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Fnoigy posted:Ok, really stupid question here, but why, exactly, does everybody hate The Galactic Empire? I mean, yea, it's ruled by the Sith lord and his apprentice, but nobody in the movies ever really say what the Empire does that really is so bad, other than taking extreme measures to pacify a violent rebellious uprising, but what ELSE do they do that everybody hates? What made the Rebellion start other than the fact that it was an empire rather than a republic? Concerning what made the Rebellion start, someone else will have to cover that because I hear that's retconned in The Force Unleashed, so anything I know there will now be wrong. As for what they did wrong, you have to remember what Tarkin said at the beginning of A New Hope. The Emperor has disbanded the Senate, and fear of the Death Star will now keep the local systems in line. Which means that the Emeperor has now abolished the body of duly elected representatives, placed appointed Governors in charge who are allowed to do whatever they want, and if you don't like it the Empire can blow up your planet, quite possibly destroying everything and everyone you have ever known. That's about as evil as you can get this side of kicking puppies. Also, this isn't covered in the movies (other than an off-hand comment by the officer in the detention center) but the Empire is extremely xenophobic. They enslaved the entire Wookiee planet, and I think we can agree that slavery is pretty drat bad. edit: Also, yeah, those things mentioned in the OP.
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Aug 16, 2010 16:38
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Fnoigy posted:Ok, really stupid question here, but why, exactly, does everybody hate The Galactic Empire? I mean, yea, it's ruled by the Sith lord and his apprentice, but nobody in the movies ever really say what the Empire does that really is so bad, other than taking extreme measures to pacify a violent rebellious uprising, but what ELSE do they do that everybody hates? What made the Rebellion start other than the fact that it was an empire rather than a republic?  BLEW UP A loving PLANET!I mean, I love Thrawn as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend everything was sunshine and peaches under Palpatine.
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Aug 16, 2010 16:41
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I wrote up a post answering the question, but then I lost it. So to sum it up beyond what's in the OP: The Galactic Empire is Nazi Germany with aliens replacing Hitler's Untermenschen. Everything Hitler did - campaigns of terror, wanton brutality, warmongering - Palpatine is guilty of as well. They both used the same deception strategies too - promise a war-torn nation/galaxy peace, stability and order. Use an attempted "coup" (Reichstag Fire/Jedi Coup) to consolidate power without appearing to be overtly seizing it. Institute organizations to ensure ideological purity (Nazi Party/COMPNOR), crush any signs of revolt as soon as they appear. While both governments did technically deliver on some of their promises of peace and prosperity, the sheer amount of crimes against humanity (hell, all life for Palps) vastly outweighs any possible good they may have done. Perhaps under Thrawn or Pellaeon, the Empire could have been different, but as it was, the Empire was evil. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 16:44
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T-1000 posted:He left it in a good place when the original series ended. Back when the enemy were the Empire and things made sense. You fought British dudes with snazzy uniforms and evil schemes. None of this fighting-spaceships-made-of-plants crap. There is no reason why he can't have Wraith Squadron still fighting in the pre-NJO era. This was some behind-the-scenes commando squad anyway and the SW universe is huge, there is no reason they have to be involve in some huge galaxy spanning conflict that the Big 3 are a part of. Hell you can just have them fighting space pirates and it would be still great.
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Aug 16, 2010 16:46
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In the first Star Wars film, the Empire attacks a diplomatic ship and kills everyone on board. They then wipe out a family and burn down their house because the might have bought a droid the Empire wanted. They torture a princess. They blow up a planet, resulting in a body count that makes the Holocaust seem picayune by comparison. And that's just one movie. How much more cartoonishly Nazi do you want them do be? Should they have had Darth Vader kick a puppy?
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Aug 16, 2010 16:47
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I'm wondering how long we can get away with this line of conversation before Mad Hammish starts cracking skulls.
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Aug 16, 2010 16:48
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sniper4625 posted:I wrote up a post answering the question, but then I lost it. 
Fnoigy fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 16:50
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Fnoigy posted:Makes sense to me! I think they should have alluded to that more thoroughly in the movies, though. Yeah, the movies could have fleshed things out more, but all they needed was a blatantly evil antagonist. (Weren't the movies written on the fly? I don't think there was much planning anyway) Besides, a lot of the evidence against the Empire comes from the EU. Hell, I think I read that High Human Culture was the EU's way of explaining why every Imperial we see in the movies are human males (and English!) Fnoigy posted:Hell, you could have called the Rebel Alliance "terrorists" and would have little to no trouble putting a whole different spin on the entire trilogy. Paging Mad Hamish.
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Aug 16, 2010 16:53
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Fnoigy posted:Makes sense to me! I think they should have alluded to that more thoroughly in the movies, though. Hell, you could have called the Rebel Alliance "terrorists" and would have little to no trouble putting a whole different spin on the entire trilogy. Not really. Again, the Empire blew up a planet. A planet filled with innocent people. Also, keep in mind that when Lucas wrote A New Hope, he was writing as an allegory for the Vietnam War, with the Emperor as a useless Nixon type president. He saw the Empire as the eventual result of a country like America. Lucas used to be political. (well, he used to be slightly more subtle about it)
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Aug 16, 2010 16:53
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thrawn527 posted:Not really. Again, the Empire blew up a planet. A planet filled with innocent people. At the time, whose word did we have that the planet was peaceful? Just Leia's - for all audiences knew, she could have been lying and Alderaan could have been a hotbed of dissension, armed to the teeth. In that context, the destruction of the world could have been justified. In hindsight, and considering the amount of EU material supporting Alderaan's pacifism, it's obviously pure evil. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 16:57
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sniper4625 posted:At the time, whose word did we have that the planet was peaceful? Just Leia's - for all audiences knew, she could have been lying and Alderaan could have been a hotbed of dissension, armed to the teeth.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:00
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WhyteRyce posted:There is no reason why he can't have Wraith Squadron still fighting in the pre-NJO era. This was some behind-the-scenes commando squad anyway and the SW universe is huge, there is no reason they have to be involve in some huge galaxy spanning conflict that the Big 3 are a part of. Hell you can just have them fighting space pirates and it would be still great. You could easily sit them in a post-LOTF era. Or any era. The point of Wraith Squadron is they stir poo poo up with whacky schemes to destabalise enemies. Pirate gangs, warlords etc. can be set pretty much anywhere from 6ABY onwards. They could stick it in Legacy era if they wanted.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:11
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sniper4625 posted:At the time, whose word did we have that the planet was peaceful? Just Leia's - for all audiences knew, she could have been lying and Alderaan could have been a hotbed of dissension, armed to the teeth. In that context, the destruction of the world could have been justified. Nah that'd still be pretty evil.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:11
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Slantedfloors posted:I find the idea the Alderaan had no weapons kind of stupid, what with the clearly armed Security Staff on their clearly armed Blockade Runner. Also, I apologize for not reading the OP carefully enough. I honestly didn't expect this question to be asked very often, and especially not asked seriously.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:15
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DougieC posted:You could easily sit them in a post-LOTF era. Or any era. The point of Wraith Squadron is they stir poo poo up with whacky schemes to destabalise enemies. Pirate gangs, warlords etc. can be set pretty much anywhere from 6ABY onwards. They could stick it in Legacy era if they wanted. I would be kind of amusing to have Wraith Squadron giving running commentary to the poo poo going on in the post-NJO era. "Man that Jacen is a dick." "Seriously, and why is the government so stupid right now. Well at least his sister will bring him down" "You didn't hear? She's off goofing around with some mandalorians" "Mandalorians? Why the hell is she wasting so much of her time with them? What do they have to do with anything?" "I don't know but she's always been a little off. Did you here she lived with a bunch of bugs...and you know...did things" "When did the galaxy get so stupid" It would be like I, Jedi WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 17:17
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^^^ It's like a Rebel Version of "Guy who gets told to get the gently caress out of Thrawn's Office." I miss that guy.Nemesis Of Moles posted:Nah that'd still be pretty evil. Reading the script, Tarkin does ask Leia if she would prefer a different target, specifically, "a military target". So yeah, it's a blatant attack on a civilian target, no doubt about it. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 17:17
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draize_train posted:In the last thread, someone linked to a TFN thread with a ranking of all the EU novels. I've been unable to find it since, does anyone have a link handy? I like rankings. Here be rankings
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Aug 16, 2010 17:30
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Azzmo posted:Here be rankings I really enjoyed SOTME when I read it (I was about 12). Rose-tinted memories? I'm also surprised to see Allegiance in the middle of the Corellian trilogy. I thought it was a good book and I loved the Stormtroopers-go-rogue-but-don't-go-rebel angle.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:40
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Slantedfloors posted:I find the idea the Alderaan had no weapons kind of stupid, what with the clearly armed Security Staff on their clearly armed Blockade Runner. Those could likely be Senate security with rebel sympathies. Leia sends down a call to Captain Antilles from her senatorial offices: "gather a couple hundred men you absolutely trust, we're going on a little trip..."
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Aug 16, 2010 17:50
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arioch posted:Those could likely be Senate security with rebel sympathies. Leia sends down a call to Captain Antilles from her senatorial offices: "gather a couple hundred men you absolutely trust, we're going on a little trip..."
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Aug 16, 2010 17:54
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Slantedfloors posted:So at best, Alderann is totally completely disarmed but it's politicians choose to fly around with an armed militia that has no official governmental ties. Fits well with our FFR theory.
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Aug 16, 2010 17:55
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DougieC posted:I really enjoyed SOTME when I read it (I was about 12). Rose-tinted memories? You're definitely viewing SOTME through rose tinted goggles. It's a very silly story. I also thought that Allegiance was rated too low. Should be a point higher. Same with the Darth Bane books. Overall, though, most of the list makes sense to me.
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Aug 16, 2010 18:09
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Azzmo and me are having a hivemind about star wars
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Aug 16, 2010 18:45
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Allegiance owned but it does suffer from the contractually obligated appearance of Luke & the gang.
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Aug 16, 2010 18:57
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And Vader Googling Luke. Thats the best scene in the book.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:03
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Residency Evil posted:I think I know the answer to this question, but is there ANY way that we'll see episodes 7-9? Or at least a followup set a few years later? I know Lucas has said no, but he does love money a whole lot. The barely-even-conceived episodes 7-9 were compressed into Return of the Jedi, because Lucas was tired of those Star Wars. thrawn527 posted:I'm wondering how long we can get away with this line of conversation before Mad Hamish starts cracking skulls. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up yet. I was even nice to him in the OP.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:35
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sniper4625 posted:^^^ It's like a Rebel Version of "Guy who gets told to get the gently caress out of Thrawn's Office." I miss that guy. haha i don't remember that part of the books, who was that?
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Aug 16, 2010 19:38
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Duckman2008 posted:haha i don't remember that part of the books, who was that? Unfortunately, that's not an actual character, just a running gag around here. He made quite a few appearences in the last thread.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:42
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Duckman2008 posted:haha i don't remember that part of the books, who was that? "Guy Who Tells Thrawn Retarded EU Plotpoints" was just a running gag from the last thread.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:42
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Duckman2008 posted:haha i don't remember that part of the books, who was that? Not in any of the books. They were posts made by Crowetron that were hilarious, in response to the book walk-throughs. Here's some: Crowetron posted:"Grand Admiral Thrawn, we've received a coded Imperial request. It seems your presence is requested at a...'mofference'." Crowetron posted:"Grand Admiral Thrawn, our spies have reported that Han Solo and Leia Organa were spotted entering...uh, well, the Hologram Fun World, sir." Crowetron posted:"Grand Admiral Thrawn, joyous news! You've been invited to the wedding of Princess Leia Organa to our Emperor Trioculus! Well, he's not the only Emperor at the moment, cuz there also this Kadann guy, and he's some sort of crazy magic prophet or something, and he declared himself..." Crowetron posted:"Grand Admiral Thrawn, terrible news! Again, the Empire has lost its leader! Emperor Trioculus was assassinated!" Crowetron posted:"Grand Admiral Thrawn, I have very important news!"
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Aug 16, 2010 19:44
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Everything I've ever heard about the EU makes it seem like an enormous clusterfuck.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:51
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Fnoigy posted:Everything I've ever heard about the EU makes it seem like an enormous clusterfuck. Best part is, those were all from one series of books. (I'm assuming you're referring to Crowetron's quotes I reposted.)
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Aug 16, 2010 19:54
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STARRING RAY ROMANO AS "DENGAR"
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Aug 16, 2010 19:54
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Fnoigy posted:Everything I've ever heard about the EU makes it seem like an enormous clusterfuck. Pretty much. Especially now that George has figured out the the Clone wars = $$$. I think we have like three separate versions of how the Clone wars happened. I think the Dark Horse stories put out are gone due to the show and I would think the old Clone wars show is gone now too due to the TV show.
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Aug 16, 2010 19:55
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Rough Lobster posted:STARRING RAY ROMANO AS "DENGAR" "OOOOHHHH NNOOOO, Boba Fett can't move in NEXT DOOOORRRRR"
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Aug 16, 2010 19:56
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Does Bossk get a spin-off?
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Aug 16, 2010 20:01
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Crowetron posted:Does Bossk get a spin-off? Bossk is played by Kevin James.
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Aug 16, 2010 20:02
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Slantedfloors posted:Bossk is played by Kevin James. I'd watch that. For reals. vvvvv Not even kidding, I'd buy the DvD box set of that. Crowetron fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 16, 2010 |
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Aug 16, 2010 20:03
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Slantedfloors posted:Bossk is played by Kevin James. The hook is he gets one or both his arms pulled out of their sockets by the Wookiee slaves he delivers every week. Also, it's funny because he's fat.
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Aug 16, 2010 20:04
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Throb Robinson posted:Pretty much. Especially now that George has figured out the the Clone wars = $$$. I think we have like three separate versions of how the Clone wars happened. I think the Dark Horse stories put out are gone due to the show and I would think the old Clone wars show is gone now too due to the TV show. So far it's entirely possible to ignore the Clone Wars TV series because all the EU lit around the CWs have already been written, and there's no apparent intention for the era to be revisited any time soon outside tie-in literature (which is fine by me) - they're probably going to wait for the series to pan out before going back in to unfuck things. It's definitely fair to say the canon is in a worse shape than it's been in awhile. Personally I fancy making my own canon which relegates the current animated series, and anything post NJO before Legacy, to apocryphal texts, along with anything else I feel like (I like relegating Dark Empire to a clone trick rather than the actual reincarnated spirit of Palpatine).
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Aug 16, 2010 20:10
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