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Willie Tomg posted:You are purposely misconstruing HFG's post to make a point and it makes you look like a child. Which you are in actuality, if this is what passes for a witty rejoinder in your neck of the woods. They did a study about cutting in lines and excuses where they had people go up to a bust copy machine and give various excuses to why they needed to cut and recorded how often people would let them with each excuse, and it turned out "I need to make copies" worked as well as any excuse because it sounds like an excuse even if it's just saying the thing your doing. Nothing he says actually refutes the idea they are getting unfair treatment by the justice system he's just restating that they do and saying that means it's okay.
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Aug 18, 2010 12:34
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baquerd posted:Stating that they get unfair treatment in no way advocates that treatment... It wouldn't be without "it doesn't seem fair, but when you think about it for 30 seconds, it really is".
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Aug 18, 2010 12:47
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Willie Tomg posted:Holy poo poo you literally lack basic reading comprehension. Or you just didn't read. I'm inclined to believe either, neither flattering. It isn't fair, the way the justice system treats rich or famous people is absurd.
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Aug 18, 2010 13:24
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Calantus posted:No, the way your justice system treats the non-rich and non-famous people is absurd. You should be striving to ensure that every inmate can expect a safe environment behind bars, not tearing down the few who get it. This is an incredibly good point, this is 100% what I agree with now.
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Aug 18, 2010 23:36
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SpaceDrake posted:The numbers are somewhat deceptive there. Spartacus was able to arm his troops to a (relatively) equal level to his Roman army competitors; the US army has access to resources that a widescale prison rebellion can, realistically, never hope to attain. While in a sense this is clearly true I think it's hilarious that even in 2010 the whole "bigger weapons = win the fight" thing is still in people's head. In the last 40 years we have said that over and over and then gotten beat or battled to a deadlock by sticks and old Russian guns at least 4 times. Prisoners are US citizens with families, what would we do? call air strikes? If there was a riot and the 10,000 people in cook county jail escaped, what exactly would the biggest guns do? you can't just spray Illinois with mortars or something.
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Aug 30, 2010 01:44
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SpaceDrake posted:Just look at this thread, consider public opinion of criminal offenders in this country. And then consider what'd happen if they revolted and how the government could paint that. If they're hiding among civilians, they probably wouldn't do anything "extreme", but if they're organized in a place where civilian casualties would be "light" and they're in open rebellion? You bet your rear end there'd be airstrikes, and the government would probably bet that a majority of people would support the effort to put down "an unjust revolt by vile criminals with no respect for The Flag And Constitution". I'm not buying it, I think a statement like this has gone past realistic things that could happen and into crazy talk. The government could not carpet bomb US citizens pretty much no matter what and have anyone rally behind that as okay.
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Aug 30, 2010 03:30
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Protocol 5 posted:The Japanese criminal justice system is an absolute goddamn nightmare. The conviction rate is still routinely over 90% mostly because they will hold suspects without visitors or access to legal council for as long as legally possible while badgering them to sign confessions, sometimes multiple times per day, every day until they either crack or have to be released. Most cases aren't even brought to trial unless it's a guaranteed slam dunk. It's also very much a "guilty until proven innocent" system, hearkening back to the legal system under the Tokugawa bakufu, itself based on Neo-Confucian concepts of justice. The funny thing is is that they have seemingly the worst possible most screwed up system you could even imagine but still only send people to jail 7% as much as the US does.
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Aug 30, 2010 19:56
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baquerd posted:For what it's worth, this seems unlikely, not the effects but the cause. For one, the guards are breathing the same air. It seems very likely, once you have a building of a certain size HVAC becomes a necessary factor. There are systems that don't do a great job in tons of office buildings and so there is nothing unthinkable about the system being set up by someone that did a bunch of math to figure it out then it being controlled by a guard who spun the dials whatever way he felt was funniest.
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Sep 3, 2010 12:13
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I mean you need a masters in mechanical engineering to design the sort of complex airflow systems really large buildings have and it seems incredibly obvious that in a building no one cares about people would just do whatever and subvert the design. I don't think anyone is like intentionally making gas chambers exactly, I think it's that prison guards don't actually understand what havc does and think they are just being slightly jerkish to some prisoners by not replacing a fan or turning the airflow lower than the design said it'd be at. havc is serious business!
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Sep 3, 2010 15:32
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Lykourgos posted:I haven't played Phoenix Wright, but it's supposed to be a good game, so isn't there a point in the game where the police (allegedly) seize evidence improperly and you make a motion to suppress it? There is a point where you ask a ghost to the stand soooooooooo
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Sep 6, 2010 02:54
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Fire posted:I know, thats my point. They could have just said the whole thing takes place in Japan and I would have believed them. Why even bother claiming it takes place in the US and try to say that Maya is wearing "hippie clothes" instead of a kimono. A philosopher's stone!? no kid will want to read a PHILOSOPHY book, feh.
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Sep 7, 2010 16:58
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nm posted:I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that these are first offenders, likely with low-level drug offenses. Or that they self-select those most likely to succeed (and fail those unlikely to succeed). Honestly that sounds right, time spent in prison easily ruins a person's life and makes them more criminal. I very much expect if the law was changed so if you stole you'd get your hand broken and then set free that it'd have a lower repeat offender rate than prison, NOT because of the brutal punishment teaching anyone anything, but because prison time is deadly poison and it takes a lot to make something worse than it psychologically. I wouldn't be surprised if just getting arrested and released the repeat rate was something like 20% and being inhuman to a person for 6 weeks raises it to 23% and 6 years to 32% more than anything, I wouldn't be shocked if their statistic was exactly right but for the wrong reason.
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Sep 12, 2010 05:30
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nm posted:That could be true. That wouldn't make sense. The felony conviction would be there either way so it would be exactly equally damaging in that respect but then prison also does thing like torture people, given them huge gaps in employment, integrate them into gangs, ect.
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Sep 12, 2010 13:25
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21stCentury posted:Yeah, but where Prison puts you in a "prison mindset", the felony charge makes you unable to get out of the prison mindset, thus bringing you back to prison. Huh? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I am saying that even a terrible program will have better results than a prison stay because prison is ruinous.
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Sep 12, 2010 14:46
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Rutibex posted:That's pretty much how the system is designed. It's kind of It isn't something from a history book either when people were saying "this is our new way to deny blacks rights" after civil rights. Like, it's not a conspiracy, it was stuff the people doing it were saying on record.
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Sep 12, 2010 16:26
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to say so but look at how the incentives are structured. A whole lot of people get paid a whole lot of money the more prisoners there are. These are the same people who are in charge of the prison environment.
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21stCentury posted:I'm relieved that the bill got passed. I was under the impression it was a bill to introduce solitary confinement in schools... I hope no one misinterprets me as supporting the sort of things that have been done because it is raw and pure evil. But some of this stuff exists legitimately in special ed. There are autistic kids that do repeated behavior and one day will just get it in their head to scratch their eyes over and over no matter what and are not high functioning enough to get rationalized or even punished away from it, and the only thing that can be done is to physically keep them from it for the period until they move to another behavior. Clearly this stuff is misused, and it certainly is misused in special ed as well, but special ed can be a weird little universe sometimes, with some really absurdly extreme cases. A lot of children are getting education now where in the past they would have just been set to institutions and kept "chemically restrained" with drugs that made them lay in bed all day. This stuff has to exist for them, and has to be used properly, it's not a punishment and shouldn't ever be used as such. But yeah, special ed teachers do really learn how to restrain children, they need to do that. They need a thing to do when a kid with down syndrome starts slamming the edge of a metal ruler into another kid's face.
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Sep 12, 2010 22:29
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nm posted:This is just as damaging as the effects as prison. Obviously these two team up for a double whammy of being hosed. I guess I agree, it's just weird to phrase it like that, it's just as damaging plus their is more bad effects can be rephrased as "more damaging" without implying either is not damaging.
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Sep 12, 2010 23:25
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flux_core posted:Seclusion, 'restraint' as either bondage and restraint, or pain-compliance holds (basically UFC bullshit against kids, if you want a visual) is used as a means of control, discipline and easy-way-out by a plethora of fly by night profit seeking institutions who call themselves therapeutic boarding schools, residential treatment, emotional growth, alternative, or just a boarding or 'alternative' or charter school I agree 100%, I really wasn't posting an argument.
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Sep 13, 2010 21:55
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I love that at some point American exceptionalism turned into this thing where Americans believe America is exceptionally awful. It is a weird an unexpected twist in patriotism.
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Sep 17, 2010 19:02
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Yes, of all the threads this is the thread to promote the war on drugs as having positive outcomes yessssss
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Nov 3, 2010 15:15
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