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Niwrad
Jul 1, 2008



MourningView posted:

Is your position somehow that the union is going to somehow lead to the team sites getting paid less? It's not like they were doing great before and now the evil labor union is coming in to steal all their money.

I don't know what their position will be. Just that it's in their members best interest that those sites not only not get paid more, but produce more cheap content.

MourningView posted:

They wanted to include the team sites as part of the bargaining unit but dont have a legal means to do so, that doesn't mean that the full time staffers should just abandon their right to collectively bargain. Anyone who has to opportunity to unionize should do so

I didn't say they shouldn't unionize. Just that they are in the weird position of profiting off the unpaid labor just like the execs and shareholders. That all the solidarity talk and praise of Vox's "progressive management" rings hollow when those union members are demanding some site manager making $100/month hit his quota.

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MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


That's coming down from the corporate side. If you have an issue with how the team sites are treated that's where the blame ultimately lies, not with the comparatively powerless full time writers and editors.

And don't crap all over them for unionizing and then turn around and pretend that's not what you're doing, come on

MourningView fucked around with this message at May 17, 2018 around 19:07

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Niwrad posted:

I don't know what their position will be. Just that it's in their members best interest that those sites not only not get paid more, but produce more cheap content.

Shut the gently caress up.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Wow this corporation makes large profits off of contractors that can't join unions! Shame on the union for cheating them

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

This is some real "You criticize capitalism and yet you own an iPhone. Hypocrite much?!?!?!?" level poo poo.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


If the Vox Union cannot force the United States to change it's labor laws then it's being explotative and shouldn't exist is a truly impressive galaxy brain take though so credit to you there I guess

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


I think Niwrad is saying that the Vox Union probably isn't going to make decisions to help community writers that are explicitly not part of the Union, which doesn't sound like a controversial statement. If the Union is given a chunk of money to distribute to it's membership, it'd be their job to make sure as much of that goes to members (IE, not community content creators) as is reasonable.

That's not them being evil, it's the Union doing it's job. But it doesn't help the community creators.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Lockback posted:

That's not them being evil,

That was very much not what his posts implied, and he also seemed to blame them for how the team site writers are treated or for them not being part of the bargaining unit, both of which are things completely out of their control.

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Doctor Rope

Jackie D posted:

Not to mention UFC and WWE

WWE and UFC follow the combat sports/pro wrestling models that have been around for decades at this point. It's not really anything new.

The talent should be unionized, but that's an entirely separate can of worms.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





exploded mummy posted:

WWE and UFC follow the combat sports/pro wrestling models that have been around for decades at this point. It's not really anything new.

The talent should be unionized, but that's an entirely separate can of worms.

Still hope if/when wrestlers unionize they keep the name "Union of People You OUghtta Respect, Son".

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

Dwyane Wade is still taking his player option for $23.8 million next season, according to sources. The Jimmy Butler trade affects nothing


Most of the talent are extremely libertarian gently caress you got mine and would fight unionization anyway.

The Pussy Boss
Nov 2, 2004

Nice post.


I wish Grant Brisbee would just leave SBN entirely so I never have to go there again. Hate their business model but he's really funny and writes about my favorite team.

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


The Pussy Boss posted:

I wish Grant Brisbee would just leave SBN entirely so I never have to go there again. Hate their business model but he's really funny and writes about my favorite team.

I don't even like baseball and I love Grant Brisbee

Niwrad
Jul 1, 2008



MourningView posted:

That's coming down from the corporate side. If you have an issue with how the team sites are treated that's where the blame ultimately lies, not with the comparatively powerless full time writers and editors.

Most of the brand managers are writers and editors themselves. They're in the union. They're also the one's sending out the e-mails pushing for crossposting because it helps get the video numbers up. When those sites do well it means more traffic to their articles as they routinely promote the national stuff.

I don't have a problem with the union. It's great. Everyone involved in journalism should try and form one at their outlet so they don't get hosed as hard. But that union benefits a great deal from the labor being exploited throughout that network. When Matt Brown e-mails the college sites to tell them to link more, specifically to the SBNation content and podcasts, it's not an editorial decision. It's telling some guy getting $30/month to throw some traffic to those full-time employees. All those SBNation writers get a lot of traffic and promotion from those other sites written by people not in the union.

Again, nothing is wrong with the union. It's good. But it's also used to cover up what the real problem is at sites like Vox. They pay a handful of full-time writers and editors real money, pretend to be labor friendly by working with a tiny union, then make their profit off the people they don't have to pay.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


None of that is the fault of the people in the union. They might send the actual emails but they're not the ones who came up with the business model, set the content demands, determine compensation, or refuse to classify team site writers as employees. That's all from Vox corporate. If you want to blame someone that is who you should blame. The union is protecting the interests of the writers they can, they can't change labor laws

MourningView fucked around with this message at May 17, 2018 around 20:54

Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004



https://twitter.com/ESPNPR/status/997173760657690624

Spring Break My Heart
Feb 15, 2012


He loving sucks.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007

If loving you is binturong, I don't want to binturight.

Isn't that the guy who admitted he was a paid UFC shill

BWV
Feb 24, 2005



i thought he was the guy UFC kept on banning from events because he was reporting less than positive things about them. Or maybe I was getting worked.

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Doctor Rope

DJExile posted:

Isn't that the guy who admitted he was a paid UFC shill

not exactly

he had a full time gig writing for mmafighting.com

he worked for Fox Sports part time for their MMA show and was paid by Fox for that show.

but he also did work on the pre and post fight shows for Fox, where technically they are paid by Zuffa (UFC's parent) because it wasn't the MMA show, but all that money for these pre and post shows came from Fox anyway, so you basically had Fox paying Zuffa to pay Helwani and the other talent on those shows.

basically it was a way for UFC to keep a muzzle on some of the journalists closest to their talent

eventually Helwani got canned from Fox because UFC hated his reporting and it not being pro-UFC enough

then a few months after that he got banned for life and his entire staff were thrown out of UFC 199 because he announced that Brock Lesnar was going to be back for UFC 200 before it could be revealed on the show

then everyone lit dana white a new one and he unbanned ariel

then Ariel was set to do pool coverage for McGregor/Mayweather for Showtime and Dana had him banned again, just after Ariel took a cross country redeye.

Jota
May 6, 2003

uga-booga uga-booga

ariel helwani is a massive dweeb and also absolutely awful and loving with him is one of the best things dana white has ever done

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

exploded mummy posted:

WWE and UFC follow the combat sports/pro wrestling models that have been around for decades at this point. It's not really anything new.

The talent should be unionized, but that's an entirely separate can of worms.

Wwe wrestlers are in no way independent contractors though. They are salaried employees with no benefits.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

Jota posted:

ariel helwani is a massive dweeb and also absolutely awful and loving with him is one of the best things dana white has ever done

He is a giant dweeb but also Dana is a piece of poo poo who shits on reporters that do their job when it inconveniences him so it all evens out.

Jota
May 6, 2003

uga-booga uga-booga

algebra testes posted:

He is a giant dweeb but also Dana is a piece of poo poo who shits on reporters that do their job when it inconveniences him so it all evens out.

Yeah agreed Dana making GBS threads on him is cool and he deserves it

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Ariel has atrocious opinions but with fact-based reporting is actually pretty good IMO

Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004



they promised more soccer coverage

it's here

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticSCCR...145254561173504

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


sportsgenius86 posted:

Ariel has atrocious opinions but with fact-based reporting is actually pretty good IMO

mma woj

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

Ariel sucks rear end and it's bad to paint him in the same paint as journos who actually working for a job

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy


I don't understand why people would visit the Athletic for the big European leagues when there are like, European websites in English that already have tonnes of excellent paid journalists covering all this?

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


I know it's already been said a bunch of times but my thing with The Athletic and why I'm not really into paying for it is, what I want to read on the internet is good, thoughtful, entertaining analysis. What I don't want is bog standard beat reporting, not even if it's really good beat reporting. But it seems like that's mostly what TA sells.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?


Eric the Mauve posted:

I know it's already been said a bunch of times but my thing with The Athletic and why I'm not really into paying for it is, what I want to read on the internet is good, thoughtful, entertaining analysis. What I don't want is bog standard beat reporting, not even if it's really good beat reporting. But it seems like that's mostly what TA sells.
Yeah same here, itís pretty bonkers to me that they are paywalling pretty standard beat writer stuff. I get that some of these people have trouble being employed by newspapers anymore, but I have no desire to pay for it.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

I'm A Lonely Boy


Eric the Mauve posted:

I know it's already been said a bunch of times but my thing with The Athletic and why I'm not really into paying for it is, what I want to read on the internet is good, thoughtful, entertaining analysis. What I don't want is bog standard beat reporting, not even if it's really good beat reporting. But it seems like that's mostly what TA sells.

I joined because a specific journalist provides good constant insight. Itís not ďentertainingĒ but itís solid and not just rote copy.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

algebra testes posted:

I don't understand why people would visit the Athletic for the big European leagues when there are like, European websites in English that already have tonnes of excellent paid journalists covering all this?

American sports sites are desperately trying to make soccer A Thing.

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DO YALL WANT A BOXC
Jul 20, 2010

EYY WHO WANTS A PIZZA PIE ? PASTA LINGUINE ITSA FAMILY THING PAISAN EYYYYYY





Fun Shoe

I mean, I would pay 4 bucks a month or whatever it is if Andrew Gross covered the Rangers again since he was their best beat guy, but they hired Rick Carpinello who is just very bland so I read more of the other stuff on the site. so it depends on the beat writer for me

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