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Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


anachrodragon posted:

I just started reading the first Mistborn book. This is the first Sanderson book that I've read, and I figured I should give it a shot because I appreciate his podcast. I'm maybe a quarter of the way in, and so far it's engaging and fun, but feels very much like a YA novel. I think the magic system has more depth than the characters or much of the interaction, but I'm actually ok with that for now. The magic system is interesting.

I haven't read any fantasy in a few years, but if this continues to be engaging I'll probably finish the series. It's by no means what I'd consider the best of the genre, but on the other hand it's much better than the worst of the genre. Seems like it might be solid entertainment.

Part of Sanderson's shtick, especially with some of his earlier novels, is extremely detailed worlds and magic, but relatively shallow characters - the characters improve somewhat over time, but the plot is really what drives his books. And trust me, the world and characters of mistborn is a LOT more complex and less black and white than it appears at first glance.. :) Sanderson has excellent plot twists.

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Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Agggh, I read too quickly - I've just finished it. Curse you, Brandon Sanderson, for ending it in such a way that (deliberately vague minor ending spoilers) leaves it on a note revealing that you only just scratched the surface of what was REALLY happening, and all-but-guarantees another big epic trilogy in this world

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Kreeblah posted:

Well, he intended for the second trilogy to be a modern-day thing, but I guess we're getting extra books on the way.

Anyway, I just finished and having read the bit at the end, I'm intrigued by the Feruchemists' nicrosil power. It seems that Investiture relates to the various Adonalsium shard powers, so being able to store that in a metalmind could make for some interesting results. Maybe somebody from Scadriel who jumped to Sel could store Aon-writing and then use it elsewhere?

How would that really work, though - metalminds store something already inside you, leaving you without it, and then allows you to draw upon an excess of it later - To become one of those people that can use the Aon Dor (I forget the name of that transformation, haven't read Elantris in ages) you need to be born somewhere nearby - it's genetic, like Allomancy.

Or, actually, in light of a couple tidbits he's revealed in interviews and sneaked into books, it's actually in their 'spirit web' essentially a combination of 'spiritual dna' and your actual soul - a hemalurgist tears off the piece that governs whatever power or attribute is desired from whoever you stab and staples it onto whoever receives the spike.

Which does bring an idea to mind - what if a nicrosil feruchemist could use Hemalurgy? Then he might be able to gain or use powers he shouldn't from other worlds. The little codex at the end DOES have the mysterious writer considering the possible potential uses of Hemalurgy in other worlds.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


treeboy posted:

my guess is that it has something to do with storing 'magical energy' not unlike the well of ascension did. a Nicrosil ferring could store native cosmic energy and unleash it at a later time. the question is whether that would be 'well of ascension' power on Scadriel and Stormlight on Roshar, or abilities being used on/around the nicrosil user

of course my theory would be Aon Dor and Stormlight and Allomancy are all the same 'magic' just different expressions of it


They are, kinda - there's a huge cosmology going on that all the books give hints on and Brandon Sanderson has given tons of info on in interviews, etc - essentially there was one, big overgod at some point, Adonalsium (you can see it mentioned in a few books), and for an unknown reason, he died and shattered into 16 'shards'/personalities that personify different aspects of his personality and power.

The ones we know of are Ruin and Preservation from Mistborn, Endowment in Warbreaker, Devotion or something of that nature (we don't know the exact name) in Elantris for the Aon Dor, along with another one in the Elantris world that we know only the tiniest details of, then Honor, Cultivation, and Odium in The Way of Kings, and all the rest we don't know the details of beyond a few names from before they became gods.

All of the shards at some point had a person take them up like Sazed did (including Ruin and Preservation, formerly named Ati and Leras), and all of them slowly turn into a personification of whatever aspect of the Overgod they took - Ruin was a nice guy, for example, before taking up Ruin.

They all, merely by interacting with a world, and creating life on those worlds (They've all created human life on their respective worlds - no idea where the 'original' humans they all copy came from), inherently and possibly without even really intending to, imbue that world with some magic that reflects their nature - but the magic still draws upon the same divine font of magic that used to be the Overgod - it's just biased and shaped by the aspect that it draws from.

He's even implied that at some point there's going to be the mother-of-all series that links all the universes together for a big finale and showdown involving all the planar-hopping characters that are hinted at in each book (Hoid being the most obvious, being a secondary character in every single book so far), and all these 'shards' of God. It's also been confirmed that it's possible to make every single magic in all the series work on other worlds, if you're someone who really understands how they all work, because they are all really related at heart

It's interesting that he's put so much thought into the metaphysics of the world, and the fact that he has makes me really really interested in what the big finale could be like.

There's a forum here that seems to be entirely dedicated to debating about all the hidden little things in Brandon's stuff which adds up to this bigger picture, which is the only reason I would have known this - most of this stuff was pieced together over years and through lots of reading between the lines in the books, and Brandon's confirmed a lot of it.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Kreeblah posted:

Well, maybe we'll see Marsh with 256 spikes or whatever at some point. I have to think that if Hemalurgy becomes a thing later on (which the bit at the end did seem to imply), he'd probably be the best position to make use of it. Other than him, there may not actually be anybody left on Scadriel that knows Hemalurgy exists, let alone anything more, given how secretive the Steel Inquisitors were about it.

I think it mentioned somewhere in the glossary that it's pretty much nobody but Harmony, Marsh, and the Kandra serving Harmony.. though it wasn't firm enough to completely leave out the option that a bad guy might know about it.. which is a possibile potential use for the kidnapped allomancers, I suppose!

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


veekie posted:

That is a lot of spikes and places to put them.

Spikes CAN be pretty small - remember the earring?

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


arioch posted:

I haven't read the books in question, but are flaws really flaws if they never come into play? It's like Karen Traviss telling us the Null Arc clone commandos are tremendously damaged beings but in practice they're perfect soldiers, perfect sons, and perfect husbands.

Well, presumably whatever the flaw is leads to him failing miserably and falling into a depressive funk and giving up, and possibly losing his magic too. It's also possible that instead of his doom being self-inflicted, he was just unfortunate enough to talk to the omniscient all-hating prophetic tree that even a few words from is almost guaranteed to cause an horrifying disaster because, being omniscient, he can cause you to react in exactly the way that will lead to the worst possible outcome

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Feb 10, 2012

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


404GoonNotFound posted:

Didn't he mention somewhere that the chalkboard battles played out in his mind like Starcraft matches?

I find Starcraft Chalk Battles to be extremely hard to visualize.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


And at the beginning, both sides are just collecting a ton of chalk before actually doing anything.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


The cosmology is so ridiculously demented and complex in Brandon's multiverse that 'atheism' is probably the smartest thing despite the existence of gods - pretty much all of the deities are a fraction of a god at best, and the large majority of them seem either batshit insane or seem to be alien and almost completely detached from humanity. Honestly, I wouldn't even trust Preservation completely, considering how 'preservation' would imply eternal unchangingness and stasis (at least Sazed/Harmony is fairly 'hands off' due to the inherent nature of his conflicting aspects), and Honor is heavily implied to be dead in Way of Kings, so..

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Bullio posted:

Wait, so Alloy of Law is standalone? I was hoping to get more of Wax and Co. I loved that book.

Presumably, the sequel hooks will lead into the second Mistborn trilogy - offhand, I'd guess that the evil plan that was revealed at the end will come to fruition a few generations later (which makes sense, considering what it involved) - just in time for an 'urban' trilogy. I wouldn't be surprised if Wax tries to form some sort of organization or group to stop them, which may linger around during that time

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Feb 24, 2012

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


computer parts posted:

On the other hand, the Red Wedding.

I normally don't care too much about spoilers, but for my friends who are watching the show but haven't read the books, I am keeping my lips completely sealed in that regard. I mean, and here they were shocked when Ned died :allears: - too bad it's still pretty far away, alas.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


I sort of zoomed through Night Angel pretty fast without really digesting it, but I finished it with a positive impression even if it was just a shallow but entertaining action trilogy - I'm surprised to see such vitriol.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


IRQ posted:

Just because we read YA fantasy doesn't mean we don't read "literature" too. Jeez.

Speak for yourself, I wouldn't read "Literature" if you paid me. :colbert:

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Theli posted:

Anyone out there looking for a good fantasy fix while awaiting the next Stormlight Archives book should check out Raven's Shadow Book One: Blood Song by Anthony Ryan.

A friend recommended it to me, so despite the dumb title I decided to read it.

I just finished it and I have to say, it is easily the best series opening I have read since Way of Kings. Considering the fact that it's a self-published book from an unknown author, it's very impressive. I don't know where this guy came from, but knows how to write a drat good story.

Check out the reviews on Amazon (or just buy it, it's only $3).

I really enjoyed this book as well, but was afraid of recommending it here because of SA's vitriolic hatred of The Name of the Wind, of which it very loosely resembles :ssh:.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


I haven't actually even touched Alcatraz yet - is it worth reading at all? I usually can't stand YA.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


I was worried after the unenthusiastic reviews, but I really enjoyed The Rithmatist quite a lot. I mean sure, yeah it's YA, and it shows, and there's a few weak areas in the story, but they're unimportant to the overall experience, and the world was really rather fascinating, and although there was no 'Sanderson Avalanche' there's still a lot of pretty cool bits and reveals spread throughout, and I admit I'm really curious about what's going on with the Chalklings, Nebrask, the initiation room, the shadows, and Rithmatism in general. Plus, the whole real-time-strategy magic was surprisingly clever - and in the end surprisingly dark. The wild chalklings being vague nightmareish monster-scribbles that crawl along the floor and get into your skin and devour you alive ends up working a lot better than I thought when I heard of 'drawn chalk monsters'

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


I like how he's trying for a Steelheart movie, and somehow managed to get a producer 'very engaged and very excited' about it even though it hasn't even been released as a book yet.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Eric the Mauve posted:

Just finished Steelheart and absolutely loved it. A few of the twists were fairly predictable but I didn't think it detracted from my enjoyment of the story at all. I actually prefer Young Adult fiction a lot of the time, as it usually dispenses with literary frills (I read for plots and characters, not to challenge my brain to unwind the writing or to admire the author's artistic talent with words).

Like most my only serious complaint about the book is the using 'spark' in place of 'gently caress'. On one hand it's something Sanderson readers are well accustomed to as it's part of the peace he's made with Mormonism; on the other hand even absent that I'm pretty sure the publisher would have required a soundalike swear word because the book was aimed into the YA genre anyway. On the third hand, drat is it annoying in this particular setting. I don't mind it in fantasy novels set on fictional planets where it's kind of justifiable, but in a story set on Earth in the not-very-distant future it's not justifiable and jarring.

Edit: Okay, one more minor complaint I can think of: The pretty much instant acceptance of the protagonist by everyone on the team except Megan, especially since he's pretty much making all the plans and they're following his lead, is fantastically unrealistic for a whole mess of reasons and strains my suspension of disbelief. This is definitely the most Mary Sue-ish Sanderson protagonist yet. I understand this is kind of a tradition in the genre, but I don't like it much.

To be fair, there wasn't really enough book to allow the team to accept him more slowly, so they just used him knowing something about Steelheart's weakness as an excuse

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Eric the Mauve posted:

OK, here's another gigantic plothole in Steelheart in my opinion (this is what I do, I can turn off my logic while enjoying a story but after I'm done I start thinking it through): Prof and Tia are not idiots, have well-developed survival instincts, and are aware of what illusionist Epics can do, so there is no way they wouldn't instantly strongly suspect Megan of being an Epic the instant they realized she couldn't "use" the tensors or harmsways.

Also, as an illusionist, she could easily 'fake' it enough to give the impression that she can in fact use them, just too poorly to bother

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


mallamp posted:

Everyone's talking about Steelheart already.. which I'll read next, but I just finished Rithmatist and
Why don't they just go to Nebrask with some sort of plane (or zeppelin or whatever they have in the steampunk/gearpunk world of theirs, surely they have something other than that train-thing) and pour acid everywhere? 2D-monsters couldn't defend it right? What about huge acid-cannons and stuff like that, they have rifles so there has been human wars to draw inspiration from, why do they fight fair? Usually Sanderson explains stuff like this so did I miss something?
Can't wait for Rithmatist 2 though.. and I'm not even YA fan.

It's probably because they don't have enough industrial-strength acid to drown tens/hundreds of thousands of miles of wilderness in acid, especially considering that many of the evil chalk figures apparently hang out in caves/underground

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


I wonder how allomantic technology will 'work' - it seems like Allomancy is something to do with people, not something inherent in metals themselves. The 'magic' comes from the Larasium that they or an ancestor ate, and it's not like they have any of that around to experiment on. Maybe Atium is inherently magical, considering it's a 'magic metal' like Larasium?

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


api call girl posted:

His widow. Well, that and Mraille and the other Ghostbloods/misc factions.

Speaking of factions, I can't help but think there are WAY TOO MANY of them now. Diagram, Ghostbloods, Skybreakers(?), the dude Szeth picks up at the end, whoever Amaram is working with, the Seventeenth Shard, Hoid, etc. Too much happening under the surface, and more than half of them seem to be doing the same things for different reasons but are still working "against" each other. It even seems like more than a few of those factions shouldn't even exist by now since the Final Devastation/Everstorm has actually arrived, yet there they are.


This is a work of epic fantasy - I honestly love the countless intertwining characters/factions. I admit some of it sometimes goes over my head a bit, and I have a poor memory of Warbreaker and Elantris so many of the less obvious cameos are not immediately recognizable to me, but one of the appeals of the books so far to me is the whole mysterious, initially alien and incomprehensible world/mythology/society it's set in slowly being revealed and explained and making sense and part of some grander tapestry, and all the factions are part of this, to me. Of course, still being so early it feels like we're getting just tantalizing glimpses of what's really happening and it's torture - though there was a whole lot more plot development in this than i'd expect for book two in a ten plus book series.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


The Sandman posted:

Question, though: did any of the bonded spren have the same reaction to Shardplate that they did to the Shardblades (and by the by, I'm personally going with using the term "Shardblade" for one made from a dead spren and "Oathblade" for one that's an alternate form of a living spren, because there's definitely some big differences)? I'm not sure they did.

Also, it's interesting that stormspren are apparently a type of Voidspren, given that the Stormfather himself is more-or-less the ghost of Honor and is the progenitor of the normal spren. Something odd going on there, I think. I'm also left wondering if there are any spren linked to Cultivation instead, to say nothing of whether Cultivation is still alive (although I'm guessing she is, since I doubt Odium/Rayse would still be in this solar system if he'd murdered and splintered all the local Shards; at the very least, he'd be on Roshar itself instead of Braize).

That chapter is, IIRC, from the perspective of an uneducated thirteen-year old who's probably spent most of her life on the streets. What do you think she's going to sound like?

I had initially been under the impression that Nightmother is to cultivation-spren as Stormfather is to Honor-spren, but things don't seem to work out so cleanly as that. The weird bit is that for at least some of the Knights Radiant spren, who all presumably come from Honor and not just the 'honorspren', some of them seem to be the sort of 'natural forces' spren that would PRESUMABLY be Cultivation's shtick, just granted intelligence - windspren into honorspren, and the plant-spren the thief girl had. It's possible that since presumably the world was created by an interplay between Cultivation and Honor, (and maybe Odium, though he may have come later?) that some (all..?) spren are from both of them instead of just one of them. Then again, there's also this 'old magic' that we know nothing about that's presumably all Cultivation's shtick.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Tunicate posted:

That's my guess. Makes sense he'd want to kick back somewhere that he doesn't need to eat souls to survive.

As far as I've heard it, in Warbreaker, a Breath really isn't a 'soul' - it's an extra bit of investiture from whichever Shard hangs out on that world - presumably a human without a Breath is the same as a normal human anywhere else, but since everyone is born with one, losing a Breath is like suddenly becoming colorblind after seeing color for most of your life, or suddenly losing your sense of taste when eating food - you've had this extra vibrancy to your senses for your entire life so it became normal to you, and as such losing it is somewhat traumatic. And apparently they boost your immune system and make you healthier, so presumably you can become sickly because suddenly something your immune system depended on is gone. It also makes it not quite as unethical to be collecting hundreds/thousands of them, and for a Returned to be actually consuming them, compared to human souls.

Still, the main problem with that world is the fact that the only time a Breath is created is when someone is born, and a single Breath seems to be almost insignificant considering how many you need do anything that matters. Stormlight is ridiculously generous in comparison - the place is probably practically a paradise for worldhoppers, especially since Stormlight seems to be pure, raw, energy that's extremely easy to collect in large amounts instead of requiring a lot of ritual or effort or specific inborn talents to either collect or use like most of the other worlds we've seen.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Mar 8, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Man, it's just tragic to consider that it's going to be decades before Stormlight is finished with the one book every two years pattern going on, since SA 3 is apparently going to be released in 2016. And that's not even considering any big epic that ties all the Cosmere books together that might begin during or after it. Not blaming him, just agonizing over the wait, hah.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 9, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


enigma74 posted:

Excellent book, wanted to chime in on something. Has any one noted the similarity of the Diagram faction to the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov (science fiction). In the Foundation, a brilliant mathematician created psychohistory which could be used to predict the future. Then, Hari Seldon created an organization called Foundation to execute his plan to save a remnant of humanity from a predicted galactic collapse. Of course, the Foundation were the "good guys" in Asimov's book, as opposed to the "bad guys" in Words of Radiance."

I don't think that the Diagram faction is going to end up as absolute 'bad guys' per se - Odium and his lackeys are obviously the true enemy. They're ruthless enough that they will probably end up opposing the main characters a lot, but in the end they too are trying to save the world, and not out of any greed or malice, and they have a plan written by what was possibly written by what was possibly the smartest person to ever exist in the entire cosmere who was at least partially informed by all the prophecies from the death rattles - there's a good chance that the Diagram will play a huge part in saving the world. Hell, in a way, their machinations that attempted to followed that pattern set up the events allowing Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar to become Knights Radiant in the right place and the right time, and the Diagram even said that it would happen - It's possible that the people just following it weren't smart enough to fully understand what the plan in the Diagram was actually supposed to accomplish, and how.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


L-O-N posted:

It is theorized that Wit switched the Honorblade with a normal Shardblade.

Ending: Looks like Nightblood is called a Shardblade. I guess Shardblades are generic terms for weapons made of Splinters?

I'm very excited for book 3 as it looks like the Radiants are going back the old people who knew them before they were Radiants. Kalladin going to his parents and Roshone and Laral. Shallan's brothers coming to her. Dalinar going back to Kholinar. It's one reason I liked The Shadow Rising so this will be exciting as well

Also, after looking at how similar the word Kalladin is to Shallan and Dalinar (L, 2 A's,and N), no wonder people think Kalladin is a light eye's name.

I'm pretty sure that he just calls it a Shardblade because an actual explanation of what Nightblood really is, where it is from, and how it got there would break Szeth's mind, and so he calls it by the name of the only magical swords that exist in that world.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Adolin better not become evil. :colbert: Sometimes a tiny bit of pragmatism is a good thing, instead of letting a guy who has gotten countless people killed out of ambition and no sign that he wouldn't do it again in a heartbeat run around as literally one of the most powerful men in their nation because ~honor~. What if the king really was a 100% putrid useless rear end in a top hat that would ruin everything and doom the world instead of redeemable as he turned out to be - deposing him may have been the right thing to do, despite all the hand-wringing by Syl. Somebody needs to be around that isn't magically bound to do the honorable thing without being a bad guy. :v:

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


treeboy posted:

i didn't get the sense that they were *actually* evil, more of a "hey they kinda do creepy-ish stuff which some people sorta superstitiously see as evil"

Adolin stabbing a dude in the eye because he deserves it and then hiding his involvement kinda goes along with it. I'm sure there's an order that's whole shtick is "we do what we have to, sometimes that isn't pretty or *strictly* legal but its always Just." All the orders are supposed to agree with "ends don't justify means" but that doesn't mean he can't be "Chaotic Good" to use D&D parlance

as for Elhokar, he's not an evil king, just an incompetent one. His wife on the other hand sounds like a real winner.


Yeah, I didn't mean them, I meant the speculation that Adolin would ACTUALLY become evil. He could get a voidspren or something. Then again, that would actually be interesting if it doesn't mind control you into becoming a horrible monster like Steel Inquisitors - but after seeing what they did to the Parshendi I wouldn't count on it.

And yeah, I was going 'what if' with the king, I know Elhokar wasn't evil.


But, with all the crazy poo poo Shallan has done I don't think we need to be too worried.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


If there was ever a shard you could trust not to gently caress with you, it'd probably the the one called 'Harmony'. Then again, the cosmic personification of harmony probably becomes compelled to stamp out people who want to cause enough chaos and disorder to upend any harmony or balance, so who knows. However Odium is probably pretty much the closest you can get to the opposite of Harmony and is one of the most, or the most, powerful shard, so aiding anyone opposing him is probably something Harmony would feel obliged to do, even if it wasn't Sazed. I wouldn't be surprised if Harmony gave Hoid a couple of 'gifts'. It could be how he became a Feruchemist - the quintessential Harmony magic. Helping Hoid, the enemy of Odium, become uber-powerful helps balance out the conflict.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Mar 11, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Locker Room Zubaz posted:

Welp just finished WoR yesterday and was really happy with how good it was, I didn't really love the first book but this really had a whole lot of story and a lot of characters becoming even more awesome. My only fear is that Sanderson will not deal with power creep well and Kaladin will be super powered like Vin was in Mistborn.

Also WRT Dalinar What the hell does a bondsmith do? Is his power just to unite others? Because from my understanding he isn't going to be getting a shard blade out of his deal with the Stormfather.

Actually what do all of the schools of magic do? Not just their oaths but the actual powers they get, as far as I know we have only seen Edgedancing, Windrunning, and Lightweaving to any real extent but my reading comprehension when I am reading books I enjoy is pretty crappy so I probably missed tons of things.

I really really liked Lift's chapter and wish we got more of her, she was much more fun than most of the other characters in the book and it was actually a nice change of pace from the somber brooding mood that most of Kaladin's chapters were.

We don't know, yet - We know pretty much poo poo all about Voidbinding and Old Magic, I'm pretty sure we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with the Fabrial magic system, and the surges we haven't seen haven't been spoiled by Sanderson in any real detail as far as I know. He seems to like to keep most of the underlying rules of a magic system secret until they are revealed in the book or until the book series is over, in which case he will explain some of the 'behind the scenes' details. A lot of the rules will be involved in plot twists, so keeping them under wraps is to his advantage to keep people on their toes.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Locker Room Zubaz posted:

Wait... There is a link between Mistborn and Stormlight?

Here's most of the crossover stuff I'm aware of.


Elantris, Warbreaker, Emperor's Soul, Mistborn, Stormlight, Alloy of Law - are all in the same universe. Odium is not, in fact, native to Roshar and came in and ruined things after Honor and Cultivation and possibly? a forgotten third god created that world. Odium is the reason that Elantris broke, and apparently killed one or both of the gods in the Elantris world, which is why it was such a shitheap. Ruin, Preservation, Devotion (the god that gives the Elantris people their magic), Endowment (the god that gives Breath to people in the Warbreaker world), Odium, Honor, and Cultivation are all part of the same 'pantheon', and are in fact all people like Sazed that inherited godliness somehow and ended up creating a bunch of worlds. There's apparently 16 'shards' overall, which are all fragments of a supreme god that died - this is part of why Ruin and Preservation formed into a greater whole, since they were supposed to be together from the start.

Vasher from Warbreaker is Zahel. Hoid is Wit, and has also been in every single cosmere book, usually being some almost unnoticed extra or side character observing the main characters. Hoid stole the second to last bead of Lerasium just before the finale in Well of Ascension. Hoid also recently acquired perfect pitch, which shows that he's got a bunch of Breath in him, too. Sanderson mentioned at some point that Hoid was a feruchemist as well. In one of the interludes from Way of Kings, at least one character from Elantris was spotted, searching for Hoid. In the little letter snippets in Way of Kings, it's implied that Hoid is writing it to someone else also on Roshar, and it mentions how Ati wasn't that bad of a guy before he took up a shard. (Ruin was named Ati when he was human - Atium. Preseveration was Leras - Lerasium). There's probably more that I've missed.

Odium is probably one of the major villains of the entire overarching plot, considering he actively seeks out and destroys other shards on other worlds, leaving ruined worlds in his wake.

Apparently, some/all of the origin stories of this pantheon + hoid will be explained in a future Dragonsteel series. They're all apparently from the 'original' world created by the original god.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


enigma74 posted:

So Hoid/Wit basically has access to at least two sets of magic systems, breath and feruchemy. At any point, he could also turn himself into a mistborn by eating up the bead of lerasium he's been keeping for a rainy day. Plus he might even have Taln's honorblade!

Plus, he has at LEAST one more than that - none of the books we've seen are where he was born, which means he has at least one more of some sort of magic that allows world-hopping - and who knows what else it could do - apparently several of the systems we've seen so far are capable of allowing worldhopping. Shallan/Jasnah seem to be the closest, as apparently Hoid worldhops by travelling through Shadesmar somehow, and apparently the Elantris dudes managed to enter Shadesmar at one point as well, but it was apparently 'extremely difficult' for them to figure out as worldhopping was a big of a square peg to the round hole of Elantris magic (I'm guessing due to the fact that you have to be near the actual city for the magic to function?). Allomancy will apparently manage to get FTL travel by abusing the hell out of physics loopholes opened up by Allomancy, which would allow them to reach other worlds, as they're all in the same physical universe, too - this will apparently happen in a distant Mistborn trilogy, as things get more 'modern' and then eventually sci-fi.

Another thing I forgot about, one that's briefly mentioned in Way of Kings - the Elantrians are apparently part of some sort of worldhopping organization called the 'seventeenth shard' that is looking for Hoid but isn't working with him, (but not necessarily against him?). This organization has a member who is the one that writes the Ars Arcanum at the end of every single sanderson cosmere book, and explains why it gets more detailed as the books go on - they're 'researching' the magic of that world and discovering the specifics as the series goes on. It's apparently always the same person who writes it, too.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Mar 12, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Superstring posted:

Have we gotten hints on who's the ultimate bad guy in the Cosmere? Ruin was Mistborn's bad guy. Odium is Stormlight's. I imagine the fabled Dragonsteel is going to have an enemy so powerful they'll need a veritable Justice League of the Cosmere.

I dunno - Odium MIGHT be the one, but I doubt he's going to be the final big bad - but who knows? He's traveled to several worlds, and murdered several gods, which as far as I know makes him unique - and it's implied that he was a psychopath even before he became a god, so he could fit!

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


The Puppy Bowl posted:

Stormlight is supposed to be 8 more books, Mistborn 5 more, Whitesand 3, Steelheart 2, Elantris 1, Dragonsteel 7(?), and 10 other miscellaneous projects.

That's around 36 books Sanderson already has a concept for. If you gave him 100 years G.R.R.M. couldn't write that. If you gave me 10 I couldn't read that. I fully expect Sanderson to have all this done in 17 years. The man doesn't even vaguely qualify as human.

I know, isn't it great? However, I zip through his books so goddamn fast that if you gave me a month and all 36 books I could probably put a significant dent in it (as long as they all aren't Stormlight length, anyway - some of his books are short-medum length, so). A 36 book Sanderson binge would be the most joyous thing. :allears:

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


404GoonNotFound posted:

I would just like to state for the record that I love this image so much that it's been my desktop background for over 2 years now. Book 3 just can't come fast enough.

It seems clear that each of the order's ideals are tied to their surges - it suddenly seems clear why Dustbringers were considered creepy. They are 'division' and 'friction', in contrast to the 'adhesion' and 'gravitation' of the Windrunners.

I also just had a revelation with that Voidbinding chart thing that pretty much proves it's Voidbinding - take a look at the ten glyphs representing the forces/surges (not the colorful ones representing 'orders' or whatever voidbinders have) Compare them to the glyphs on the Surgebinding chart. On each glyph of the Voidbinding chart, the glyph is the same only either the left or the right half of it has been flipped upside down.

If you compare the glyphs for each order with the Voidbinding chart, they're obviously related, but they're both stylized so differently that it's harder to point out any clear pattern like that, though if you look at them all it's clear there is one - they seem like the same pattern kinda flipped inside out - surge points in, void points out, surge points up, void points down.

SilverWingedSeraph posted:

Small point, but only one of the three Seventeenth Shard members that are in Purelake looking for Hoid is an Elantrian. One of them is Galladon, from Elantris. One of the others is Demoux, the Atium Misting who survives the final battle against Ruin in the Mistborn Trilogy. The third member is from an as-yet-unpublished Sanderson work, so we don't know anything about him.
Makes me wonder what tricks he's managed to do with being an Atium Misting... There's almost no more Atium, but perhaps being an Atium mising means he gets to do the Matrix thing whenever he huffs some Stormlight, which would be an incredibly useful power, and could probably stand up even fighters as nasty as Szeth while it lasted.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 12, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


treeboy posted:

Oh i don't think there's anything particularly compassionate about manipulating others (and yourself) to such an extent that you're causing wars, murdering kings, and practically torturing poor Kaladin with the expectation that the suffering will drive them to excel (or get them out of the way)

Reminds me a lot of how in Mistborn they would beat Noble children to make them snap.


He's agreeing with you there - he means that when he's highly intelligent, he has almost no compassion, and when he's highly compassionate, he has almost no intelligence. So, on his day of absolute brilliance he was 100% sociopath, so the Diagram follows that logic. When he's retarded, he weeps for all the terrible poo poo he's done but is powerless to do or understand anything and just sobs in his room.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 12, 2014

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Augster posted:

The Chapter 84 epigraph code has been cracked:

Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return.

Here's how:
Chapter 83 epigraph:


For each letter, find the first occurrence of that letter in that epigraph. For instance O = 1, H = 11

Use that as a substitution into the Chapter 84 epigraph:

Well, isn't that ominous. Though it did seem likely even without that, that whatever dilemma caused the originals to break their oaths and fall would be something for the main characters are going to have to figure out how to deal with too.

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Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Yeah, I honestly prefer characters having full arcs and dying appropriately more than sudden, 'shocking' deaths mid-arc. I mean, I am genuinely interested in all the main characters and what they'll end up doing (even Kaladin, though in a complete reversal I'm more interested in Shallan and Adolin now). Having them die off before we really get to know them sucks and isn't even really that impactful this early in the story.

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