than a pure mechanical timepiece? Is it true that many of the fancy names in the industry put more money into advertising than timekeeping quality?

*EDIT* That was a not-very jewelery related question, so I'll add another in:

What do you think are some interesting metals used in jewelery design today? I've seen titanium for mens' stuff, which I think is a bit silly (neh, it's not jewelery it's super strong and masculine), and there are the classic precious metals mentioned in your OP, but what about rarer metals like Palladium and stuff? What, if anything are jewelers doing to stand out from the competition?

StopShootingMe fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jul 27, 2010

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

JohnnyRnR posted:

The only advice I can offer you on ametrine is that the majority that you see is absolutely fake. Like, this is in no way a natural stone. I would guess it is either synthetic quartz that has been color treated. The vast majority of ametrine that you find on eBay is synthetic or chemically adjusted to change its color. One tip is that the color change is often very abrupt in synthetic pieces.

But when you get a big natural stone it is absolutely stunning. This is a 100 carat fantasy cut piece that we are going to mount in a tiara someday. Notice how the purple creeps in from the points of the triangle. Color change in natural ametrine is very gentle. There are exceptions, but not many.



My God, that is gorgeous. Sorry to hear the real deal is apparently harder to find than I thought. Good to know, though; thanks!

yt2005
Feb 9, 2010
My brother once received, as a gift, an apparently limited-run Movado Museum-series watch, black leather strap, gold bezel, "limited" because at the 12 o'clock, instead of the classic gold dot, there was a diamond there. Not a big diamondy-shaped diamond from what I remember (though it was more than 10 years since I've seen it), more like a circle disc the size of what the gold dot usually is. My parents lost this watch when we moved (he was abroad at the time).
:negative:
My brother went from :aaa: to :byodood: to :qq: to :emo: when he first found out, but now is mostly just :( about it. He's getting married soon, and I want to conspire with his fiancée to replace it as his wedding present from his in-laws.

Problem is, even if I could find a genuine replacement, there's no way they could afford it. From what I remember, that thing was expensive. My plan now is to get a gold-dot Museum watch and take it to a Jeweler to have the dot dyked out and a diamond placed there instead.

I work in the diamond district in NYC, so finding someone probably won't be an issue (I also actually have a distant relative in the business... hmm), but I'm wondering about the feasibility and cost of doing this. The diamond could not have been very big, but I'm wondering about being able to find what I think was a very weird cut--I vaguely remember it being pretty flat-ish.

I presume that doing this would ruin the warranty, even though the movement would remain untouched; is this true? If it is, I might as well not bother with an authorized reseller--just find a trustworthy enough source, right?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Monkey Lincoln posted:

That I'm not sure about, but listen to that other guy. A stainless & 18K submariner or sea-dweller would run you 3000-4000, and resell for not much less than that.

Where? I'm honestly curious, because if I could grab an authentic SS/18K sub for that price range I'd jump all over it. That's about 3K less than I can find them for online used. I'd snap one up and ship it in to Rolex for a cleaning/polishing and still come out ahead of the game. I'd jump all over a pepsi bezel GMTII as well.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

StopShootingMe posted:

What are the most mechanically interesting/well designed watches?

Look at Patek Philipe's Grand Complication line. They have perpetual calendars (the date automatically adjusts for 30 day months / februrary, taking into account leap years), minute repeaters (a bell sounds out the time when you press a lever), moon phase, dual flyback chronographs etc.

Oh yeah, you'll never be able to even afford the regular service fee, much less actually hope to own one.

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry
What do y'all in the industry think of the "manufactured" market for diamonds around the world? The whole de Beers / Cecil Rhodes thing where diamonds were actually common as hell and easy to harvest, and the company has since exercised a monopoly on diamonds that artificially inflates their value simply by virtue of a vast marketing effort that has convinced everyone that a REAL DIAMOND OMG is the best thing to have ever?

I don't actually know if I buy into any of the conspiracy mumbles but it's an interesting bit of history, imperialism and exploitation.

I guess to tag another question on: what are your thoughts on synthetic diamonds and do you feel any I guess... threat? To your industry from the increasingly easy lab-fabricated diamond presence in the market?

Gunshow Poophole fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jul 27, 2010

Brennanite
Feb 14, 2009
I have a sterling band I'd like to have engraved. Is that something my local jeweler will do or is that too small of a job?

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja
Sure, most independent jewelers make a large portion of their income from providing service. Repairs, engraving, etc.

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

Stew Man Chew posted:

I guess to tag another question on: what are your thoughts on synthetic diamonds and do you feel any I guess... threat? To your industry from the increasingly easy lab-fabricated diamond presence in the market?

Synthetic diamonds currently aren't great. They're still expensive to produce, and limited as to what quality, colors, and size can be made. Eventually they will be fantastic, but that day seems distant still.

(Also, many people, including some jewelers, think that all diamonds are synthetic. Some whisper about mysterious factories churning out diamonds by the bucket like the Russians did in the 1960's. Why else would all the diamond mines be located in such inhospitable places? These people tend to be Ron Paul supporters and have gold coins and bullets buried in their back yard. Diamonds have a bit of mystery to them so they breed a lot of conspiracy theories)

Synthetic rubies and emeralds have been around for a hundred years, but we still sell the genuine article in large amounts. It isn't always just about the visual. Some customers buy for investments, some buy for status, and some buy just because they can.

I need to get some work done, but I'll post some stories of "wholesale gone wrong" and photos of pieces we've done later tonight.

Jumpsuit
Jan 1, 2007

My partner and I have been looking at engagement rings lately and I've got my heart set on an aquamarine ring (this one), but are they too soft a stone to be worn every day? I've read a bunch of conflicting information and as much as I love the colour, I don't want something really fragile.

lazerbeak
Dec 29, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I work for Tiffany and having said that... when you buy from Tiffany your not paying for a few flecks of gold and a name; you're paying and getting a whole lot more, for example Tiffany only uses the top 4% of ther worlds diamonds, many from our own mines, we lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds and our Too Precious to Wear campaign ensures that we are environmentally sound.

http://www.earthworksaction.org/20040324_tiffany.cfm

http://www.coral.org/news/coral_news/on_the_site_updates/tooprecioustowear


Instead of the 4C's that other jewlers use to rate diamonds we use a 5th to ensure quality. Go into any Tiffany in the world and I guarantee you that you will see the finest diamonds on Earth.

http://engagementrings.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Tiffany_Engagement_Rings

More info

http://www.tiffany.com/Expertise/Diamond/7_Points/

The biggest problem Tiffany has is counterfit jewlery. We just lost a huge battle with Ebay that would have forced them to stop selling junk goods with our name on it.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/ebay-trademark-flap/

So, long story short Tiffany is not just some "mall jewler" and I invite anybody to go into a Tiffany and see our quality and to learn about our history and our pro-environment policies.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

yt2005
Feb 9, 2010

lazerbeak posted:

Instead of the 4C's that other jewlers use to rate diamonds we use a 5th to ensure quality. Go into any Tiffany in the world and I guarantee you that you will see the finest diamonds on Earth.
Honestly, that just sounds like you're parroting really, really simplistic and misleading marketing. I don't know if that's actually true, since I'm not a jeweler, but when a single brand decides that the way the entire industry has been rating diamonds for years, the way billions and billions of dollars of diamonds are bought and sold every year, is wrong, that just screams marketing BS. Especially since according to the site you linked, the "fifth" standard "Presence" is "precision, symmetry, and polish". Strange, I thought the first two were part of what "cut" was (in addition to the actual shape), and holy smokes did you just say polish?

Again, I'm definitely no expert so I could be totally wrong, but that sounds like the lamest bunch of hogwash I've seen in a long time... and I've been following the MLM thread!

("Presence"... yeah, sure, the entire diamond industry is scamming you and each other by not having another category called "Presence")

Now, I have nothing personally against Tiffany (I bought my wife's plain white gold wedding band there. Either there or Zales, I don't remember). Well, now I do, given that "Presence" stuff. Screw you, GIA, we know how to really rate a diamond. (EDIT: Although Tiffany indeed does not use GIA, that's not even my point. It's just the declaration by Tiffany that the method by which they measure diamonds is supposedly superior.)

EDIT 2: Now, it's not crazy to see why they have to actually deviate from the standard. See this article, where an appraiser rates their diamond as having 65% (plus setting) of the value that it was bought for. The article spins this positively, saying that the rest of the "value" is in the name. Which sounds exactly like what was said before. Gold flecks and a name.

yt2005 fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 28, 2010

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry

lazerbeak posted:


So, long story short Tiffany is not just some "mall jewler" and I invite anybody to go into a Tiffany and see our quality and to learn about our history and our pro-environment policies.

The "history" of the diamond industry was paying indigenous South Africans pennies to hold a garden hose on hunks of kimberlite. But tell us more about marketing!

Monkey Lincoln
Dec 1, 2001
gumshoe

StopShootingMe posted:

What are the most mechanically interesting/well designed watches?

Is anything with a quartz crystal setup going to be more accurate than a pure mechanical timepiece? Is it true that many of the fancy names in the industry put more money into advertising than timekeeping quality?

*EDIT* That was a not-very jewelery related question, so I'll add another in:

What do you think are some interesting metals used in jewelery design today? I've seen titanium for mens' stuff, which I think is a bit silly (neh, it's not jewelery it's super strong and masculine), and there are the classic precious metals mentioned in your OP, but what about rarer metals like Palladium and stuff? What, if anything are jewelers doing to stand out from the competition?
Interesting? I've always had a nerd boner for Christophe Claret, even if his watches are $200,000

I don't know if companies put more into marketing than engineering, but it's possible. Whether you're making a great watch or a terrible one, it doesn't help for much if they're not selling.

Not a super rare metal, but Palladium pops it's head up every once in a while. Usually in something like a class ring or a 3 stone setting, nothing exciting.
Right now there's some push for a highly marketed metal called X1 among other things, It's white gold alloyed with Zinc and a bunch of other things so that it almost never tarnishes or hazes. For the markup I think people are better off buying a polishing cloth.

yt2005 posted:

My brother once received, as a gift, an apparently limited-run Movado Museum-series watch, black leather strap, gold bezel, "limited" because at the 12 o'clock, instead of the classic gold dot, there was a diamond there. Not a big diamondy-shaped diamond from what I remember (though it was more than 10 years since I've seen it), more like a circle disc the size of what the gold dot usually is. My parents lost this watch when we moved (he was abroad at the time).
:negative:
My brother went from :aaa: to :byodood: to :qq: to :emo: when he first found out, but now is mostly just :( about it. He's getting married soon, and I want to conspire with his fiancée to replace it as his wedding present from his in-laws.

The problem I'm imagining is that a Diamond in a setting, as big as the museum face dot, would be either deep enough that it would dig 2-3MM into the face and movement, or sit so high that the hands would smack into it. I'd say either keep an eye out for one on eBay for the rest of time, or get him a good looking Movado to replace it and he'll probably like it as much. (No probably less actually but you tried)

skipdogg posted:

Where? I'm honestly curious, because if I could grab an authentic SS/18K sub for that price range I'd jump all over it. That's about 3K less than I can find them for online used. I'd snap one up and ship it in to Rolex for a cleaning/polishing and still come out ahead of the game. I'd jump all over a pepsi bezel GMTII as well.

No I'm dumb, I'm thinking of a Stainless and not 18K one. I've sold a few recently for 3300-3800 depending on the strap condition.

Stew Man Chew posted:

What do y'all in the industry think of the "manufactured" market for diamonds around the world?

Manufactured and diamond synthetics probably won't be a huge problem, like Moissanite is now. If they're man made, they'll almost always be labeled as such, and if not most jewelers are always wary of big stones that are too clean and too white.

Brennanite posted:

I have a sterling band I'd like to have engraved. Is that something my local jeweler will do or is that too small of a job?

I've never come across a job too small. I probably do a job so small every day I can't be bothered to charge for it. Bring it to a local jeweler, they'll probably send it out and it'll run you $10-20.

Jumpsuit posted:

My partner and I have been looking at engagement rings lately and I've got my heart set on an aquamarine ring (this one), but are they too soft a stone to be worn every day? I've read a bunch of conflicting information and as much as I love the colour, I don't want something really fragile.

They're as soft as emeralds, which is a 7-8 hardness (Whereas Sapphire is 9 and Diamond is 10), it will scratch and chip over a long time, but in that setting the stone sits pretty low under the prongs and it's not channel set, so it won't hit things as often and it'll be easy to reprong or work on. Since that shape stone has a nice wide flat table, it shouldn't be a big deal to have it repolished every decade or so.

Terry Francona
Jan 20, 2004

by Cowcaster
any tips on how to not get ripped off, shopping for an engagement ring?

Monkey Lincoln
Dec 1, 2001
gumshoe

lazerbeak posted:

I work for Tiffany and having said that... when you buy from Tiffany your not paying for a few flecks of gold and a name; you're paying and getting a whole lot more, for example Tiffany only uses the top 4% of ther worlds diamonds, many from our own mines, we lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds and our Too Precious to Wear campaign ensures that we are environmentally sound.

Instead of the 4C's that other jewlers use to rate diamonds we use a 5th to ensure quality. Go into any Tiffany in the world and I guarantee you that you will see the finest diamonds on Earth.

The biggest problem Tiffany has is counterfit jewlery. We just lost a huge battle with Ebay that would have forced them to stop selling junk goods with our name on it.

So, long story short Tiffany is not just some "mall jewler" and I invite anybody to go into a Tiffany and see our quality and to learn about our history and our pro-environment policies.

We're gonna have fun with you.

Tiffany & Co is not a "Mall Jewler" {sic}, because when the mall stores charge you $300 for a piece of garbage it's st least some karat of gold, and not $3 worth of silver. Saying you get a name and a few flecks of gold would actually be a generous assessment in my eyes.

I've seen the stones T&Co sets in jewelry, and it's nothing special. Pretty average commercial quality, certain not D-IF stones. The better stones you have are same high quality stones you could get from any diamond dealer, but because they are from T&Co they're magically twice as expensive for basically no reason. And you "lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds"? Who else is going to lead the way you do things?

And Tiffany doesn't have a problem with people counterfeiting jewelry, they have a problem with their jewelry being ridiculously easy to counterfeit. If they don't want people selling junk good with the T&Co name on them, maybe they should knock it off themselves. If T&Co takes 6 grams of silver, worth roughly $2.50, and casts it into a band and sells it for $225, and I can rubber mold that into a duplicate ring with the same 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper, with the same hand done work and same polished finish, for $40, what exactly is it T&Co is selling? Hell, T&Co sells completely plain bands, the kind every jeweler and catalog carries. They want something like $2500 for the same size, width and weight platinum band I can sell for 900, only with "T&Co" stamped inside (Even made with cheaper Cobalt than iridium like they should). Most of their silver and gold jewelry is nothing different, save for a few nice pieces that T&Co sells, still for 200% of what it'd cost to have them made custom.

With all the things T&Co does wrong (aside from your own inability to spell "counterfit jewlery") Tiffany is the Monster Cables of the Jewelry world. 5% substance, 95% marketing. The only difference is if you waste your money on Monster cables you can always use them to hang yourself.

druglife posted:

any tips on how to not get ripped off, shopping for an engagement ring?

Do some footwork looking at rings till you find what you like. Once you've got a good idea visually, do some research online and find out what you should be paying. When you're even slightly educated it'll be 10 times harder for someone to take advantage of you.

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

lazerbeak posted:

I work for Tiffany and having said that... when you buy from Tiffany your not paying for a few flecks of gold and a name; you're paying and getting a whole lot more...

Instead of the 4C's that other jewlers use to rate diamonds we use a 5th to ensure quality. Go into any Tiffany in the world and I guarantee you that you will see the finest diamonds on Earth.

ITT, I tell you why you're wrong.

First: "Top 4% of the world's diamonds"... All jewelers can claim this distinction if they only sell stones above I1 clarity and K color. Tiffany diamonds aren't any better than diamonds available elsewhere in the market. I shy away from diamonds with a "Good" cut rating, and with fluorescence. To Tiffany these diamonds are standard retail fare (I have seen many secondhand Tiffany engagement rings, with original Tiffany papers and receipts, with these types of diamonds).

The "5th C" that Tiffany marketing likes to prattle on about is what the rest of the world calls "Make" If you look at a Tiffany diamond report you can see what "Tiffany Presence" actually is - The Cut, Polish, and Symmetry ratings from the diamond's GIA report. No great mystery there.

Let's move to price - Have you compared Tiffany's pricing to the industry? I was recently offered a secondhand Schlumberger Bud engagement ring. It had a 1.7 carat diamond of fine quality in it, and was a very nice ring with all the boxes and original paperwork. If I were going to make a similar ring, with a better quality diamond and the best craftsmanship on the planet, my price would be under $30k. The customer selling the ring had originally paid $42,500 from Tiffany! $12,000 is a significant difference.

However, if we're comparing Tiffany to the industry at large then I cannot fault the quality of their jewelry - It is built well. They use good craftsmen, good repair shops, and they take the time to do things correctly. But those same outside shops producing jewelry for Tiffany also make jewelry for me (and anyone else willing to pay them). The "Tiffany Quality" is available elsewhere from jewelers who charge less and are more pleasant to deal with.

One reason my business has done well is because I speak honestly and openly with my customers. I don't try to hide behind insulting marketing methods like "Presence," and my customers respect the honesty and openness.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi
So Philadelphia has a "jewler's row" a few blocks away from me. From what you're saying, the way to go would be to start at one end, and walk into as many stores as I can, comparing the prices to each other? Sorry if this sounds too obvious, I'm just extremely wary of an industry that I see as very disingenuous, and after seeing my friend get demolished by a mall jewelry store. He even went with their financing.

Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jul 28, 2010

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Residency Evil posted:

So Philadelphia has a "jewler's row" a few blocks away from me. From what you're saying, the way to go would be to start at one end, and walk into as many stores as I can, comparing the prices to each other? Sorry if this sounds too obvious, I'm just extremely wary of an industry that I see as very disingenuous, and after seeing my friend get demolished by a mall jewelry store. He even went with their financing.

You should really go in knowing exactly what you want, and have an idea of what kinds of prices are fair.

When I bought my wife's ring, we decided to give up a little clarity for a better color and cut. She has a .75 carat Princess in the center, it's VS2, but F color and has a very good cut. We felt it was a good compromise considering our budget. The same F color VG cut stone down to a VVS2 would have been about 400 bucks more, and honestly we didn't feel it was worth it.

Secks Cauldron
Aug 26, 2006

I thought they closed that place down!

Residency Evil posted:

So Philadelphia has a "jewler's row" a few blocks away from me. From what you're saying, the way to go would be to start at one end, and walk into as many stores as I can, comparing the prices to each other? Sorry if this sounds too obvious, I'm just extremely wary of an industry that I see as very disingenuous, and after seeing my friend get demolished by a mall jewelry store. He even went with their financing.
^^What skipdogg says. I work in a jewelry store and people come in to compare prices all the time. Go in when the store is slow, be polite and upfront about what you're doing.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi
I'm just confused as to what the best way to compare is. Say I want a ring with one diamond flanked by two sapphires. Maybe this is even pretty common, as stated above. Still, am I wrong in thinking that I could ask for that same ring in 5 different stores and get seven options? They all might have different size, cut, clarity, etc. The setting might be different. It just seems as if comparing prices is almost impossible unless you're a jeweler, and know how much the real difference is between each option, and how much the dealer is charging in markup.

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja
A lot of people go into jewelry stores thinking that they want something pretty, but they're deathly afraid of getting ripped off. It sounds like this is your big question here. "How do I guarantee that I'm not overpaying?"

This is where having a relationship with someone comes in handy. If your mom was a diamond dealer you could trust her counsel. Walking into a random jewelry store... probably not.

If you are determined to shop in a local store then my advice would be:
1. Set a budget. Determine the exact amount you want to spend.
2. Go to 3-4 stores and tell them what you want. Then tell them the budget.
3. Take notes on what each store shows you.
4. Pick the one guy you like best, take in the other quotes, and ask him if he can match or beat the price.

You get the benefits of both competition and the last salesman knowing that you're giving him a chance to impress you and close the sale. I've been to the Philly Row, and there are a few sketchy guys on that street. Definitely take your time and do your homework.

lazerbeak
Dec 29, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Monkey Lincoln posted:

We're gonna have fun with you.

Tiffany & Co is not a "Mall Jewler" {sic}, because when the mall stores charge you $300 for a piece of garbage it's st least some karat of gold, and not $3 worth of silver. Saying you get a name and a few flecks of gold would actually be a generous assessment in my eyes.

I've seen the stones T&Co sets in jewelry, and it's nothing special. Pretty average commercial quality, certain not D-IF stones. The better stones you have are same high quality stones you could get from any diamond dealer, but because they are from T&Co they're magically twice as expensive for basically no reason. And you "lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds"? Who else is going to lead the way you do things?

And Tiffany doesn't have a problem with people counterfeiting jewelry, they have a problem with their jewelry being ridiculously easy to counterfeit. If they don't want people selling junk good with the T&Co name on them, maybe they should knock it off themselves. If T&Co takes 6 grams of silver, worth roughly $2.50, and casts it into a band and sells it for $225, and I can rubber mold that into a duplicate ring with the same 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper, with the same hand done work and same polished finish, for $40, what exactly is it T&Co is selling? Hell, T&Co sells completely plain bands, the kind every jeweler and catalog carries. They want something like $2500 for the same size, width and weight platinum band I can sell for 900, only with "T&Co" stamped inside (Even made with cheaper Cobalt than iridium like they should). Most of their silver and gold jewelry is nothing different, save for a few nice pieces that T&Co sells, still for 200% of what it'd cost to have them made custom.

With all the things T&Co does wrong (aside from your own inability to spell "counterfit jewlery") Tiffany is the Monster Cables of the Jewelry world. 5% substance, 95% marketing. The only difference is if you waste your money on Monster cables you can always use them to hang yourself.





I notice you don't even mention having a return/exchange/repair policy. That's worked into the price of all Tiffany jewels as well. Do you have an upgrade policy for your diamonds or do cleaning and setting repairs for the ring owners lifetime. All that is part of the cost as well.

But you do point out my spelling errors. Kind of petty (just like calling Tiffany stones average commerical quality when you probably know they aren't) and I invite anyone to go into a store and compare Tiffany diamonds to any other jewler.

There's a reason Tiffany is the best there is other than having been around for over a hundred years and it's not just having the best customer service, it's our skill and workmanship. If you ever get the chance to see the Vince Lombardi Superbowl tropy, that's Tiffany; the World Series Trophy for baseball; hell, just read about all of it including the Superbowl rings here

http://press.tiffany.com/About/Tiffany/SportsTrophies.aspx

Or of you want to hold a Tiffany piece in your hand just reach into your wallet and pull out a one dollar bill. The Great Seal of the United States... Tiffany.

You know, we're always looking for the best skilled craftsmen... may I suggest you visit

https://www.tiffanycareers.com/home

lazerbeak fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 28, 2010

Other Door
Apr 17, 2005

quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are called leafs fans. GO SENS GO
Interesting thread, and thanks for the info. I know absolutely nothing about this subject, and while I'd love to learn I can honestly say I didn't really understand the bit in the OP about how to value your own jewelry before you sell it.

I have a bracelet that was won by my parents in a raffle about 15 years ago. It is gold and diamond (sorry, don't know how much/what kind, but it doesn't matter for this question). At the raffle (I was told) the bracelet was said to be worth $5000. My parents had the choice to take the bracelet or else take $2700 cash. They took the bracelet.

Now I have it and want to get rid of it.

I took the bracelet to a mall jeweler, and they tested it and told me the diamonds were zircon and therefore worthless.

I then took the bracelet to a pawn shop. They tested it and told me it was real. They offered me $500. I declined.

I now have the bracelet in my safety deposit box and don't know what to do with it. My questions are:

1. How much should it cost me to have someone who knows what they're doing appraise it for me.
2. Would I be better off selling it as is or having it broken up into its individual components (eg. selling the gold and keeping some diamonds to put on a future engagement ring)?
3. Does this sort of thing depreciate with time? I know the price of gold is variable but is a used bracelet worth less than a new one from (hurrr) Tiffany's?
4. Want to buy a bracelet?

I have zero use for it as a bracelet (and I actually think it's rear end-ugly, but that's what I thought of my friend's $8,000 ring too so I'm probably not the guy to judge this stuff). $500 (what the pawn shop offered me) is useless to me and I don't desperately need that money, and from what it sounds like I'll never approach the $5000 I was told it was worth.

I could potentially see some value in the bracelet's individual components, but that also seems like a lot of work. The last thing I want is to have it sit in my safe deposit box forever.

Sorry for the long post, and for not including the actual useful information like the exact specs of the bracelet.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

lazerbeak posted:

But you do point out my spelling errors. Kind of petty (just like calling Tiffany stones average commerical quality when you probably know they aren't) and I invite anyone to go into a store and compare Tiffany diamonds to any other jewler.

You can spout your company lines all you want; anyone here can see through it. Just do me a favor and *please* figure out to spell jeweler before you expect anyone to take you seriously, that's twice now.

Monkey Lincoln
Dec 1, 2001
gumshoe

lazerbeak posted:

Or of you want to hold a Tiffany piece in your hand just reach into your wallet and pull out a one dollar bill. The Great Seal of the United States... Tiffany.
Yup now I'm convinced you're either some sort of awesome troll or some sort of terrible shill. My typing is pretty bad but I can spell "jewelry" correctly most of the time.

Just in case you're not, I don't talk about "Diamond upgrade policy" because that's not a real thing. Whatever it is Tiffany does, I'm sure I could upgrade my customers diamonds 5 times over if I could collect the money they do for their run of the mill, mass produced jewelry. The people who like their designs are typically the same people willing to pay more for David Yurman designs, not knowing they're just old Bali designs with a dot of gold, again, sold at a ridiculous markup.

Ugh, that aside, I'm here to talk about real people jewelry.

Other Door posted:

I now have the bracelet in my safety deposit box and don't know what to do with it. My questions are:

Well you're off to a good start. Chances are it was a bracelet that sold for about 2700 at the time, and when they said it was worth 5K, that was likely an appraisal figure, which usually runs about double the selling price.

If there's not a tiny stamp somewhere on it, bring it back to any pawn shop or gold buyer and they can test it for carat, and you can ask them what it weighs in grams or pennyweights, and they should never charge you to appraise it like that.From there either you can figure out what the foll gold scrap is, or we can tell you.
Once you know what the gold is worth, you have the option of scrapping it for quick money, or selling it privately to someone you know, which will get you more money if you're patient.
As for the price depreciating, it probably won't scrap for what the cash equivalent would have been back in the day, but gold is pretty close to the highest it's been, so you'll get alot more scrapping it now than you you would have, say 2 or 5 or 10 years ago.
If they already tested the stones and they're CZ, they're probably not worth trying to take out to save, as they'll probably run $5 to replace down the line. Beyond that, you'd be hard pressed to get someone to pay a premium for the individual parts. The clasp or stone findings run more than gold when you have to buy them, but typically most gold buyers have far more than they need already.

Giant Isopod
Jan 30, 2010

Bathynomus giganteus
Yams Fan
I was going to ask the synthetic diamond question, but I was beaten too it. Then this came along:

Monkey Lincoln posted:


Manufactured and diamond synthetics probably won't be a huge problem, like Moissanite is now. If they're man made, they'll almost always be labeled as such, and if not most jewelers are always wary of big stones that are too clean and too white.


I don't get this. Are you implying that they will always be considered inferior? Why? It's the same rock, right?

I was under the assumption that once we got synthetic diamonds down right we could stop digging the drat things out of the ground.

If anything, the idea that they will always be labeled as such and considered 2nd class is the huge problem.

Monkey Lincoln
Dec 1, 2001
gumshoe

Giant Isopod posted:

If anything, the idea that they will always be labeled as such and considered 2nd class is the huge problem.

It would be a huge problem, and my guess is that it will. Aside from their hardness, CZs look like flawless diamonds, Mois even tests like it. Whereever you draw the line at Diamond vs non-diamonds, I think the popular opinion will always put synthetic diamonds south of the line. Maybe people will just use the idea that "Well your options are this diamond, made over 64 million years by mother nature, or this lab created diamons churned out by some scientist named bob."
Or maybe I'll be completely wrong, but that's just my speculation. Personally, I wouldn't mind every third factory in china pumping out actual diamonds for jewelry and industrial applications on a constant basis, so who know's what'll actually unfold.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

yt2005 posted:

My brother's Movado

Don't buy him a loving Movado. Movado uses $10 quartz movements and dresses them up in a silly case, and charges 2000% markup for a watch that can't even tell time. There is literally nothing of worth in a Movado watch.

Use whatever your budget for him is, and get him a nice watch from a real watch company. Get him something that says "I am a man of means, a sophisticated individual with fine taste." instead of "HAY GUYZ!! I'M A MOUTH-BREATHING RETARDED MAN-CHILD!" (see yachtmaster goon above)

Edit: To be fair, you can say Movado is the "Tiffany" of watches. It definitely appeals to a "certain kind" of person, but is that kind of person what you see in your brother?

INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jul 29, 2010

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

lazerbeak posted:

I notice you don't even mention having a return/exchange/repair policy.

Do you have an upgrade policy for your diamonds or do cleaning and setting repairs for the ring owners lifetime.

There's a reason Tiffany is the best there is other than having been around for over a hundred years...

Personally, I feel that Tiffany died when Walter Hoving left. He was truly a man of vision, taste, and style. He was responsible for salvaging the Tiffany reputation by reinstating the quality that Tiffany lost. For a long time the company was a joke (1950's), but Mr. Hoving rescued the company from mismanagement and poor taste.

Most stores provide lifetime cleaning and repairs. Most stores give 30 days no questions asked return policies. The things you mention are not special.

Generally a diamond upgrade policy is a slick way of telling a customer "I don't want to pay you for your old diamond so we'll work a trade-in price into the cost of the new one." It's a lot like trading in your used car on a new one.

For some of my customers I offer a 75% lifetime diamond buy-back guarantee, and I pay in cash not store credit. I'd love to see someone try to sell Tiffany a diamond back after 12 months.

lazerbeak, it's obvious that you don't know anything about diamonds or the jewelry industry at large. If you did you would not be making the statements that you are.

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010
Do you have any tips on finding good pieces in the thrift stores?

They often have jewelry-like items available, is there a way to tell real silver/gold pieces apart from plain stuff? Do the real ones have to be branded in some special way? Can you figure the karat rating somehow?

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
Dec 28, 2007

Kiss this and hang

A couple of questions:

First, I inherited all my grandmother's jewelry. She has some awesome stuff..and some costume stuff and she has some stuff I just can't classify. Are there people out there that will take a huge lump of jewelry and help me identify what is awesome and what is just stuff?

Second, When were were traveling we picked up and honest-to-god "Golden Idol". It was apparently owned by a wealthy family that had fallen on hard times. All the coral and tourquoise had been taken out of the settings before the idol had gone to market. Who could I go to to have them reset?

Monkey Lincoln
Dec 1, 2001
gumshoe

INTJ Mastermind posted:

Don't buy him a loving Movado. Movado uses $10 quartz movements and dresses them up in a silly case, and charges 2000% markup for a watch that can't even tell time. There is literally nothing of worth in a Movado watch.

Use whatever your budget for him is, and get him a nice watch from a real watch company. Get him something that says "I am a man of means, a sophisticated individual with fine taste." instead of "HAY GUYZ!! I'M A MOUTH-BREATHING RETARDED MAN-CHILD!" (see yachtmaster goon above)

Edit: To be fair, you can say Movado is the "Tiffany" of watches. It definitely appeals to a "certain kind" of person, but is that kind of person what you see in your brother?

I'm not crazy about Movados, cause as you said they are crazy overpriced and typically constructed of nothing special, but they make some good looking mens watches and I've seen them stand up to some pretty rough abuse. If there's a personal history behind them for him and his brother, I'd say go for it. He can certainly do worse, especially if he can get one preowned for 30-60% of the retail.


iv46vi posted:

Do you have any tips on finding good pieces in the thrift stores?

They often have jewelry-like items available, is there a way to tell real silver/gold pieces apart from plain stuff? Do the real ones have to be branded in some special way? Can you figure the karat rating somehow?

You mean like spotting real gold in a pile of costume? Doing it from sight is one of those skills you can hone for years and still not be perfect at. I've done it time to time, just going through piles of flea market jewelry looking for gold, and you can find some. Besides gold being stamped for karat or purity, the two things that stand out are the sheen or tarnish of white gold, which is usually different from any white costume, or the weight. Unless costume is gold plated pewter, gold and even silver will have a good heft to it.
If you're not sure about something being a diamond, it should be set in the ring, not glued, have a hole drilled behind it if it's deep set, and shouldn't have scratches on the face.

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:

A couple of questions:

First, I inherited all my grandmother's jewelry. She has some awesome stuff..and some costume stuff and she has some stuff I just can't classify. Are there people out there that will take a huge lump of jewelry and help me identify what is awesome and what is just stuff?

Second, When were were traveling we picked up and honest-to-god "Golden Idol". It was apparently owned by a wealthy family that had fallen on hard times. All the coral and tourquoise had been taken out of the settings before the idol had gone to market. Who could I go to to have them reset?

Almost any place that buys gold would probably be fine sifting through it for you if they're not too busy at the moment. I do something like that probably twice a week. It's typically not a ton of trouble to go through everything, separate by karat and write down some individual offers on nicer pieces.

If you want to make them feel like you're not using them for the service, make up something like how you need it separated and need some individual quotes on the better items to settle the estate, then you'll take it back to the family and probably sell it later in the week or next.

Tough to say about the idol, Turquoise is one of those weird one-way markets. Selling it won't get you much, buying it will cost a ton. You might have some luck going to more eclectic jewelry stores and asking around, there's probably at least one person in each town with enough stones and the means to cut more to size that they'd put stones back in it.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

Monkey Lincoln posted:

I'm not crazy about Movados...

Sentimental things are one of those annoying times when you have to throw logic out the window, and bend over and take it up the rear end. E.G.: My girlfriend REALLY likes Tiffany. FFFFF..... WOMEN!!!!

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008
Toilet Rascal
So I'm looking to get a nice ring for my girlfriend for christmas. Right now its between a synthetic alexandrite ring and a garnet ring.

http://www.divadiamonds.net/detail/?tbl=rings&itemnum=JD932GRR4S

http://www.jewelsforme.com/item-main.asp?ItemNumber=2178R-14&Gemtype=CA&Metal=W&ItemMonth=&Ad=&CU=

My question is do either of these look worth it? Neither of us like diamonds and I don't have the money for anything really big. I like the designs especially the garnet ring but I don't know if its worth it at all to even look at them or consider them. Figured its best to ask a jeweler a bit to find out if its worth it to consider either of these :)

Lilac
Dec 8, 2005

by Fistgrrl

INTJ Mastermind posted:

Use whatever your budget for him is, and get him a nice watch from a real watch company. Get him something that says "I am a man of means, a sophisticated individual with fine taste." instead of "HAY GUYZ!! I'M A MOUTH-BREATHING RETARDED MAN-CHILD!" (see yachtmaster goon above)

I spent 300$ at amazon.com on a movado juro to wear on formal occasions. Try finding a real watch for that money.
Also, it keeps better time than any of my automatics.

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005
Awesome thread. For some reason I absolutely love jewelry. I don't wear any or own any, but I love looking at the beauty and craftsmanship that goes into well made pieces.

I have two questions: First, how can you spot a fake Bulova watch? I'm 99% certain that a watch a friend of mine asked me to lock up for him is fake. But i'd remiss if I didn't at least find out of it was fake. It's a watch marked as Bulova and on the back it says that it's Swiss Made, 18k gold, and says it's No. 2020. I did some research and expensive watches like Bulova all have serial numbers. These serial numbers are supposedly longer then 4 digits and start with the letter C. So just going by that criteria, I assume it's a knockoff. Still, maybe it's a much older watch. So anything I can do at home to test it's authenticity?

Secondly, an acquaintance ended up buying some David Yurman jewelry years ago from an ex-con that admitted it was stolen. What are the chances that the jewelry is still flagged in some system somewhere and when he/she goes to sell it, they'll get locked up?

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

Lilac posted:

I spent 300$ at amazon.com on a movado juro to wear on formal occasions. Try finding a real watch for that money.
Also, it keeps better time than any of my automatics.

The Movado Juro is a quartz watch that retails for $1000. If you got it for $300, congrats! I feel $300 is the MOST you should be paying for a simple quartz watch.

A $10 Timex will also keep as good time as your $300-1000 Movado. Luxury watches aren't so much about accuracy as design, movement, history, and build quality. At this price, your watch should perform flawlessly and last you a lifetime with proper service.

The $300-1000 price bracket is largely filled with overpriced crap (like Movado, Invicta, etc.), but there's some real gems in there if you do the research.

Tissot makes some great Swiss timepieces in that price range. This is also the high-end of the Seiko / Citizen lines, so you can get some very nice watches from them too if you're looking Japanese.

Also consider small independent Swiss manufacturers like Oris, Stowa, Steinhart, Christopher Ward, etc. They can offer some high quality ETA 2824/2892 automatics for ~$300-500, and even a Valjoux 7750 automatic chronograph for <$1000.

Basically you're looking for the following: Swiss MADE not Swiss MOVT (except for Seiko or Citizen obviously), ETA automatic movement, Sapphire crystal, well-built and sturdy case, bracelet, and clasp.

INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 31, 2010

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Tshirt Ninja
Jan 1, 2010
Very nice thread. I've just inherited a pair of nearly flawless diamond studs, about 1.25 carats each - nothing extremely remarkable, except for being a pair of big old rocks. The problem is that when I bring them to a jeweler (I don't have a business relationship with any specific jeweler at this point) to have them re-set, I'm concerned he's going to switch them out and rip me off. I'm not sure how common this practice is, and though I know my diamonds, I would have no proof if he were to do it. Is there any way to guard against this whatsoever? The diamonds have been in my family for ages and I'm terrified of losing them to a lovely jeweler.

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