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Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


PHIZ KALIFA posted:

we've already got the totalitarian part down, so why not? how could it possibly make things worse?


edit- y'all maybe the reason things suck so much is because we're content to have the apparatus of our weaponized carceral state pointed only at the poor and nonwhite. maybe, maybe, holding powerful people to the same criminal standard as a street dealer isn't tyranny, as you all so eloquently claim.

Because you're arguing the exact opposite. You're saying that instead of using rule of law you should use some sort of subjective "Public Good" to throw people in jail. Take a wild guess as to who powerful people will target as against the public good.

"We jailed him indefinitely for the good of the state" is like the rallying cry of the tyrant.

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009





Intent is proved all the time itís not really hard unless you are being purposely difficult or are a stupid brainwashed juror blinded by racism

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
ABS THUNDERSKULL.

element: thunderbolts.

steed: a thunderbolt.

slogan/motto: "gonna clap them cheeks like a Thunderskull."


Lockback posted:

Because you're arguing the exact opposite. You're saying that instead of using rule of law you should use some sort of subjective "Public Good" to throw people in jail. Take a wild guess as to who powerful people will target as against the public good.

"We jailed him indefinitely for the good of the state" is like the rallying cry of the tyrant.

i'm yawning and making a j/o motion at this post. if you're just going to rail against what you imagine i'm saying i don't see any reason to lend your posts any more credence than Metapod's.

euphronius posted:

Intent is proved all the time itís not really hard unless you are being purposely difficult or are a stupid brainwashed juror blinded by racism

also, since metapod said something is difficult we now know, scientifically, that it was never difficult and cannot possibly ever become so.

Adun
Apr 15, 2001

Publicola

Fun Shoe

euphronius posted:

Intent is proved all the time itís not really hard unless you are being purposely difficult or are a stupid brainwashed juror blinded by racism

How do you prove someone on cable news spouting bullshit is intending to actually harm people instead of what they honestly believe. I mean how do you even prove what they say is actually harming people.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
ABS THUNDERSKULL.

element: thunderbolts.

steed: a thunderbolt.

slogan/motto: "gonna clap them cheeks like a Thunderskull."


Adun posted:

How do you prove someone on cable news spouting bullshit is intending to actually harm people instead of what they honestly believe. I mean how do you even prove what they say is actually harming people.

yeah like, reality isn't even real, maaaaaaaaaaaaan. we're all a computer hallucination inside a electronic sheep's daydream.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012



We had a TV doctor selling snake oil to masses that received no consequences despite being called to congress over it because they couldn't prove he didn't believe in the products he was selling. Intent is a hard thing to prove

Adun
Apr 15, 2001

Publicola

Fun Shoe

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

yeah like, reality isn't even real, maaaaaaaaaaaaan. we're all a computer hallucination inside a electronic sheep's daydream.



Good to know teenagers are still reading Philip K Dick

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


MourningView posted:

He's the main draw for the biggest sports podcast in the country, he could go just about anywhere or do his own thing if he really wanted to. He's at barstool because he wants to be at barstool, I don't get how people are still making excuses for him. Getting people to go "well sure the site does some bad things but at least they have this" is exactly why he's there, and his whole gimmick makes it easier for them to hide all the gross stuff behind the "it's just jokes" defense

This but also his gimmick sucks

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



sorry to interrupt LF but apparently Dana White had some words for Kevin Draper (formerly of Deadspin!)'s piece on the UFC not following their own covid 19 protocols.

https://twitter.com/MMAjunkie/statu...814098968842240

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

One death is a tragedy, ten deaths is a statistic. Especially if it saves my job.


MourningView posted:

He's the main draw for the biggest sports podcast in the country, he could go just about anywhere or do his own thing if he really wanted to.

I think thatís kind of hard to argue in a time where even guys like Drew Magary and Spencer Hall canít keep steady work.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


Heís in a different stratosphere than those guys, and people actually pay for podcasters these days

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 16 days!


General Dog posted:

I think thatís kind of hard to argue in a time where even guys like Drew Magary and Spencer Hall canít keep steady work.

drew magary is doing just fine and spencer hall was cut by an organization who didn't understand the product they had and the value it brought in; i'm sure if spencer hall wanted a job writing about college football under someone else's masthead he could get one tomorrow

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


morestuff posted:

Heís in a different stratosphere than those guys, and people actually pay for podcasters these days

Yeah and Drew is writing at like ten different places and just had another novel published so he seems like he's probably fine.

Adun
Apr 15, 2001

Publicola

Fun Shoe

MourningView posted:

Yeah and Drew is writing at like ten different places and just had another novel published so he seems like he's probably fine.

Speaking of which it's just $8 on Kindle

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


I do think PFT is given more creative freedom at Barstool than anywhere else, or at least creative freedom for the money he makes. That doesn't excuse him staying connected to that place but his thing would get absolutely ruined a lot of places.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009





Adun posted:

How do you prove someone on cable news spouting bullshit is intending to actually harm people instead of what they honestly believe. I mean how do you even prove what they say is actually harming people.

You get evidence and make an argument.

I feel like tho the correct response to you is what I already posted

dadjokes
Feb 9, 2015


I was talking to someone about newspapers the other day, and it kinda got me thinking - has there ever been a columnist/journalist/local sports personality that has made the jump to a front office or coaching job? It seems like some more stats focused writers have gotten gigs with teams, but thinking back to the traditional columnist or radio host have their been any? I'm not sure if Matt Millen counts because gently caress Matt Millen and also because he was a former player and not just a sports caster.

I vaguely remember hearing that Bill Simmons was up for the Timberwolves job at some point, and I would like to think some NHL owner in the 60s or 70s after getting criticized for a while said "You do it then jackass", but sort of drawing a blank otherwise. Slight caveat here is keeping it to North America as I've heard stories in Brazil and Italy of journalists being named soccer managers.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


dadjokes posted:

I was talking to someone about newspapers the other day, and it kinda got me thinking - has there ever been a columnist/journalist/local sports personality that has made the jump to a front office or coaching job? It seems like some more stats focused writers have gotten gigs with teams, but thinking back to the traditional columnist or radio host have their been any? I'm not sure if Matt Millen counts because gently caress Matt Millen and also because he was a former player and not just a sports caster.

I vaguely remember hearing that Bill Simmons was up for the Timberwolves job at some point, and I would like to think some NHL owner in the 60s or 70s after getting criticized for a while said "You do it then jackass", but sort of drawing a blank otherwise. Slight caveat here is keeping it to North America as I've heard stories in Brazil and Italy of journalists being named soccer managers.

John Hollinger did it with the Grizzlies, along with several other stats-based NBA guys that found scouting and analytics roles

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Simmons wasn't actually up for the Timberwolves job. He started campaigning for it in his column as a joke, somehow talked himself into the idea that he should really be a candidate despite absolutely no professional basketball experience of any kind, and then got legitimately mad when he didn't get it while still trying to play it all off as a joke.

Though speaking of Minnesota, Sid Hartman, who has been a columnist for the Minneapolis Star Trib for like 80 years, was at one point also the GM for the Minneapolis Lakers.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 17:49 on May 15, 2020

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



One of the baseball prospectus guys became a major part of the Astrosí scouting department

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


morestuff posted:

John Hollinger did it with the Grizzlies, along with several other stats-based NBA guys that found scouting and analytics roles

I think almost all the original Stepein guys have parlayed that into actual NBA scouting jobs at one point or another. You can always tell when they get hired because they go completely silent on Twitter.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


Bill James also worked as a consultant with the Red Sox for a decade.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters


Mike Mayock did not get the GM job with the Raiders on the strength of his nine game career in the NFL.

BWV
Feb 24, 2005



I know he's probably best known for his journalism but Magic Johnson worked for the Lakers a few times.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



BWV posted:

I know he's probably best known for his journalism but Magic Johnson worked for the Lakers a few times.

dammit i wanted to make this joke

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Jerry Coleman went from the broadcast booth to managing the San Diego Padres in 1980, and then back to the broadcasting booth in 1981. Not a pure journalist/broadcaster, though - he'd been an all-star for the Yankees in the 1950s.

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004



the Bill Simmons Timberwolves would have been the funniest NBA calamity in decades.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 16 days!


R.D. Mangles posted:

the Bill Simmons Timberwolves would have been the funniest NBA calamity in decades.

everyone wouldíve gotten a chuckle out of him calling wesley johnson ďwesley johnsonís expiring contractĒ to his face

dadjokes
Feb 9, 2015


The more stats focused writers get in with some frequency and that makes a ton of sense, and I knew that it happens with more regularity. I just specifically remember how much Mitch Album seemed to position himself as the be all know all of sports in Detroit, and how all the teams wanted to know his opinion/get his blessing before making a move. I get the self aggrandizing is off the charts with him and I would think that its probably similar for writers of his stature and time frame.

At first I was thinking it was odd that it doesn't happen more considering the contact and crossover in a relatively small sphere, but its probably not that different from thinking why aren't people clamoring for the NYT editorial board to run for political office/department appointments. And no one but people who are on the NYT editorial board would ever think thats a good idea.

Simmons being a GM would just be further conformation of hell world, but the idea that at every away game on the video screen they played the billionaires should pay for their own loving stadium clip would almost be worth it.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Tonnes of NHL analytics guys got head office jobs, but I don't know if they were journalists per se since most of them were bloggers or ran their own stats analysis sites.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






R.D. Mangles posted:

the Bill Simmons Timberwolves would have been the funniest NBA calamity in decades.

Simmons couldn't have been that much worse than the David Kahn era


Kahn was really bad

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


Coincidentally David Kahn worked as a beat writer for the Trailblazers to start his career

Adun
Apr 15, 2001

Publicola

Fun Shoe

lol for some reason Portnoy is on CNBC right now.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011
ABS THUNDERSKULL.

element: thunderbolts.

steed: a thunderbolt.

slogan/motto: "gonna clap them cheeks like a Thunderskull."


dadjokes posted:

At first I was thinking it was odd that it doesn't happen more considering the contact and crossover in a relatively small sphere, but its probably not that different from thinking why aren't people clamoring for the NYT editorial board to run for political office/department appointments. And no one but people who are on the NYT editorial board would ever think thats a good idea.

the NYT doesn't hold offices directly but it's plumb foolishness to pretend that they aren't in the position to define acceptable and unacceptable political action. They're kingmakers to a huge degree. likewise, sports writers often find themselves as tentpoles and tastemakers for the sports fandom in a way that teams often coordinate backstage. Bringing them into the fold proper diminishes their sway in the fandom, so instead they just coincidentally find their mailbox stuffed with swag and their e-mails answered by higher ups and everyone pretends this doesn't make their writing #sponcon

edit- or so i would imagine it works.

edit edit- i'm not naming names but plenty of the bigger ___________ Nation writers are absolutely getting kickbacks for all their "free" labor, if that's how it worked in theory.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

One death is a tragedy, ten deaths is a statistic. Especially if it saves my job.


Good, Iím glad somebody was paying them

Troy Queef
Jan 12, 2013

I was 12 when I made love for the first time, in Tropea, with a Roman girl who was 17 years old.





https://twitter.com/missykaybm/stat...7767166976?s=20

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

I been ballin' so damn hard I swear I think that I'm Coby


I dunno, Julie is mostly good peoples.


She had just been layed off from her sports job in Chicago.

I just don't particularly blame writers or talkers in this lovely industry from taking a job right now.


I tend to save my ire for those at the top, not someone who's probably pretty desperate for a check.

Troy Queef
Jan 12, 2013

I was 12 when I made love for the first time, in Tropea, with a Roman girl who was 17 years old.





Dexo posted:

I dunno, Julie is mostly good peoples.


She had just been layed off from her sports job in Chicago.

I just don't particularly blame writers or talkers in this lovely industry from taking a job right now.


I tend to save my ire for those at the top, not someone who's probably pretty desperate for a check.

scabs aren't good people

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

One death is a tragedy, ten deaths is a statistic. Especially if it saves my job.


People don't owe people a drat thing.

The new Deadspin people don't even meet any traditional definition of sc*b, not that they'd have any reason to hang their head if they did. God the labor solidarity crowd makes me want to put on some heavy-rear end boots.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

I been ballin' so damn hard I swear I think that I'm Coby


Troy Queef posted:

scabs aren't good people

They aren't scabs. The union didn't strike, they didn't take someone else's job who were still employed but participating in a labor action.


But I don't begrudge anyone who in this current loving hell time needs to take a job in their field especially in loving media to survive.


More than anything it's just that the content loving sucks.


Edit: I don't agree with GD above. Solidarity is important, but I cannot get angry or mad at someone for taking an open position even at a company with trash ownership and management.

Dexo fucked around with this message at 03:18 on May 16, 2020

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