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OdinsBeard
Jul 12, 2003

I don't think about my hands too much. Just trying to hit the ball in the air. Hit the ball in the air!


moist towelette posted:

I just finished this last night and I still can't decide if I really liked it or not, it started off so strong and finished well but the middle half was just so tedious for me, especially the flashback chapters. I realize that books in this genre are usually long, and it can take a while to set things up especially at the start of the series but it really felt like next to nothing happened for hundreds of pages.

I actually really like his sense of humor that pops up occasionally here and and in the wheel of time book he wrote, I can't think of an example but it took me by surprise once or twice.

Yes. As much as I enjoyed reading present day Kaladin chapters, the flashbacks really felt like a grind. They add a lot of depth to his character but it seems like Sanderson could've cut back on the flashbacks without losing much.

Flashbacks are almost never interesting in anything, though.

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soru
Apr 27, 2003

The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.


Just finished The Way of Kings, definitely loved it. I haven't read Sanderson's earlier work other than the latest Wheel of Time, but I can definitely understand the Rothfuss comparison in this. The structure where each chapter was (mostly) one person's point of view reminded me of GRRM, but where his plot thread unraveled and expanded in scope, these gradually came together. I like that.

Even the flashback chapters were well done, and I don't usually enjoy those. The strong parallels to the "present day" plot were good for developing the main character even if it was drilled in harder than necessary.

The only time I got annoyed with one was when it was inserted into the climactic battle scene as an intermission. About that scene: by the time we actually see Tien's death happen, it's been telegraphed so many times that it didn't feel very dramatic. I'm guessing it was intended to be the climax of the flashbacks corresponding to the climax of the present day battle on the Tower, but it had no tension for me.

Regardless, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Good fantasy books are rare and I'll look forward to the next one.

Fellwenner
Oct 21, 2005
Don't make me kill you.



soru posted:

The only time I got annoyed with one was when it was inserted into the climactic battle scene as an intermission. About that scene: by the time we actually see Tien's death happen, it's been telegraphed so many times that it didn't feel very dramatic. I'm guessing it was intended to be the climax of the flashbacks corresponding to the climax of the present day battle on the Tower, but it had no tension for me.

Ugh, I was so annoyed with the flashbacks I just skipped that one. Hope I didn't miss anything. I don't think I did.

fed_dude
May 31, 2004


I'm about 400 pages in and really enjoying it. There are times where I feel like he's got a checklist next to him while writing, with all the elements that make Jordan and Martin great on the list, and he's just going through one by one making sure he has those elements.

But nonetheless, very enjoyable so far. If you like epic fantasy a la Wheel of Time and Song of Ice and Fire, you'll like this. If you don't like those other things, this doesn't have anything too different to offer, so you probably won't like Sanderson, either.

It is nice to have a really good, big epic that's not written by a fat old man likely to die in the near future.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


fed_dude posted:

I'm about 400 pages in and really enjoying it. There are times where I feel like he's got a checklist next to him while writing, with all the elements that make Jordan and Martin great on the list, and he's just going through one by one making sure he has those elements.

This is what I love about Sanderson. He knows his poo poo and what's more, he knows where to look for inspiration. His style is a bit barebones at the beginning, but it picks up as the book goes along.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


fed_dude posted:

It is nice to have a really good, big epic that's not written by a fat old man likely to die in the near future.

Yeah, it's written by a younger guy who will probably give himself a heart attack before he finishes the series.

Just kidding. He'll probably finish his ten book series in about twelve years. Shine on you crazy bastard.

coffeetable
Feb 5, 2006

TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY


From his blog a while back, about what we have to look forward to:

quote:

THE WAY OF KINGS is a massive war epic of legends, mythology, and magical revolution. It's intricate, complex, and was a bit daunting for me when I thought about readying it for publication. Just to give you an idea, MISTBORN has three magic systems, KINGS has well over twenty. MISTBORN has six main viewpoint characters across the trilogy; KINGS has dozens. I wrote about 30k of background material for MISTBORN. Background material for KINGS is over 300k.

quote:

There are thirty magic systems in this world, depending on how you count them, and around six thousand years of history I've mapped out. There are dozens of cultures, a continent of enormous scope, and a deep, rich mythology. However, when I say things like that, you have to realize that very little of it will end up in the first book. The best fantasy epics I've read begin with a personal look at the characters in the early books, then have a steady expansion into epic scope.

Sexpansion
Mar 22, 2003

DELETED


Okay I'm going to read this stupid book you guys better not be wrong about it.

Expect a scathing review in 3-4 weeks (depending on when I can get it from my library).

Hizawk
Jun 18, 2004

High on the Lions.


800 pages in, enough with the god drat safehand already. Really makes the women a bit of a chore to read, because Sanderson has a hand fetish or something.

The book is still incredible.

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

Hizawk posted:

800 pages in, enough with the god drat safehand already. Really makes the women a bit of a chore to read, because Sanderson has a hand fetish or something.

The book is still incredible.

The safehand stuff didn't bother me at all. But imagine a crossover fanfic with freehands tugging braids and safehands folded under breasts (ooh sexy). That could get out of hand in a hurry, so to speak.

Get cracking goons.

mcable fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Sep 8, 2010

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

The Way of Kings debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller.

http://twitter.com/BrandonSandrson/status/23946962913

That's really impressive for the first book of a fantasy series. The Wheel of time didn't hit #1 until the eighth book (Path of Daggers) and a Song of Ice and Fire didn't until book four (A Feast for Crows).

Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

BananaNutkins
Aug 26, 2004

I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.


I've noticed a few "Smoothed down her skirt" paragraphs, but they seemed more like homage than anything. About half-way through and I think this is the best thing Sanderson has ever written. It's very anime-ish at some points, and some of the names annoy me, but its also really clever sometimes too.

anathenema
Apr 8, 2009


This book is causing me a philosophical conundrum. I like it, but I feel as though I shouldn't. In general, I think a vast range of "systems," be it world, magic or political is usually a mask for poor characters. Thus far, Kaladin seems like a good guy who is good and his foes are largely just bad guys who are bad.

I'm not making this as a judgment, yet. As I say, I do like it and I'm not even that far into it. We just jumped to Kaladin in the slave wagon.

Do his motives get fleshed out further?

soru
Apr 27, 2003

The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.


He certainly gets fleshed out a little more as it goes on. I'd say his character is about as deep or maybe slightly deeper than most in the fantasy genre.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE


Taco Defender

I'm not going to spoil anything, but yes. Yes, they do.

Keep in mind while you're reading this that it's the start of a series that's planned at ten books. If you're used to stand-alone books or trilogies, it's going to feel slower, but if you can work with that, it's a lot of fun.

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

I was actually surprised how morally ambiguous a lot of the characters ended up being. In the other Sanderson books I've read, usually the good guys are the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys, except when they're pretending to be good guys.

But in TWOK many of the "good guys" have complicated motives and a few of the "bad guys" seem to be pragmatic schemers rather than truly evil.

The only character who is truly black/white and really seems to see the world in black/white terms is Kaladin. Infuriatingly so sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I was plugged in to his story and really rooted for him. But everytime he busted out his "Lighteyes can't be trusted" routine, I wanted to punch him in the face.

Especially since when we finally see Amaram's betrayal, I was really underwhelmed. Amaram took the shardblade for himself when Kaladin turned it down. What did he think was going to happen? That's not lighteyes being evil, that's just human nature.

Whatever. There's nothing wrong with having a legitimate "white hat" in a fantasy story. It's pretty much a requirement unless your name is Martin, Abercrombie, Bakker etc.

mcable fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Sep 9, 2010

fed_dude
May 31, 2004


Final review from me: I liked it, best new fantasy in years. I haven't read his earlier books, so I dunno about the alleged improvement in his prose. They missed some words, especially in the first part of the book, but that is editing's fault. And there was one paragraph where like 10 sentences in a row started with "she." If I don't notice anything about the prose, that means it's pretty good to me. So I only noticed a couple of things in a 1,000 page book, which tells me his writing is at least decent, and better than a lot of famous authors. Tom Clancy, for instance, couldn't write himself out of 1st grade if his stories weren't so drat cool.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


I've gotta say this about the book: The audiobook version is awful. This isn't a thing that translates very well, especially early on when everything is very spelled out for the audience. The description of Lashing made me nuts.

But I started reading the actual book and it's loving awesome so there's that. Gonna read Mistborn once I'm done

taco_fox
Dec 14, 2005

Truth is, the game was rigged from the start
 

Pillbug

mcable posted:

Especially since when we finally see Amaram's betrayal, I was really underwhelmed. Amaram took the shardblade for himself when Kaladin turned it down. What did he think was going to happen? That's not lighteyes being evil, that's just human nature.

You don't think killing Kaladin's friends (who were also Amaram's soldiers) then selling him into slavery so he doesn't talk about Amaram stealing the blade isn't evil? I think we saw enough of Kaladin's history to understand why he's so bitter towards lighteyes and it's perfectly reasonable.

Dramatika
Aug 1, 2002

THE BANK IS OPEN

taco_fox posted:

You don't think killing Kaladin's friends (who were also Amaram's soldiers) then selling him into slavery so he doesn't talk about Amaram stealing the blade isn't evil? I think we saw enough of Kaladin's history to understand why he's so bitter towards lighteyes and it's perfectly reasonable.

Also, I'm pretty sure Amaram would have had him killed when he tried to take the blade and plate anyways. It was kinda implied that the lighteye would have taken credit for it regardless. At least, that's what I got out of that scene.

syphon
Jan 1, 2001


I just bought Warbreaker (a few weeks back). Should I read it next, or skip it and dive straight into this? (Either way I go, I still need to finish the Joe Abercrombie book I'm reading).

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

taco_fox posted:

You don't think killing Kaladin's friends (who were also Amaram's soldiers) then selling him into slavery so he doesn't talk about Amaram stealing the blade isn't evil? I think we saw enough of Kaladin's history to understand why he's so bitter towards lighteyes and it's perfectly reasonable.

I'm not saying that Kaladin as a character is inconsistent or unjustified in his feelings. I just don't like his character in this regard. He reminds me of the people who blame everything on race and think everybody is out to get them based on racism or reverse racism.

The world is more complex than "darkeyes good, lighteyes bad". Look no further than the darkeyes from his village who treated his family so poorly. And even his father, an ostensibly "good" man, did a "bad" thing by stealing the spheres. There's good people and bad people in the world regardless of eye color. And even good people can do bad things based on the given situation (I even kind of buy Amaram's reasoning for killing Kaladin's friends and selling him into slavery. It seemed more ruthlessly pragmatic than evil to me).

I'm not even faulting the writing here. I think it makes total sense for Kaladin to act this way considering his sheltered life, the way he put lighteyes on a pedestal and his own unflinching sense of honor and morality. But that doesn't mean that I can't be annoyed when the 50th "lighteyes are keeping me down" speech rolls around.

soru
Apr 27, 2003

The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.


mcable posted:

The world is more complex than "darkeyes good, lighteyes bad".

This is exactly what he learns at the end of the book.

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

soru posted:

This is exactly what he learns at the end of the book.

Yeah, I suppose. Here's hoping it sticks in the next book on.

Koryk
Jun 5, 2007


gently caress Sanderson is a beast. I can't wait for this next book. Is it confirmed that he's doing TSA > WOT > WOT > TSA or might we see the second TSA book before AMOL?

Dramatika
Aug 1, 2002

THE BANK IS OPEN

Koryk posted:

gently caress Sanderson is a beast. I can't wait for this next book. Is it confirmed that he's doing TSA > WOT > WOT > TSA or might we see the second TSA book before AMOL?

I'm pretty sure he's finishing up WOT, but honestly I wouldn't be upset if he threw in another TSA before AMoL or whatever the last WOT book is called.

Acronyms are fun!

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Koryk posted:

gently caress Sanderson is a beast. I can't wait for this next book. Is it confirmed that he's doing TSA > WOT > WOT > TSA or might we see the second TSA book before AMOL?

He's already done with Towers of Midnight, so there's only the final WoT book remaining.

Koryk
Jun 5, 2007


I know, I was just wondering if there was going to be another Stormlight book directly after The Towers of Midnight and before A Memory of Light, or if now that ToM is done he's going to jump right into AMoL.

I honestly don't know which series I'm anticipating more at this point.

mcable
Apr 21, 2010

https://i.imgur.com/kCXRcxe.jpg

AMOL will come first. And last I checked, BS was a bit pessimistic that AMOL would come out a year after Towers. So that's probably more like a Spring 2012 release. If I had to guess, Stormlight 2 will either come out in the Fall of 2012 or Spring 2013.

And lest you think Brandon is slacking, he'll be coming out with a young adult novel in the fall of 2011, called Scribbler. Scribbler seems to be a big favorite on Brandon's fan forum, so that might be worth checking out as well.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




This book has given me two sleepless nights but drat if they weren't worth it.

BananaNutkins
Aug 26, 2004

I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.


Still enjoying this book a lot, and it may be my new favorite fantasy universe, but I found one thing that bothers me.

At one point Dalanar is watching Adolin duel, and he starts thinking about a tradition where anyone can pay the king a fee to borrow his armor and sword for a duel. And there are some kingdoms where there are only 1 or 2 sets of shardplate.

This is basically like the president handing over the nuclear launch codes because someone with a little money wants to play missile command.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007
INSOLENT


Grimey Drawer

I think that tradition was specifically for that kingdom.

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008


pseudorandom name posted:

I think that tradition was specifically for that kingdom.

That's the impression I got.

Also, I hope it's not just me. I smell a loving massive No, Kaladin, you ARE the Voidbringers coming.

coffeetable
Feb 5, 2006

TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY


NinjaDebugger posted:

That's the impression I got.

Also, I hope it's not just me. I smell a loving massive No, Kaladin, you ARE the Voidbringers coming.

Have you finished the book?

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008


coffeetable posted:

Have you finished the book?

Yes I have, and I say this not in spite of the ending, but because of it.

It's too straightforward and pat for me. Something doesn't jive about that ending, I'm just not quite sure what yet.

Edit: To be clear, what I mean is that I really don't think Sanderson is going to lay his cards out on the table like that. That big reveal at the end is almost certainly not the whole story, even if it's not the whole story in a way I didn't expect. In his previous books, he's shown he has a way with making you think the big reveal is definitive, then turning it on its head in the next book in a way that makes perfect sense, if only you hadn't accepted the what the characters said as truth.

The big reveal was done by a character, not a reliable narrator. I don't trust it.

NinjaDebugger fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Sep 12, 2010

Neep
Jan 2, 2003

Terrorist is Prohibited!!!

NinjaDebugger posted:

Yes I have, and I say this not in spite of the ending, but because of it.

It's too straightforward and pat for me. Something doesn't jive about that ending, I'm just not quite sure what yet.

Edit: To be clear, what I mean is that I really don't think Sanderson is going to lay his cards out on the table like that. That big reveal at the end is almost certainly not the whole story, even if it's not the whole story in a way I didn't expect. In his previous books, he's shown he has a way with making you think the big reveal is definitive, then turning it on its head in the next book in a way that makes perfect sense, if only you hadn't accepted the what the characters said as truth.

The big reveal was done by a character, not a reliable narrator. I don't trust it.

I just finished the book and of the two reveals right at the end. I totally buy one and hope the other isn't what it is made out to be. Being book one of ten, I'm game for anything.

The reveal I buy: Dalinar's visions being from the one they call The Almighty

The one I hope is wrong: I hope the Parshendi aren't Voidbrjngers or as evil as they're made to sound in the histories. They seem just like another people trying to survive

OdinsBeard
Jul 12, 2003

I don't think about my hands too much. Just trying to hit the ball in the air. Hit the ball in the air!


The reveal I'd put stock in the Herald showing up at the end bringing warning of the desolation.

You may be right that not everything is as it seems, however.

Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008


Pillbug

I liked the book a great deal, I thought the characters in this book were the best that Brandon's put yet, and set a good standard over most fantasy characters. My only complaint really was the pacing of the final ending bits. It seemed to me like a Lord of the Rings Movie ending where the book probably should have ended about several chapters before it did.

Karter705
Sep 20, 2004
I HAD TO SPEND $10 TO TELL THIS DUDE HIS IDEAS ABOUT DOG BREEDING ARE RETARDED BECAUSE ~*HUG ISLAND*~

Just finished this; what a great book. I really like the world and I'm interested to see where Sanderson takes it. If any of you guys haven't read it yet, I recommend it (assuming you like fantasy). It didn't draw me in quite as thoroughly as Game of Thrones or Eye of the World, but it was pretty close.


Neep posted:

I just finished the book and of the two reveals right at the end. I totally buy one and hope the other isn't what it is made out to be. Being book one of ten, I'm game for anything.

The reveal I buy: Dalinar's visions being from the one they call The Almighty

The one I hope is wrong: I hope the Parshendi aren't Voidbrjngers or as evil as they're made to sound in the histories. They seem just like another people trying to survive

There is something odd about the Parshendi, though; it seems like the assassination of King Galivar was meant to fracture and distract the Alethi, so that they are not prepared for the Desolation. As far as we know, the only thing that benefits from that is the voidbringers, which leads me to believe that Jasnah is at least somewhat correct.

I don't think that she is right about humans enslaving the parshmen, though; it seems more likely that the Parshendi have some kind of hive mind and that the parshmen simply lost their 'queen,' which is why the Parshendi said they had no music. Seems a bit cliche, so I'm sure there is more to it than the obvious; especially since this is a ten book series.

I'm totally looking forward to the showdown between Kaladin and Szeth in book two.

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thecallahan
Nov 15, 2004

Since I was five Tara, all I've ever wanted was a Harley and cut.


Karter705 posted:

Just finished this; what a great book. I really like the world and I'm interested to see where Sanderson takes it. If any of you guys haven't read it yet, I recommend it (assuming you like fantasy). It didn't draw me in quite as thoroughly as Game of Thrones or Eye of the World, but it was pretty close.


There is something odd about the Parshendi, though; it seems like the assassination of King Galivar was meant to fracture and distract the Alethi, so that they are not prepared for the Desolation. As far as we know, the only thing that benefits from that is the voidbringers, which leads me to believe that Jasnah is at least somewhat correct.

I don't think that she is right about humans enslaving the parshmen, though; it seems more likely that the Parshendi have some kind of hive mind and that the parshmen simply lost their 'queen,' which is why the Parshendi said they had no music. Seems a bit cliche, so I'm sure there is more to it than the obvious; especially since this is a ten book series.

I'm totally looking forward to the showdown between Kaladin and Szeth in book two.


In response to your first paragraph

I don't have the book in front of me so I'm going to totally ruin the spelling. I thought the king of Kharbdrumn (the place where Jasnah and Shallan are) was responsible for that. Didn't he tell Szeth that he's always been his master?

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