|
Mistborn Era 2: Harmony is the Supreme Kai. They come across as extraordinarily enlightened and powerful at first -- and they legitimately are. As time goes on, however, we learn that they're relative newcomers to the divinity gang and that there's a lot of moving parts in ancient plots that they are furiously trying to figure out. Stormlight: Honor is Daikaioh. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Mar 19, 2021 |
#
?
Mar 19, 2021 14:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:30 |
|
|
Potato Salad posted:Mistborn Era 2: Harmony is the Supreme Kai. They come across as extraordinarily enlightened and powerful at first -- and they legitimately are. As time goes on, however, we learn that they're relative newcomers to the divinity gang and that there's a lot of moving parts in ancient plots that they are furiously trying to figure out. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
Started a Mistborn reread (but I remember almost nothing). I felt so dumb when within 2 pages I understood the Lord of Scars reference from RoW.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I appreciate the need to skip ahead a bit, to move along o everyone having a more established footing, but I'm really bugged by the total lack of interest so far in the fact they had two Heralds to interrogate. That had to be one of the biggest and most intriguing ending points from Oathbringer. I figured they'd get away but no, they were cornered and brought in and undoubtedly have infinite cool things to tell our heroes. It's not really forgotten but Brandon kind of hand waves it away IMO. It also bothered me. Spoilers for later in the book: Jasnah has interrogated them a bunch but mostly says they are either uncooperative or don't remember things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
Latest weekly update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd9cV0S_qXw Skyward 3 Draft 4.0 at 92% which he thinks he'll finish tonight and plans to start the final 5.0 polish draft on Friday. Plus some questions about what people want for leatherbounds at which point I tuned out because nice as those are they are PRICEY.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 07:16
|
|
|
Secret History question: Is the idea that if Kelsier kept walking and following that glowing cord, that he'd eventually get to Elantris?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
I don't think we know for sure exactly where that comes from.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
RoW question This is more real world history question but is the account flashback Eshonai gives of how the Listeners fought among themselves based on anything in real world history? Just like how it's highly ritualized and only involves a couple dozen people dying at most?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 09:34
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:RoW question I don't have explicit sources for you, but here's even a handy-dandy wikipedia article that might lead you towards some information. I remember the topic coming up as described, in an anthropology course I took way back when, but I can't speak to how much of that is rooted in historical evidence versus more modern speculation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 10:09
|
|
|
there's also a fair amount of 'what if our best guy duels your best guy instead of us all fighting?' throughout the ancient world, which probably makes a lot of sense before professional armies exist when you're relying on nobility that have all the good gear
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 13:04
|
|
|
eke out posted:there's also a fair amount of 'what if our best guy duels your best guy instead of us all fighting?' throughout the ancient world, which probably makes a lot of sense before professional armies exist when you're relying on nobility that have all the good gear David and Goliath is a notable example from the judeochristian tradition And yeah, standing armies weren't common. Even the American Civil War had "oh you rustled up several hundred men? Ok you get to be a general of them" with no qualifications for the quality of the men or their leader.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 14:30
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:David and Goliath is a notable example from the judeochristian tradition yeah see also: a great deal of dueling in the Iliad. let the rich guys who can afford actual armor duel if they want to, no skin off my back, i'll watch from a safe distance
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 14:53
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:RoW question We did a study on this during a history seminar, but you're essentially describing tribal warfare. Ritualized raids and attacks, which are largely symbolic and result in low casualties. The common example would be the Native Americans of the plains "counting coup" against the other tribe. It might be more impressive and better for their prestige to have slapped 10 enemy combatants in the face and stolen 2 horses than to kill during a raid. So called "advancing" human society results in larger and larger scale battles, the idea of killing the enemy formation until it breaks (and can be killed more during it's retreat), culminating in eventual total warfare against the enemy populace. The more civilized a society, the more lovely the war. I had a really good professor that wrote a book about endemic warfare, (which is basically what you are describing), I'm trying to remember what it was called and what the hell I did with my copy. edit: "The Skulking Way of War" deals with the initial interactions between the New England tribes and the first English settlers, and is a pretty good academic look at that time. ElGroucho fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Mar 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:David and Goliath is a notable example from the judeochristian tradition You didn't do anything wrong in this case, but Abrahamic is a better term for stuff like that. Judeochristian had some positive inclusive use originally but these days is used for false inclusion, Evangelicals claiming a multicultural support for their doctrine and stuff like that. Judaism is treated as a proto-Christianity that can just be tacked on and assumed in total agreement. That's generally in regards to the term "judeochristian values" or similar uses of interpretation as opposed to a flat statement like you used, but it's still something to avoid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 23:24
|
|
|
Thanks for the replies and info everyone. I just reached the end of Part 3. RoW is one long exercise in our heroes losing. Makes me wonder if this book will end with even more failure. After all, the next book has to be the end of "Era 1 " of TSA and thus must presumably have something resembling a happy ending. But maybe to go into that, our heroes have to be at a weakened position. I'm sure they'll get the tower back by the end of RoW but Raboniel is so enigmatic that I'm just waiting for her to spring her ultimate trap. Happy about Taravangian continuing the fight. That was always my read of his last scene in Oathbringer but some people I know said he was just giving up and fully submitting to Odium. I guess he kinda did but then reversed it so maybe we were both right. But yeah, Taravangian, Dalinar, Kaladin and Szeth are my favorite TSA characters. They're at the top. More middling is Navani and some others who I do like but not as much as the first four. Raboniel intrigues me because I just wanna know what she's all about. I guess it will depend on what she is all about for me to determine if I really like her.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:You didn't do anything wrong in this case, but Abrahamic is a better term for stuff like that. Judeochristian had some positive inclusive use originally but these days is used for false inclusion, Evangelicals claiming a multicultural support for their doctrine and stuff like that. Judaism is treated as a proto-Christianity that can just be tacked on and assumed in total agreement. That's generally in regards to the term "judeochristian values" or similar uses of interpretation as opposed to a flat statement like you used, but it's still something to avoid. It’s also often used to sideline and diminish Islam! 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:You didn't do anything wrong in this case, but Abrahamic is a better term for stuff like that. Judeochristian had some positive inclusive use originally but these days is used for false inclusion, Evangelicals claiming a multicultural support for their doctrine and stuff like that. Judaism is treated as a proto-Christianity that can just be tacked on and assumed in total agreement. That's generally in regards to the term "judeochristian values" or similar uses of interpretation as opposed to a flat statement like you used, but it's still something to avoid. Thank you for this, I completely blanked on the term and couldn't remember it for the life of me 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
Captain Monkey posted:It’s also often used to sideline and diminish Islam! It can be a subtle one. Bugged me for years and then when I started figuring out the words to explain why it opened up a lot of stuff I hadn't been seeing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 04:33
|
|
|
I finished Elantris. I enjoyed it well enough as sort of a proto-Sanderson. I didn't find the Sarene stuff as draggy as some others in the thread did, but I do agree that Hrathen was by far the most interesting character. Book would have been much better if he and his stumbles in Arelon leading to his crisis of faith got more focus; I thought Dilaf was going to turn out to be a literal demon put there to test him and his resolve. The late reveal of Dilaf's motivation for hating Elantris was also real weak.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
Tokelau All Star posted:I finished Elantris. I enjoyed it well enough as sort of a proto-Sanderson. I didn't find the Sarene stuff as draggy as some others in the thread did, but I do agree that Hrathen was by far the most interesting character. Book would have been much better if he and his stumbles in Arelon leading to his crisis of faith got more focus; I thought Dilaf was going to turn out to be a literal demon put there to test him and his resolve. The late reveal of Dilaf's motivation for hating Elantris was also real weak. I think that another problem with Dilaf is that he is only ever really in the Hrathen chapters, so he doesn’t work as an antagonist to Sarene and Raoden. You could argue that Iadon is Sarene’s antagonist and the gang bosses are Raoden’s antagonists, but that isn’t very satisfying. I feel like the greatest weaknesses of Elantris are: the lack of a proper antagonist and there are too many characters that serve no point in the narrative and add nothing to the story.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
So finished ROW. Questions first: 1. Are we to believe Nale's claim that Gavilar intended to betray the Listeners? To what end? 2. What are we to make of what Odium did to Wit? I figured he was gonna try to destroy all his "memories" but surely he did more than just erase their first meeting? Can he like corrupt all Wit's memories? 3. This isn't strictly about ROW but I was trying to piece together bits from the earlier novels and I just realized, what was up with that totally immortal guy from I think Way of Kings interlude? I remember he was naked and blue and in n alley and being executed was a huge joke to him because he'd just pop up again later? I think Rysn saw him bound up on that giant moving island. 4. Will we ever get more info on Nohadon? Was he really just a pretty cool but relatively unremarkable king? Odium's taunt to Dalinar really made me think Nohadon had been something grander, more significant. Now onto comments: I read some earlier talk and agree this was the weakest TSA novel so far. It had a tough act to follow since Oathbringer was my favorite. It still had many great moments, especially at the end, but I really do think a lot of it was superfluous, especially some of the flashbacks. Bawled like a baby with Teft and Tien. Speaking of T's, I've loved Taravangian ever since the reveal at the end of Way of Kings. Everybody I talked to was like "of course he'll lose." And I was like "sure, and do people seriously think Stannis is gonna get the Iron Throne/ But you still cheer anyway." I figured Taravangian would lose but go out spectacularly. I underestimated my favorite non-Dalinar TSA character. I understand Sanderson has a big plan, and that's cool and good, but even the best artist must adapt to both their own changing views and the reception of the audience. My impression is a lot of people did not much care for Rayse/Odium. I don't agree but could Sanderson have changed his mind on him being the Big Bad and shifted Taravangian into the role instead? As is usual with me, I'll probably have more thoughts and questions later when they just randomly pop into my mind. Overall, pretty fun. I should probably reread Mistborn Era 2. Although no rush on that, doesn't look like the next one is coming for quite some time. Probably should read Arcanum Unbounded instead. I still haven't gotten through it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 07:17
|
|
|
tara was always intended for this role in the current version, though in WoK Prime who knows, since renarin had the diagram there
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 07:40
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:So finished ROW. 1.I'm not sure on that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the prologue of book 5 were from Gavilar's perspective, giving us all the answers. 2.This scene is incredibly ambiguous. There are quite a few people who argue that this meeting did actually go according to Wit's plan. Or it went horribly wrong, and Odium now has a way to secretly control or steer Hoid. Or he "just" erased the first memory of their encounter, to hide his new identity. I don't think he could have erased all those memories, this probably would have violated the "must not harm Hoid" agreement they apparently made. But this is clearly one of the bigger sequel hooks, so we'll have to RAFO. 3.That's Axies, a Siah Aimian (not to a Dysian Aimian, a.k.a. bug horde people). We don't know much about them, but they are apparently as hard to kill (and as long lived) as their Dysian cousins. 4.He definitely was very significant. Oathbringer makes it pretty clear that he was special, imho. But it's another instance of us having to wait for the next book(s) to find out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 09:41
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:So finished ROW. Torrannor posted:1.I'm not sure on that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the prologue of book 5 were from Gavilar's perspective, giving us all the answers. On #1 Gavilar has been confirmed as the prologue POV for Book 5 for a while now, I think since a little after the release of Oathbringer On #4 one of the biggest mysteries is that Dalinar had 2 visions which didn't come from the Stormfather–including the one with Nohadon and the thunderclast. Huge RAFO and mystery as to the source of those! NikkolasKing posted:Now onto comments: He actually talked about the decisions around this one: Arcanum posted:Ian Weiry Writer
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 12:22
|
|
|
I am getting towards the latter parts of The Hero of Ages and while I'm getting increasingly worried about the ability to satisfyingly wrap up a story like this in the amount of pages remaining, I am enjoying it a whole lot more than the second Mistborn book. Some things are not resonating with me, especially the habit of multiple characters going back and trying to act like the Lord Ruler was ultimately not evil or was ultimately well-meaning despite everything the character has ever displayed or had spoken about him but other subplots I didn't believe I cared all that much about are being resolved in interesting and satisfying ways so I have some hope it'll course correct on that before the end.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 12:40
|
|
|
Reaverbot posted:I am getting towards the latter parts of The Hero of Ages and while I'm getting increasingly worried about the ability to satisfyingly wrap up a story like this in the amount of pages remaining, I am enjoying it a whole lot more than the second Mistborn book. Some things are not resonating with me, especially the habit of multiple characters going back and trying to act like the Lord Ruler was ultimately not evil or was ultimately well-meaning despite everything the character has ever displayed or had spoken about him but other subplots I didn't believe I cared all that much about are being resolved in interesting and satisfying ways so I have some hope it'll course correct on that before the end. You know the part of the show/game/movie where the anime music with lyrics kick in and everything is crazy and awesome? That’s the Hero of Ages Sanderlanche.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 14:13
|
|
|
I think I'm done with cosmere books. Shallan, who I used to really like, is dreadful now. Kaladin isn't getting better, he's getting more emo. I don't give a poo poo about Venli, she could melt in acid and I would be ok with that. Rlain gets no attention. Jasnah, the best character, has faded in to the background. And Navani, pulls a reverse Einstein, and develops a superweapon for the enemy, because ???. If Oppenheimer gets kidnapped by the Germans in WW2, I don't think he'd keep doing science, what the gently caress. The psuedo-science magic poo poo is of zero interest to me. My mind is blown when I read reviews on goodreads and people gush over it. I don't care. It's god magic, move the plot along, please. I don't know if I can get myself to give a poo poo anymore. I don't want to read 8 other books outside the series to understand what the hell is really going on. This series needs an editor with a huge red marker, badly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
ElGroucho posted:I think I'm done with cosmere books. Wait what? What did you hate about her character/arc in RoW? It was pretty fulfilling for me and made me immediately go back over her chapters in the first three books to look for the foreshadowing and what else I missed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 14:51
|
|
|
Leng posted:Wait what? What did you hate about her character/arc in RoW? It was pretty fulfilling for me and made me immediately go back over her chapters in the first three books to look for the foreshadowing and what else I missed. It was poorly telegraphed. Who is this mystery person that did this mystery thing? Whooooooooo could it be, now?????
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 14:56
|
|
|
Shallan / all of ROW in case ElGroucho is giving up mid-book? I kinda didn't care that she offed Ialai, or her parents and I don't think any of those actions were of real consequence which is why it just felt kind of like, "Oh yea btw I did X". Kind of like Adolin not seeing any repercussions for Sadeas. Like it's a thing that happened, but it's not really a focal point of any real story arc. The twist with Pattern not being her OG spren was pretty cool though. I wouldn't say I found her arc fulfilling but I was relieved she seems to have found some sort of harmony amongst her alter identities. I did enjoy the higher level of the Navani arc, but also I did think he got too far down into the details of the physics of it all. I do think it made sense for someone with a deep sense of imposter syndrome to be excited to be given an opportunity to do real science instead of being a project manager at best.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
Reaverbot posted:I am getting towards the latter parts of The Hero of Ages and while I'm getting increasingly worried about the ability to satisfyingly wrap up a story like this in the amount of pages remaining, I am enjoying it a whole lot more than the second Mistborn book. Some things are not resonating with me, especially the habit of multiple characters going back and trying to act like the Lord Ruler was ultimately not evil or was ultimately well-meaning despite everything the character has ever displayed or had spoken about him but other subplots I didn't believe I cared all that much about are being resolved in interesting and satisfying ways so I have some hope it'll course correct on that before the end. Most people found the 2nd mistborn book to be the weakest. The third wraps up pretty dramatically so I think you'll be satisfied.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
Leng posted:Wait what? What did you hate about her character/arc in RoW? It was pretty fulfilling for me and made me immediately go back over her chapters in the first three books to look for the foreshadowing and what else I missed. I'm far from being done with the cosmere but I'm with that poster on Shallan. Her arc this book was extremely tedious and uninteresting. I have no idea how true to life the depiction of multiple personalities was, but I suspect it's something almost no readers can truly connect with due to how extreme it was. Her separate identities were all immensely boring, and their internal conflicts were tedious and never really drove the plot anywhere. She spent essentially the entire book in stagnation - she never made any important decisions, she made no progress as a character, and every time we read about her all she's doing is brooding and being an rear end in a top hat to Adolin and Pattern, probably the two most genuine and nice characters in the whole cosmere. Which is the other problem. Their relationship is really really bad. It's probably the worst written relationship I've ever read in any book. The characters do not mesh at all, and any connection they have is always through extremely awkward banter, even after 4 books. And being as how Adolin is Mr Perfect there is no room for interesting conflict - he is never going to leave her because he's way too caring and nice, and so she just continually abuses and mistreats him and lies to him without consequence. This book would have ended WAY better if he had left her after she lied to him and planned a murder, like wtf. Them just being all chill and five at the end after that was super weird. And getting to the murder... The "twist" that she was the imposter was the least surprising thing in the universe. Like was there a single person who didn't see that coming a mile away? The plot device of her having suppressed personalities due to suppressed memories has been done already - like we get how it works and how it's going to end, it is not interesting or surprising anymore. The final twist of Pattern not being her first spren was more interesting, but it was also telegraphed pretty hard near the end, and at that point you're so disconnected from her story due to not caring what the hell happens to her that it's not very impactful. Honestly she's always been the weakest point of the series, but she did have a really genuine and interesting arc in book 2, but sadly ever since then it's just been a nosedive, ending in a total splat in this book. It would have been better if she died.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 18:03
|
|
|
Taffer posted:I'm far from being done with the cosmere but I'm with that poster on Shallan. Her arc this book was extremely tedious and uninteresting. I have no idea how true to life the depiction of multiple personalities was, but I suspect it's something almost no readers can truly connect with due to how extreme it was. Her separate identities were all immensely boring, and their internal conflicts were tedious and never really drove the plot anywhere. She spent essentially the entire book in stagnation - she never made any important decisions, she made no progress as a character, and every time we read about her all she's doing is brooding and being an rear end in a top hat to Adolin and Pattern, probably the two most genuine and nice characters in the whole cosmere. Yea, I think whether the character had 1 personality or 20, she would have been doing the exact same things with regards to infiltrating the Ghostbloods and then backing out to stay with The Good Guys. The existence of Veil/Radiant never seems to have actually push Shallan to have done something she wasn't already bound to do. A good friend of mine who is a mental health counselor seems to think Sanderson's depiction of it with her are pretty accurate, but I've never known anyone like that to compare the two (never mind living it). Eternal Sad Brain Kaladin is probably much easier to understand for those who haven't had depression, and it's definitely on point (at least with my experiences) in its depiction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
I have a bachelor's in psych that I never used, but my opinion is that his treatment of Shallan and her MPD/DID is extremely fantastical in both her outward behavior and how she thinks about herself. Like it doesn't even pass the medical drama wacky patient of the week believability test. But I honestly think that's ok, it's fantasy and the idea is that she has a superpower that augments her external functionality as well as her internal ability to maintain cognitive dissonance through wilful delusions and partitioning. And as was mentioned, it worked pretty well in book 2. The writing and plotting of her story line in RoW just doesn't support the ambitious character that he's been building up to. All the interactions with other protagonists and the newly introduced who-gives-a-poo poo antagonists feel less than genuine, fully in service to an obvious plot "twist", or role played off her character sheet attributes rather than something that is a real evolution of the character.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
I was way more into Dawnshard than I ever was RoW. The Navani chapters were just a chore in college science reading, I doooon't caaaare when it goes through the whole book. I do however care about these two weird species in Aimia, ones that literally are made of thousands of crabs. Or literally anything else. Barreft fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 02:55
|
|
|
I think RoW would have been awesome if the flashbacks had been the Sibling
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 03:02
|
|
|
Rysns and Lopens story was cool as hell in Dawnshard and there's no reason it couldn't have been in RoW instead of the many Navani video game tutorials.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 03:16
|
|
|
I thought one of the reasons for releasing Dawnshard was that it Aimia was supposed to be a big part of RoW? However the main points were that overlapped seemed to be the airship, and to a lesser extent Lopen having his shardblade and Rock's daughter having shardplate?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 05:40
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:I thought one of the reasons for releasing Dawnshard was that it Aimia was supposed to be a big part of RoW? However the main points were that overlapped seemed to be the airship, and to a lesser extent Lopen having his shardblade and Rock's daughter having shardplate? Yeah there were some "connections" but honestly they were extremely slight. I think it'll be book 5 before the elements from Dawnshard really play a big role in stormlight as a whole, Lopen and Cord really played almost no role in book 4 besides the segment with the king of Rheshi Isles. I do think it's pretty obvious though that Rysn's story will play a huge role in stormlight going forward, likely the rest of the cosmere as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 08:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:30 |
|
|
Thinkin' bout RoW and is that '16' dude in Lasting Integrity going to end up being Szeth's father? He's described as Shin, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 11:29
|
|