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nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



How similar are Kevin Durant and my son?

seriously, who the gently caress greenlit this column idea in the first place?

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nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Welcome back, Michael Schur.

Love the killer 'letter' in the footnotes.

nasboat fucked around with this message at Oct 13, 2011 around 17:12

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



It kind of fizzled out at the end, but I don't think it was bad at all. If anything, it was pretty accurate. Would've liked more length (and maybe I just miss FJM so I was dying to see one of the guys just rip the poo poo out of the Boston media) but compared to what's truly bad -- i.e. almost everything else in this thread -- it doesn't even hold a candle.

nasboat fucked around with this message at Oct 13, 2011 around 20:12

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Mornacale posted:

Writing a "woe is me" article about the Red Sox based on some kind of ridiculous mythic "culture of losing" is pretty bad, no matter how well it calls out some people who need to be called out. They've been one of the best franchises in MLB for a decade or so, there's more than one fanbase who's seen just as many ridiculous meltdowns without any of the preceding success.

I didn't really see it as "woe is me," and I thought the point was valid. Really did not view it like this in the slightest.

Are you saying that there wasn't an old, idiotic, curse-based narrative that people seemed to latch onto prior to 2002? Or that (thankfully) that narrative had been buried, and that was good? I'm just kind of confused, like you're attacking this piece based as if it was some blog written by a downtrodden Boston fan or terrible member of the national media.

note: not a Red Sox fan (downside of getting rid of my Montero av, I guess!)

nasboat fucked around with this message at Oct 13, 2011 around 21:37

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Just gonna leave this here. People getting picky about the use of the word "we" in sports is a gigantic pet peeve of mine (yes, my pet peeve is people who complain about it, not people who do it), and the fact that a good writer wasted time and effort to put this piece together makes it even worse.

morestuff posted:

Crosspost from the NBA thread:

Esquire has an excerpt from Scott Raab's hit piece on Lebron, The Whore of Akron. It's some of the most self-indulgent writing I've ever read.

This is really, really bad. Why do we give a poo poo about Scott Raab? Self-indulgent doesn't even describe it, sadly.

nasboat fucked around with this message at Oct 18, 2011 around 19:30

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



So I was proud to see a local writer that I know -- Matt Jones -- get to take the "Kentucky will win the national title" piece on Grantland. Then I got to his final point.

Matt Jones posted:

3. UK Fans Deserve It



Yeah, we are probably more obsessed than anyone, but come on. This is your shot to write for a big-name, widely-read national website and this is the best you come up with?

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



morestuff posted:

This type of writing usually comes off as petty, but Tom Ziller has a fantastic take-down of Bill Simmons' column on the NBA lockout. I don't really have any huge amount of hatred for Simmons, but he's been so far off-base on this that it's nice to see another writer address it.

I don't really see what makes this so fantastic a piece. A majority of it is him just giving smarmy responses to a Bill Simmons column. Anyone can 'MST3K' another person's writing -- doesn't make it good or worthwhile.

Not to say I agree with Simmons or anything (seems pretty well-known that he means well but is off-base with many of his ideas, especially regarding the lockout), but the fervor with which other lesser-known writers trip over each other to get out there and attack his stuff is hilarious.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Holocausplay posted:

Oh, man, I completely forgot about this. Have you ever read how this dude deals with critics online and how much time he spends on people who don't think he's awesome?

Jeet Christ.

I had no clue. I've just seen Jones' writing in Esquire and other places and have enjoyed some of his work. However, I'm not that surprised now that I think about it -- I noticed he used to post quite a bit on the sportsjournalists.com forums when I used to go there a few years back.

Step away from the computer, Chris!

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



dokomoy posted:

Where was this posted? I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around the fact that someone got payed to write this poo poo.

It was a blog post, I am almost positive this guy was not paid anything to write that.

Give him credit, though -- I was laughing quite a bit at his paragraphs of somewhat-interesting insults, even if it was surreal to read that entire thing. He's competely wrong, of course, but B+ for effort!

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Koons posted:

If they were 1-14 or something like that, then yeah. However, they are on the verge of making the playoffs, and it's not just Dalton. If Palmer would have stayed, I think they might have enjoyed equal success. What I'm trying to say is I just think he's a whiny bitch, so gently caress him anyway.

After seeing Hard Knocks, I will never blame anyone for not wanting to work under Mike Brown. That organization could be doing much better if he didn't nose in everything with frugality and nepotism running rampant.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



this entire conversation pretty much sums up why I did a complete 180 in my late 20s and decided that sportswriting was not a great career choice. Well that and the pay.

I love sports, but it's more fun from this side of things.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

sportswriting as a potential career made me Hate Sports. So I didn't do it, which was the best decision ever... and it still kind of hosed up hockey for me forever.

what I found particularly grating was that I drifted into sportswriting because I could write and I love sports -- seemed obvious. Then I spent night after night missing the actual sporting events that I enjoy watching, instead having to write 20 inches on a 78-25 blowout win in a high school girls' basketball game.

(well that and the pay)

e: combine that with the fact that print journalism is dying, the places you'd work up to are laying people off left and right, so there's no spots to try and aim for -- and the lower rungs of the ladder are being fought over by people who are overqualified for the position but need work. Poor pay and terrible prospects for the future. I think people are much better off blogging and getting noticed (like a few of our esteemed SAS posters) than working up the ladder the traditional way.

nasboat fucked around with this message at Feb 16, 2012 around 02:07

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Crion posted:

The only good entry-level jobs in sports journalism are supplementary ones; you need to be doing something else to pay rent while you blog/write columns until someone picks you up. And then blog and column while working your day job until you have enough separate freelance revenue streams that you can stop the day job and just focus in on the writing.

I think this is really the more modern route and the way to go. If you want to hone your chops and get experience, you can always latch on at a small daily or even a weekly -- I started out at my local weekly (circ. ~4,500) on a salary around 20k (which is mildly livable in central KY, certainly not a good income in a big market), and actually took a paycut when I switched to a daily with a circulation of roughly 12k. But if you're going to do that, you need to supplement with freelance writing and personal work as well, as Crion said.

Really, the internet has opened up so many new outlets for people to get their writing out there and newspapers are still struggling to catch up, I think -- and the smart writers realized that early and capitalized on it.

Me? I'm happy to sell out and take a state job* with a pretty good salary and benefits while getting to watch all of my favorite sports.

*admittedly it is a job that can be depressing as hell, but it pays the bills

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



The broken bones posted:

So what's the end game in this? Looks to me like we're gonna keep the horrible opinions and suffer in journalism.

I have no idea, and I don't think anyone in the journalism industry does, either. That's what makes it an even scarier proposition.

excellent post, btw.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



BackInTheUSSR posted:

Hoppes, by the way, is my old professor and author of literally the most shameless piece of poo poo assemblage of words in the history of ESPN.

ahahahaha what the gently caress is this

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



crossposting from the NCAAB N/V thread because this article is not good

Chuck Klosterman should probably stick to writing about North Dakota and The Real World and 80's metal.

Chuck Klosterman posted:

Now, I'm not suggesting that every single college will turn into a clone of Kentucky, because that's impossible. There aren't enough good players in America for that to happen. But Calipari's scheme will become standard at a handful of universities where losing at basketball is unacceptable: North Carolina, Syracuse, Kansas, UCLA, and maybe even Duke. These schools already recruit one-and-done freshmen, but they'll have to go further; they'll have to be as transparent about their motives as Calipari is (because transparency is the obsession of modernity). If they resist, they will fade. And the result will be a radical amplification of what the game has already become: There will be five schools sharing the 25 best players in the country, and all the lesser programs will kill each other for the right to lose to those five schools in the Sweet 16. It will skew the competitive balance of major conferences and split D-I basketball into two completely unequal tiers. Final Four games will look more and more like sloppy pro games, and national interest in college basketball will wane (even if the level of play technically increases).5 In 10 years, it might be a niche sport for people like me people who can't get over the past.

Kentucky totally deserves to win. But I sure hope they don't.

What sort of loving world is he living in where college basketball isn't already pretty drat close to what he described? Also this is the same tripe that people said when they instituted the one-and-done rule and college basketball seems fine to me. This just comes off as so whiny, like he has some vision of a basketball utopia that we all used to enjoy (but also has never existed in America, like, ever.)

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



As much as I'd like to just try and forget about JoePos and the stance he took that day (and I remember the details coming out as it was happening), I really don't see any way to do so. He really should've kept his mouth shut.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



I can only share my experience, but...

Fresh out of college, 2003, at a weekly paper (working as 'sports editor' aka a one-man sports department) with a circulation just under 5,000: starting pay $19,000 per year, topped out at ~$23,000 per year in 2007.

2008, daily newspaper, as a sports writer only, with a circulation somewhere between 10-12k: starting and ending pay of $13 per hour. No overtime allowed.

I left that last job to go into government work in 2010 and finally got into the >30k club.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



I loving hate Bill Plaschke, he is dreadful.

This is only partially fueled by the fact that he's a Louisville native and UL fan. Mostly it's because he writes poo poo like that Vonn piece (and numerous other terrible articles of various levels of reprehensibility).

Simers is basically a gimmick or bordering on parody, kind of like a Skip Bayless in print. At least that's how I look at him.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



davecrazy posted:

He's 100% right, so what's the problem?

the mountain of verbal diarrhea in which he chose to showcase his point

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



swizz posted:

I really liked Jeremy Schaap's work related to the "Finding Bobby Fischer" segment he did for Outside the Lines

The exchange at the end between he and Fischer at the press conference was amazing at the time and is still amazing today.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Vertical Lime posted:

Here's a spotlight on a bad Jason Collins piece:

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/02/her...ns_column_ever/

wow. I actually was slated to interview for a job at that paper a few years ago but cancelled when I took a different position elsewhere. Reading this, I'm glad I never made the trek to Mattoon, Illinois.

ultimately not surprised someone would write a poo poo column like that about the Collins situation, though.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



The story was good, but I got really tired of it being in second-person. For a piece that length, I think it ultimately detracts from the story to keep using it the entire time.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Deathlove posted:

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...game-turns-ugly

When The Beautiful Game Turns Ugly - A journey into the world of Italy's racist soccer thugs.

Pretty great.

Was just coming here to post that. Great read. Wright Thompson kills it yet again.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



LARGE THE HEAD posted:

I can't say for reasons of employment. (SA is where I come to curse on the Internet and leave work behind.) But yeah, it is a bit weird.

SID or journalist?

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Selling a borderline HBP is not at all uncommon and does not deserve the ridicule that the karate slap rightfully received.

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



leokitty posted:

Have you ever read anything written by Scott Miller?

dancing in a conga line in celebration over here

nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



Declan MacManus posted:

Not to derail too much here but two of Christianity's big tenets are "always be converting"



As you all know, first prize is redeeming yourself through the lord Jesus Christ. Second prize is a brand new Bible. Third prize is you're stoned to death.

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nasboat
Sep 9, 2004



IMB posted:

I imagine what happened went like this: "hey, I covered that rapist cop when he played in college, why don't you let me do a story about why so many people are defending him and believe he's innocent" Which 1.) is a legitimately interesting topic and 2.) A vocal minority in Oklahoma (I live here) actually believe he's innocent.

It's not a legitimately interesting topic. So people close to the rapist can't believe he did it? That's not really news, or shocking, or anything to base a long-form piece on. And I'm not surprised that there is a vocal minority who believes he's innocent. I mean, there are groups of people that literally deny that surprise sex is a thing. Of course there's going to be a group that thinks the black women he raped are lying (and they're probably racist and stupid and certainly not worthy of any sort of attention paid to them).

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