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Never read any Sanderson, decided to just read through from the start. I just finished Elantris today. I was skeptical about whether I should read it or just skip to Mistborn, considering people say it's a bit rougher. I didn't want to sour myself on his weakest work, but I'm glad I read it. It was by no means a 5 Star book, but it was a fast read, and had enough interesting stuff to make me glad I read it. Sure, 2 out of 3 of the characters basically start as super awesome amazing people and never change, and 2/3 of the supporting characters have some late-novel revelation about their past which became a bit tired after a while, and the frantic pace of the end of the book really was a little too drawn out (the quick shifting POV's went on a little too long, it got a bit dizzying by the end) but there were some genuinely cool ideas regarding Elantris itself. Also, I really liked Galladon a lot. Also Hrathen, considering he was the only dude that really grew and learned anything about himself. I have to say, my favorite part of the book was probably when Galladon was reflecting on how Raoden had "cursed" him with optimism, that he found he could not shake away even in this grimmest of times with Raoden seemingly dead as he carried him to the mountain pool, no matter what his rational pessimistic mind told him. The image of his hope as a rat scurrying away in the corner that he tried to grab onto was great, and it was actually really affecting seeing how Raoden had changed him. That was probably the best written part of the book for me, and it was only a little page and half interlude during the end shitstorm. Damo fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 01:14
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After finishing Elantris, I've now started on Mistborn and I'm halfway through. It's all right so far, I'm hoping by the end of the novel it gets better because right now I'm kinda wishing it wasn't a trilogy. Something good better happen by the end to make me want to read 2 more novels. Kelsier is interesting enough (for a Sanderson paper-thin character), Vin's whole "everyone will betray me" thing, Reen Reen it rhymes with Ween, and her mouse like street urchin personality was grating until she settles down a bit, thank goodness, a few hundred pages in. My point is the characters are sure as hell not going to leave me wanting more, so I really hope some crazy poo poo goes down soon. The whole post-apocolyptic world/Lord Ruler/Inquisitor stuff is interesting though, so that's kept me going more than the characters or even the immediate storyline. It also doesn't help that someone "raises an eyebrow" like 5 times a goddamn page. Holy poo poo! How did Sanderson or his editor not notice how unbelievably overused that phrase is? I'm a pretty hardened reader, as in, I'm not as sensitive to bad prose (I do read a lot of Sci-Fi/Fantasy after all), but holy poo poo I can't loving take the raising an eyebrow thing anymore and I'm only on page 340 or something. People even raise their eyebrow in situations where that isn't even a sensible response to what they just heard. I think I'm starting to realize why this dude can pump out as much work as fast as he does. "He/she snorted" and "rolled his eyes" are getting on my nerves as well, though not as much. I'm not a writer, but man if I was writing "raised an eyebrow" 5 times a page in my story I think I would notice it and start changing it up. Someone please tell me people stop raising eyebrows as much in the 2nd/3rd book. And in future Sanderson novels. On a lighter note, I can't help but think of Breeze as Mark Gatiss' Mycroft. Which has made me loving love that character. Damo fucked around with this message at 10:14 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 06:12
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Tahirovic posted:I kinda lack other things to read Man, sometimes I wish my interests were less diverse so I could even begin to be in that situation.
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May 9, 2014 11:02
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I did it. I made it through Mistborn: Well of Ascension. gently caress, that wasn't exactly the greatest book ever. Really hope Book 3 makes this all have been worth it. As it is, I'm almost of the opinion that I would have been fine without ever having read this series. I also really hope this dude upped his game seriously for the Stormlight Archive novels, because gently caress if I can imagine reading a 1200 page book of Sanderson right now. I'm being a bit unfairly harsh right now. I don't hate the guy's writing or anything, but I really need Hero of Ages to kick rear end, real bad. Damo fucked around with this message at 08:02 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 07:57
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Khizan posted:It doesn't, you would have been. That series went downhill after the first book and fast. Well, gently caress. I gotta finish it now though, no choice. At least book 3 is slightly shorter than book 2...
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May 16, 2014 08:54
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Only about 100 pages left in Mistborn 3, thank goodness. Hero of Ages is at least significantly more entertaining than Well of Ascension... but man I've just about had it with reading about a 100 pound 16-21 year old girl with barely any practical training in fighting or martial arts somehow kicking the asses of 12 foot tall monsters and other magic wizards (often times with even more magic wizard powers and physical strength/training than her) 3 times her size like it's nothing. I like to think of myself as equal-opportunity when it comes to protagonists sexes, and age to a lesser extent, as they relate to their power/physical ability, but god drat Vin should seriously be dead 1000x over by now. It's some serious straining on my imagination to apply to her the sheer level of power and fighting talent Sanderson gives her. I mean, she's a lithe, stealthy 100-pound 16 year old thief who avoids conflict at the start of the book, but then a year or two later she is loving Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Arnold from Predator, the Predator from Predator, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Ser Gregor Clegane, and Gandalf the White all rolled up into one. I mean come on man, how far can being a Mistborn really take you? Sanderson himself makes the point a few times in the novel that being a Mistborn doesn't immediately make you a badass fighter with no effort, yet he continually breaks this rule with Vin. Again, she's a freakin' 100 pound 18 year old girl thief who grew up avoiding conflict, and with no fighting experience or training whatsoever to start out with Sanderson, get a grip, she could not possibly be as powerful talented in fighting as you make her out to be, Mistborn or not. Also, I'm very excited to move on a read a book where every character doesn't "raise an eyebrow" in response to literally every single external stimuli, ever. Good christ Sanderson, there's overusing phrases, then there is "raising an eyebrow" levels of overusing phrases. I've read a lot of novels in my life but this is something I have never seen the like of before. It's incomprehensibly overused to to point where it's so utterly distracting reading it over and over again that every time I can't help but wonder how terribly inept his editor must have been to not notice that, or worse, to let that slide. I also recall someone who "inwardly raised their eyebrow", I mean, really? There are other ways to express that reaction dude, by the 500th time you wrote that didn't you think to maybe change it up? Seriously, everyone in the Mistborn world must have utterly jacked eyebrow muscles from the constant exercise they get. And don't even get me started on people "rolling their eyes"... Speaking of overusing phrases, the other huge one is "character X smiled" as a sort of verbal crutch during battle scenes. Every single time there is a situation remotely like "bad guy has a plan/strategy that good guy has prepared for/seen through unbeknownst to bad guy", or just a situation where a character needs to express any form of physical reaction to something during battle, you will have "charactrer x smiled" as a transitory sentence, which is usually given its own line break to emphasize it which only exacerbates the issue. This would have been a non-issue had he only done it with Kelsier considering we learn something about his character with regards to his feelings about smiling and laughter in the face of despair/the Lord Ruler. It actually would have been a good method of characterization and a good way of giving depth to his personality. However, Sanderson has literally every loving character do the "character x smiled" thing every 5 seconds during every fight scene. From Vin to even Marsh, who really, shouldn't be smiling considering he is a loving inquisitor for christ's sake. I get that inquisitors/ruin take a sadistic joy in being evil and destructive, but it would have been much cooler and befitting if they didn't smile all the time. Not to mention it at least just would have been one less character overusing the phrase. The thing that really makes the smiling thing turn from simple overuse or bad writing into a terrible misstep in my eyes is how it is such a missed opportunity in creating character depth and personality, something that Sanderson is nearly incapable of. It really highlights his most glaring weakness as a writer, his bad characterization. Had he made Kelsier the only one who incessantly smiles during battles, it would have been a good bit of characterization and insight into his personality that actually fits and makes sense for him to do. But then he goes to run it into the ground through the 3 books in "eyebrow raising" fashion, to the point where smiling during battle is apparently something all Allomancers do non-stop. What could have been a great method of giving Kelsier depth became a really annoying overused verbal crutch that completely lost all meaning. I swear, from what Sanderson has written, if you were to witness an Allomantic battle in real life, it would be a bunch of people smiling over and over again like disturbed mentally ill lunatics bathed in blood. Regarding characteriztion, I think it's funny how in the Mistborn annotations he mentions how he didn't have the space and time in the books to give depth to all his characters. He bemoans the lack of depth given to Ham, Clubs, Dockson -- basically everyone besides Kelsier/Vin/Elend/Sazed, saying how there just wasn't enough time. I think it's hilarious given that this is a nearly 2000 page long novel and he couldn't manage to give depth to all like, 5 or 6 of his main characters. I don't think space is the issue dude, it's your own lack of ability. I hate to compare him to someone like GRRM given that characterization is his strength, but GRRM manages to give personality to nearly all of his characters to the point that you really feel like you know them well, even if that character is a minor side-side-side-side character who only appears for a couple of pages. Again, it's not a matter of page count, it's what you do with the pages you have -- and I'm pretty sure that 2000 pages is more than long enough to have been able to make Ham, Dockson, Clubs more deep than paper thin. Perhaps if he would stop with the constant pages-long internal monologues given to Vin/Elend which basically repeat themselves over, and over, and over again? Man, the amount of internal monologues in these books given to them is bonkers considering each one is just an exact repetition of the emotions expressed in all the previous monologues. You could seemingly fill a whole book with just internal monologues of Vin/Elend wondering if the are good enough to deserve their roles / each other. If he would have taken out a few of those perhaps there would have been space to make Ham, Clubs, Dox, etc. all more than paper-thin. One last thing that is a huge let down in Hero of Ages is how a shitload of long-standing questions regarding the world of Mistborn were answered away in the pre-chapter logbook blurbs. I wouldn't have minded some stuff answered there, but almost everything was explained away first in those chapter blurbs, and I consider it a giant missed opportunity and really disappointing he wasn't able to weave these revelations into the story proper. It would have been much better, and much more interesting to see our characters react to the knowledge at the same time that we discover it. OK, reading all this makes it sound like I hated the series, I really didn't. It just has some god-awful and incredibly obvious writing faults that are baffling in how they made it past him and and his editor. Also, really weak characters and a complete lack of a decent antagonist. What it does have though, is a fascinating world (even if in normal Sanderson fashion the world seems like it's compressed and super tiny without much scope. He really likes "single big city with forgettable stuff around it" settings it seems), and a fantastic magic system. He also has a knack for setting up interesting mysteries you can't wait to figure out the meaning behind. I'd say the series has been a solid all right to good. Not great, not bad, but all right. I still don't know if I'm glad I spent the time reading it. The last 100 pages being solid gold could help some, but the journey there is over, and it has been decidedly "meh." I honestly think Elantris was better written than Mistborn was, which seems to be opposite of the consensus. I didn't have anywhere near this kind of reaction to his writing style in that book. Here's to hoping that Warbreaker is a step up, and here's to really hoping that Way of Kings/Words of Radiance is a 1000 foot tall step up from Mistborn, because I'm really intrigued by the Stormlight Archive and I really want to love it, not just be OK with it like I was with Mistborn. I'm excited by the effort he seemingly has put into The Stormlight Archives by skimming through my copy of Way of Kings, what with the mass amounts of illustrations and obvious love he put into the series thus far. Damo fucked around with this message at 13:58 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 11:08
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I understand how you would think I hate the books after the  of complaint that comprised of 90% of my post, but yeah, I didn't hate the books as you discovered. There are some great ideas and legitimately fun stuff in these novels, enough to keep me going, and even enough to keep me wanting to read more Sanderson, especially compared to the complete poo poo fantasy out there that makes Sanderson seem like the God of fantasy. It's just that the poor stuff is so blatantly bad and also blatantly apparent that I can't believe they weren't noticed in the first draft and addressed. And they really bring down what is otherwise a pretty entertaining yarn. Also, as usual for internet commentary I guess it's just easier to write a bunch of about what I didn't like versus what I did. Guilty as charged. Also, even if I legitimately didn't like the books, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't under any circumstances finish the series. I haven't walked out of every movie I kind of disliked, or even really disliked. Just the ones I really loving hated. Same with books, it's got to be a really special case of bad for me to not want to give it a fair shake and finish it. I don't put down every book that isn't a 5 star experience beginning to end.
Damo fucked around with this message at 11:31 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 11:26
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Khizan posted:And I facepalmed at that bit towards the start of Book II or so where Sazed finds this ancient metal plaque carved with knowledge and it outright says "Dudes, your enemy-thing can and will gently caress with everything that's written down, unless that poo poo is written down in metal. Don't trust anything that's not written down in metal" and Sazed goes "Oh ho! That is interesting! Time to make a paper copy of this! That can't turn out badly!" To be fair, you are kind of mixing up events here. At the beginning of the book Sazed makes a rubbing of the steel plate in the Convetical of Saren, true, but that was before he knew about Ruin's capabilities regarding manipulating written stuff. Marsh kind of hustles him out of these before he has a chance to finish rubbing the entire metal plate, and he only discovers the last bit that explicitly says and explains why that "only stuff written in steel is safe" when he comes back to the Conventical at the end of the book and reads the part of the plate he didn't realize he missed the first time. Which is also after he witnessed this capability of Ruin first hand when something (Ruin, as you discover with Sazed) kept snipping pieces off of / changing Sazed's and Tindwyl's notes on the prophecies regarding the Hero of Ages. At least, I'm pretty sure that' the way it went down. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. Damo fucked around with this message at 14:09 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 14:03
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Just finished Alloy of Law. It was great, easily my favorite Sanderson yet. I wouldn't say his prose has improved a ton compared to Elantris/Mistborn, but he sure has cut out of lot of the annoying issues I had with previous books. Looking forward to the next Wax and Wayne book, any word on when to expect it? Can't decide if I want to read Warbreaker next, or just move on to Way of Kings.
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Jun 1, 2014 11:36
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Speaking of The Emperor's Soul, I decided to crack it out in a couple hours before I read Warbreaker (which I'm in the middle of now). I've got to say, it was pretty dang good. The final page was one of the very few moments that Sanderson actually sort of...moved me. I can only rememeber that happening one time in Elantris Galldon reflecting on how Raoden changed him and once or twice in Mistborn, though I can't remember exactly where in those books anymore. Point is, Sanderson is a lot of fun in general, but it's nice to see he's capable of really hitting the mark emotionally sometimes. I only hope that ability continues to grow. Warbreaker so far is....well, kind of dull. I'm only about 200 pages in though. The magic system seems pretty dull, most of the characters aren't very interesting either, and the plot doesn't seem to really be going anywhere. The world feels less interesting than his other work. I'll certainley finish it, knowing how well his books can wrap up, however it's kind of a slog to get through right now, except the Lightsong parts, as well was the God-King stuff. Vasher is also somewhat interesting given that hes a total mystery of motivations at the moment, I guess. Anyway, maybe I'm just looking forward to finally finishing all his pre-stormlight works so I can finally sink my teeth into WoK so that's why I cant really get invested in Warbreaker. Who knows. Damo fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 06:15
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Finished Warbreaker. Spoilers ahead. Meh. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. I liked Lightsong a lot as a character, and even found most of his "humor" tolerable. I mean, I never laughed at his jokes and puns, but neither did I really groan at them too badly, save a couple of times (the one about the privy was just stupid as hell). I felt his ultimate fate was a little bit of a let down as well. I mean, it made sense, but it also was disappointing that he basically was just around to be a heal-bot at the right moment to the right person. I really like the concept of normal people returning as gods, and wished he would have explored it a bit more through Lightsong. It seemed like all of the book was dedicated to breaking the war, which in the end felt really secondary to the conflict between Vasher/Denth, and the interesting aspects of Hallardren religion. I mean, the whole war was averted like in the last couple of pages almost as an afterthought. So the whole book was in service of a plot that in the end felt like it really fell flat. I would have much more enjoyed a story more focused on the Gods of Hallardren and the implications of worshiping people who come back to life, as opposed to some war against a northern country you meet for all of like 2 pages in the beginning. I also think that he really held way too much poo poo back and left too much poo poo unexplained for a possible 2nd novel which he might never get to. Also Awakening as a magic is easily the weakest system BS has come up with so far. I can see why the book was free. Anyway, now that I've read everything BS has wrote other than his YA stuff, I'm ready for the Stormlight books, so I'm excited for that. I might take a break for a bit before reading them though, as going through Elantris/Mistborn/Alloy/Emperor's Soul/Warbreaker makes me feel like I should take a break from Sanderson for a bit, lest I get burnt out. I'm definitely all out of patience for plucky against-the-grain princess characters. Good god man, he needs to lay off that character archetype for a bit. Also people raising their eyebrows, though thankfully he's curbed that a bit since Mistborn. Odd that my favorite book from him, a giant book writer, was Alloy of Law. I think it's mostly because the pacing wasn't so drawn out. He really likes characters sitting around doing nothing and thinking about their situation over and over. I know he says in his annotations he likes that type of stuff, but I think that it often falls into the realm of beating you over the head with poo poo out you could figure out about the character on your own, which ruins the pacing of his books. Damo fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 22:40
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Considering the book is like, 5+ years old (and free) and this is the Brandon Sanderson thread in which it has already been argued to death that you shouldn't have to spoiler posts for books over like a year old, I thought it would be easier to just warn someone to skip my post instead of having to [spoiler] a dozen separate parts of my post. At least I warned for spoilers at the top, which apparently according to the forum rules I didn't even have to do. edit: Here's the related rule in the Book Barn's rules thread, since you obviously aren't familiar with it. quote:4) Spoiler Policy: For most threads, please use spoiler tags for any major plot events no matter how old the book is, unless it's common knowledge (Romeo and Juliet kill themselves?!?) or if you're in a discussion thread for people who have read that specific author or book. If you *are* in a discussion thread for a specific author, book, or series, use spoiler tags for anything that's been out less than about six months to a year. So if we followed what you are saying, literally every page of this thread would look like a redacted CIA document. Not exactly good for discussion. Damo fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 23:19
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I just got into Sanderson a couple months ago and read Elantris, Mistborn trilogy, Alloy of Law, Emperor's Soul, and Warbreaker so far, and I have to say Alloy of Law was by far my favorite. To be fair, I doubt that would have been the case had I not read the original Mistborn books. Alloy of Law is awesome. I wish it had a bit more of a conclusion, but I'll forgive that since it seems like the 2nd book is only a year or less away. I'm still looking forward to tackling Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, however I've taken a little break to read some Discworld to cleanse my pallet a bit because I didn't want to OD on Sanderson and spoil my enjoyment of what is supposed to be his best work. I've had the first few Discworld books on my shelf for like, 12 years and I've finally dived in and read Colour of Magic and I'm midway through The Light Fantastic and I'm kicking myself for having taken this long to read this series. It's been a long time since I've laughed out loud at a book. It's doing a great job to get my mind out of Sanderson land for a while. Damo fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 02:56
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Clockwork Gadget posted:Terry Pratchett is a good dude and it's sad as hell that he won't be with us for much longer. Yeah it's very sad for anyone to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's, it's one of the most terrible afflictions. However to happen to a writer with a mind like who has created a world like he has, is doubly awful and makes you lose faith in the universe. Also, being diagnosed with it before he was even 60 years old is absolutely the most hosed up part. Too goddamn young.
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Jun 13, 2014 06:42
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Yeah it's good to hear that it's only affected his physical/motor skills mostly, and apparently he has trouble reading as well, which I suppose is part of that. Since his cognitive function seems Ok, he's apparently able to dictate his writing to an assistant or computer software and just skip the typing part, luckily. He's lasted a lot longer than anyone probably thought so here's to hoping he has a decent number of years yet.
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Jun 13, 2014 06:50
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After reading all other Sanderson cosmere books in order of publication, I've finally started Way of Kings. Only about 70 pages in but I already have to say wow has his prose improved dramatically this book. I mean, he almost reads like a different author. It's fantastic. I don't even think a single eyebrow has been raised yet! As far as the story goes, it's interesting so far. Hard to follow some stuff a bit what with all the weird names and places and stuff referenced but not explained yet, but it's expected given it's the first hundred pages of an epic fantasy. I'm enjoying it. It really seems like he's got his poo poo together with this story.
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Jul 11, 2014 06:26
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Well the prologue is poo poo but I knew that going in from the hundreds of people who have commented on it, made fun of the whole "lashing" tutorial poo poo. It's super short so I just ignored it's shittiness. I'm more referring to the stuff after that when I say his writing has improved. Also consider I'm not saying his writing is great, it's more that it's not the utter poo poo I experienced in Elantris/Mistborn/Warbreaker. Like, it's become passably decent now is what I meant. Especially now that people aren't raising their eyebrows as much as Teal'c from Stargate SG-1. Damo fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 02:21
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Karnegal posted:something that Sanderson does a lot in his books which has always felt sloppy to me. He likes to make characters have significant changes in personality, but the changes have always occurred before we meet them. This is probably, aside from smaller complaints like the epic levels of eyebrow raising and eye rolling, the single thing that bugs me the most about Sanderson's writing. And you're right, it crops up in nearly every single book. I agree with you -- it's pretty frustrating and repetitive to have so many characters you are always told "used to be so X and now are Y" but you never see them transition from X to Y. Or they are just flat out seem to have never BEEN X in the first place and it's hard to believe it but Sanderson keeps ramming it home that they used to be so-and-so. Also, I somewhat agree with the lack of swearing being dumb, however I don't really particularly care about using swear words in particular -- it's just the whole glean of cleanliness his novels tend to have in general that is jarring to me. A tiny portion of the time it is refreshing, but most of the time it really makes the world feel sterile in some ways. And to the people who use the justification that "well in fantasy land they wouldn't have the word 'gently caress'", well, I spotted people eating Pork and Chicken in Way of Kings. Wouldn't they also not have Pork and Chicken on a planet that seems to be comprised of mostly crustacean like creatures? Or, if they did have Pigs and Chickens, would they call them Pigs and Chickens and not some fantasy word? This type of thing is a rabbit hole an author shouldn't bother going down, because bottom line, we are in our world reading a book in our language, and some liberties must always be taken to make the book sound natural and readable to us. Having a character say gently caress or poo poo or rear end here and there wouldn't take me out of the book, because I understand this. I don't mind the fantasy land made up word cursing though, but some crazy moments could use some real-world style anger in their tone. Damo fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 02:53
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Riftling posted:Also, has he said anything about a Warbreaker sequel, since that story is left open-ended? Personally I hope he never wastes his time writing a sequel to Warbreaker. The story was boring, the magic system dull and weak (except for like, a couple of people who can harness it with some serious power) and the characters uninteresting. The world itself was boring and underdeveloped and felt small as heck. It was basically the one main city and the one smaller country of "rebels" to the north, and that's it. Also, way too much "everyone is secretly those famous people from historical events long ago" poo poo going on, even compared the Elantris. Oddly enough, for someone who dislikes the book, I seemed to light Lightsong a lot more than most. He was my favorite character of the bunch. I'd much rather him power through Stormlight and write the Mistborn sequels in between.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:11
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So, I finished Way of Kings and I've started Words of Radiance. I have some questions. Does WoR like heavily get into the Shadesmar/Heralds/Radiants/Worldhoppers/Shardholders (like, the 16 epic shards not swords)/Cosmere and poo poo like that? Because I keep seeing so much info around on Wikis and discussion forums about all that stuff and it's not touched upon very much in WoK. But everywhere I look people are talking about "this guy is a herald, that guy is a worldhopper" and stuff like that, and after reading WoK I have no idea where people are getting this from. Is this all explained in WoR? For example, in the prologue of WoK and WoR, people have pointed out how so and so person or persons are "obviously" Heralds in disguise. How in the hell are people figuring that out? Or the whole idea of "worldhopping?" I mean, I understand the concept of it and what it means, but how did people figure that out? Will I learn about this stuff in WoR or is this all stuff people have gleaned from interviews with Sanderson and other non-book stuff?
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Aug 6, 2014 07:13
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Well, I mean I am a pretty big fan, I've read all of his Cosmere books. I'm left wondering how people figure this poo poo out, because I'm a pretty focused reader and it seems like I'm missing a bunch of poo poo other people aren't. Even if it's not important to the immediate plot, the background stuff interests me and I want to know how people are figuring out secret heralds and poo poo like that.
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Aug 6, 2014 07:29
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Ok cool thanks. One other thing that's bugging me, not that it's important, is the whole Alethi women's (or is it not just Alethi women, but all Vorin women?) Safehand/Freehand stuff. Is this explained in WoR? Or is the whole point just that fantasy land women's propriety includes hiding their left hand (is it always the left, for that matter?) after puberty, and there's no real rhyme or reason to it anymore than real world women shaving hair off certain parts their body and other stuff like that? Is it just What They Do, and there is no practical reason? When it first appeared in the beginning of WoK I assumed there was some weird Sanderson Magic reason for it, but it was never explained, and the more the story went on the more I realized it can't be a magic reason because no one really does magic. At least save a very, very small portion of special people. Then, I finished WoK and was left confused by it not being explained at all. Seemed like a weird thing to constantly point out most every time a woman character is shown but never to explain it. Like, what's the point of it's significance and omnipresence in being described if there's nothing behind it past fantasy land women's propriety? I do get a kick of how Alethi men get all flustered, horny, and feel naughty at the sight or mere thought of an uncovered Safehand. So funny. Damo fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 08:00
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Grundulum posted:Yeah, and it's pretty weird how excited American men get at the thought of seeing uncovered mammary glands. I mean, what's up with that? Some women even inject or implant inorganic material into theirs to make them more "attractive", however that is supposed to work. Um, I think you completely missed my meaning by that comment. I wasn't saying or implying that men in Roshar getting aroused from an uncovered Safehand is stupid writing or a stupid idea from Sanderson, or whatever you interpreted it as. I genuinely enjoyed it in the exact same way you did. It's a funny little twist on what is and isn't considered appropriate or whatever. I wasn't making GBS threads on it, I legitimately thought it was interesting and I got a kick out of it. Like you said, it's just a body part that in real world customs isn't sexualized, but in Roshar it is (for reason I was trying to find out, not that there needs to be one), so it's only natural that an Alethi man would react like that. I only brought up the purpose behind hiding the Safehand because I am just curious if there is some meaning behind that I missed, or that is going to be explained in WoR, other than what I mentioned previously -- that is, it just being worldbuilding stuff around Alethi customs, and a little fantasy twist on what is considered adhering to propriety for women in Roshar. I thought maybe there is some other reason for it past it being fantasyland woman's propriety that I might have missed. Even if there isn't a reason beyond worldbuilding with regards to customs, that's fine by me as well. Exploring stuff like that is one of the things that makes Fantasy books what they are. So, yeah. Don't trip, friend. Damo fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 09:17
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Grundulum posted:As for the flustered nature of Alethi men, I think it's just Sanderson's squeamishness about sex making itself known. This got me thinking about Sanderson and how he writes sex stuff and cursing. I know, it's a tired topic, but I've never chimed in personally. Feel free to skip it if you don't care. Sex in Fantasy books. Just the phrase brings up terrible memories. Overall, Sanderson's prudish nature with Sex is honestly one of the nicer things with his writing. A nice break from the norm, and it spares us from some possibly disgusting, cringeworthy, overlong poo poo. Lord knows we've had enough descriptions of manhoods glistening wetly and other disgusting stuff thanks to GRRM and other fantasy authors. Another nice benefit is that you can feel less reluctant to recommend it to friends and family, which is nice. B.W. Sanderson -- A family company!. He could be a bit more realistic about how he treats sex. Sex is a thing that happens. Most everyone does it (and did it throughout history) and it isn't a bad thing. Well, it can be, in various ways, but you know. Some people have sex a lot, just because it's fun. Some people have sex before marriage as well. It's unfortunate how Brandon seems so reluctant to have characters who view sex in these ways because of his own personal feelings and opinions. It's not that a character's sex life always is super important. It's an example of his personal morals winning over his writing. Doing that can limit so much possibility if it expends past sex. As a writer, don't you kind of have to write about people with different morals than you? This is something which Sanderson (and all writers) obviously does considering he's written his fair share of murderous psychopaths. But the buck stop at sex. He'll make Vin and Elend wait until their wedding night because that's what he'd do. I don't see why being open with writing about people with deplorable motives and opinions about anything but sex is fine, but throw sex in there and we've got a problem. In his writing he could also seem less afraid and reluctant to say that someone have had sex, or are having sex. As it is now, the few times he implies sex going on it's so drat vague and subtle that he might as well not mention it. It's can be very YA-ish (to be fair, though, take out the constant decapitations and the other most extreme violence, and Mistborn basically is a YA book). He could do with describing sex more naturally, and less like parents trying to talk about it in innuendo while their children are listening. Or writing a character who's seems so reluctant and uncomfortable with the topic you can sense how badly they want to change the subject. Lastly, there is the (lack of real-world) cursing. I like the in-world cursing, like storm this or storming that. I dig that cursing workaround, but only when the writer(s) come up with a word that isn't lovely. Now, I know that using real world curses can contrast with a fantasy writer's vision for their book's world. So I'm in the minority here probably, but I really wish he'd throw in some more serious real world curses here and there. Just at really tense or dramatic moments sparingly. For me, a well placed curse from a character who barely or never cursed in the past can add a lot to an epic situation. And while Storm this and that is cool, it doesn't have the real world history, connotation, and experience a person has with the word being used that adds an instant understanding of the feelings in that moment. So I'm for some real world cursing, used sparingly and appropriately when it fits the situation and character. Maybe don't use gently caress, though. I think gently caress can easily be overused and take you out of the story quicker than other curse words. So gently caress gently caress, and use poo poo, rear end in a top hat, bitch, or whatever instead. My main reasoning behind the cursing is that almost EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET curses on some level. Especially soldiers fighting a war! And the rest of the people probably would curse if you put enough pressure/fear/anger/stress/annoyance/etc on them. Cursing seems natural to human nature. People sometimes really need some sort of inappropriate, intense, and vulgar language to express themselves more fully. And while it is fantasy land, these are still human beings he writes about on some level. All this considered, for me, it can add a lot to moments that are already intense and epic. Most fantasy book authors use tons of real world words/nouns/names/whatever, as a result of them not wanting to rename a chicken something else, then constantly having to remind you that a chicken is now called a gibbylap, all of which adds nothing to the story. So as we know, yes, a different fantasy world would have different names for everything. Especially considering their whole basis of language would be different. So writers have to take liberties, calling a chicken a chicken. So, adding some real world curse words into the mix really makes a difference in immersion to the story, for me. One final thought. To be fair, it's impossible for any of us to know what exactly motivates his decisions. Maybe it's his personal morals, maybe he's just writing what he considers the best he can for his story. Maybe a mix. However, regarding Vin and Elend, in the annotations he basically admits making them wait for marriage because of his personal morals. So there's that. Sorry for the length of the post. tldr A bunch of stupid don't bother.
Damo fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 10:58
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I agree. It seems like everyone knows all this poo poo about the Stormlight world that leaves me wondering where the gently caress they got it from. I'm just hoping eventually he'll spell it out in the books so I don't need to do mad research on wiki's and poo poo to learn about that stuff. And I'm not talking about the basic poo poo like Hoid and the Cosmere and whatnot.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:16
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I just finished WoR. Holy loving poo poo the end of that book. I am so goddamn hyped for the next book. Dalinar owns so hard, and now he's bonded the loving Stormfather.As if he couldn't get any more bad rear end. No more Sanderson left to read =( Read all the Cosmere books. Time to play the waiting game...
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Aug 25, 2014 23:55
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Wow, thanks for the info. While I think it's really cool that he gives out the unpublished stuff, I don't think I'm hardcore enough to read it. Especially considering I didn't even much like some of the published stuff (mainly just Warbreaker, although I'm glad I read it for the connections to WoR). I think your little summaries are more than enough. Also, I don't think this has been mentioned in the thread -- it seems Brandon has changed the order of what he's working on. He's committed to write Shadows of Self (Alloy #2) before Stormlight 3 now, so it looks like Stormlight 3 is likely a Mid 2016 release at best. Which sucks, but at least we'll have Alloy of Law #2 to tide us over....for the day that it takes to finish it =( Think I'll start the First Law trilogy to keep me busy for a while.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:28
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That quote reminded me how awesome Dalinar is. Man the next book needs to come out. I laugh at TV show people who complain about having to wait a year between seasons. Try reading series novels and knowing you are going to be like 25 years older before it finishes.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:43
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Yeah, seriously, all this stuff about some words being too "real world" is really stupid. Especially when there are so many other legitimate things to complain about Sanderson's books. I mean, I love the guy, but his occasional use of awesome or whatever is hardly the worst issue he has as a writer.
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Nov 3, 2014 03:06
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Man I only just finished WoR a few months ago but seemed to have forgotten like 90% of the book. So much poo poo happens. I'm definitely gonna be lost regarding where the story stands by the time the next book comes out.
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Nov 23, 2014 09:04
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Yeah, book one is the best. I didn't necessarily hate book 2 and 3, but the one thing that did really hurt them besides the plodding pace of book 2 is the fact that there was not a single character left that was nearly as interesting as Kelsier. As it is, I'm only really glad I read them to have them under my belt as another cosmere book and also in preperation for Alloy of Law (which I liked a ton better) and the future books in the series.
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Nov 27, 2014 04:53
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Eric the Mauve posted:I don't think that's really true. I think the main problems in Well of Ascension are two: Elend is horribly uninteresting and way too much time is spent on him; and Zane doesn't work either as a villain or as a tempter. Vin's kinda-sorta-attraction to him doesn't work, is at no point believable, and her "development" leaves her at the end of the book basically right where we thought she was at the end of the previous book. Well, it seems like you are kind of agreeing with me. You basically just said the three main characters are bad/boring/undeveloped in Book 2. Regarding the plot, I just said it was plodding, not that nothing happens. There is a good deal of tension in the situation the characters are in, I just find that it's drawn out too long with not enough payoff by the end of the book. Book 3 was better than 2, just not as good as book 1. Overall yeah it's a decent-good series, well worth reading if you like Sanderson. It's flawed, but considering how poo poo most fantasy books are, the flaws are really tame in comparison to some of the poo poo out there. I'd still recommend them to most people, if only to prepare themselves for the future series in the Mistborn world. I mean, Alloy of Law was great, and with how Sanderson's writing just consistently improves, can you imagine how awesome Shadows of Self and the two present day/future Mistborn trilogies are going to be? So excited for Shadows of Self. I liked Alloy of Law so much more than Mistborn. One of my favorite things about it was that no one is a full Mistborn anymore. I found that really refreshing as it leaves things a bit more grounded and allows for cool gunfights and poo poo with a bit of magic thrown in, but without anyone being just Godlike and untouchable flying through the air owning everyone with no effort. Plus Wax and Wayne are just fun and likable.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:40
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Sanderson wrote the story for it back in 2012, at least. It's likely never coming out, and if it does it will suck anyway. Nothing to get excited about.
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Dec 27, 2014 05:25
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So, we're getting 2 Wax and Wayne books this year, right? I know Sanderson said he wrote two, I wonder if they are going to be released one shortly after the other. I can't wait. The Mistborn trilogy was all right, but I'm mostly glad I read it as general Cosmere background, and also preparation for the Alloy of Law / Future Mistborn world books. I liked Alloy of Law so, so much more than any of the Mistborn books.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:18
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Lightsong was easily the best thing about an otherwise entirely forgettable work. I guess Vasher/Nightblood was pretty cool too, and extra so in hindsight because of their appearance in Stormlight. The world and story of Warbreaker were weak as hell though.
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Feb 11, 2015 00:33
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It's really, really not as complicated as that looks. Like, if you can handle the idea that "Book 1 takes place here, Book 2 takes place there, Book 3 takes place at book 1's place again but at the same time as book 2 , book 5 is before everything" and poo poo like that it's not exactly difficult to comprehend. Also the stuff on the very left and right (ICE and B/KB books) could be completely eliminated as it isn't main series stuff anyway.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:29
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