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Hieronymous Alloy posted:you already know the answer: Egwene, Moiraine, Siuan Not Elayne, Aviendha, Min?
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Aug 21, 2019 17:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:you already know the answer: Egwene, Moiraine, Siuan every reference to a "pillow friend" is now a cut to a softcore lesbian scene
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Aug 21, 2019 17:08
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wizzardstaff posted:Aviendha By the way, someone please confirm for me that this name is pronounced with an "Ah" as the first syllable and not an "Ay" (Friend of mine who is way too into WoT insists that it's the latter, and HE TOTALLY WENT TO ROBERT JORDAN'S HOUSE AND SPENT DAYS TALKING WITH HIM AND HEARING HIS STORIES AND THIS IS HIS VISION) If this series is in fact going to get made, this will become an issue I will personally have to deal with
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Aug 21, 2019 17:25
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Data Graham posted:By the way, someone please confirm for me that this name is pronounced with an "Ah" as the first syllable and not an "Ay" Did he really? Annoy him by insisting on pronouncing all the names with a Seanchan accent (ie an exaggerated southern drawl)
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Aug 21, 2019 17:27
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Your friend is weird because there's a pronunciation guide in all of the books and Aviendha is broken down as ah-vee-EHN-dah.
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Aug 21, 2019 17:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Did he really? I highly doubt it, but while he is a master of the grandiose and unverifiable claim, he is also capable of amazing accomplishments, so I never can loving tell ^^ I thought there was, but I'm equally sure at this point that I'm going crazy. Perhaps too much saidin
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Aug 21, 2019 18:56
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I'm looking forward to every reference to the Taint being met with a raised eyebrow and a smirk. "Yeah, Rand touched the Taint. Heh." Also, Mat is going to cuddle the brains out of a bunch of barmaids and stablehands.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:10
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wizzardstaff posted:Not Elayne, Aviendha, Min? They’d have to be bi because of Rand being in the equation. Afaik all the “main cast” guys end up paired up so the only gay guy options would be some of the damned maybe. Or the fake dragon dude, dunno how he ends up in the book. Avalerion fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 08:40
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Avalerion posted:They’d have to be bi because of Rand being in the equation. Logain has a mini harem on his own. Or at least, he bonded two Aes Sedai, and sleeps with at least one of them. Though the Red Ajah sister is scandalized by this, so maybe he has sex with just one of them. Mat ends up in a straight relationship from book 9 forward, with a stint of boning an Aiel woman in book 5. Plenty of space for him to get some gay action in between.
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Aug 22, 2019 10:01
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Make all the evil people gay, that’s the ticket
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Aug 22, 2019 12:01
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What's the Ashaman who pretends to be his brother? He's gay and is pretty cool iirc. Also imo get rid of Faile and have Perrin and Aram be a couple imo
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Aug 22, 2019 12:28
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So, WoT14 question: Did I space out while listening to the audio book, or did Siuan not do a fuckin thing this entire series? Some number of pages ago I mentioned how her hook with Logain was one of the plot points that had me really interested in like Book 3 or something. Someone replied "Just you wait" and I felt like that was suggesting she was going to do something awesome, so if she did I 100% missed it
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Aug 22, 2019 12:30
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Sab669 posted:So, WoT14 question: Did I space out while listening to the audio book, or did Siuan not do a fuckin thing this entire series? Some number of pages ago I mentioned how her hook with Logain was one of the plot points that had me really interested in like Book 3 or something. Someone replied "Just you wait" and I felt like that was suggesting she was going to do something awesome, so if she did I 100% missed it You didn't miss much. She helped get Egwene elected as Amrylin, she kept the rebels from rejoining the white tower, and she kept the rebels from manipulating Egwene too much. Tbqh her role is to pass on her 20 years of knowledge to Egwene in 3 months.
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Aug 22, 2019 12:42
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OK, yea, I was aware of all of that. I was just expecting, y'know, something cool based on that one dude's response when I mentioned it after finishing like Book 11 or 12.
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Aug 22, 2019 13:09
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I think I remember something about her getting killed anticlimactically in the crossfire trying to save the dashing general guy outside a tent?
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Aug 22, 2019 13:13
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Yea that happens in 14.
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Aug 22, 2019 13:21
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Sab669 posted:OK, yea, I was aware of all of that. I was just expecting, y'know, something cool based on that one dude's response when I mentioned it after finishing like Book 11 or 12. Oh. Yeah. I guess not everyone can be book 14 Mat/Perrin/Rand/Egwene
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Aug 22, 2019 13:25
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We've seen Sister-Wives but what of the Brother-Husbands?
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Aug 22, 2019 13:34
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Sab669 posted:OK, yea, I was aware of all of that. I was just expecting, y'know, something cool based on that one dude's response when I mentioned it after finishing like Book 11 or 12. I dunno, the idea that what she gets done isn't cool is ... not cool.
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Aug 22, 2019 17:01
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Vague political shenanigans are not 1/100th as cool as channeling the Flame of Tar Valon and that's a hill I'll gladly die on lol
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Aug 22, 2019 18:42
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Sab669 posted:Vague political shenanigans are not 1/100th as cool as channeling the Flame of Tar Valon and that's a hill I'll gladly die on lol That's very cool indeed, too bad that the character managing this feat is otherwise absolute trash.
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Aug 22, 2019 18:55
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Pretty much all of the Two Rivers characters went from, "I dislike all of them" to "Well I don't actively dislike them" for me, so  (Actually I liked Egwene out of the gate because she was the only who was enthusiastic about her future). Thom, Loial, and Talamanes are the true heroes.Why do people seem to hate her so much? The only complaint I recall reading was that she "doesn't deserve any of the good stuff" or that she's "too mature for her age" (with how she outmaneuvers all the other Aes Sedai) because aren't they all like, what, late teen's early 20's? If so, I can see the complaint but to say she's "trash" or all the other hatred she get seems... excessive. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 19:11
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Sab669 posted:Pretty much all of the Two Rivers characters went from, "I dislike all of them" to "Well I don't actively dislike them" for me, so Everything is handed to her constantly, she looks down on everyone else, she is entitled, she is a hypocrite. That one time she she made dream men almost rape Nynaeve and then laughed at the trauma she caused her "friend" Here is a good Reddit post of that last bit from book 5 Anyway, here’s the Cliff Notes version: Egwene is banned from Tel by the Wise Ones. Egwene meets with Nyneave without permission. Egwene freaks out about the idea of Nyneave ratting her out to the Wise Ones. Nyneave would never rat her out. Egwene threatens Nyneave with monster rape. Nyneave is hurt mentally and physically from the event. Egwene has the time of her life; she laughs the night away. Just Google "why do people hate Egwene" there are good comprehensive answers. Each reread I dislike her more and enjoy Nynaeve more. Best characters imo are 1. Mat 2. Hopper 3. Nynaeve 4. Thom 5. Birgitte 6. Aviendha ... Bottom of list. Egwene.
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Aug 22, 2019 19:35
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She also has a habit of joining a group, immediately gets on board as this new group being the best thing ever and taking all their lessons super seriously. Then the second she leaves the group everything she learned gets ditched and she disdains them from that point on.
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Aug 22, 2019 19:45
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Note that she still behaves way better than Rand, since he is a complete lunatic.
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Aug 22, 2019 19:51
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Egwene travels and studies and learns to be a better channeler and leader throughout the series. People either ignore or forget that she was Nyaneve's apprentice, she would have ended up as a Wisdom somewhere in the Two Rivers if she never left and she would have bossed people around and been the de-factor leader of that village. It's funny to claim that she's handed everything when you have a character like Mat in the books.
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Aug 22, 2019 19:54
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Egwene starts out pretty good. Seeing her outsmart the Aes Sedai around her was really cool. I genuinely enjoy the Salidar politics part where Egwene cements her rule as Amyrlin. But she's massively helped in that regard by how unlikable the vast majority of the Aes Sedai are. But the fact remains that she's a massive hypocrite. Seaine and co. forced sisters to swear oaths of obedience on the Oath Rod? Wow, that's surely reason for Egwene to express righteous outrage, because she would never force somebody who can't lie to swear fealty to her! Never! She fears Rand has used compulsion on sisters sent to attack/capture him? She's extra outraged, because: 1. She has never used instruments of compulsion (like an A'dam) on somebody clearly an enemy (like Moghedien) 2. Compulsion being used on Aes Sedai is extra bad. Her exact thoughts! 3. Punishing Aes Sedai is for the Amyrlin and the Hall alone, nobody else has authority over them. On the topic of bonding Aes Sedai, and bonding Asha'man, her double standard is again very obvious. She accepts no responsibility of the Amyrlin Seat, or the Aes Sedai in general, for sending sisters to attack the Black Tower. That the Asha'man bonded Aes Sedai basically in self-defense, following orders by Rand himself not to harm Aes Sedai, that's all immaterial. Bonding sisters is unacceptable. She speaks of the "crime" of bonding sisters against their will, but the Aes Sedai carried out an unprovoked attack on the Black Tower, with orders to kill every male channeller they could get their hands on. And she lays the blame squarely at Rand's feet, with a noncommittal "maybe" at the rejoinder that she inherited the blame for Elaida's attack orders. She never accepts the men as equals, and is clear in her intention to bring them under control as soon as possible. The same with the other female channeller organizations. She makes definite plans to bind and ultimately control the Aiel Wise Ones and Sea Folk Wind Finders, as evidenced by their meeting with them in Towers of Midnight. Aes Sedai over all, Aes Sedai being the ultimate authority over all channellers (and non-channellers) is something she finds natural and desirable. She never shakes the attitude of "women know better" that Elayne and even Nynaeve are able to overcome. She never respects men, ever, apart from Gareth Bryne. See how she conspired to "get rid" of Mat when she sent him with Elayne and Nynaeve to get him somewhere where he can't make trouble. Her admonishing the sisters for trying to capture Rand, instead of getting close to him and leading him through subtle manipulation. That's in book 12! No thoughts of simply supporting the Dragon Reborn in his fight against the Dark One, he must of course be led, lest he makes his own decision. The horror! Egwene would have been a horrible Amyrlin for the world after the Last Battle. Cadsuane is better, as difficult as this may be to believe, because she's not hell bent on the Aes Sedai dominating the world. Also, she hooks up with maybe the worst unambiguous light-side character in the series. Both deserve their end-
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Aug 22, 2019 20:00
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I forgot about the oaths of fealty. Again, threatening Nynaeve with rape and giggling about it the next page was the thing that pushed her over the edge into unlike able. Stolen from reddit Man, I could rant all day. Egwene is the absolute worst. Too bad I'm on tablet so this will have to be abridged. 1) In your list of good things about egwene, you're focusing on her accomplishments, not her personality. I don't hate her because of her resume. I hate her because she's a jealous, arrogant bitch. She is constantly jealous of rand and his accomplishments. She develops a swollen head because she spends too much time around inferiors. She thinks she's strong in the power because she's around aes Sedai, forgetting that nynaeve would take her to school and rand would barely notice her attack. She thinks she's hot poo poo at the world of dreams, until Perrin shows up and does things she thinks are impossible. But that's not even the most unforgivable thing. Most of the two rivers folk are fiercely protective of their own. Nynaeve will defend the character of any of the boys. Egwene starts talking poo poo about them as soon as they're out of earshot. 2) Egwene didn't work very hard for her accomplishments. Her resume prior to becoming amyrlin was what? Two months in the Tower then a bit of time doing chores for the aiel? Then, most of her victories come because aes Sedai are the biggest collection of morons ever assembled. None of her political rivals are remotely competent. When she finally goes up against rand politically, she gets played like a fiddle, and the only thing that prevents her fuckups from destroying the world is Moiraine. It's very telling that Moiraine, who was with rand for a total of like 6 months, knows exactly what to say to him, but egwene, who has known him for 18 years, is clueless. 3) Yes, other characters start off as annoying brats. But all the other ones experience failure, growth, and humility. Egwene's personality is still the same at the end. 4) She's a complete hypocrite. Her major victory against elaida came from her accusation that Elaida was going to start enforcing oaths of fealty. Which is exactly what egwene had done earlier. 5) People think she has the respect of the Aiel. Part of this is a disconnect between Jordan and sanderson. She doesn't have the respect of the wise ones. Evidence: from the moment she sets off for Salidar, they don't tell her poo poo about rand, even though she's desperate for information. 6) One of the biggest character flaws people in rand land have is blinders. People are unwilling to see the truth in front of their faces. Like the truth that the black Ajah exists, and is strong, or the truth that the dragon has been reborn, or the truth that the black tower is rising. Essence has this flaw in spades. Especially in ToM. Like when the people she trusts most in the world, the dreamwalkers, Elaine, and nynaeve, all tell her that something good has happened to rand, that he's found himself as a person, and maybe she should listen to him. She ignores all of them. Or when gawyn tells her that the assassins might not be mesaana, but she ignores him, because she's already decided. Or when nynaeve takes her test for the shawl, and lectures her about the dangers of the whole "separate flesh" thing they have going on. Effete never once considers that the lecture might apply to her, and never dwells on that conversation again. I could go on, but I'll stop now. RC Cola fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 20:06
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Sab669 posted:Pretty much all of the Two Rivers characters went from, "I dislike all of them" to "Well I don't actively dislike them" for me, so I think Egwene is cool, and super look forward to her (book 12) throwing loving fireballs and loving up the Seanchan To'raken. in the TV show. That scene is going to be rad as hell. Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 20:09
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The world of WoT has had male channelers go insane and break the world. The Tower is the only institution that has maintained existence in those 3,000 years, women are the only ones who can safely use this power, so no poo poo that women who want to be in Aes Sedai might come from the perspective that they know best and that men, especially a group of channeling men who have been instructed to learn how to become weapons while using a tainted source of power, are not to be trusted.
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Aug 22, 2019 20:09
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RC Cola posted:
Wow, I don't remember this at ALL. quote:Best characters imo are Hopper should have eaten Perrin in like book 3. He's such a bitch. Look I got these rad-rear end wolf powers. I'm going to tell them to go away and leave me alone. I'm a man, not a wolf!
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Aug 22, 2019 20:11
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:The world of WoT has had male channelers go insane and break the world. The Tower is the only institution that has maintained existence in those 3,000 years, women are the only ones who can safely use this power, so no poo poo that women who want to be in Aes Sedai might come from the perspective that they know best and that men, especially a group of channeling men who have been instructed to learn how to become weapons while using a tainted source of power, are not to be trusted. That's fine as a general attitude emerging in this situation. But the theme of WoT is about generally overcoming your prejudices, and the inverted female dominated power structure was clearly designed to shine a light on how the real world patriarchy is dumb. Egwene is the equivalent of a man who insists women should stay at home and raise the kids. It's very disappointing, coming from one of our Two Rivers protagonists, when the superboys, Nynaeve, Elayne and Aviendha manage to overcome such bullshit.
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Aug 22, 2019 20:31
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Wow, I don't remember this at ALL. Same!
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Aug 22, 2019 20:41
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Egwene definitely has a lot of both high and and low points, especially in the later books, but also I think a lot of the hostility comes from her being a career woman who chases her goals without compromise and who isn't all that concerned about catching a man. The one who really irritates me is Elayne. Just all privilege all the time, constantly fails upward, never really catches a clue.
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Aug 22, 2019 21:00
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I've never read very far into this, but this person HATES Egwene. http://www.readandfindout.com/wheeloftime/messageboard/285742/
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Aug 22, 2019 23:35
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This is the Egwene Nynaeve scene in Fires of Heaven. WARNING, ATTEMPTED RAPE SCENE “Do you realize you could dream yourself into something you could not get out of? Dreams are real here. If you let yourself drift into a fond dream, it could trap you. You’d trap yourself. Until you died.” “Will you—?” “There are nightmares walking Tel’aran’rhiod, Nynaeve.” “Will you let me speak?” Nynaeve barked. Or rather, she tried to bark it; there was rather too much frustrated pleading in there to suit her. Any at all would have been too much. “No, I will not,” Egwene said firmly. “Not until you want to say something worth listening to. I said nightmares, and I meant nightmares, Nynaeve. When someone has a nightmare while in Tel’aran’rhiod, it is real too. And sometimes it survives after the dreamer has gone. You just don’t realize, do you?” Suddenly rough hands enveloped Nynaeve’s arms. Her head whipped from side to side, eyes bulging. Two huge, ragged men lifted her into the air, faces half-melted ruins of coarse flesh, drooling mouths full of sharp, yellowed teeth. She tried to make them vanish—if a Wise One dreamwalker could, so could she—and one of them ripped her dress open down the front like parchment. The other seized her chin in a horny, callused hand and twisted her face toward him; his head bent toward her, mouth opening. Whether to kiss or bite, she did not know, but she would rather die than allow either. She flailed for saidar and found nothing; it was horror filling her, not anger. Thick fingernails dug into her cheeks, holding her head steady. Egwene had done this, somehow. Egwene. “Please, Egwene!” It was a squeal, and she was too terrified to care. “Please!” The men—creatures—vanished, and her feet thudded to the floor. For a moment all she could do was shudder and weep. Hastily she repaired the damage to her dress, but the scratches from long fingernails remained on her neck and chest. Clothing could be mended easily in Tel’aran’rhiod, but whatever happened to a human . . . Her knees shook so badly that it was all she could do to stay upright. She half-expected Egwene to comfort her, and for once she would have accepted it gladly. But the other woman only said, “There are worse things here, but nightmares are bad enough. I made these, and unmade them, but even I have trouble with those I just find. And I did not try to hold them, Nynaeve. If you knew how to unmake them, you could have.” Egwene created those monsters and the next scene is Egwene's PoV. She giggles to herself about how she owned Nynaeve.
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Aug 22, 2019 23:37
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WoT thread when
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Aug 23, 2019 02:34
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mewse posted:WoT thread when 
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Aug 23, 2019 02:59
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RC Cola posted:Bottom of list. Mat. Here's my list. The rest doesn't matter, except for that Mat is the worst, forever.
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Aug 24, 2019 00:37
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Kchama posted:Here's my list. The rest doesn't matter, except for that Mat is the worst, forever. Did you ever pick the series back up and finish it?
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Aug 24, 2019 00:49
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