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Bearserker posted:Memory of Light was the last book in the Wheel of Time series that Sanderson finished following the original author's death and the character in question is named Emarin. All of the characters mentioned are relatively unimportant in their respective books and easy to forget which is why I asked. Ah, I never made it past the third book in the Wheel of Time. I know he finished it, but that's probably why it didn't ring any bells. I'll give him the nod insofar as I would have assumed that he didn't have any gay characters period in his books, but I'm apparently wrong on that. I will maintain the criticism that it's a bit undercut by no main characters who are gay, and no actual representation of their relationships. So, it's kind of like the SF/Fantasy staple of having non-white characters in minor roles where they're technically in a book, but we only really follow/are meant to care about the white people. But much like the aforementioned issue of racial representation, that criticism can be pretty widely leveled against the genre, so it's not really a Sanderson specific problem.
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Jul 21, 2014 10:59
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Karnegal posted:Ah, I never made it past the third book in the Wheel of Time. I know he finished it, but that's probably why it didn't ring any bells. I'll give him the nod insofar as I would have assumed that he didn't have any gay characters period in his books, but I'm apparently wrong on that. This suggests that a work can't be legitimate, its author a bigot, unless they go out of their way to include openly gay characters in primary leading roles. Perhaps the story, or this portion of it, that he wishes to tell just doesn't have gay folks in leading roles? Maybe that will change, maybe it won't. What difference does it make? Including Character X to merely check off a box is the definition of a token character, be they a lead or side character. As an aside most of the main cast of characters in WoK (as far as Earth ethnicity can be applied to them) are essentially Indian. Shallan is a notable exception and many characters remark on her red hair and pale skin because its so out of the ordinary. Sanderson doesn't bring the general issue up much because its totally incidental, and unimportant, to the actual story being told.
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Jul 21, 2014 18:03
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But by then we've already shifted the goalposts from "this author is an active religious bigot" so
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Jul 21, 2014 18:36
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treeboy posted:This suggests that a work can't be legitimate, its author a bigot, unless they go out of their way to include openly gay characters in primary leading roles. Perhaps the story, or this portion of it, that he wishes to tell just doesn't have gay folks in leading roles? Maybe that will change, maybe it won't. What difference does it make? Including Character X to merely check off a box is the definition of a token character, be they a lead or side character. No, the post suggests that the genre as a whole (not just Sanderson specifically) have issue representing characters who are non-white and straight. And this parallels how Sanderson specifically lacks prominent non-straight characters. I'm not accusing him of having no representation of any sort of minorities. He's not exemplary in that regard, but he's a bit better than average. As to whether you'd call Sanderson a bigot, I suppose that depends on your usage of the term. In regard to sexuality. I can point you to a quote where he says that gay people shouldn't act on sexual attraction because his religious officials say so. But he also says they should have the same legal rights. He seems to have a "hate the sin not the sinner" attitude, which is condescending, but not openly hostile. The critique itself doesn't mean that books can't be good without diverse representations, just like how there are plenty of "legitimate" movies even though main stream cinema has a serious problem with giving women, non-straight people, and people of color prominent roles beyond token character, love interest (in the case of women), or passive object. It doesn't make every film bad, but it does illustrate a problem in the media as a whole. And, on the whole, SF/Fantasy (particularly popular SF/Fantasy) does have a problem with representing people other than straight white males. The all-white people thing, is being used as an analogy to explain the lack of representation. The critique of having all-white or all white with token ethnic character casts was leveled at the genre generally not at Sanderson specifically. As an aside, I'll admit that, I didn't catch that the Alethi are supposed to be Indian. I know they eat curry, but "tanned" in fantasy usually reads as slightly exotic white people. Admittedly, my assumptions of what Alethi look like are probably being heavily influenced by the image of Kaladin on the cover of WOR, who appears to be a white dude. Remarks on Shallan as pale skinned didn't seem like a solid indicator to me because red-haired pale girls are usually described as exceedingly pale in novels - even in a cast of other white people. The reason I made the initial remarks about religion are due to the posts I've quoted from his blog along with other posts where he talks about privilege. It seems he's aware of his privilege as a straight white guy in a way that other popular genre authors (like Rothfus) are totally oblivious to, which makes the lack of significant gay characters a bit striking by contrast. The guy has written a poo poo load of books, so I have a hard time buying into "the story [...] that he wishes to tell just doesn't have gay folks in leading roles" (why not, if it has straight folks in leading roles?) . If he hasn't done it at this point, it seems unlikely he will unless he has a serious change of beliefs. Again, I'm not saying that he is universally bad at representation. His best work has a single main character who is an Asian woman. In act, it's that sort of awareness that makes the lack of gay characters so seemingly out of place. It's because of his awareness and his representation of minority groups elsewhere that I have a hard time seeing the omission of prominent gay characters as due to something other than his religion. My initial post was probably extra bitter about it because when I made it, we were in the immediate aftermath of some regressive national policy my country made that was catering to sexist religious extremism. So, I was likely pre-disposed to being mad about extremist religion more so than usual.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:42
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Karnegal posted:No, the post suggests that the genre as a whole (not just Sanderson specifically) have issue representing characters who are non-white and straight. And this parallels how Sanderson specifically lacks prominent non-straight characters. I'm not accusing him of having no representation of any sort of minorities. He's not exemplary in that regard, but he's a bit better than average. As to whether you'd call Sanderson a bigot, I suppose that depends on your usage of the term. In regard to sexuality. I can point you to a quote where he says that gay people shouldn't act on sexual attraction because his religious officials say so. But he also says they should have the same legal rights. He seems to have a "hate the sin not the sinner" attitude, which is condescending, but not openly hostile. Ok.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:04
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If you've read Sanderson's annotations for Mistborn, he indicates Sazed's crisis and views on religion by the end of the series are very similar to his own. This is actually a really common Mormon thing, since many Mormons don't buy into the crazier aspects of the faith's beliefs and instead focus on how the religion shapes them into being good/righteous/caring individuals. People that are saying that Sanderson doesn't include cussing/homosexuality/whatever because he's a Mormon need to get a reality check. On some parts, like swearing, he might be less inclined to include it or find alternatives which is to be expected, but he does a pretty good job of not excluding these things from his writing (such as the sex scene in Warbreaker). Religion itself is very frequently a common theme in almost all of his books. A lot of conflict in his books come from people with different religious beliefs, and there's never a clear winner or 'correct' belief to follow. This mirrors real life really well. If you can't stand the idea of religion being a centerpoint in a story, then Sanderson really won't be the author for you. He's one of the few religious authors who regularly include religion as a theme in their books that doesn't just turn everything into a Christ allegory, though, which is why I find his writing so attractive. That said, over the last month and a half I read just about everything he's ever published. I started with Mistborn, read Stormlight somewhere in the middle, and finished with Elantris/The Emperor's Soul. It was probably a bad idea to start with some of his best written novels and end with Elantris - the book is a very rough read compared to everything he's written since, but I guess that's to be expected from his first published work. Sarene & Raoden are just a little -too- good at everything they do, and they only fails when it's convenient to the story. I really enjoyed Hrathen's story arc and progression throughout the book, though, and the conclusion to his story in it saved the book for me. The Emperor's Soul is probably the best novella I've ever read. The characterization in the book is excellent and it's a very compelling story. If you haven't read it, go and do so. So, from what I understand, the way Sanderson writes means it's likely going to be well over 5 years before we see the second Mistborn trilogy, huh? Stormlight is his current heavy hitter, and he's writing two Alloy-era novels in-between along with his other works, so it doesn't seem like he'll have room for another epic trilogy for a while. Also, has he said anything about a Warbreaker sequel, since that story is left open-ended?
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Jul 21, 2014 21:24
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treeboy posted:This suggests that a work can't be legitimate, its author a bigot, unless they go out of their way to include openly gay characters in primary leading roles. That's not even close to what he said.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:50
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They're all gay, don't you see?
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Jul 22, 2014 03:44
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Karnegal posted:No, the post suggests that the genre as a whole (not just Sanderson specifically) have issue representing characters who are non-white and straight. And this parallels how Sanderson specifically lacks prominent non-straight characters. I'm not accusing him of having no representation of any sort of minorities. He's not exemplary in that regard, but he's a bit better than average. As to whether you'd call Sanderson a bigot, I suppose that depends on your usage of the term. In regard to sexuality. I can point you to a quote where he says that gay people shouldn't act on sexual attraction because his religious officials say so. But he also says they should have the same legal rights. He seems to have a "hate the sin not the sinner" attitude, which is condescending, but not openly hostile. Your frustrations and confusion are valid, but I think you're a bit off base about the underlying reasons for his lack of LGBTQ characters. Have you listened to his Writing Excuses podcast? He has had gay and trans* people on before, and Brandon is polite and just as friendly as he would be with any guest. They talk a lot about including diversity in their writing; in fact, creating novels that appeal to large audiences is a major theme in the podcast. Incidentally, that's also why his writing is somewhat "cleaner" than certain other modern fantasy authors. I would bet good money that the reason that BranSan hasn't had a major LGBTQ character is because he is afraid of not writing them well and realistically. His religion plays a bit into that fear, in that he had likely very limited exposure to LGBTQ people while growing up. Thus, he does not feel comfortable writing about someone who may take great offense at his ignorance. He is a very thoughtful and kind dude, though, and I bet if you outright asked him he would say that he would love to include a major LGBTQ character some day, when he knows he can do it in a skillful way that doesn't make them a "token" character. Hell, knowing him he probably already has a trilogy with such a character in the preplanning stages.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:48
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Riftling posted:Also, has he said anything about a Warbreaker sequel, since that story is left open-ended? Personally I hope he never wastes his time writing a sequel to Warbreaker. The story was boring, the magic system dull and weak (except for like, a couple of people who can harness it with some serious power) and the characters uninteresting. The world itself was boring and underdeveloped and felt small as heck. It was basically the one main city and the one smaller country of "rebels" to the north, and that's it. Also, way too much "everyone is secretly those famous people from historical events long ago" poo poo going on, even compared the Elantris. Oddly enough, for someone who dislikes the book, I seemed to light Lightsong a lot more than most. He was my favorite character of the bunch. I'd much rather him power through Stormlight and write the Mistborn sequels in between.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:11
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Drunk Tomato posted:Your frustrations and confusion are valid, but I think you're a bit off base about the underlying reasons for his lack of LGBTQ characters. Have you listened to his Writing Excuses podcast? He has had gay and trans* people on before, and Brandon is polite and just as friendly as he would be with any guest. They talk a lot about including diversity in their writing; in fact, creating novels that appeal to large audiences is a major theme in the podcast. Incidentally, that's also why his writing is somewhat "cleaner" than certain other modern fantasy authors. I mean, it sort of sounds like a, "but I have black friends" excuse. I don't think the guy hates gay people. I think he's conflicted because he personally might be fine with people being gay, but he does explicitly defer to his church elders on the issue. A lot of what I'm drawing on are his blog posts, I haven't listened to his podcasts. I'll readily admit that I'm anti-religion, but the reason I think his religion in particular is an issue here is because the LDS church is not like a Protestant church. You can't just go to a more liberal denomination it's a top down structure that doesn't really have wiggle-room in it's doctrines. It has discrete stances on issues, and it's pretty clearly anti-gay even if it couches the language it uses. If you're a Mormon, you don't have a lot of choices in how you take that. Other religions have more denominations or branches that give you a little more range to identify with. Like if you're a Jew who thinks keeping Kosher is dumb, you can join a reform synagogue. So, if you don't think being gay is an issue, but you also thinks that the church and it's doctrines come from god, you're dealing with some cognitive dissonance. The LDS church is weird on gay rights because you can support legal unions, and the church isn't going to do anything about it, but it's a bit murkier if you disagree with doctrine on whether actually acting on your attractions is wrong. In terms of writing someone realistically, that's what writing fiction is all about. I mean, I'm pretty sure he's never been a poor woman who grew up on the streets, but he went for that and it turned out fine. At least if there was a big outcry from women on how they were being represented, I didn't see it. Damo posted:Personally I hope he never wastes his time writing a sequel to Warbreaker. The story was boring, the magic system dull and weak (except for like, a couple of people who can harness it with some serious power) and the characters uninteresting. The world itself was boring and underdeveloped and felt small as heck. It was basically the one main city and the one smaller country of "rebels" to the north, and that's it. Also, way too much "everyone is secretly those famous people from historical events long ago" poo poo going on, even compared the Elantris. Oddly enough, for someone who dislikes the book, I seemed to light Lightsong a lot more than most. He was my favorite character of the bunch. I've only read Mistborn, Stormlight, Emperor's Soul, and Steelheart (felt a bit lukewarm on that - didn't realize it was YA and it seems fine for that audience. I picked it up on Audible for a 12 hour each way road trip). I haven't been really struck by summaries of anything else. Are there other series worth reading?
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Jul 22, 2014 06:35
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Karnegal posted:Are there other series worth reading? Elantris and Warbreaker will both become series I think, but they're kinda rough.
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Jul 22, 2014 07:02
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mallamp posted:Rithmatist is good, but it's even more YA than Steelheart so that's pretty much it. Ah. I guess I'll just keep chugging through Iain M. Banks' culture series then. I haven't really read SF/Fantasy stuff in the past 6-10 years (outside of Song of Ice and Fire back in undergrad and Abercrombie on a vacation a few years ago). So I've been on a binge for the past year while I'm on leave from dissertating. I think I've hit most of the big fantasy stuff except Erikson. But this chart kind of scared me off 
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Jul 22, 2014 09:02
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Karnegal posted:I mean, it sort of sounds like a, "but I have black friends" excuse. I don't think the guy hates gay people. I think he's conflicted because he personally might be fine with people being gay, but he does explicitly defer to his church elders on the issue. A lot of what I'm drawing on are his blog posts, I haven't listened to his podcasts. He follows the Mormon church, yes, but the Mormon Church doesn't ban you for life and drat you to hell if you write gay people or swears. I don't think it really matters what his personal beliefs about homosexuality are; considering that he has written atheistic characters, he's obviously well capable of writing good characters who live lives that he disagrees with. He still needs to have a personal baseline for how different people in the real world actually are, and because of his Mormon faith he has not interacted enough with LGBTQ people. Surely his missionary work has had him meet many disenfranchised people, so writing about a poor girl isn't that much of a stretch. I would rather he take his time to understand LGBTQ people than to just insert a token, rainbow flag-waving sassy man with a lisp and tight pants.
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Jul 22, 2014 09:07
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Drunk Tomato posted:He follows the Mormon church, yes, but the Mormon Church doesn't ban you for life and drat you to hell if you write gay people or swears. I don't think it really matters what his personal beliefs about homosexuality are; considering that he has written atheistic characters, he's obviously well capable of writing good characters who live lives that he disagrees with. He still needs to have a personal baseline for how different people in the real world actually are, and because of his Mormon faith he has not interacted enough with LGBTQ people. Surely his missionary work has had him meet many disenfranchised people, so writing about a poor girl isn't that much of a stretch. I would rather he take his time to understand LGBTQ people than to just insert a token, rainbow flag-waving sassy man with a lisp and tight pants. I just don't buy that he has gay friends (according to the previous posters here) and he can be creative enough to make up all his varied worlds, but he can't write a gay character. One of the big problems with poor representation of minority view points is that those in the position of privilege get the idea that other people are strange unknowable beings. This is why people who write bad female characters (Rothfus) tend to frame women as these unknowable creatures that the protagonist must strive figured out (usually so they can have sex with them). Much like women, gay people are also just people. If you can go, "well, I've never been a woman, but I know women and I'll try to put myself in their place for this POV character I'm going to write", I don't really see a difference between that and writing a gay character. The atheism thing is interesting because fiction is a unique platform for exploring faith as you can definitively say whether there is a god or not. Like, Jasnah thinks Vorinism is wrong. But we as readers know that the heralds did exist, and they did fight the voidbringers. We also know that the almighty was real - although he was presumably a mortal who ascended due to possession of the Honor shard. The shards(/people who have merged with them) seem to act as gods in the greco-roman sense of beings in a pantheon with specific domains and immense inhuman but non-infinite power. I don't know if Adonalsium is supposed to be taken as more of an omnipotent judeo-christian god (he/she/it does seem like it's being framed as the Cosmere's original god), I think we probably don't have enough info to say there. But at any rate, Jasnah is largely wrong it seems. There are some things that the religion has got wrong, but it seems like the Stormfather confirms at the end of WOR that Honor did create the people of their world (opposed by Odium's guys in the form of the Voidbringers). And, ultimately, even if the Vorin church is wrong about callings as an important thing and what not, Honor is/was pretty much a god in the classical sense (not-omnipotent). So, the atheists are ultimately wrong. Though, I don't know that Jasnah is really an atheist so much as she's an agnostic. I think she says that Vorinism is wrong but not that there is no god, just that their understanding is wrong. In Mistborn, Sazed progresses from a collector of religion to atheism (though I would argue that he's not really an atheist. He's having a crisis of faith following a traumatic event). But, in the end of the book he ultimately gains direct knowledge of what is effectively the divine in Adonalsium. And then becomes a god himself (again, not an omnipotent one), but ultimately the book is only really resolved by deus ex machina as he uses his god powers to fix the world in ways that mortals or even moral magic is incapable of doing. Also, Mistborn ends by saying that even though all of those religions he was looking at were ultimately wrong, they were also pretty drat important since they gave him what he needed to know to save the world. I think Dockson might be written as an atheist (I can't remember, I just seem to vaguely recall something to that effect), but again, he's A.) a minor character and B.) there were gods on Scadrial. Some of the biggest questions of religions have been "why are we here?" and "who made us." We have definitive answers for that on Scadrial in that we know Ruin and Preservation created humans (they're even endowed with divine essence above other life in a very judeo-christian nod) and we know to what end. Presumably Honor and Cultivation did the same thing on Roshar, though collaboratively and not in opposition. I'm not sure if I'm missing other prominent "atheist" characters, but those seem like the big ones from the stuff I've read.
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Jul 22, 2014 10:06
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eszett engma posted:http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/01/your-questions-for-brandon-sanderson-answered I didn't read "I'm a lesbian" off of Ranette, and I'm legitimately concerned that by more obvious he means "openly hostile towards men". Drunk Tomato posted:I would bet good money that the reason that BranSan hasn't had a major LGBTQ character is because he is afraid of not writing them well and realistically. His religion plays a bit into that fear, in that he had likely very limited exposure to LGBTQ people while growing up. Thus, he does not feel comfortable writing about someone who may take great offense at his ignorance. He is a very thoughtful and kind dude, though, and I bet if you outright asked him he would say that he would love to include a major LGBTQ character some day, when he knows he can do it in a skillful way that doesn't make them a "token" character. Hell, knowing him he probably already has a trilogy with such a character in the preplanning stages. This is probably correct. Since I started following Sanderson a few years ago, he's been slowly changing his views on a lot of things. His starting point, largely, is whatever the lds church says, but that doesn't mean his end point will be. He's no Orson Scott Card, at least.
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Jul 22, 2014 10:21
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mallamp posted:Rithmatist is good, but it's even more YA than Steelheart so that's pretty much it. Rithmatist may be even more YA, but I found it to be a much better book. YMMV
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Jul 22, 2014 13:17
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Karnegal posted:Ah. I guess I'll just keep chugging through Iain M. Banks' culture series then. I haven't really read SF/Fantasy stuff in the past 6-10 years (outside of Song of Ice and Fire back in undergrad and Abercrombie on a vacation a few years ago). So I've been on a binge for the past year while I'm on leave from dissertating. I think I've hit most of the big fantasy stuff except Erikson. But this chart kind of scared me off It's really not that complicated, the I.C.E books and B&K books are tangential to the main story and largely irrelevant. You probably wont like it anyway because there are no explicitly gay main characters, there is only the occasional fan service hints of lesbian sex and one token side character is hinted as being gay with innuendo.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:03
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Xachariah posted:It's really not that complicated, the I.C.E books and B&K books are tangential to the main story and largely irrelevant. Your saying that like they're the complicated parts of that chart.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:14
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Rumda posted:Your saying that like they're the complicated parts of that chart. Ok yeah I've read the books and don't really understand the main part of that... thing. Just read them in published order, there's a made-up-fantasy-date notation before each chapter that'll let you know when the occasional thing is in the past.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:29
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Xachariah posted:It's really not that complicated, the I.C.E books and B&K books are tangential to the main story and largely irrelevant. Wait, what? IIRC Tavore is explicitly a lesbian and is never really treated as a fan service character at all, and she's a pretty major character. The way I remember it, most characters are straight, some are gay and quite a few fall somewhere in between. It's also a series where quite a few of the characters are explicitly asian, black or something else that is very not white.
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Jul 22, 2014 17:10
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NovemberMike posted:Wait, what? IIRC Tavore is explicitly a lesbian and is never really treated as a fan service character at all, and she's a pretty major character. The way I remember it, most characters are straight, some are gay and quite a few fall somewhere in between. It's also a series where quite a few of the characters are explicitly asian, black or something else that is very not white. Actually Tavore isn't explicitly a lesbian, the soldiers just do a lot of insinuating about her and her assistant having lesbian sex. Her lover turns out to be a primeval monkey sex god too. Most characters are straight, an occasional few are only innuendo-ed to be gay (Skulldeath, Tavore) by the soldiers but it's never explicit. EDIT: This is definitely the wrong thread for this so bring it up in the Malazan thread if you want to keep talking about it. Xachariah fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 17:31
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I've read the first Malazan book 4 times and I still don't understand it. I end up reading it, starting the second book, getting 1/4th through, getting frustrated because the plot is incoherent, stopping, then repeating the cycle a year or two later.
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Jul 22, 2014 18:41
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Xachariah posted:Actually Tavore isn't explicitly a lesbian, the soldiers just do a lot of insinuating about her and her assistant having lesbian sex. Her lover turns out to be a primeval monkey sex god too. Picker and Blend are pretty out and open with their lesbianity
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Jul 22, 2014 20:15
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Karnegal posted:Ah. I guess I'll just keep chugging through Iain M. Banks' culture series then. I haven't really read SF/Fantasy stuff in the past 6-10 years (outside of Song of Ice and Fire back in undergrad and Abercrombie on a vacation a few years ago). So I've been on a binge for the past year while I'm on leave from dissertating. I think I've hit most of the big fantasy stuff except Erikson. But this chart kind of scared me off That chart is why you should read it. So god drat awesome.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:37
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Benson Cunningham posted:That chart is why you should read it. So god drat awesome. Totally this. And there are plenty of gay and bi main and secondary and background characters, and the whole idea is pretty well accepted by most of the cultures it focuses on.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:42
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Karnegal posted:We have definitive answers for that on Scadrial in that we know Ruin and Preservation created humans (they're even endowed with divine essence above other life in a very judeo-christian nod) and we know to what end. Presumably Honor and Cultivation did the same thing on Roshar, though collaboratively and not in opposition. I'm not sure if I'm missing other prominent "atheist" characters, but those seem like the big ones from the stuff I've read. Humans on Scadrial were created by Ruin/Preservation but Ruin/Preservation themselves were once human. Other humans in the cosmere might be refugees from whatever event shattered Adonalsium, who were transported between worlds by the power of the shards, or they might have been created from scratch like Ruin/Preservation did. I'm not sure that humanity was necessarily created on Roshar the same way that it was created on Scadrial. Then again, for some shards it doesn't really seem like creation is really part of their sphere - Odium, Endowment, Honor etc. so maybe they aren't capable of populating and entire planet like Ruin and Preservation were. Humans on Scadrial are possibly unique in the cosmere in that they actually have part of Ruin and Preservation in them.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:26
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Karnegal posted:Presumably Honor and Cultivation did the same thing on Roshar, though collaboratively and not in opposition. It's pretty obvious humans immigrated from elsewhere.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:29
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Tunicate posted:It's pretty obvious humans immigrated from elsewhere. What am I forgetting that makes this obvious?
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Jul 23, 2014 00:20
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Grundulum posted:What am I forgetting that makes this obvious? Pretty much every origin legend in Stormlight mentions how humans came from elsewhere. Roshar-native life is blatantly different, biologically speaking.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:29
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Tunicate posted:It's pretty obvious humans immigrated from elsewhere. Well, the voice in the storm called Kaladin "child of Tanavast" who was the guy who had the Honor shard, so I sort of assumed he had something to do with people being there.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:36
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Or it may just be a reference to Kaladin's bond with an Honorspren.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:43
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Grundulum posted:What am I forgetting that makes this obvious? Maybe the sheltered pocket of earth like environment in the wind blasted crablands.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:25
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Rumda posted:Maybe the sheltered pocket of earth like environment in the wind blasted crablands. I always figured that place (shinovar?) was just anti-Australia. Everything there is nice and safe due to geographical separation.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:25
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omnibobb posted:I always figured that place (shinovar?) was just anti-Australia. Everything there is nice and safe due to geographical separation. It's not very separated, it's even the same continental mass. The thing is, animal life there is so different from what it is everywhere else that it just beggars disbelief even in fantasy worlds, especially the way Brandon tends to construct them. I mean, they have horses! And real grass!
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Jul 23, 2014 17:35
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api call girl posted:It's not very separated, it's even the same continental mass. The thing is, animal life there is so different from what it is everywhere else that it just beggars disbelief even in fantasy worlds, especially the way Brandon tends to construct them. It's geographically separated by the mountains so they never needed to evolve crab-everything. Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong or anything.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:54
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And there's also the whole Hoid conversation where says 'hey, why do you guys call these axeHOUNDs, eh?'
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Jul 23, 2014 20:14
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omnibobb posted:It's geographically separated by the mountains so they never needed to evolve crab-everything. Yeah but rosharan fauna is not just earth fauna with shells nor are shin beasts soft shelled crabs.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:26
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Rumda posted:Yeah but rosharan fauna is not just earth fauna with shells nor are shin beasts soft shelled crabs. Yeah, but that doesnt mean they definitely came from somewhere else (although it totally could)
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Jul 23, 2014 22:20
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omnibobb posted:Yeah, but that doesnt mean they definitely came from somewhere else (although it totally could) Shinova is two small to have had a separate biological history without transplantation. We're talking about Spain not Australia here and that's only order branches not entire phyla.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:31
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