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Wheel of Time should be taught alongside Chaucer.
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# ¿ Jun 3, 2018 22:50 |
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# ¿ Mar 28, 2024 21:22 |
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We should start at the same place every Radiant does, with the First Ideal of the Knights Radiant. Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. On the surface, this seems like a fairly cut-and-dried distillation of a code of ethics. Rules to live by, to guide people faced with difficult decisions. As it turns out, the two of us have very different approaches to the deeper meaning of these words. Ross: Life before death, the Words say, and I hear never kill your adversary when leaving them alive is possible. Killing is the easy way out. We can all change, right up to the point where death obviates the possibility. Paige: Life before death has different connotations for me. I have not only had suicidal thoughts at times, even oftentimes, but I’ve actually longed for that specific escape from the pain and chaos in my mind, so I consider the onerous task of getting through day after agonizing day of life before finally attaining the rest and peace of death. However, on the rare occasions when I feel uplifted, this phrase relays the idea that if I find something to live for, then perhaps I can stave off the ever-present desire for escape. Ross: Strength before weakness seemed to me like a generic positive admonition. Don’t quail in the face of difficult challenges. Pour your entire strength into opposing whatever stands against you, and, while you may not prevail, you’ll certainly stand a better chance than if you’d given up. Basically a more graceful version of, “you miss every shot you don’t take.” Paige: Strength before weakness, to me, feels like an unattainable Ideal. We all have a primitive fight, flight, or freeze response when the brain senses danger of any kind, and I am definitely the flight or freeze kind of girl when my amygdala lights up. Note that I don’t make a conscious choice to do this—rather it’s a symptom of my illness which allows emotion to gain too much power over my behavior. Add anxiety to that mix and it’s often difficult to function. I’ve been referred to as a doormat more often, and by more people, than I care to admit, and it’s rare that I find strength to defend myself. However, call this the Windrunner in me (a title which came from Ross, by the way, because I never would have claimed it myself), but the only time I do feel the urge to fight is when I am moved to defend someone else. Ross: I absolutely named you a Windrunner of the Third Ideal, and I stand by it. You had stuff going on in your life, and you acted precisely as a Windrunner would. Those behaviors are an inseparable part of you, and you deserve the recognition.
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# ¿ Jun 8, 2018 00:15 |
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StonecutterJoe posted:An average novel is 90k words. A WoT or Sanderson doorstopper is a few times that, but let's look at that for a baseline. lol BananaNutkins posted:The entire genre is incestuous to a shameful degree, and that's why I try to encourage people to read outside the genre if they want to write fantasy or sf. Brent Weeks cribs from the Wheel of Time ALOT in the last two Night Angel books. Scott Lynch was inspired by Final Fantasy 6. Joe Abercrombie is pretty savvy and steals from other genres to subvert fantasy genre expectation, but he still follows the hero's journey very blatantly in his first trilogy. What fantasy genre expectations does Joe Abercrombie subvert?
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 09:38 |
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Walh Hara posted:I agree with the assertion that writing a fantasy novel is more comparable to writing the script of a movie/tv show, while writing a literary book is more comparable with creating a true art paintwork. So it makes sense somebody like Sanderson can write much faster than more literary authors. Movie/tv scripts, famously meant to be cranked out without regard for quality.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 12:32 |
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BananaNutkins posted:Genre expectations = regularly used tropes. To subvert a trope, you employ it for a different than standard effect, turn it on its head. The kindly old wizard being the true bad guy is a subversion. Whether that makes it clever or not is subjective. The kindly old wizard in Abercrombie turns out to be exactly what he appers to be. There's no "subversion" with Vulvei or whatever his name was. It's not even a particularly strong "trope". Merlin in Le Morte d'Arthur is a complete prick for example. BananaNutkins posted:Genre writing is hard work despite your lack of appreciation for it. If writing a bestseller was easy, everyone would do it. Literary criticism holds little merit. It's a tightrope. Can you grab a large fanbase by giving them what they want while twisting things enough that it leaves them hungry for more? You personally may not see the point, but your lack of respect for hard working people speaks to your immaturity. bold of you to equate profit with artistic success
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 16:28 |
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Proteus Jones posted:You are not a gatekeeper of what is and isn't art. Correction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msqUsa2I_OA (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 16:40 |
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Is the Gatekeeper the next form of the Shardbearer?
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 17:00 |
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Cicero posted:No. Bayaz definitely comes across as the trope of a benevolent but mysterious old wizard at the start of the book. It turns out later on that he's much less benevolent than he initially appeared. He's not, like, pure evil, but his alignment on that axis is neutral at best. That's not subversive. Thomas Malory beat Abercrombie to this half a millenium ago.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 17:42 |
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Cicero posted:It's subversive compared to the standard trope. It doesn't have to be totally unique or innovative to be subversive. There's nothing inherently rebellious in "subverting tropes," which is a nonsense phrase cooked up by a wiki with an index of Rape Tropes and a list of homoerotic relationships in webcomics. A subversive work would be something that undermines authority instead of inspiring weary resignation about how bad everything is like Abercrombie does. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 12, 2018 |
# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 20:38 |
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Getting back on Sanderson, I remember someone pointing out something along the lines of how the few instances of sex in his books are rape. Is that still true or did he stop being a weirdo?
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 20:45 |
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Odd how people forget the genocidal rape in Mistborn.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 21:19 |
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CharlestheHammer posted:I just finished mistborn and that doesn’t happen no. Literally the only sex even implied is between the married couple, and it’s implied. What exactly do you think a "breeding program" entails?
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 21:29 |
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh I thought you meant in a positive light, why didn’t you bring up the fact slaves were raped and was a pretty big plot point. Especially in the first book. That’s actually stated. The breeding programs are more eugenics. So sex in Sanderson's work is either rape or married chastity. A rather bizarre dichotomy.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 21:39 |
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CharlestheHammer posted:[Sex] is there mostly to serve the plot or world building. I don't think you realize exactly what a depressing thing this is to say.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 21:47 |
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Captain Monkey posted:You're considering things like 'context' and 'story' not just trying to derail a thread with wild accusations of rape fetishizment against the staunchly Mormon author who barely even mentions sex. No one is accusing the author of rape fetishism. What's being criticized is what Charlesthehammer inadvertently observed: Sanderson's fiction is ideally sexless, and rape and consensual sex are equally unspeakable things in it.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 22:03 |
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I'm not requesting anything. I'm observing that in Sanderson's fiction, rape and consensual sex are equally shameful things.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 22:10 |
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CharlestheHammer posted:No your being critical because he isn’t giving you the details you need. Luckily if you go on Amazon.com their are ton of books to feel your need. I'm not critical because of a lack of details. I've observed, as others have, that Sanderson treats rape the same as consensual sex. The reason why he's so popular is the same as for other de-eroticized fantasies, like those of Tolkien and Steven Brust: the sexlessness is the show.
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# ¿ Nov 12, 2018 22:16 |
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People have internalized the mindset of Sanderson's mormon fans: fiction can be either sexless or it can be erotica self-published on Amazon. Erotic imagination is an important thing for an author to have. Umberto Eco and Italo Calvino owe a lot to Borges, but are fundamentally more exciting writers because they're not monkishly celibate in their writing like Borges. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Nov 21, 2018 |
# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 07:20 |
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“We had this fellow called Magnus. Count Magnus Wolfram. Who was bald, tattoed, looked like a comic book hero. And I got them all in a room, and I said, ‘Look, does anyone in this room know a count? No. Does anybody in this room know anybody called Magnus? No. Does anybody really want to be in this guy’s skin? Since this is a first person play, why would you want to be in this man’s skin? Why would you want to play [as him]?’ And so we threw him out, and I said, ‘Look. You’ve got a gay man in charge here. Bring me somebody I want to sleep with. Bring me somebody fabulously sexy.’ Sanderson's characters are the same as Count Magnus Wolfram. Absolutely unfuckable. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 17:14 |
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The quote is also extra relevant because Sanderson has written a hundred aristocrats without ever knowing one in person.
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# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 18:14 |
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:Anything romantic or erotic Brandon Sanderson has written was already done in a 19th century Franco Prussian land transfer document and way better on sanderson
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# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 19:05 |
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Torrannor posted:This has some good points, but also some errors. From the currently known timeline, there were a lot fewer spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation showed up. Their investiture, and/or a mixture of said investiture, led to the formation of a lot of new spren. But even so, those spren either didn't form bonds with the Parshendi, or those bonds didn't grant the Parshendi surgebinding (the latter seems unlikely, considering Venli and Timbre). Whatever the case, there was apparently no surgebinding before humans came to Roshar. The humans then bonded with certain spren and got surgebinding. Then the Heralds noticed, and Ishar forced the structure of the Knights Radiants on them. The depth of Sanderson's world-building is really cool.
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# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 18:37 |
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Mel Mudkiper posted:if anything that whole thing has proven to me world building is a really bad idea I think you're being too harsh.
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# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 18:46 |
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You should enjoy Sanderson as much as you want
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# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 18:53 |
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And move them forward on the Hero's Journey.
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# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 18:56 |
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Torrannor posted:I mean, the magic collars that compel a channeler's obedience are real. The question is, is that a fetish? . Yes it is (the above is by definition a positive statement)
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 16:45 |
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pikachode posted:[timg]https://i.imgur.com/RdzYIKo.jpg[/timg] thought-provoking, blisteringly erotic, life-affirming MOD EDIT: don't quote NWS stuff, thanks Somebody fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Feb 10, 2019 |
# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 17:08 |
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Maybe also ban the anachronistic inns? A constructive suggestion.
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 17:34 |
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A continuous multivolume series that starts badly is never going to get good three books in. An author who labours on the same series for that long has neither the time nor the opportunity for self-improvement. I admire their stamina, though!
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 18:04 |
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My faith in our Lord is not bad.
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 18:16 |
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Data Graham posted:Doesn’t Terry Brooks improve after Sword of Shannara? Look into your heart and you will know the answer. It's "yes, most gallantly!"
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 19:16 |
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Oathbringer, Doorstopper, Worldbuilder
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 20:43 |
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Farthuffer. Peace upon you.
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 20:44 |
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A human heart posted:the worm ouroboros has women in it and it's from 1922. hell, it looks to me like fantasy fans don't even know anything about the history of their genre of choice In 1924 there was a cinematic fantasy epic with feminist themes, a female protagonist, and sympathetic orcs, before anyone complained about the lack of those in LOTR
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 23:12 |
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Data Graham posted:FWIW, I like to remind myself from time to time of how trope-subverting Tolkien was at the time. When he was writing, it was against a backdrop of classical mythology and Arthurian legend, which was full of champions and princes and demigods as the protagonists, and as often as not they were on quests to seek out a talisman of legendary power. LotR was kind of a crazy departure in that it made fat little gluttonous Edwardian smurfs into the heroes, and they were trying to get rid of their magic doohickey, not win it from a dragon or whatever. Hobbits weren't a particularly radical choice for heroes back when The Hobbit was successful novel in recent memory. Not to mention that the Hobbits serve as a bourgeois viewpoint in an alien world, which makes them extremely conventional characters. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Feb 8, 2019 |
# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 23:19 |
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Our heroes are cheery Englishmen. Trope busted!
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 23:25 |
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~*subverting tropes*~ is bullshit But I like the world-building.
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# ¿ Feb 8, 2019 23:50 |
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"Yes, Lady Vin," Sazed said. "You see, Tindwyl spent most of her life as a Terris mother." Vin hesitated, hand in pocket, looking surprised. "You mean... she was a Breeder?" Sazed nodded. The Lord Ruler's breeding program included selecting a few, special individuals to use for birthing new children—with the goal being to breed Feruchemy out of the population. "Tindwyl had, at last count, birthed over twenty children," he said. "Each with a different father. Tindwyl had her first child when she was fourteen, and spent her entire life being taken repeatedly by strange men until she became pregnant. And, because of the fertility drugs the Breeding masters forced upon her, she often bore twins or triplets." "I... see," Vin said softly.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2019 10:53 |
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# ¿ Mar 28, 2024 21:22 |
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Sab669 posted:Cool, the Audible app crashes when I try to play this one part of Gathering Storm. The prose is too radical and powerful for any audio software to handle
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# ¿ Mar 11, 2019 01:30 |