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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Although I think the Mistborn trilogy would only be ruined when it gets tied into the Shard-verse proper (and the sequel trilogies). So I'm eager to find out how he's going to prove me wrong.

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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

I think it's mentioned that the shardarmor seemed to used to glow. Perhaps the highstorms started happening after the armor stopped glowing. In other words, the shardarmors used to contain all the magical energy the highstorms now imbue into gems.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Che Delilas posted:

I doubt that something as mundane as armor contained all the power that highstorms represent, at least not from an author like Sanderson. Divinity is a big theme with him and having a major source of the world's magic not somehow related to the gods seems unlikely. Plus we already have the Radiants presumably going through some sort of hell/rebirth cycle, which makes me think their power doesn't just coincidentally come from armor. More likely that whatever event or circumstance gave rise to the highstorms also affected the armor.

But the thing is, Sanderson's lower-level gods are generally just ascended mortals who've been bestowed powers somehow from the shards of Adonalsium. And we're talking anything from ridiculously powerful like Sazed on down to Steel Inquisitors, then the inhabitants of Elantris, those monks, etc. Sanderson's "divinity" is often not divine.

And there were a LOT more shardplate sets than just the relatively few sets we see currently floating around. There were ten ORDERS of Knights Radiant and they seem to all have had shardplate and shardblade. Yes, the potential Knights Radiant seem to be making a comeback in terms of their powers returning in the mortals, but I don't see any indication so far that the original group of Heralds are coming back, in fact the last one that actually held to their code/oaths/whatever came back and died at the end of the first book.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Yeah, that whole post went off on a tangent I didn't even mean for, but it was late or whatever.

My point was originally going to be something like, Sanderson's "powers of the divine" in his books seem to have the distinction of both being infinite and being able to be completely drawn in to individuals or objects. Examples being, Preservation covered the entire world in mist yet Vin was able to embody the whole, the better part of Ruin was imprisoned within Atium encased in a part of Preservation, Sazed was able to draw both powers within him, etc. The powers are able to come and go (see Elantris) and be awarded and taken away (Elantris, Lord Ruler, hemalurgy, etc.). The powers that are "divine" in his universe are neither innate to the person nor indivisible.

edit: also, there's gotta be a reason that the two people we've seen so far with the Stormlight-drawing powers don't have shardplate yet. Maybe Shallan will also get a set at some point, who knows?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 9, 2010

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

I think in the vision, the whole shardplate glowed ... they weren't powered by the modern method of gemstones.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Er, well, I don't remember larasium as being the container for the power of one of the Adonalsium Shards, but yes, I think the spren are roughly equivalent to atium.

The Section 2 "bumper" text seem to be the text of a letter sent from Hoid to some other person, who sent agents (seen in one of the "asides" chapters) to hunt Hoid down for some reason or other. But in this letter Hoid apparently names the other people (who are at least somewhat like him and this other unnamed person, the "old reptile" who's for "nonintervention") who hold (or are?) one of the Shards of Adonalsium, Ati was mentioned who is obviously Ruin/atium, Aona is obviously behind the AonDor powers (Elantris, ChayShin, Dakhor), Skai is probably the Seons, and Rayse is probably Odium.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Saradiart posted:

Skai is on the Elantris-world too, actually.

I guessed that Skai had something to do with the Seons (if I remembered that name right) which are the energy spirit familiars in Elantris, Sel is the name of the world. Brandon hasn't quite answered that question for me, he probably hopes to leave that for a potential Elantris sequel.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Saradiart posted:

I also question how he can stretch this for ten novels, as the first novel felt a little stretched.

The first novel is a bit stretched because it's been in the writing process for a long rear end time and is a gigantic novel, but I can see how he can get 10 regularish-lengthed books out of it, mostly just from the potential Radiants that are already mentioned in the book, and the plot arc hints:

1) fully fleshing out Szeth-son-son-Vallano (I can see there being a arc where he turns against his Truthless label and his Oathstone, possibly culminating in him killing Kharbranth's king, or just him continuing on his destructive arc, either is possible)
2) Elhokar Kholin's arc (note that he sees the same spren as Shallan does)
3) More of Shallan (her backstory--especially how she came to own and to know to use a Shardblade, and her learning Soulcasting from Jasnah) (probably a goodly portion of book #2)
4) I think it's likely that Kaladin and Dalinar are new Heralds, so there may be an overarching arc that deals with that
5) What the gently caress is Hoid up to now that he's going to be an active participant?
6) Odium, The Final Desolation (hell, The Wheel of Time will have been 14 books to get to THAT particular "Final" Battle)

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

P-Mack posted:

Right, but it wasn't 14 good books, hence the concern about Stormlight going down the same route.

As long as the books don't start each having 20 different POV characters I think it'll work out alright.

You'd have to define good because even at their worst (the slump) they were well above-average. Not every book can be in the same category as The Shadow Rising.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Jan 6, 2011

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

BananaNutkins posted:

Conversely, I would have never picked up the Wheel of Time. I read the first book and thought it was too derivative of Tolkien to have any value. I remember being fifteen and tossing it across the room when the merry band of 4 farm kids gets on a ferry while being chased by orc-like creatures.

Currently on book 6, I'm still not sure I "like" the Wheel of Time series, but I'm determined to get through to the Sanderson stuff. There are parts of the WoT where the story is really great, but 90% of the rest is world building a world that is already about to collapse under its own weight, extraneous side-character viewpoints, braid tugging, crossing arms under breasts, neckline plunging, Rand\Mat\Perrin knows how to handle women, and travel travel travel ad infinitum. Sanderson knows how to cut out the boring stuff and keep what I like about enormous fantasy epics. His writing gets better with each book. Time will tell if he develops any nausea inducing cliches in his longer works, but I think he is self-conscious enough to avoid it.

If you didn't like book 4 and by the time you finish book 6 here (yeah, huge thing coming up, you should be heading right into it as you enter the second half of book 6) you are not completely hooked, I'd just drop the whole thing and give it up.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

IRQ posted:

You read all 13 books or whatever in a year?

Holy poo poo.

For what it's worth my last re-read (when I bought all the books on Kindle) only took about 10 weeks, inbetween classes and work.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

ToM is out on e-book now ...

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Saradiart posted:

In regards to future Mistborn novels (recurring character spoilers?) Sanderson has suggested that Sazed will go insane from having two conflicting shard influences and become evil.

It probably fits well with what he's got planned for the wider Shardverse, but I don't really like what that does to the ending of the first Mistborn trilogy, particularly as it basically recapitulates Lord Ruler and Preservation.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

A reminder that he's also planning out a 3rd trilogy that'll be set a few hundred years after that, so there'll be sci-fi space travel levels of technology.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Does he seriously think he's a Matrix character?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

The "bumps" of the middle section of the book is a letter from Hoid to some unspecified 3rd person (who is not any of the Gods or Shards we've seen so far) who's had people chasing him. So I don't necessarily think the people looking for Hoid that we've seen in WoK so far are anybody we've seen before.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

paradigmblue posted:

I had never heard of Sanderson before, and read TWoK on a whim. Now I really want to start the Mistborn trilogy as well.

I'm finishing up a re-read of the Mistborn trilogy now in anticipation of Alloy of Law and it's still pretty good, and really great in a lot of places.

Also, the "Sanderson Avalanche" is by now a well-documented effect.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

subx posted:

Well he only has like 6 books (minus WoT), so currently it's not too hard to get caught up on all his works. If he continues at this pace, in 20 years a "Sanderson Avalanche" will take like 2 years to read through.

But the payoffs will by that time actually give people strokes and heart attacks.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

ConfusedUs posted:

That fight in the estate is one he talks about specifically as being too technical and expository, but he couldn't find a better way to convey Allomancy as performed by a Mistborn in a better way.

Can't fault him too much for that because it sets up one of the climactic fights of the novel so drat well.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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College Slice

wallaka posted:

Their powers decrease significantly the farther they get from Elantris, which serves as a giant power-amplification spell, so I don't see them world-hopping. They couldn't teleport back from Theod? or wherever at the end of the book because it was too far away for the spell to work.

They would have to figure out how the other nations managed to tap into AonDor without the benefit of Elantris.

Not that I think this group are the characters from Elantris.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Streebs posted:

Maybe the Hoid we see in Way of Kings isn't the same Hoid we see in the other books. In Way of Kings he did say he stole the name.

The "new" Hoid is described as a younger man whereas the other Hoids are old beggars/storyteller types.

But that isn't overly strange considering Hoid seems to be in the same league as Ruin/Preservation/Aona/Skai/Sazed/Odium/etc. and is basically a god.

(The "new" Hoid says he took the name from someone he loved. So that's kind of odd.)

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

senae posted:

Going beyond that, a theme in all of his books (beside WoT and Stormlight) is that organized religion is often corruptible, or corrupted. If I didn't know any better I'd say Sanderson was an Atheist.

In Mistborn the only religion with religious truth in it was corrupted by ruin, I would say Elantris is more about Hrathens growing disenfranchisement with his religion, and the realization that his monolithic religious leader has been using his followers to do evil, and Warbreaker is about the priest upper class literally preventing their god from speaking to his own people.


Sanderson is really the best kind of Mormon author: the kind that isn't anything like Card.

In Stormlight the Radiants, the angel analogues, give up on the war and told their people a lie about the war being over and that they finally won. Then the closest thing to a priesthood in that setting the Knights Radiant completely abandon their duties as well.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Clinton1011 posted:

Wasn't there a priesthood who tried to take over politics and were overthrown and that's why they can't own anything now?

Yes, that too. Thought there's some hints that maybe they were on to something with their prophecies but didn't win that particular power struggle and got hushed the gently caress up. I'll chalk that up to a tentative "yes, another Sandersonian failed organized religion" until we get confirmation one way or the other.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

senae posted:

and technically, we only know of one set of deities for sure, and that would be ruin/preservation from mistborn.

"met in actual stories" maybe

Hoid refers to more deities/entities in his letter, in the Part 2 "bumps" in Way of Kings: Aona (Aon Dor), Skai (Skaze, also on Elantris somewhere), Rayse (Odium), Ati (Ruin)

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

IRQ posted:

It's not exactly inconceivable that a continent wouldn't know the the others existed and might think the entire world revolved around their own little part of it.

The deities are omniscient in regard to the planets they're attached to, so that wouldn't be it either.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







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BananaNutkins posted:

But Shallan did have one of the coolest scene in the book Three hearbeats

The damage on the fabrial is suggestive, that she killed her father with it (and if so, where did she get it?)

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

subx posted:

I really hope Stormlight gets a following like WoT has. Tons of speculation and such are a lot of fun.

Mistborn had a great series of setups and rug-pulls, so if Stormlight is anything like that on top of being epic-length, then yeah it's going to be absurdly enjoyable to follow.

What I'd be leery of is if some of these books put too many cards on the table--like we kind of know what's up with the Adonalsium Shards now, etc.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 27, 2011

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

subx posted:

I hope this doesn't turn into a story about the worlds/shards and all of that. As much as I'd like a story about that later on, I hope this is an epic fantasy that stands on its own.

Definitely, but the Shards/worlds/Shadesmar is a part of the setting and the metaplot has become important in the plot/resolution of some of the books.

Again, it depends on what Sanderson's eventually going for, but he was at one point suggesting that maybe Sazed went insane due to the combining forces of Ruin and Preservation in the next Mistborn series, and to me I just feel like while that may serve the metaplot, it does terrible things to the conclusion of the first series, particularly as it recapitulates Lord Ruler and Ruin.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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College Slice

subx posted:

You have a link to that? I must have missed that, and I hope that's not the premise of it or it will be a bit disappointing (I will read it and enjoy it still, I just hoped that part of the story was wrapped up).

I was hoping for some expansion on the Kandra. I haven't read much of anything about the new book though, aside from it being set in "more modern times."

I just did a google search on the matter and apparently Brandon Sanderson has since said that he is not going to go insane. A link to a 17thshard forum staffer quoting something else:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/70-theory-shards-cant-remember-their-names/page__st__20

Also apparently Preservation's name was Leras, hence Lerasium being the metal found at the Well of Ascension used to make a normal person Mistborn. The more you know!

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 27, 2011

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

subx posted:

Is it bad that I've never heard of "17th shard? Anyways, thanks for the nifty link.

Seventeeth Shard is an organization that's actually in the story, apparently. Though I don't know if that reference precedes the site or if Brandon tossed it in there for fun.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Apr 28, 2011

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Comrade Flynn posted:

Does anyone know how much Sanderson made off of WoT? I seem to recall hearing he wasn't making all that much.

Whatever it was however much it was it's going to be completely dwarfed by what he's going to make off of Stormlight.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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College Slice

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I did get the sense he thought Atium was too powerful for the protagnists to use and still have tension in the story, though, since I don't think I remember Vin burning it past the end of the first book.

I believe in the annotations Brandon pretty much said he set up the 2nd book that way so that yeah there would be tension and then he could have Vin kick the asses of a bunch of sissy atium-burning Mistborn.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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College Slice

A Nice Boy posted:

About 200 pages into WoK, quick question:

There are only ten Shardplates and ten Shardblades in the entire world, right? It seems like the royalty of the...Forget their race name, but the brilliant general, the brother of the assassinated king, etc, those guys...They have quite a few of the ten, it seems. And the assassin has one of the blades. That doesn't seem to leave very many unaccounted for.

I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say to you that the ten are Dawnshards, not quite the same thing as a regular Shardblade. There are true differences, but they're not important to you right now.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







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A Nice Boy posted:

That one chick = less rad

She's pretty rad, actually.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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College Slice

IRQ posted:

She's just a huge barrel of contradictions and her motivations don't seem known to anyone

You don't think that's intentional?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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Haraksha posted:

I just realized that she was a selfish girl who didn't trust anyone thrust into a world of research who learned to love that lifestyle.

Wait, which book are we talking about?

That and the fact that she is in possession of her own shardblade and killed her father either with it or probably for it. That's probably a "holy poo poo" level of revelation that should change the prism her character is viewed through for the entire book.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Ruin + Preservation = Harmony, eh?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Plus Sazed was apparently directly involved in at least the early stages of recovery from the cataclysm, providing (heh) harmony and stability.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

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Yeroc2 posted:

I never got the feeling Wit was supposed to really be funny. He's just supposed to be blunt, and mostly annoying to everyone else because he can be. The joke is on everyone else, not in what he says.

Wit's supposed to be vulgar and insulting without being truly offensive, AND his schtick is an act put on by an act. His more contemplative turn at the end is very nicely done.

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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Uh, Dalinar and Navani do get together in Way of Kings. It's clear that the "noble and honorable thing" you refer to is Dalinar's own expressed opinion which he, by the end of the book, ends up feeling was misplaced/misguided.

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