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Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


All these "spookypasta" folks need to read John Dies at the End, among other things, for a lesson in "how to tell people about a scary experience that you presumably survived."

David Wong posted:

"You mentioned earlier that you got a box on you TV that you play games on? The games where you wander around and shoot people?"

"Well, John's does. He's got six of them, if you count the ones in his closet. A PlayStation and an Xbox and whatever else they sell."

Arnie nodded. "Those names mean nothin' to me. Tell me, you don't find anything weird about it? Don't get a funny feeling when you play on those things?"

I shrugged. "I dunno. Not really."

Arnie said, "The first time I saw one of those game machines was a month ago. And then, everybody had one."

He waited, but I didn't reply.

"I got a nephew," continued Arnie. "Eleven years old. He's all about comics and his remote-controlled cars and Rob Schneider movies. But a few weeks ago I come home and I see him sittin' on the couch, leaning forward like he's entranced. I mean, I never saw concentration like that on a kid's face. Never. And he's got this plastic thing in his hands with buttons on it and he's just hammering away. And I turn to the television and I almost get sick. There's just a gun barrel on the screen, at the bottom, muzzle flash shootin' out the end and people getting ripped to shreds. Sprays of blood everywhere. And I realize, with a feeling like I ate something rotten, that he's controlling the gun. He's sitting there operating a drat killing simulator and his mom comes in and tells him to say hi, that his uncle Arnie is visiting and she glances at the TV like it's nothin', like it's perfectly normal for a kid to do somethin' that used to make new recruits puke back in the war. To look at a human shape - and the people on the screen looked like they were as real as you and me - to look at a human shape and pull that trigger and watch it go down and not even flinch, to not feel that instinctual twinge at causing a death..."

Arnie wiped sweat off his brow.

He said, "I served next to some coldhearted bastards in the war, guys who had that stare, you know, kids from the streets, kids who got beat before bed every night growin' up. And even those guys, those hard characters, they would freeze up the first time they had to pull a trigger with a living thing at the other end."

I said, "Well, they're pretty violent but they're just games-"

"Open your ears, Wong. I'm not tellin' you these games have been around I'm such an old geezer that I never noticed them. These games, the devices that play them, they didn't exist before last month. And now they're everywhere, on every TV set and, hey. ask around and people say they've been common for years and years. I'm a journalist, I travel, I got kids in the family, I know the world. And they didn't sell these game boxes before, I know they didn't because it's insane that they do at all. But I start seeing the shadows move and I get up one day and suddenly every kid is glued to a box that's training him. Tell me it ain't. Millions of them, all over the country, all over the world, millions of kids spending hours and hours getting quicker and quicker on the trigger, getting truer and truer aim and colder and colder inside. That's training. That's conditioning if I ever saw it. And in your world, in this world, this version of reality that played out, nobody finds this strange?"

That's my favorite videogame urban legend bar none. I'm glad I got the chance to post it again after the "Normal People Watch Us Play Games lol" thread.

Incidentally, perhaps having read Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities would have helped you guys see the point of a site called Invisible Games (:smug: but not really because it's an awesome story and everyone should read it).

It's a story of Marco Polo telling Kublai Khan about all these bizarre cities he's passed through, but though he talks about them like they're real places, they seem more like embodiments of a certain mood or character. Finally, the Khan says "I notice, in all your tales, you never mention one city: Venice." That is, we construct the stories we tell ourselves out of reflections of things we have seen, and things we distantly remember, and things we secretly long for.

Also, I remember finding that site a year ago, and thinking it was totally sweet, and I was really sad it hadn't continued, but then I started playing games from cactus and messhof and the like, and they're kinda like the real thing. Scrap Collector? Time Fcuk? Those games freaked my tiny little head.

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Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


xf86enodev posted:

There was supposed to be a 3D-Earthbound for the N64. Does anyone know more about that? Was it actually announced or was it just a rumor?

There was also supposed to be a Final Fantasy 64! I saw pictures of the tech demo and everything!

Instead we got Final Fantasy 7, which is the Sonic 3 to my TheJoker138 (IE, I am the only person who thinks it's bad).

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Awesome troll, bro. Tell us more about your game dev experiences.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Here's my view of "in order" development:

You spend as much time as it takes to make the "core gameplay verbs", the things that the players will spend the most time doing, fun in themselves, even without any context/content. If the players will spend most of their time running and jumping, then the running and jumping must be inherently fun. If they will be in menu-driven fights, then selecting things from the menu and watching the numbers go down must be a pleasant experience. If they will be in conversations, the interface for choosing conversation options and getting responses must be pored over exhaustively.

Shigeru Miyamoto spent ungodly amounts of time tweaking the height, top speed, and acceleration of Mario/Jumpman's jumps. Screeching to a halt on one foot when you reverse directions at speed? The noise blocks make? The way stars hop around? Beautiful.

(This is a semi-disingenuous example, because one of the amazing things about Super Mario Brothers is how well World 1 teaches you how to play, and that clearly took work.)

Once you've done this, you can spend time on creating and arranging the content for the verbs (or more likely making tools for creating said content but whatever), focusing on a solid hook or a solid finish if you like, but the important part is done: the action of the vast majority of the game itself is fun.

That people don't develop in this order is the biggest video game hoax. :smug:

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


As I see it, the message of Braid was the longing and seeking behavior that gets humans to both play games and unlock the secrets of the universe through science. Since the player isn't engaging in a lot of enjoyably violent behavior, they are questing for knowledge, and other people who you never encounter take that knowledge and use it to make bombs that kill people.

Tim starts in darkness, surrounded by fire, then tries to go "back" (to the right) to find out how things came to this, but I think the city around him is beautiful, even compared to the childish impressionism of the paintings in his memory palace. He/You is/are not a bad person for finding all the stars.

Also, I loved the game, but if Jonathan Blow has actually said that he knows what Braid is "really" about, then that is textbook "stupid pretension".

Bleusilences posted:

Because it takes time, thats why.

Making games takes time, but it takes less time if you do it the way I just said. You have a fun product that you can sell much faster. And if you have a AAA budget, you can iterate for a AAA-length development cycle (though you'll be missing a bit of the point, where you can make a game every nine months instead of two years, but whatevs~).

This is not an academic exercise: people make games this way for real. I didn't just invent now as a method (thanks, those who seemed to think I did).

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


...of SCIENCE! posted:

Also the first 90% of MGS2 was a perfectly comprehensible story about a hostage situation on an offshore platform that just happened to hover around GI Joe levels of realism.

Find for me please the Cobra villain that rises to "fat mad bomber on rollerskates" levels of ridiculousness.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


I liked all of it, except at the end when you find out Rose is a real person.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Barudak posted:

I thought it was passably fun. The sequel is better in every single regard

Even writing and acting?

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


pw pw pw posted:

edit: that's kind of a video game hoax, right?

The best kind.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Call of Duty has zombies and gorillas now: the true horror story.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Capsaicin posted:

He said he didn't want any game that portrayed the Nazis as "bad guys" because "I'm sorta like that".

German and well-dressed?

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


JammyLammy posted:

I wish I could see the outraged mail from that gag. I honestly can't understand why someone would be outraged that they read an article by a female then a male. Is it really that big of a problem?

Imagine that you've been enjoying this magazine for a while, when all of a sudden, all of the old articles you liked suddenly become trite nonsense written by people who don't really understand games, and who are trying to push some weird agenda on you! What a bunch of jerks!

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


I'm being derisive and contemptuous, while explaining the (terrible, stupid, illogical) motivations of the letter-writers.

It's a shame you had to ask! Poe's law applied to gamer sexism, I guess.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Obnoxious Brit posted:

I remember there being some talk that the point of the extra Braid ending wasn't actually about the nuke, but some message about obsession.

Yeah, it seems to be about obsession with knowledge and mastery of systems. It's the only thing that would drive someone to find all the stars, and when it's let loose in the real world it has all kinds of unintended consequences, of which the atomic bomb is and always has been a great symbol.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


I guess only he can confirm it, but I'm pretty sure Captain_Indigo's story is supposed to be fiction.

It's decent, though.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Even if I hadn't (I have), I've definitely seen stories structured and paced to be dramatic yet credible before.

There's nothing wrong with presenting a story like it really happened, especially in this thread: people have been doing that repeatedly.

And obviously I could be wrong; maybe the Captain just prefers presenting his painful personal stories like they're tales from the midnight society.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


The original article seems a bit pricey! How convenient. :smuggo:

Since you don't remember it saying anything in particular, it might have been a convincing illusion brought on by coincidence. Or, and I don't know much on the subject, wav files stored on the data track might have somehow approximated the format the cd player was expecting?

Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jul 8, 2011

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Double points for it being a game that features time-travel.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Rocketlex posted:

Something I don't get about things like this. If you really don't want players killing certain NPCs, why give them HP at all? I understand if it's a quirk of your engine that everything must have HP, but why is it so common that this happens in MMOs and other RPG games? I don't know much about coding, but is it really so hard to create a "This has no HP. It is not influenced by attacks" flag?

I'm willing to bet they wanted it to be possible to "kill" the Agents, as long as they immediately respawned and had to be fled from eventually, since that's how they are in the movies.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Semiru posted:

Speaking of "oh my god videogames becoming real" stories, I remember Space Demons being pretty cool, or at least I thought so when I was 10.

Only You Can Save Mankind made me a (slightly) better person as a kid.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


TwoPair posted:

actual game where inexplicably, they didn't fix it.

They didn't fix it because it's not a bug. They just figured out how to add an NPC to a 3d puzzle adventure without needing to make a walking animation sophisticatedexpensive enough to climb stairs and turn around obstacles.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Does anyone else remember reading the David Wong story where he and his friend John play a basketball game for (I believe) the genesis, but they cheat to make their players impossibly good, and then just keep scoring more and more points? All I remember is that the yelling of the crowd keeps getting louder and more distorted, I think the screen starts to get red, and then when the timer runs out the game just turns off. Basically, he knows when to cut it short, unlike so very many of these other authors.

I've been trying to find a link to it for a while, but I think it may have been on his old site. :(

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Dick Burglar posted:

Also known as "adventure game logic."

It's so intentionally obscure and acausal, I'd be more inclined to call it Tower of Druaga Logic. :eng101:

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


LvK posted:

Well, if you want a creepy, true story about Tetris, one of the developers killed his family and then himself, leaving behind a poorly written, cryptic note about the devil.

swamp waste posted:

Just remember that i am exist

Well, that owns.

Everyone stop joking about Tetris stories and actually write some.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


feedmyleg posted:

Didn't see this dicussed anywhere else in the thread, but apparently Silent Hill takes place in the same world as Kindergarten Cop.

I am amazed that even one Japanese person saw Kindergarten Cop.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Rocketlex posted:

Holy hell.

Put a faceless head on that, and that is exactly what I pictured The Princess looking like. Exact same style of dress and everything.

Where does what we imagine come from? :ghost:

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


AnonSpore posted:

She didn't have a head in that video because she was still in the process of manifesting from our collective imagination. It's too late now.

It's cool, if that's where she's coming from, her face will just be a cocky grin and a pair of shades.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


redmercer posted:

Has Skrillex ever played a show in Japan? I bet that name gives native Japanese speakers the shits.

su-ku'ri-le-ku'su

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Levantine posted:

If I were able to do such a thing, I'd write it in a way that the "haunting" stuff would be random.

I can't remember the name, but I remember playing some short indie platformer with an interesting secret gimmick: the first time you ran it, the game would randomly choose one of sixteen "modes" (I think it was based on a hash of your windows username or something), and then consistently launch in that mode every time that you ran it. Each mode changed something slight about one or more of the 'screens' that the game was broken up into. For example, one might remove several bat enemies from a later screen, or rearrange the names of each screen (they got displayed at the bottom of the window a la Jet Set Willy). I distinctly remember that one of them made the first jump over a pit almost impossible

The point of the exercise was for people to start talking about it online, and then get really confused when they hear other people saying "oh, I couldn't get past that part no matter how hard I tried," or "yeah, the solution for that one is to go on the top branch," and other stuff that makes no sense for how the game presented itself to you.

I also remember that I randomly got the "base" game with no weird bits. :(

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


As I remember, the Warcraft 3 beta had a feature where if you played without connecting to battle.net, the starting areas on every map would have invincible level 10 golems that wrecked your poo poo as soon as you began a game.

e: clarity

Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Aug 19, 2012

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Suspicious Dish posted:

No in-game tangible reward will ever live up to it. That's why I don't think games should include one, so that your only drive to 100% is the reward of accomplishment. Including a reward, especially a minimal one, cheapens the feeling.

Opopanax posted:

The problem is, in my experience, once you go to all the tedious trouble of 100%ing a game you tend to have no desire whatsoever to play again

Hence achievements.

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Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


The Orange Mage posted:

Oh wait, I'm in Ohio, those loving Deer/Big Game Hunting units are probably most common. :suicide:

No worries, we got those in The Big City too.

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