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Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

L-O-N posted:

Was that Nightblood there at the end? How the hell?

At a guess, which could be completely wrong, Hoid. He gets around. Apparently also has one of (Mistborn trilogy spoiler aheadbits of metal that turn you into a mistborn, too. Mind you, he doesn't have a monopoly on inter-world travel.

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Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Narmi posted:


We haven't seen anything to imply that shardplates and shardblades come from the same source. Renarin was wearing his shardplate just fine, but when he took one of the dead shardblades he broke down. Also Syl has specifically only mentioned that shardblades make her uncomfortable, but has said nothing about the armor.

It's possible the Knights Radiant figured out how to created their own armor based. Given that these have to be "powered" by a gem they seem more like really advanced fabrials.




Aren't fabrials just imprisoned spren? I recall reading somewhere that is what they truly are (and its hinted in an interlude in book 1 by the spren researchers "this might change the way we make fabrials"). So shardplate would still need a spren at some stage to give it 'life'

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
I was wandering around the coppermind, and found that Hemalurgy could potentially be used to steal a shardblade. Perhaps Hoid can do this, and this is how he takes Talns honorblade? Mind you, honorblades are different to regular shardblades, perhaps meant to be shareable, so maybe he just took it.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
Yeah, I do think it is pretty unlikely. If it were to be a major plot point Sanderson probably wouldn't have answered the question the way he did. Just because it is possible, doesn't mean it happens.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

The Glumslinger posted:

This seems like a good time to mention that at the recent book signing I was at, Brandon did a reading from another series where bacteria and viruses have evolved to give people superpowers while they are sick to make themselves more likely to spread. No clue if it is Cosmere related.


I'm sure I've read something of that sort before. I mean, it is an interesting idea and can go a number of ways. Patrick Ness did it in the chaos walking series and I'm sure that isn't the only author to use that idea.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Superstring posted:

I don't think anyone even knew Honorblades gave radiant powers except the Shin? Or that Taln had an Honorblade instead of a regular Shardblade?

Well, the Parshendi did (from the Parshendi Excerpt: "They have surgebinders." "Maybe not. Could it have been an honorblade?")

quote:

szeth coming back pissed me off until I realized that Nin the herald had done it and then loving Nightblood! I need to reread Warbreaker now since I'm pretty sure Nightblood shares many aspects with share blades and would likely be able to feed off storm light just as it does breath since both are simply forms of investiture. Makes me wonder also if Nightblood was an "artificially created" spren. Perhaps it has more to do with spiritual realm vs cognitive realm stuff

Cosmere spoilers: Spren are shards of Honor (although some are Honor/Cultivation), and so a shardblade is also a shard of Honor. In Warbreaker, Breath is a shard of Endowment, so Nightblood being a sword animated from breath makes Nightblood a sword which is also a shard. In Warbreaker Nightblood works slightly differently from shardblades - leaves blackened wounds, not burnt out eyes. But that could be just because of the way he was made, or because he's from a different shard of Adonalsium. Nightblood probably also has a big part to play in this. He was made to 'destroy evil' and handily, we've got Odium, which is just about as evil as Ruin.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Furious Lobster posted:

Yes, that's quite true and in a culture that glorifies war, this trait would have gone far in making his previous life very enjoyable.

It sounds like at the time he enjoyed it, but looking back he thinks 'holy crap I was a dick'.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

nucleicmaxid posted:

Don't forget that we have literally no idea what happened with his wife.

And neither does he.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

api call girl posted:




According to Hoid/Wit (and probably, a map), the Everstorm is headed to Shinovar next. Justice Herald is about to send Szeth there. Next book is Szeth pov, I think? Cool poo poo going down.




The nightmother (Cultivation?) is out there somewhere, and Shinovar seems like the ideal home for Cultivation. I wonder how much power she has to protect against the everstorm?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
Being immortal is a pretty good way to go insane, even without the torture. I'm sure the heralds have seen so many things, even forgotten so much, that they're no longer as sane as most mortals.

It makes you wonder how sane Hoid is...

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

api call girl posted:

*handwaves* it'll still pretty much cut stone, eat/burn souls, probably get powered off Stormlight which won't be a problem if Szeth is a Surgebinder now without the need of an Honorblade ... it just won't vanish and resummon like one. *handwaves*

also what's kind of interesting is "live" Shardblades, being spren, do talk


Most shardblades aren't created with the single command 'DESTROY EVIL', though

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Hopeford posted:

Holy poo poo, it's like Hoid is treating magic systems like they are Pokemon.

And hopefully not being controlled by twitch...

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Narmi posted:

Yeah, after she washes up on the frostlands she's about to go over (to make a fire I think), and we see that land in Roshar is not necessarily land in Shadesmar, but I never knew that the entire continent was like a cut-out of the other.

e:The first time she visits Shadesmar she almost drowns too, so I guess it was hinted at since WoK.


I had assumed from WoK that Shadesmar was all just a sea of balls. Which confused me a little when they started hinting at Spren cities and societies and all that. I guess I just assumed they were under the sea of balls, floating on it, or there were several different 'interpretations' of Shadesmar.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
I'm re-reading Warbreaker, and when Siri starts to teach Susebron to read, the first letter of the first word she ever teaches him is 'shash'. Dangerous...

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

MildShow posted:

The first set of annotations for Alloy of Law went up earlier today. They cover chapters 2-10, but not 1 or the prologue, for some reason.

One thing I picked out from this:

quote:

At this point, he’s working hard to discover what’s going on with the other Shards and to keep another disaster from coming Scadrial’s way.

quote:

[Harmony] sees his primary role being to encourage people to be better, to keep an eye on the other Shards, and to make sure the world keeps working as it should.

It looks like Harmony is looking outwards to see whats going on with the other shards. That could well mean that he has agents on Roshar, although I don't think Sanderson has said how much time has passed since the events of Mistborn/Hero of Ages and the Way of Kings. It could be millenia for all we know, since one form or another of immortality is not uncommon in the Cosmere.

If Way of Kings is right after mistborn Harmony might too be busy rebuilding Scadrial to bother with what Odium is up to.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Cicero posted:

Also his shardblade is the closest one to a katana in design, I think.

Also windrunners have a pretty anime style of fighting/generally going about their business.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
I don't have a problem with it seeming a bit anime.

There are way worse things than a bit of over the top action scenes and flashy magic. At least we don't have to read through chapter upon chapter of characters being creepy towards women, or read characters deliberately written to be repulsive, or have the authors opinion on social policies/obamacare shoved down our throats every page. I guess my point is, this doesn't ruin the book or make it unreadable.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Hopeford posted:

Until this is proven to be false, I'll forever be convinced that the funky stone throwing game is like Calvinball and there are no actual rules to it.

The rules appear to be, he who gives the least fucks gets the most points

Actually, there is a question to ask at a book signing. Are there rules for the ball game Lightsong plays in Warbreaker, and what are they?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

From there:

quote:

The Parshendi appear to have a strongly developed sense of honor in battle, ignoring the wounded and vulnerable to attack the most dangerous foes.
Why do they focus on Sadeas' bridgemen in WoK then? Does tactical importance override their honor towards not attacking the vulnerable?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

404GoonNotFound posted:

Come on, it's Lift. How is this even a question?

Lift vs Wit rap battle. Word.


Someone was looking for questions to ask at a signing. Maybe we need a ruling on the rap controversy.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Tunicate posted:

Yeah. It's called Ashyn. The third planet in the system is Braize, where Odium hangs out.

So when the heralds come back from there (aka Hell) for the next desolation, you could say that they've been... braised.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

NecroMonster posted:

I finished WoR and now I'm going to post a couple of things/observations/crazy theories for people to make fun of!

1) This world (Roshar?) was created by Cultivation. The plants, animals, and people of this world (that is the parshendi/listeners and not the humans) and most of the spren are of Cultivation originally. Honor (and humans and Horses and a few other animals) came to this place later, at the same time as, or sometime before Odium came to this planet.

2) Cultivation is destroyed, diminished, or bound in some way that prevents it (her?) from acting or changing this planet. Maybe Odium shattered her like he did the shards of the elantris world, maybe something else happened, but she's effectively gone. The parshendi/listeners feel as if the spren abandoned them, and turned to/found their "gods" in response. Their "gods" are of course Odium/Odium spren.

3) The highstorms are of Honor, as it is a splinter/spren of his that controls/causes them. The Highstorms bring nutrients (in the form of crem) that the life of this planet depends on to survive. The rains (or at least the rains of the weeping) do not. They also bring stormlight, which the people and spren of Honor use in order to fight Odium. The Highstorms are an attempt by Honor to make up for the loss/diminishment of Cultivation and a means of opposing Odium.

4) In Cultivations absence Odium has "take over" her creations. He uses his spren to transform all of Cultivations creation in order to twist it into a weapon for use against Honor. Every animal native to Roshar as well as the plants and the very stones can be twisted by these Odium spren.

5) Odium did not kill Honor, Honor committed suicide. Honor tricked Odium into making an agreement that would bind Odium to this planet, and as deception and manipulation are against Honor's nature, this act destroyed him.

I feel like all of these but #5 are sure bets. #5 is honestly just a guess based on the themes of these books and what I know of the nature of shardholders, and it's likely wrong, but I felt the need to get it out there anyway.
Re: 2. The fact that Cultivation doesn't appear to be doing an anything certainly is telling. Honor is certainly putting on a show of force - The knights radiant, the Heralds, etc. Cultivation might just be of a pacifist nature, after all gardeners are not known for getting involved in wars. Then again, if Cultivation is broken that also explains the inaction
Re: 3. I always thought the fact that the highstorms brought crem/nutrients implied that they are at least partially of Cultivation. Then again, Dalinars visions from Honor also came via Highstorm, as does stormlight, so my personal understanding was that highstorms are something like the Mists on Scadrial - they are part of the body of Honor and Cultivation (and Odium might even be mixed in there too).

As seen on Scadrial, shards of Adonalsium were once part of a whole and so can be re-combined. Preservation and Ruin were basically opposites and were combined to create a more balanced whole. In the same way, I see Odium and Honor as being more or less opposites. Cultivation would reinforce Honor, and might curb the destructive tendency of Odium. I'd like to see Harmony take up Cultivations shard, as that would increase the creative power of Harmony. Maybe Odium has shattered Cultivation, but Odium itself has also been broken apart. There might be some less 'evil' combinations of Odium/Cultivation floating around in the form of Spren, as there are spren which are of Honor/Cultivation.
A combination of Honor/Odium might be very dangerous - if Cultivation were thrown in it might be much safer to handle.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Habibi posted:

What do you mean?

I thought this too, and it implies that Harmony is not 'balanced', as it is a combination of keeping things the same (Preservation) and destruction (Ruin). Cultivation/Ruin would more or less cancel out and make something very much like a dynamic Preservation.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Quantum Toast posted:

He's said that Roshar has "thirty magic systems... depending on how you count them", so it sounds like he's talking about 10 Surges x 3 Shards, with no combinations.

(And Sel has at least four kinds of magic (AonDor, Chayshan, whatever Dakhor monks use, and Forgery) with only two Shards, so it may not always be as simple as Scadrial either.)

Plus necromancy AKA Bloodsealing.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

syphon posted:

Regarding Jasnah, this was revealed early on, and then she actually referenced later while talking to Shallan. Apparently her spren's name is 'Ivory' and he's a little man in a tux who stands on her hand. I don't remember the details, but Shallan caught a glimpse of him once, and Jasnah later started telling Shallan about him, which upset him. Apparently he's still touchy about the Radiants' betrayal.

He also has a sword, doesn't he? I think he might be able to change size, but can't remember where I read that

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Errant Gin Monks posted:

Thanks a lot you guys for mentioning Warbreaker and it's tie in with WoR. I spent last night up until 2 am going through the avalanche of the last 80 pages of the book. You all suck.

On to Elantris I suppose.

I just read Elantris, got the last copy the library had which was falling apart in the spine. Then the annual library book sale was the other day, and I found TWO copies in much better condition being sold, which were ex-library copies. For some reason the library had decided to keep the falling apart one and sell the good ones. WTF, library?

Elantris is good, I was keeping my eyes open for Hoid/Wit in disguise and it turns out he was straight up named Hoid, and I was looking for something more subtle.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

HaitianDivorce posted:

Uhhh so I picked up Mistborn a while back and now that I'm about a quarter of the way through I've just got to ask... Does it get better?

I mean I like the premise (prophesy fucks everyone over and erstwhile hero decides to unleash ~thousand years of darkness~ so let's Ocean's 11 the poo poo out of him) but my god this is just annoying:


This after Kelsier spent a chapter running around like a Deus Ex protagonist murdering the poo poo out of about a dozen noblemen, and the prologue where he kills a noblemen and apparently twenty other dudes (though it's okay because he was ~super evil~ and a pedophile with all the subtlety of Baron Harkonnen.)

That's the issue, really: Sanderson doesn't seem very subtle. I am only a quarter of a way through one book, but so far the dude's laying it on pretty thick with how ~evil~ the bad guys are (though I did appreciate the line about "acceptable" skaa casualties in the coming rebellion) and who everyone is. Maybe I'm being set up for a twist another 200 pages down the line where everything I thought I knew was bullshit but do I have to be reminded every other page that Vin is sneaky (or at least she tries; so far she's been noticed by a Steel Inquisitor, suspected by her former boss of being a traitor and noticed by Kelsier snooping outside her door), that Kelsier likes murderin' dudes who may in some distant way shape or form contributed to the Final Empire, that the minor characters have some not particularly interesting trait associated with them (Yeden doesn't seem quite up to leading a glorious revolution, Breeze is kind of a ponce, Ham...'s name is Hammond, etc)?

By the Lord Ruler that would get old fast.

It has been a while since I read it, and I'll probably have to re-read it. Many of the minor characters get more depth/screentime by the second+third book. Vin stays on as the major character, but you get more of Sazed and co.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

The Puppy Bowl posted:

Just finished Elantris and it was certainly his first book. A lot of things just sort of happened and I don't know that Raoden's solving the puzzle of the shoad was ever really earned so much as it had to happen for plot progression. Overall I enjoyed, as I do all of Sanderson's work, but it definitely left something to be desired. Not to mention it was a difficult to get through the early parts of the book just based on all the nothing that was happening.

I'm a little agitated that didn't have a slightly more important role. Seriously, what was he even doing there? Unrelated but also curious, why did Vin blow off meeting Hoid in Hero of Ages? Sanderson says it was something Hoid did but he was only whistling.

What I don't quite get is that Odium shattered Devotion (the shard responsible for Elantris and the AonDor) ~10 years before the events of Elantris, which caused the Reod and the chasm opening up. How is it that Raoden solving the puzzle brings the AonDor back to full strength? Or was the Reod just a side effect of Odium killing the shardholder/shattering the shard and the magic never really was weakened?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

mossyfisk posted:

Odium smashes up the local shard way before the events of Elantris. The earthquake was unrelated.

Oh okay, I just assumed. I guess that also explains why the shardbearers don't play any part at all in the local mythology.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

NecroMonster posted:

Yeah Odium isn't just killing shardholders, he is smashing the very shards themselves into little bitty pieces, preventing them from ever being claimed in that fashion again.

Until Hoid finds the shardholder 'Mending' and goes around fixing them all up again.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Dravs posted:

Edit2: Hmm, is it possible that the lake that Rock refers to is Cultivations shardpool? We have seen shardpools in Elantris (the one they submerge Elantrians into if the pain becomes too much) and the Well of Ascension on Scadrial was preservations shardpool. This could be Cultivations shardpool that holds most of Cultivations power. Maybe she put her consciousness in it (as Preservation did) and what is left become the Nightmother?

Also, does the fact that Sazed holds 2 shards powers mean that he is now more powerful than the other shards?

Ugh, so many questions.

If its the purelake you're talking about, that has apparently got genuine magical fish in it, so I really wouldn't be surprised. It is also MASSIVE.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Dravs posted:

Well if the Highstorm is to Honour, what the mists were the Preservation, then possibly the Purelake belongs to another Shardholder? We know from Mistborn that if 2 shardholders come into contact it causes them immense pain.

Is that true of all shardholders, though? Or just Ruin/Preservation which are opposed? Would something completely different like Devotion react the same way to Preservation?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

treeboy posted:



Vasher and the other scholars used a *gently caress ton* of Breaths (tens of thousands iirc, like 50,000+) to create Nightblood on a planet that by comparison is incredibly poor (only one breath per person), and "awakened" it with a single simple command (Destroy Evil) which he single mindedly follows. The spren of Roshar were slowly, naturally, awakened by billions of observations and concepts over tens of thousands of years (perhaps with some cataclysm serving to speed up the process at some point) resulting in a nuanced and more 'complete' personality for the more intelligent spren. Nightblood, in contrast with Syl, Ivory, and other bonded spren, is an "artificial spren" with a basic "concept" or purpose of destroying evil. Nightblood *lacks* nuance, acting instead like a child, yet seemingly unable to grow beyond his original investiture unlike Rosharran spren who are constantly "fed" and "grown" by new people observing new situations and new experiences.


edit: some spelling grammar and a little clarification

Not really spoiler because its Warbreaker stuff but oh well -only 1000 breath was used to awaken Nightblood, but I believe the sage who did it (Sashara) had thousands more breath because of the innate awakening abilities a massive amount of breath gives you. Possibly not 50,000+ (That is how much Susebron has, and a large amount of that was accumulated after Vasher gave the first god king the breath). I don't think any of the original sages had as much breath as Susebron does.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Dravs posted:

Regarding that thread, RAFO means read and find out, and seems to be a bit of a meme on that forum, also the Sanderson fans are starting to refer to themselves as Sharders.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Its a thing that Brandon Sanderson says a lot at questions, effectively 'no comment'. I think he may have got it through Wheel of Time.

Fake Edit: It looks like it is something a few fantasy authors do.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
He should just channel all the Ruin energy to Ironeyes and let Ironeyes go around kicking rear end. I mean, he's already the mythological figure of death, why not Death and Ruin?

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Tunicate posted:

Well, I assume that's how he keeps having atium to keep the immortality loop going.

Hmm... would be interesting if he goes worldhopping. That'd be a cool question for any goon at a signing.

I think a lot of his atium is stuff he got before Harmony. After the end of book 3 he singlehandedly had the most Atium in the world. Still, he clearly talks to Harmony so I don't see why he wouldn't get an allowance of atium.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

JagGator posted:

Batteries are basically just two types of metal sharing electrons with each other. Perhaps having a coppermind instead of regular copper results in some sort of super battery.

Or maybe it's even simpler, like using a misting's super powers to pedal-power a machine or generator or something. "The allomantical revolution triggered rapid growth and prosperity, until it all came crashing down when we reached peak pewter."

Forget pewter, have any combination of 2 Steelshots/Lurchers pushing/pulling a big magnet through some coiled wires. Suddenly, electricity!
Could also be done with a iron feruchemist increasing/decreasing weight. (get heavy- push down piston. get light - piston goes up).

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Tunicate posted:

Or just have a... whatever metal is heat. Brass? Whatever. Use him as one side of a thermocouple.

Also, the feruchemists who can store breath and food are natures astronauts.


The iron would be pretty efficient, but I get the feeling they'd 'use' more stored weight than they gained as the piston goes up. But you know, in shifts it would be fine.

And also, as astronauts iron feruchemists would have some pretty weird/useful zero gravity interactions. Especially if they could also pull on metal to stop them flying away from the space station/ship.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014
I liked the bits where Pattern started experimenting with sarcasm.

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Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Tunicate posted:

The difference is Knight Radiant dies? Spren is sad, but gets over it. Knight Radiant breaks his oaths? Spren goes in a coma, but can come back if the guy reforms. Knight Radiant breaks his oath and dies? Well poo poo son, your spren's been lobotomized, no more knight radiants for that spren


Also, yeah, it's going to be something not immediately shown in the prologue.

Question
Was the Almighty still alive when the Heralds packed it in, and did the Radiants pack it in in direct response to what the Heralds did?

Brandon Sanderson
The Radiants did NOT abandon their post as a response to the Heralds. The Radiants abandoned it for some other reason which will become evident eventually. The Almighty was still around when the Heralds did their thing.


So Honor was still alive, but died sometime before now and after the last desolation. If the Heralds actually have some connection to Odium (they hang out on Braize, so maybe the connection he has to them is stronger than they thought), maybe their abandoning the Oathpact weakened Honor and allowed Odium to kill him. The shards of Odium are still present as those big evil spren that cause the Thrill and Death Rattles.

I hope that in the next few books we see some character development for Nightblood. He really wants to destroy some evil, and has very little idea of what evil actually is. I think he needs a bit of reprogramming/memory expansion/experience and I really hope he gets that through the inevitable exposure to parts of Honor/Odium/Cultivation.

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