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Walked
Apr 14, 2003

seigfox posted:

Questions from a guitar buying newbie: When am I going to hit diminishing returns in terms of guitar quality as I move through the price brackets? Would an untrained ear be able to notice the difference between a $2500 Gibson ES-339 and the $500 Epiphone equivalent? Is it worth the extra money for a non-professional? Is that extra $2k just a status symbol?

Right now I'm playing on a starter strat so I'm assuming an improvement in either case, but I have no problems investing the money if it means I'll be able to grow in to a vastly superior instrument. Is it worth it?

I'm very much a beginner. Saying that up front.

I have a Rondo Agile AL-2000.
My friend has a $1300 Gibson Les Paul.

Both feel about the same to me. There is a little to be desired in terms of pickups and the knobs on the agile, but gently caress - for the price difference, I'm glad I got what I did.

But that's just me. From my standpoint, the Rondo is pretty much perfect. Now on the acoustic side I swear to god I'm constantly mind-masturbating the idea of buying a Martin DX1... and it's going to happen for certain next payday.



THAT SAID
I finally started with an instructor, and she's pretty much awesome. Better than any other instructor I've bothered with. I'm a happy man.

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havelock
Jan 20, 2004

IGNORE ME
Soiled Meat
With an electric, you also have to consider what you're playing through. A $2500 guitar is going to sound like garbage through a cheap amp.

I've got an AL-3100 and it sounds pretty good to me through a VOX DA-5 (which is just a little practice thing).

Maybe my ears aren't developed enough to tell the difference, especially on the acoustic side. For example, I've played $500 seagulls/breedloves and I'd be hard pressed to say that a $4k Taylor sounded 8x better. Once you get past a few hundred bucks the playability should be about equal anyway.

Greve
Nov 7, 2007
Theory Genesis
I'm going to make the broad guitar generalization and say you should not spend over $1000 on any gear unless you are performing live gigs. Theres just simply no point in getting expensive gear if you have no place to show it off. Certainly people are going to disagree with me..but those are people with instruments worth over $1000 and are letting their elitism show. Honestly, I'd be amazed if someone couldn't find a playable guitar for $200 if they are patient in looking.

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009
Picking up an Epiphone Standard Plus after work for $325 from some guy. :holy:

Probably just gonna grab a cheap-o Practice amp in the $80 range until I can afford a better amp and a distortion pedal, unless somebody knows a decent pedal to hold me over in the $20-$30 range.

Walked
Apr 14, 2003

TheGopher posted:

Picking up an Epiphone Standard Plus after work for $325 from some guy. :holy:

Probably just gonna grab a cheap-o Practice amp in the $80 range until I can afford a better amp and a distortion pedal, unless somebody knows a decent pedal to hold me over in the $20-$30 range.

I'd just go ahead and spend the extra for the Roland Microcube or Vox DA5. Get some effects, reasonable tone, and all that jazz in one nice portable quality box. Hooray.

CalvinDooglas
Dec 5, 2002

Watch For Fleeing Immigrants

TheGopher posted:

Picking up an Epiphone Standard Plus after work for $325 from some guy. :holy:

Probably just gonna grab a cheap-o Practice amp in the $80 range until I can afford a better amp and a distortion pedal, unless somebody knows a decent pedal to hold me over in the $20-$30 range.

wouldn't even bother spending that little on a pedal

Chip McFuck
Jul 24, 2007

We droppin' like a comet and this Vulcan tried to Spock it/These Martians tried to do it, but knew they couldn't cop it

TheGopher posted:

Picking up an Epiphone Standard Plus after work for $325 from some guy. :holy:

Probably just gonna grab a cheap-o Practice amp in the $80 range until I can afford a better amp and a distortion pedal, unless somebody knows a decent pedal to hold me over in the $20-$30 range.

A sub-$100 amp should be a crime to sell. You will be outgrowing that amp before you can even play your first chord. I am completely serious.

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

Side Effects posted:

A sub-$100 amp should be a crime to sell. You will be outgrowing that amp before you can even play your first chord. I am completely serious.

Seeing how I can already play guitar (lovely, but I can play), this makes me concerned.

The best news is I got a huge raise today and went from independent contractor to salaried, so I'm going to treat myself to a ~$150 amp and worry about the pedal later.

Chip McFuck
Jul 24, 2007

We droppin' like a comet and this Vulcan tried to Spock it/These Martians tried to do it, but knew they couldn't cop it

TheGopher posted:

Seeing how I can already play guitar (lovely, but I can play), this makes me concerned.

The best news is I got a huge raise today and went from independent contractor to salaried, so I'm going to treat myself to a ~$150 amp and worry about the pedal later.

Sub-$100 aren't bad if the person buying it is an absolute beginner or likes to tell people they play guitar while smugly strumming an E chord every couple of years.

You've made a good decision though. Buying an amp in a slightly higher cost bracket ($100~$200) is the best choice in the long run. You will be happier with the tones; it will take pedals better; you will have more experience in what to look for if you decide to upgrade the amp; and it will have a higher resale value if you decide to sell it. With a sub-$100 amp, you couldn't even give that poo poo away.

The Roland Micro-Cube, the Vox DA5, and the Vox VT series amps are what I would recommend for the greatest range of quality tones and onboard effects in the $100~$200 price range.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

CalvinDooglas posted:

wouldn't even bother spending that little on a pedal

Might be able to find a DS-1 at garage sale or something for that much.

Deadpan Science
Sep 6, 2005

by angerbeet
My fingertips hurt :qq:

Walked
Apr 14, 2003

Deadpan Science posted:

My fingertips hurt :qq:

Took me about a week to get past. No big things. Now my finger tips mostly lack feeling!

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

seigfox posted:

Questions from a guitar buying newbie: When am I going to hit diminishing returns in terms of guitar quality as I move through the price brackets? Would an untrained ear be able to notice the difference between a $2500 Gibson ES-339 and the $500 Epiphone equivalent? Is it worth the extra money for a non-professional? Is that extra $2k just a status symbol?

Right now I'm playing on a starter strat so I'm assuming an improvement in either case, but I have no problems investing the money if it means I'll be able to grow in to a vastly superior instrument. Is it worth it?

With Gibson in particular that extra 2k is definitely a status symbol. If the Epiphone feels good run with it, you can always upgrade the electronics and all that jazz. The amp is definitely important though. Every guitar sounds lovely through a lovely amp. I'd upgrade that first if you don't have a decent one already.

Dolphin
Dec 5, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Deadpan Science posted:

My fingertips hurt :qq:
Ease up on the death grip.

CalvinDooglas
Dec 5, 2002

Watch For Fleeing Immigrants

Pocket Billiards posted:

Might be able to find a DS-1 at garage sale or something for that much.

used, all bets are off. I got a used MXR Phase 90 for $50 at Guitar Center last week. Freakin steal.

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

Side Effects posted:

Sub-$100 aren't bad if the person buying it is an absolute beginner or likes to tell people they play guitar while smugly strumming an E chord every couple of years.

You've made a good decision though. Buying an amp in a slightly higher cost bracket ($100~$200) is the best choice in the long run. You will be happier with the tones; it will take pedals better; you will have more experience in what to look for if you decide to upgrade the amp; and it will have a higher resale value if you decide to sell it. With a sub-$100 amp, you couldn't even give that poo poo away.

The Roland Micro-Cube, the Vox DA5, and the Vox VT series amps are what I would recommend for the greatest range of quality tones and onboard effects in the $100~$200 price range.

I picked up the Standard Plus last night, which is in retarded amazing condition for its price (the guy wasn't lying when he said he only played it a few times) and I got a Vox DA20, which Guitar Center was selling the floor model of for $30 off for $120 total.

Oh man, I don't know why I didn't start playing electric sooner.

Incredulous Dylan
Oct 22, 2004

Fun Shoe
I've never played the guitar before. I recently sort of remembered that my ex had given me this Ensenada FG-43 and I had it re-strung (though I've learned to do it myself since) and started strumming around. It was really a bitch to play and learn with because it was so old and lovely, so I sunk a little money last night into a new Martin DXK2AE. I was fooling around with a bunch of different steel string guitars and I just ended up loving that one.

I am reading up on all of this music theory while my first thumb blister goes away from my old lovely guitar, but I can't wait to jump into things with what I am learning!

Walked
Apr 14, 2003

Gauging progress here. Can anyone give me a feel how I'm doing?

2 weeks in, regular practice, started with instructor on Tuesday.

I know:

These chords:
C, E, G, D, A, F-barre chord, Amin
I can play the F up and down the fretboard. Rings clean 90% of the time. But I cant move it/ switch to it without thinking real hard. Standard fare I think.

I know the formula of and can put together a major scale or a harmonic minor if you give me a second to think on it and a root note.

Skills:
I can do the 1-2-3-4 exercise (just do the first four frets of each string and go from string to string ascending and descending) at about 80-90bpm

I am starting to memorize the fretboard. I know where every G is and I'm working through them all.

I can play most simple tunes quickly if you give me a tab. Yankee doodle, saints go marching, amazing grace, etc - not perfect, but can have anything similar 10 90% in under 10minutes.

And I can get a clean V^V strum 75% of the time. I tend to hit the high e too hard and make it ring louder than the rest. Getting that sorted still.

I can quickly (ish) change chord shapes, but doing it in rhythm mid-strum fucks me up. Two hands doing two different things. Working on that.

I know, its ALL MY OWN PROGRESS and not comparable, but I'm trying to gauge how I'm doing. Do I need to really amp up the practice regime at this point? Am I way behind? Or am I about par for the course?

I've been putting in 30min - 3hrs/day depending on schedule.

Taking 1hr/wk on guitar and 30min/wk on theory.

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

Walked posted:

Gauging progress here. Can anyone give me a feel how I'm doing?

2 weeks in, regular practice, started with instructor on Tuesday.

And I can get a clean V^V strum 75% of the time. I tend to hit the high e too hard and make it ring louder than the rest. Getting that sorted still.

I can quickly (ish) change chord shapes, but doing it in rhythm mid-strum fucks me up. Two hands doing two different things. Working on that.

You're doing amazingly well for 2 weeks.

I will say that strumming is the most underrated part of guitar in terms of difficulty, but it's not really something that you can just learn a new technique to help you do better with. It's about playing the guitar more and more and getting comfortable with it. When I first started playing I noticed that every so often something would just "click" for me with strumming, and one day I'd be noticeably better than the day before.

I came from playing Violin and Piano, both classically, and strumming came off to me as a very unnatural way to produce sound. As time has gone on I've gotten more comfortable with the instrument, and I don't have many issues strumming anymore. Granted, I'm not as good as I should be, because I don't practice, but I'm starting lessons soon!

The only piece of advice I can give you is don't be afraid to strum open strings in between chord changes. For example, if you listen to Karma Police, towards the end of the intro, after the B flat minor a D major is played before going back to A minor for the first verse. In between the D to Am chord change, he strums the open bottom 3 strings.

You'll never find these notes written down on any tab/chord list (not sure about the actual sheet music because I've never seen it) as it's one of the cooler parts of the instrument that you have notes you can play to create a continuity of sound in between the actual chords.

El Kabong
Apr 14, 2004
-$10
I'm working through Leavitt's Modern Method for Guitar and I was wondering if it is better to practice just one exercise for 30 mins?

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Walked posted:

I can quickly (ish) change chord shapes, but doing it in rhythm mid-strum fucks me up. Two hands doing two different things. Working on that.

Definitely focus on this, and like The Gopher said, you don't have to play it perfect, you'll be hitting open strings or strings muted by your barring finger to stay in time. Once you get it down, even if its only for basic progressions and rhythm patterns in G, it'll just unlock a whole lot of music you can play along with someone else, a CD or people singing.

Walked
Apr 14, 2003

Chord changing to a metronome will be my focus for the next couple of days then! That and by proxy, improving the tone I get from my up strums.

Thanks guys. Hopefully I can get some of this knocked out with the aid of lots of practice + instructor + determination in the coming weeks. I know it wont be perfect, but once I can play something resembling music I'll be that much more encouraged.

seigfox
Dec 2, 2005

Just an average guy who serves as an average hero.
Story time: I've been learning on an old Yamaha FG-200 and I noticed last week that past the 10th or 11th fret the strings are way above the board and its making me all clumsy. I figured that it just needed to be adjusted, and my teacher agreed so I took it in to a local guitar shop.

The guy takes one look at the guitar and shakes his head and says something like "The neck is all wrong, it's in like this and the only way to fix it is to do this and that to the back of the guitar and even that won't fix it totally" and quotes me $150-$200 to do whatever it is. From his attitude I got the feeling he thought it was a lost cause. I took a look at the neck and it's bent forward almost imperceptibly and this is causing the strings to lift that little bit.

I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to guitar setups, so I'm wondering if it's as big a deal as he made it out to be or not. I can take some pictures of it once I get home; its a very slight (enough that I hadn't even noticed it before) forward bend in the neck, enough to make the strings lift maybe 1/8th of an inch or so at the highest past where you'd want them to be. Is it as bad as he seemed to think?

tl;dr - is a bent neck enough to write off a guitar?

chordate
Feb 27, 2008

by Ozma
I'm guessing you need a truss rod adjustment, which is part of a setup. Average price is $50.

Your high action can be fixed through that and/or a bridge mod, where you just file down the little spaces the strings go in. I wouldn't do either of these by yourself without some experience but if that's the extent of the problem you're being overcharged.

Zakalwe
May 12, 2002

Wanted For:
  • Terrorism
  • Kidnapping
  • Poor Taste
  • Unlawful Carnal Gopher Knowledge
It could be belly bulge which can be fixed with a bridge doctor.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Bridges/JLD_Bridge_Doctor.html

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009
I have a tune-o-matic bridge on my new Les Paul, and the action is way too high (we're talking the bridge cannot go any higher) because the guy I bought it from played acoustic and obviously wanted the action more like an acoustic. I want to lower it, but since I'll probably wind up lowering it a significant amount I'm afraid it's going to throw off the intonation. Since the adjustment screws are under the strings facing the pickups and neck, it's not really easy to adjust while the whole thing is strung.

Is there a trick or a tool that will help me with this whole process, or is this going to be something I have to sink an hour or so into and do it right?

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)

You can just detune wayyyy down on each string until it's pretty much slack, then move it off the saddle a little bit if you're having a hard time. I had no trouble turning the TOM bridge screw while it was at in-tune tension, though. It took surprisingly little effort to turn the screws. The first way is more safe, you won't strip screws (less likely, at least) but it's much more annoying to keep checking the intonation.

I'd say do it right, though. You'll never regret doing something right. Going a shortcut you will, at most, get this feeling: :smug:

Bobulot
May 7, 2007

I'm going to second taking some time and and doing it right. I was adjusting the intonation on a Les Paul tuned up to full tension a few years back when the string broke at the saddle and whipped me across the goddamn forehead. I had a retarded red mark on my face for an entire week.

vty
Nov 8, 2007

oh dott, oh dott!
How did you guys learn to play? Do you just grab all of your favorite tabs and practice speed and go from there?

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003

Area 51. You heard of it, right?





Fallen Rib
I'm entirely self taught. I have asked musician friends for help and played with people to clean up bad habits, but basically I just learned songs by leaning the chords and getting fast as poo poo at transitioning open chords, then I learned barre chords, and then scales to solo. I've played for several years, because I improve in chunks. This summer has been my biggest improvement, I improved drastically by playing with my brother.

I recommend deciding on a skill you want and then practicing the poo poo out of it, for example, learn open chords until you can play them and transition them flawlessly and at speed, then learn barres or scales, etc. Or take lessons - my brother has taken lessons and until this summer he was a significantly better guitarist than me.

Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 4, 2010

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

vty posted:

How did you guys learn to play? Do you just grab all of your favorite tabs and practice speed and go from there?

Pact with Satan.

man thats gross
Sep 4, 2004

vty posted:

How did you guys learn to play? Do you just grab all of your favorite tabs and practice speed and go from there?

This is what I did.

I can tell you my two biggest blind spots from learning this way (and these become HUGE blind spots later on) are music theory (I know chromatic, major, minor, blues, and that's about it) and fretboard knowledge [I've got bottom E and A (and by extension, upper E) up to about the 17th fret down okay, but I'll be god damned if I can remember where I am most of the time anywhere else].

I've got all the open chords, barred major and minor, as well as a handful of other weirder chords memorized as well, but I can't solo or improvise worth a poo poo even though I started playing over ten years ago.

The biggest problem with learning from guitar tabs is that you will figure out a lot on your own (like if you learn to play a C# major in one song, and a C#sus4 in another, and if you know enough (you don't have to know very much at all) to recognize what has changed, you can then apply that same modification to any other chord you know) that won't really ever take the place of a more thorough understanding of music and the guitar.

I don't think any amount of song tabs can really tell you WHY G, Em, C and D sound good together, nor can they really tell you WHY a particular solo contains these particular notes.

They also make it a lot easier to ignore memorizing your fretboard. Say one song goes 1 5 6 13 3 7 4 14 (completely random) on the A string. You can probably learn that pretty easily and there you go, you can play Doo doo doo. The problem is, you could probably learn to play it fast enough to reverse the rotation of the earth and turn back time to save Lois Lane and without ever actually knowing what NOTES you're playing. That's fine if you just want to know how to play Doo doo doo, but that's about all it's good for.

This becomes a huge drawback when you find yourself trying to write your own music. Think about it this way: Who do you think is going to write a more creative arrangement on the guitar, someone who has completely memorized 1000 songs someone else has written, or someone who has completely memorized their fretboard, some intermediate chord theory, and, just to give the man with a thousand songs a fighting chance, a mere 10 different scales?

I'm actually going to be starting guitar lessons this week to fill in these seriously ugly blanks. It's something I should have done 10 years ago.

Chuck_D
Aug 25, 2003

man thats gross posted:

I'm actually going to be starting guitar lessons this week to fill in these seriously ugly blanks. It's something I should have done 10 years ago.

Let me know how it goes since the rest of your post sounds so incredibly similar to my story. I took two lessons about 8-9 years ago but stopped when the stupid poo poo tried to buy pot off me during a lesson. I don't smoke and the whole situation struck me as very awkward.

chordate
Feb 27, 2008

by Ozma

Gewehr 43 posted:

Let me know how it goes since the rest of your post sounds so incredibly similar to my story. I took two lessons about 8-9 years ago but stopped when the stupid poo poo tried to buy pot off me during a lesson. I don't smoke and the whole situation struck me as very awkward.

I'm afraid you'll have to hand in your guitar

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Gewehr 43 posted:

Let me know how it goes since the rest of your post sounds so incredibly similar to my story. I took two lessons about 8-9 years ago but stopped when the stupid poo poo tried to buy pot off me during a lesson. I don't smoke and the whole situation struck me as very awkward.

You must have played the secret 'I'm holding' riff

Migishu
Oct 22, 2005

I'll eat your fucking eyeballs if you're not careful

Grimey Drawer
Because I live in a tiny apartment, I'm looking into getting a 1/4" to USB cable, and using my laptop as a digital amp. My laptop doesn't have audio in (other than mic), but I hear that audio-in suffers from some lag issues.

My question is, can anyone recommend me a decent cable? I don't mind if it's just a cable without software or anything (I'm sure there are plenty of free software solutions available, or at least shareware).

Walked
Apr 14, 2003

Well.

The Martin DX1 I picked up is actually a DX1AE.
Is there any real difference between them aside from the AE having a pickup and can be amped?

Because it sounds loving awesome amped and it makes me happy so long as I didnt sacrifice quality.

The DX1 certainly is nicer than my Rondo AL2000, but that gives me a second guitar to get the AL2000 professionally setup, new strings, and some GFS pickups without having to go guitarless. :D

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


El Kabong posted:

I'm working through Leavitt's Modern Method for Guitar and I was wondering if it is better to practice just one exercise for 30 mins?

I've been working through the same book (I have 1-3 bound together), and I've found that there are some lessons that only take 10 minutes to grasp, and others that take me a few days to get through. Basically, don't worry about moving on until you're comfortable with what you were supposed to be learning in that lesson. I will also occasionally revisit older lessons just to make sure I can still do those exercises well.

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)

The Fool posted:

I've been working through the same book (I have 1-3 bound together), and I've found that there are some lessons that only take 10 minutes to grasp, and others that take me a few days to get through. Basically, don't worry about moving on until you're comfortable with what you were supposed to be learning in that lesson. I will also occasionally revisit older lessons just to make sure I can still do those exercises well.

I find that people underestimate what "comfortable" means in an effort to move on earlier. This doesn't mean when you can play it a like 2 times without messing up. It means, if somebody were to ask you "Hey, can you play ex. no. 19?" you could say "Sure, no problem!" and play it 3 times right in a row. Know it. And DEFINITELY go back to older exercises. Just because you've moved on to other things doesn't mean you can't benefit from more basic exercises. It's humbling to trip up on "easier" stuff.

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gvonpaul
Jan 21, 2005
Goober

Greve posted:

I'm going to make the broad guitar generalization and say you should not spend over $1000 on any gear unless you are performing live gigs. Theres just simply no point in getting expensive gear if you have no place to show it off. Certainly people are going to disagree with me..but those are people with instruments worth over $1000 and are letting their elitism show. Honestly, I'd be amazed if someone couldn't find a playable guitar for $200 if they are patient in looking.

How about people who have extra money and just like having the best quality instruments they can find? I find that people who have cheap gear try to justify it by saying more expensive gear isn't worth it. See? That sword cuts both ways.

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