Brandon Sanderson: There's always another secret project.

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readingatwork: Jan 8, 2009; Hello Fatty!; Fun Shoe

Ihmemies posted:

What happened to Sanderson? Or did something happen to me? I think Sanderson's first books were great! So was 1st stormlight archive. 2nd was ok, but this 3rd one was turned to pure garbage by the end of it.

Literally just finished Oathbringer the other day. It has flaws but I enjoyed it well enough. :shrug:

The biggest issue I noticed was that it had 2 climaxes similar to The Last Jedi. As a result it feels a bit like reading 2 books instead of of one.

Subvisual Haze posted:

Middle book syndrome is my optimistic perception. Stormlight is planned for 10 books, but it's structured as two parts of 5 books each with a gap in between. So really we're in the awkward middle of the first 5, hopefully setting plots up for satisfying payoffs later.

Reading between the lines Brandon had to shuffle a fair number of characters and plots around, and this book spent an unusually large amount of time in re edits. There's a bit of a cascade from WoR where he needed to put Jasnah on a bus for a while so Shallan could grow on her own. Shallan did grow well, but it resulted in a multi death fakeout at the end of WoR where Brandon really didn't intend one and he seemed apologetic when confronted with that frequent criticism. Now I think he's tweaked the story in response to the death fake out criticism (I imagine either the death of Elkohar or Eshonai were moved up as a result to show that not all deaths are fakeouts) and some pacing feels off as a result. Also the fact he didn't originally plan to off Jasnah is starkly apparent in Oathbringer, the other characters barely react at all to Jasnah returning from the dead beyond Shallan being angry for one chapter. Her whole family thought her dead, there needed to be more emotional fallouts and reactions to that.

Pessimistically the story is starting to suffer from character bloat and it's just going to get harder to handle over time.

There are going to be ten of these things!? :psyduck:

# ? Jan 12, 2018 19:02

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 22:28

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Subvisual Haze posted:

Middle book syndrome is my optimistic perception. Stormlight is planned for 10 books, but it's structured as two parts of 5 books each with a gap in between. So really we're in the awkward middle of the first 5, hopefully setting plots up for satisfying payoffs later.

Reading between the lines Brandon had to shuffle a fair number of characters and plots around, and this book spent an unusually large amount of time in re edits. There's a bit of a cascade from WoR where he needed to put Jasnah on a bus for a while so Shallan could grow on her own. Shallan did grow well, but it resulted in a multi death fakeout at the end of WoR where Brandon really didn't intend one and he seemed apologetic when confronted with that frequent criticism. Now I think he's tweaked the story in response to the death fake out criticism (I imagine either the death of Elkohar or Eshonai were moved up as a result to show that not all deaths are fakeouts) and some pacing feels off as a result. Also the fact he didn't originally plan to off Jasnah is starkly apparent in Oathbringer, the other characters barely react at all to Jasnah returning from the dead beyond Shallan being angry for one chapter. Her whole family thought her dead, there needed to be more emotional fallouts and reactions to that.

Likewise, When Kaladin, Shallan, and co. got caught up in the Kholinar revolution, disappeared, and were presumed dead, nobody batted an eye at them reappearing. Nobody was devastated that Elhokar died. Sure, they reappeared during a battle and didn't have time for tearful reunions, but they were gone for a long time, you'd think characters would have found the time to be as relieved as the reader when everybody was reunited.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 19:51

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Infinite Karma posted:

Likewise, When Kaladin, Shallan, and co. got caught up in the Kholinar revolution, disappeared, and were presumed dead, nobody batted an eye at them reappearing. Nobody was devastated that Elhokar died. Sure, they reappeared during a battle and didn't have time for tearful reunions, but they were gone for a long time, you'd think characters would have found the time to be as relieved as the reader when everybody was reunited.

After Jasnah everyone just kind of assumes no corpse=no problem

# ? Jan 12, 2018 23:48

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Tunicate posted:

After Jasnah everyone just kind of assumes no corpse=no problem

Well, more like after Kaladin and Shallan go over the chasm edge in a highstorm

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:10

Khizan: Jul 30, 2013

Infinite Karma posted:

Likewise, Nobody was devastated that Elhokar died.

Aside from Navani and Dalinar, nobody liked him.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:15

mewse: May 2, 2006

Dalinar: lead by example
Elkohar: lead by divine privilege

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:30

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

mewse posted:

Dalinar: lead by example
Elkohar: lead by divine privilege

Eh they both led by divine privilege, it's just Dalinar could actually do stuff with it.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 10:40

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

mewse posted:

Dalinar: lead by example
Elkohar: lead by divine privilege

Dalinar is becoming God.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 13:43

mewse: May 2, 2006

Potato Salad posted:

Dalinar is becoming God.

Let's all become God, together

# ? Jan 13, 2018 17:45

Decius: Oct 14, 2005; Ramrod XTreme

Potato Salad posted:

Dalinar is becoming God.

Without a splitter? Wouldn't he be more on a level with the Stormfather? Somewhat like a demi-god?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 20:41

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Decius posted:

Without a splitter? Wouldn't he be more on a level with the Stormfather? Somewhat like a demi-god?

he just has to do some killing before he starts picking up actual Shards

# ? Jan 13, 2018 21:11

TOOT BOOT: May 25, 2010

Oddly enough one of my main problems with Oathbringer is that it feels like it revealed too much about the central mysteries of the series too early. I feel like my top 5 unanswered questions are answered now and we're only on book 3.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 05:28

Subvisual Haze: Nov 22, 2003; The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

TOOT BOOT posted:

Oddly enough one of my main problems with Oathbringer is that it feels like it revealed too much about the central mysteries of the series too early. I feel like my top 5 unanswered questions are answered now and we're only on book 3.

There's gotta be more to the Recreance than what we've been told Oh, our ancestors from millenia back weren't the original inhabitants of this chunk of rock? And our magic powers might accidentally blow up the planet? We Knight Radiant are now in 100% agreement that we should break our oaths and murder the kind sentient spirits that have been our constant friends and companions.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 05:50

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Subvisual Haze posted:

There's gotta be more to the Recreance than what we've been told Oh, our ancestors from millenia back weren't the original inhabitants of this chunk of rock? And our magic powers might accidentally blow up the planet? We Knight Radiant are now in 100% agreement that we should break our oaths and murder the kind sentient spirits that have been our constant friends and companions.

well there's also
well gently caress we accidentally lobotomized millions of people, I mean they were the enemy sure but what happens if its our guys next time, and Honor seems to be going pretty loving nuts too, so since all the desolations are over let's quit before we lobotomize all the humans too, or screw with the weather and turn babies into gold

And the skybreakers just said 'gently caress that' to the recreance

# ? Jan 15, 2018 07:57

scary ghost dog: Aug 5, 2007

the characters will probably do some worldhopping by the midpoint, or shortly after, if this is truly some kind of opus

# ? Jan 15, 2018 16:10

Luminaflare: Sep 23, 2010; No one man
should have all that
POWER BEYOND MEASURE

Did anyone else notice in chapter 77 the sentient cremling thing spying on Kaladin et al while they were in the storm shelter?

edit: I think it's one of the Aimia Dysian, those immortal dudes made of Cremlings.

Luminaflare fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jan 15, 2018

# ? Jan 15, 2018 16:30

scary ghost dog: Aug 5, 2007

crem and cremlings are weird as hell.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 16:40

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Tunicate posted:

well there's also
well gently caress we accidentally lobotomized millions of people, I mean they were the enemy sure but what happens if its our guys next time, and Honor seems to be going pretty loving nuts too, so since all the desolations are over let's quit before we lobotomize all the humans too, or screw with the weather and turn babies into gold

And the skybreakers just said 'gently caress that' to the recreance

i'm with you here, i think the "idea" Melishi has combined with the strike on Bo-ado-mishram accidentally lobotomizing an entire race is the big thing we can piece together that the characters really don't understand yet, hence their kind of unconcerned reaction to the news.

I wonder to what extent just finding out the ramifications of that action just directly broke their vows in itself? Like if you assume Windrunners are like generally similar to Kaladin, finding out they were responsible alone might be enough to sever their powers.

And yeah lol the Skybreakers are just like "Well, this action was lawful and necessary, we don't see any problem here."

# ? Jan 15, 2018 20:07

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

ekeog posted:

i'm with you here, i think the "idea" Melishi has combined with the strike on Bo-ado-mishram accidentally lobotomizing an entire race is the big thing we can piece together that the characters really don't understand yet, hence their kind of unconcerned reaction to the news.

I wonder to what extent just finding out the ramifications of that action just directly broke their vows in itself? Like if you assume Windrunners are like generally similar to Kaladin, finding out they were responsible alone might be enough to sever their powers.

And yeah lol the Skybreakers are just like "Well, this action was lawful and necessary, we don't see any problem here."

If we're theorizing the real reasons for the recreance, the Unmade were probably pivotal. Maybe they were "Godspren" like the Stormfather, and they were convinced to betray their own natures, and were corrupted by it. Spren repeatedly tell humans that they don't have free will the same way that humans do - going against their natures is quote unquote impossible. It would be an easier pill to swallow to guess that the Knights Radiant or the Heralds were responsible for creating the Unmade, and that act killed the lesser bonded spren related to them. In that case, the Stormfather could also be one of the Unmade, or the only one who didn't get corrupted. It'd be an interesting twist if the Highstorms are a product of the Stormfather's corruption.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 20:29

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

Luminaflare posted:

Did anyone else notice in chapter 77 the sentient cremling thing spying on Kaladin et al while they were in the storm shelter?

edit: I think it's one of the Aimia Dysian, those immortal dudes made of Cremlings.

I'm wondering if They are the "Agents" of cultivation, similar to the Kandra.

But yes. :haw:

# ? Jan 15, 2018 20:31

OAquinas: Jan 27, 2008; Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

The latter part we know isn't true--the highstorms predate adonalsium shattering. Which tracks with all the native Rosharian lifeforms being heavily adapted to surviving insane weather.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 20:34

Luminaflare: Sep 23, 2010; No one man
should have all that
POWER BEYOND MEASURE

Also in regards to the Unmade, there's WoB stating that they're splinters of Odium.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 22:10

scary ghost dog: Aug 5, 2007

the cool things i like about stormlight chronicles are that its typical shounen superpower stuff written by a mormon fantasy author and set on a hosed up alien planet constantly circled by a giant storm that rains wet cement and all the native life is bugs

# ? Jan 15, 2018 22:58

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Luminaflare posted:

Also in regards to the Unmade, there's WoB stating that they're splinters of Odium.

WoB is a nice behind the scenes, but I imagine that he'd be willing to mislead with them. If spren predate Honor's/Cultivation's/humanity's arrival on Roshar, or the Unmade are a combination effort from multiple Shards, it would still make his WoB true.

Also regarding crem, I imagine it's basically silt, maybe limestone silt. Very fine dirt that builds up over time isn't fantastical magic, it's pretty mundane.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 23:03

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

scary ghost dog posted:

the cool things i like about stormlight chronicles are that its typical shounen superpower stuff written by a mormon fantasy author and set on a hosed up alien planet constantly circled by a giant storm that rains wet cement and all the native life is bugs

A hosed-up, low-gravity alien planet.

Apparently Roshar is about 0.7x standard gravity, according to the preface in Arcanum Unbounded. That's why everyone's always able to leap several feet into the air even without magic power armor.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 23:08

rafikki: Mar 8, 2008; I see what you did there. (It's pretty easy, since ducks have a field of vision spanning 340 degrees.)

~SMcD

ConfusedUs posted:

A hosed-up, low-gravity alien planet.

Apparently Roshar is about 0.7x standard gravity, according to the preface in Arcanum Unbounded. That's why everyone's always able to leap several feet into the air even without magic power armor.

And high oxygen, which is why there's a lot of stormlight used instead of fire for illumination.

# ? Jan 15, 2018 23:35

rafikki: Mar 8, 2008; I see what you did there. (It's pretty easy, since ducks have a field of vision spanning 340 degrees.)

~SMcD

Come to think of it, that probably has something to do with the "airsick lowlander" comments as well.

# ? Jan 16, 2018 00:26

OneTwentySix: Nov 5, 2007; fun
FUN
FUN

I just realized that Hoid commenting to Shallan in WoR about axehounds (what is a hound?) was really funas a hint in hindsight, now that we know how humans got to Roshar. Kind of odd that they wouldn't bring dogs with them, though.

# ? Jan 16, 2018 19:44

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

I'm trying to read Warbreaker since it comes up so much in Stormlight now but woof is it tough to read. The Shallan humor is turned up to 11 and unbearable. So I tried to just look at the Wiki Sanderson fans have instead and all the articles read like a middle school book report.

# ? Jan 19, 2018 15:12

Habibi: Dec 8, 2004; We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

Isn't that basically what those Wiki entries are?

# ? Jan 19, 2018 15:24

MartingaleJack: Aug 26, 2004; I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.

Thoguh posted:

I'm trying to read Warbreaker since it comes up so much in Stormlight now but woof is it tough to read. The Shallan humor is turned up to 11 and unbearable. So I tried to just look at the Wiki Sanderson fans have instead and all the articles read like a middle school book report.

If you want to read something with amazing prose and fantastic ideas, read Ian M. Banks. If you want to read pulp that requires no effort, read Sanderson. There's a place for both.

# ? Jan 19, 2018 18:21

Subvisual Haze: Nov 22, 2003; The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

Thoguh posted:

I'm trying to read Warbreaker since it comes up so much in Stormlight now but woof is it tough to read. The Shallan humor is turned up to 11 and unbearable. So I tried to just look at the Wiki Sanderson fans have instead and all the articles read like a middle school book report.

Unlike Shallan where it's not always clear in specific scenes whether Sanderson intended her to be funny or groan worthy, Lifesong is 100% pure dad "humor". You're supposed to audibly groan at him, but whether you enjoy that sort of thing is naturally going to be very subjective.

# ? Jan 19, 2018 21:35

MartingaleJack: Aug 26, 2004; I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.

I thought Lifesong was great, but I am also a dad.

# ? Jan 20, 2018 07:48

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

My thought on Lifesong is that he's losing his ability to deflect. Far easier explaination is that he's written poorly.

# ? Jan 20, 2018 14:36

smertrioslol: Apr 4, 2010

Isn't it lightsong? Did I read that entire book and remember his name wrong the whole time? :ohdear:

# ? Jan 20, 2018 16:44

Torrannor: Apr 27, 2013; ---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

smertrioslol posted:

Isn't it lightsong? Did I read that entire book and remember his name wrong the whole time?

Nope, you are correct. It's indeed Lightsong.

# ? Jan 20, 2018 20:59

insider: Feb 22, 2007; A secret room... always my favourite room in a house.

Thoguh posted:

I'm trying to read Warbreaker since it comes up so much in Stormlight now but woof is it tough to read. The Shallan humor is turned up to 11 and unbearable. So I tried to just look at the Wiki Sanderson fans have instead and all the articles read like a middle school book report.

I thought the humor was intentionally bad. That is Lightsong's way of dealing with the fact he is returned from the dead and everyone treats him as a god.

I absolutely loved Warbreaker. I think it is by far the coolest magic system Sanderson has done. The investiture in that world is also really unique in that everyone is invested a little bit and basically a huge amount of people have to give up their investiture to one person. The reveal at the end is therefore very satisfying IMO.

I can't wait till he goes back and writes more Warbreaker stuff.

# ? Jan 20, 2018 21:43

Khizan: Jul 30, 2013

insider posted:

I thought the humor was intentionally bad.

I would believe that if Sanderson had ever successfully written a funny character.

# ? Jan 20, 2018 23:19

OneTwentySix: Nov 5, 2007; fun
FUN
FUN

Wayne is pretty funny.

# ? Jan 21, 2018 01:16

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 22:28

Subvisual Haze: Nov 22, 2003; The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

Pretty much the whole cast of the Alloy of Law series is funny. Except poor Marasi who is stuck playing straight(wo)man for 4 other characters.

The way the Returned act in Warbreaker is actually pretty clever. Lightsong was a boring middle aged bachelor accountant who was brought back from the dead with the same personality, but without past memories and stuck in the body of a supermodel with a city worshipping him and telling him that he is a God. Their system of government is a body-swap reality TV show.

# ? Jan 21, 2018 01:52

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