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Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Sab669 posted:

My complaint with Era 2 is that because most of the characters are just Mistings they have much less interesting usages of their powers. It's just a lot of, "Make myself light and shotgun jump around in the air". Generally not a fan of guns-n-wizards in general.


By the end of Bands of Mourning I was definitely excited for the next book, even the next trilogy, but I still think Final Empire is my favorite.

It did make up for that somewhat with the combinations of allomancy and feruchemy but I did miss having full mistborn characters most of the time. Though I did appreciate the new powers from bendalloy and whatnot being a thing now.


I can see why he got rid of mistborn being a thing, because it lets him give characters feruchemy without them having an “I win” button to have to write around but drat if it isn’t kind of dissapointing.

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Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Don't worry, I imagine we'll see them again in the lost metal, as well as whomever from the Wax and Wayne books is going to end up heading to Roshar since even if Harmony can't directly act, they're likely going to send someone (mistborn or kandra, maybe both) and it wouldn't be surprising if it's someone given full mistborn and/or feruchemic abilities.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Hair Elf

Ugly In The Morning posted:

the mistborn gunfights rule.

They sure as poo poo do. The ballroom fight in The Alloy of Law was an incredible way to show how different powers could be applied and how Twinborns worked.

Also, Steris's multipage plan of contingencies and scenarios is still the best thing.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007


I really enjoyed the meeting/ferruchemist combos. Like the double gold guy was really fun. I mean not for him in the end, but as an idea.

Daric
Dec 23, 2007

Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.


Proteus Jones posted:

They sure as poo poo do. The ballroom fight in The Alloy of Law was an incredible way to show how different powers could be applied and how Twinborns worked.

Also, Steris's multipage plan of contingencies and scenarios is still the best thing.

My favorite thing was Wax increasing his weight by a crazy amount and pushing on every nail in the building by the river, completely collapsing the whole thing.

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001
You should feel ashamed.

Arrath posted:

Plus its fuckin Wild West fantasy, what's not to like.

I was gonna say the market is lacking Industrial Revolution fantasy then realized, oh, no it isn't. There's tons. Just mostly in the YA or bodice ripper bend.

I'd recommend the Powdermage series of books by Brian McClellan and Django Wexler's Shadow Campaigns. Both are fantasy series in Industrial Revolution/Napoleonic Wars style worlds.

Fezz fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 20, 2020

beathhail
Aug 21, 2015


As a warning, while the first powder mage trilogy is excellent the first book in the second one takes a really big dip (I blame the replacement of two of the major viewpoint characters)

Aggro
Apr 24, 2003

STRONG as an OX and TWICE as SMART


I even liked the first book of the second trilogy but agreed that it takes a steep dive after that, and finishes with a very unsatisfying conclusion.

There are, however, about a dozen novellas set in the powder mage world, and I enjoyed all of those.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

+1 that the 2nd powdermage trilogy had a very odd and somewhat forced-feeling end. It was still good overall and I liked most of the POV characters who weren't cocaine mages.

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


Fezz posted:

I'd recommend the Powdermage series of books by Brian McClellan and Django Wexler's Shadow Campaigns. Both are fantasy series in Industrial Revolution/Napoleonic Wars style worlds.

Already read em both. Really liked Shadow Campaigns.

SC: I really wish the Infernal Battalion had ended up being Marcus and Winter leading a unit of name-readers into battle. Dammit.

Leng
May 13, 2006



Proteus Jones posted:


Also, Steris's multipage plan of contingencies and scenarios is still the best thing.

This. The pay off for the whole plot arc amazing and that was the moment that Steris immediately became my favorite Era 2 character.

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


I finally finished Warbreaker, and it's the first Cosmere book I've disliked. I had to put it down for about six weeks due to real life stuff, so I'm probably being unfair, but nothing about the magic, the characters or the world really grabbed me. I don't mind the "avalanche" at the end of BS's books, but Warbreaker spends way too long moving pieces around the board for a lackluster payoff IMO. I also want to pull my hair out whenever Sanderson tries to write witty banter, so all of the Lightsong/Blushweaver chapters were maddening.

I'm pretty stoked to start WoR though; everything he's written since like 2010 has been a huge hit for me.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Lightsong is supposed to be a walking dad joke. That feeling is how EVERYONE in the book feels about his humor. I like to imagine there’s just a chorus of groans following him about.

But yeah, war breaker is possibly his worst book. That or Elantris, and at least Elantris has Hrathren

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



I liked it but Warbreaker's definitely one I can't actually bring myself to defend. It's really early Sanderson and I think the last thing he wrote before hitting Way of Kings, which was such a big undertaking you could watch Sanderson getting better at writing as he went through the book.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Patware posted:

you could watch Sanderson getting better at writing as he went through the book.

Yeah he did the entire writing process fron first draft to final public chapter by chapter

He thinks he has enough clout with his publisher do that with the sequel too, whenever that comes out

Artonos
Dec 3, 2018


Warbreaker was the book that Sanderson wasn't able to get published at first. He gave it away for free online for a long time before any it got officially published. It is definitely a rougher book with a few bright spots. I still think it's better than Elantris.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





here's the old wip thread

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?...08&topic=4479.0

Dr. Pangloss
Apr 5, 2014
Ask me about metaphysico-theologo-cosmolo-nigology. I'm here to help!

ConfusedUs posted:

Lightsong is supposed to be a walking dad joke. That feeling is how EVERYONE in the book feels about his humor. I like to imagine there’s just a chorus of groans following him about.

But yeah, war breaker is possibly his worst book. That or Elantris, and at least Elantris has Hrathren


Artonos posted:

Warbreaker was the book that Sanderson wasn't able to get published at first. He gave it away for free online for a long time before any it got officially published. It is definitely a rougher book with a few bright spots. I still think it's better than Elantris.

This makes me feel much better. I put off reading Elantris until just recently and it has been a serious chore to push through this thing. I actually thought the magic system was fairly interesting, but it's definitely my least favorite (pending the completion of Elantris).

I also started Alloy of Law, got two or three chapters in and haven't been back to it, which the thread will likely hate me for, based on what I've read. It was pretty jarring transition coming straight off Hero of Ages. Will probably give that another shot once I polish off Elantris.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



elantris is at least kind of interesting in that it wasn't until i actually finished the book that i realized it took place in like... i think only three different locations and nothing actually happened

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Elantris has a lot of the same problems as Warbreaker, but I found the gross run-down city a strangely dreamlike and compelling setting while Warbreaker was just boring to me.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



yeah elantris was just weird as hell. warbreaker had some interesting stuff going on but it wasn't as vivid, which is ironic when you think about how much colors came into play

JavaJesus
Jul 4, 2007



I recall Elantris being okay (although it's been a while since I read it and I only read it once, so maybe a re-read will change my opinion), but Elantris existing gave him a world on which to set The Emperor's Soul, which was amazing.

Slanderer
May 6, 2007

i'm nice


Soiled Meat

Elantris was weird and not great, and the Hoed made be uncomfortable. The protagonist was Too Perfect half the time, and the other half of the time he was Kaladin.

Daric
Dec 23, 2007

Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.


Era 2 Mistborn is vastly different than Era 1 in tone. Era 1 is dark. Really dark. Era 2 is much lighter, while still having some really hosed up things happen, but there's a lot more humor. It can be pretty jarring if you're coming straight from Hero of Ages but stick with it, they're really good.

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



I have speculated on Susebron vs. the Lord Ruler before, but on reflection I now understand why it's vastly lopsided. Susebron has complete mastery of one magic system, where the LR has completely mastered two and puzzled out a powerful synergy between them. Susebron by himself is more equivalent to a Mistborn / Feruchemist with full metalminds. That would be a fight for the judges.

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

Ball Hard Enough.


I gotta be honest, I thought Lightsong/Blushweaver's "witty" banter was a lot actually wittier than Shallan in Way of Kings , who is painful to read sometime.

Leng
May 13, 2006



AndrewP posted:

I gotta be honest, I thought Lightsong/Blushweaver's "witty" banter was a lot actually wittier than Shallan in Way of Kings , who is painful to read sometime.

Shallan is like Jane Austen high regency type of humor done badly on purpose because trauma, not because Shallan is actually funny.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Slanderer posted:

Elantris was weird and not great, and the Hoed made be uncomfortable. The protagonist was Too Perfect half the time, and the other half of the time he was Kaladin.

The hoed and all that stuff made me uncomfortable too, but in a way I thought was good. Not a great book but it had some real grimdark potential.

Velius
Feb 27, 2001


Soiled Meat

The twist in Warbreaker where (spoilers, obviously) Vivenna is actually helping the bad guys and her bodyguards were actually evil was pretty interesting in theory, but I feel like the execution wasn’t great. It felt like Sanderson wanted to explore the idea but didn’t put forth the effort to make any of them have meaningful motivations or backstories that could be explained in the story. Instead we just get way too many of the players of some centuries old drama coincidentally showing up in the same place which just happens to also be the setting of Warbreaker.

mossyfisk
Nov 8, 2010

FF0000


Warbreaker is a book about how the rich and powerful literally consume the spirits of the poor and use their bodies to violently enforce the social order.

Also they are the heroes.

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire

mossyfisk posted:

Warbreaker is a book about how the rich and powerful literally consume the spirits of the poor and use their bodies to violently enforce the social order.

Also they are the heroes.

As opposed to real life where that's only a very apt metaphor.

Warbreaker is in the same boat as Elantris where the actual story is only okay, the magic system isn't nearly well explored enough, and the avalanche happens so late and so quickly the book is over just as it's getting good.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



warbreaker's system STINKS of a magic system someone came up with in the back of their notebook in high school, having put together several similar things in the backs of my notebooks in high school. everything all numbered out and listed out

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


When I finished Elantris, my main thought was "Hey wait a minute; you were just getting good!" With Warbreaker it was "Well at least that's over." Aside from just being weaker due to coming earlier in his career, I think the standalones suffer because he has to spend so much time setting everything up. With the longer series, you know the investment is worth it because he can spend subsequent books paying everything off.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Warbreaker wasn't good per sé but it was interesting and I really wanna know how it played out and how nightblood ended up where he did. Same thing really with Elantris, I think they both should get sequels, now that he is a lot better as a writer to boot.

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

Patware posted:

warbreaker's system STINKS of a magic system someone came up with in the back of their notebook in high school, having put together several similar things in the backs of my notebooks in high school. everything all numbered out and listed out

Warbreaker strikes me as a magic system that is on the cusp of becoming very interesting. Its only been practiced on planet for a few hundred years. The nature of “awakening” is basically transferring larges numbers of human soul chunks (breaths) into an inanimate object along with a command to cause it to preform a very complex task independently. Those breaths are in a way granting temporary and specific sentience to the awakened object.

I think the interesting question to explore in the potential sequels is what happens if those breaths are just left/forgotten in the awakened object (especially if the awakener in question is killed). Are various mundane objects about to develop autonomy and sentience?

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Hair Elf

Subvisual Haze posted:

Warbreaker strikes me as a magic system that is on the cusp of becoming very interesting. Its only been practiced on planet for a few hundred years. The nature of “awakening” is basically transferring larges numbers of human soul chunks (breaths) into an inanimate object along with a command to cause it to preform a very complex task independently. Those breaths are in a way granting temporary and specific sentience to the awakened object.

I think the interesting question to explore in the potential sequels is what happens if those breaths are just left/forgotten in the awakened object (especially if the awakener in question is killed). Are various mundane objects about to develop autonomy and sentience?

Nightblood seems sentient to me. Thank god it doesn't have autonomy when it's in its sheath.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



I was way less critical of Warbreaker than you guys, I mostly enjoyed but I do recall thinking the end didn't quite "hit" like I expected a Sanderson book to.
I thought it was a cool setting, glimpsing a fantasy city "rich enough to support restaurants" and things like that.

Subvisual Haze posted:

Warbreaker strikes me as a magic system that is on the cusp of becoming very interesting ... The nature of “awakening” is basically transferring larges numbers of human soul chunks (breaths)

I'm in the same boat, I think the sequel will bring much more interesting things, and learn about the "spirit-realm implications" on the bigger Cosmere scale when people lose breaths. Like Drabs are a really interesting idea to me.


and Nightblood is the best, fight me

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

Proteus Jones posted:

Nightblood seems sentient to me. Thank god it doesn't have autonomy when it's in its sheath.

Yep, but Nightblood was a pretty singular case requiring an enormous amount of breaths and given a clear directive. So theoretically he's one of a kind (or so the universe prays).

I'm curious if a pair of pants that had 100 soul chunks stuck to it purely for storage purposes (no command) will develop a sort of AI like intelligence over time. Or if a rope given the command "protect me" evolves into that planet's equivalent of a spren or guardian spirit.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



creating nightblood required someone with 20k breaths to use 1,000 and it's still pretty stupid

i think you'd have to leave a lot of breaths lying around in something to risk it self-actualizing independently

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SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire

I wonder what the best command would be to give a Type IV Biochromatic Entity, since "Destroy Evil' obviously has its problems.

Like could you create a sort of Bob the Skull with a command like "Answer Questions", or could you create a magical battery with "Store Investiture"? Anything weaponized is an obvious problem because the sentient items are lacking in human morality and can be directed by someone nefarious, so can you just make super good miscellaneous magic items? If you make something with mobility can it animate? Nightblood is obviously immobile because it's a sword, but could you make a type IV out of something that can articulate and move?

How hosed up would it be to create a tiny doll with the command "Kill Humans"?

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